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Max Panther
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Posted - 2009.01.19 05:15:00 -
[1]
Hey, so I am sorta on the border of being a new player, I have a month or two of experience, but I feel like a newbie still. I mined my way to having some cash to buy a new ship and I was looking at the Rohk. It is within my budget if I save for another few days and I have the skills to pilot it (Caldari Battleship lvl 3). I was wondering if the Rohk was the right ship for me. I want to get into pvp but im not quite sure which ship will be best for me as I haven't really put much time into pvp being a newbie and all.
Any suggestions on what ship you think would be best for me right now (mind that I have income through mining currently that can pay for something like a rohk (140mil I think) in a few days from now, so please consider that while offering advice. Lastly, if you could offer any reasoning to why that over something else that would be great for me to read though to understand some more about the ship system here.
Thanks.
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.19 05:17:00 -
[2]
90% of eve players lose their first battleship within 24h. 9% of players lose their first battleship within 1 week 0.9% of eve players lose it within the month the other 0.1%? Never bought a battleship.
Stay with a drake for now.
Originally by: Akita T
Seriously ?
...wow... I'm such a forum ho' !
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Max Panther
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Posted - 2009.01.19 05:20:00 -
[3]
With your advice to stay with a drake what is my eventual turning point from that to other ships or are you saying just stick with a drake until I learn some other needed skills such as...?
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.19 05:25:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Max Panther With your advice to stay with a drake what is my eventual turning point from that to other ships or are you saying just stick with a drake until I learn some other needed skills such as...?
Generally yes. A drake is VERY forgiving, if you fit it the standard way,its rather hard to lose.
battleships on the other hand require good capacitor skills, good tanking skills, fitting skills, etc. I would wait until you are about a year in before you really start using battleships. However, thats not needed...I suppose you could use one effectively before that. Still, stick with the drake until you have the skills really. ask your corpmates or in the skills forum for a list of skills that you really need before you should be flying battleships.
Originally by: Akita T
Seriously ?
...wow... I'm such a forum ho' !
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Gneeznow
Minmatar Cruoris Seraphim
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Posted - 2009.01.19 05:25:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Lance Fighter 90% of eve players lose their first battleship within 24h. 9% of players lose their first battleship within 1 week 0.9% of eve players lose it within the month the other 0.1%? Never bought a battleship.
Stay with a drake for now.
my first battleship is still alive, a typhoon that I ran missions in, went to war in and ratted in 0.0 in, in fact it was given to me when I was 6 weeks old and is older than my character, it was used as a gatecamping pwnzor mobile before I was even playing eve
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Jones Bones
Buckeye Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.19 05:27:00 -
[6]
You seem to be suffering from the "bigger is better" mentality that alot us did as noobs. Your solo BS would get eaten alive in PvP, especially since it sounds like you lack the necessary support skills.
Focus on frigate and cruiser combat. Heck, join your local militia and run into the warzone in a Merlin or Kestrel. Get used to getting blown up and blowing stuff up. Fly in fleets and take pointers from those around you who have a bit more experience.
TLDR: Buy a Rokh, come to Heyd, sit in belt. =================== Go Bucks! |
Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.19 05:27:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Gneeznow
Originally by: Lance Fighter 90% of eve players lose their first battleship within 24h. 9% of players lose their first battleship within 1 week 0.9% of eve players lose it within the month the other 0.1%? Never bought a battleship.
Stay with a drake for now.
my first battleship is still alive, a typhoon that I ran missions in, went to war in and ratted in 0.0 in, in fact it was given to me when I was 6 weeks old and is older than my character, it was used as a gatecamping pwnzor mobile before I was even playing eve
fine fine. 90% of eve players lose their first battleship within 24h. 9% of players lose their first battleship within 1 week 0.9% of eve players lose it within the month 0.09% Never bought a battleship. The other 0.01% are the lucky ones that kept it due to sheer luck. Maybe a bit of divine intervention too
Originally by: Akita T
Seriously ?
...wow... I'm such a forum ho' !
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Max Panther
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Posted - 2009.01.19 05:29:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jones Bones You seem to be suffering from the "bigger is better" mentality that alot us did as noobs. Your solo BS would get eaten alive in PvP, especially since it sounds like you lack the necessary support skills.
Focus on frigate and cruiser combat. Heck, join your local militia and run into the warzone in a Merlin or Kestrel. Get used to getting blown up and blowing stuff up. Fly in fleets and take pointers from those around you who have a bit more experience.
TLDR: Buy a Rokh, come to Heyd, sit in belt.
Where is this list of support skills everyone seems to know about other then me? Do you have a list of them?
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DamienV
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.01.19 05:29:00 -
[9]
if you havent pvped yet, do not use a BS.
use frigs/cruisers. Instead of buying 1 rokh, buy like 10 caracals (your gonna need em)
Jumping into a BS right away isnt something you want to do, you will lsoe it and wont do it again. FIrst rule of PvP: Fly what you can afford to lose. for people new to pvp, I generally make it: Fly what you can afford to lose 5 of in 1 day. That way, you can learn from your mistakes instead of banging your head agaisnt the keyboard (it hurts, trust me, and osmetimes you have to buy a new keyboard, which hurts more)
Caracal/Drake are decent pvp boats, if you can train for inties/AF's they are also good.
My first month or so of PvP was basically flying a merlin/kessie and scouting/tackling things in lowsec/0.0, very fun times and you learn a bunch if you are with people who know what they are doing.
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DamienV
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.01.19 05:31:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Max Panther
Originally by: Jones Bones You seem to be suffering from the "bigger is better" mentality that alot us did as noobs. Your solo BS would get eaten alive in PvP, especially since it sounds like you lack the necessary support skills.
Focus on frigate and cruiser combat. Heck, join your local militia and run into the warzone in a Merlin or Kestrel. Get used to getting blown up and blowing stuff up. Fly in fleets and take pointers from those around you who have a bit more experience.
TLDR: Buy a Rokh, come to Heyd, sit in belt.
Where is this list of support skills everyone seems to know about other then me? Do you have a list of them?
Engineering 5 Electronics 5
are the major 2, but you also have the cap skills, and then gunnery/missile skills, and your tanking skills.
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Max Panther
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Posted - 2009.01.19 05:32:00 -
[11]
Originally by: DamienV if you havent pvped yet, do not use a BS.
use frigs/cruisers. Instead of buying 1 rokh, buy like 10 caracals (your gonna need em)
Jumping into a BS right away isnt something you want to do, you will lsoe it and wont do it again. FIrst rule of PvP: Fly what you can afford to lose. for people new to pvp, I generally make it: Fly what you can afford to lose 5 of in 1 day. That way, you can learn from your mistakes instead of banging your head agaisnt the keyboard (it hurts, trust me, and osmetimes you have to buy a new keyboard, which hurts more)
Caracal/Drake are decent pvp boats, if you can train for inties/AF's they are also good.
My first month or so of PvP was basically flying a merlin/kessie and scouting/tackling things in lowsec/0.0, very fun times and you learn a bunch if you are with people who know what they are doing.
Where do I go to pvp, it seems as if theres set areas where you can go chill and just pvp, but I have yet to find these, so far all I have come across are gate campers and random guys just cleaning out rats who shoot at ya. What skills you think would be the ones for drake pvp that I would need to have trained up?
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Peckles
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Posted - 2009.01.19 05:37:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Peckles on 19/01/2009 05:39:58
Originally by: Max Panther Where do I go to pvp, it seems as if theres set areas where you can go chill and just pvp, but I have yet to find these, so far all I have come across are gate campers and random guys just cleaning out rats who shoot at ya. What skills you think would be the ones for drake pvp that I would need to have trained up?
Faction Warfare is designated PvP. All of low sec is PvP. Drakes are for missions and tanking sentry guns. They don't kill other players effectively.
Caldari PvP Solo Success
Pick 3.
Train Amarr or Gallente and never look back.
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DamienV
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.01.19 05:40:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Max Panther
Originally by: DamienV if you havent pvped yet, do not use a BS.
use frigs/cruisers. Instead of buying 1 rokh, buy like 10 caracals (your gonna need em)
Jumping into a BS right away isnt something you want to do, you will lsoe it and wont do it again. FIrst rule of PvP: Fly what you can afford to lose. for people new to pvp, I generally make it: Fly what you can afford to lose 5 of in 1 day. That way, you can learn from your mistakes instead of banging your head agaisnt the keyboard (it hurts, trust me, and osmetimes you have to buy a new keyboard, which hurts more)
Caracal/Drake are decent pvp boats, if you can train for inties/AF's they are also good.
My first month or so of PvP was basically flying a merlin/kessie and scouting/tackling things in lowsec/0.0, very fun times and you learn a bunch if you are with people who know what they are doing.
Where do I go to pvp, it seems as if theres set areas where you can go chill and just pvp, but I have yet to find these, so far all I have come across are gate campers and random guys just cleaning out rats who shoot at ya. What skills you think would be the ones for drake pvp that I would need to have trained up?
before you go PvP I would find a corp that is noob friendly and PvP's, going solo and getting killed a bunch doesnt help tooooo much.
Low sec: IE .4 and below systems are probably where you want to start. There are some downsides though. If you decide to attack anybody, you will lose security status, which means if it goes low enough, you cannot go into high sec. If you stick to only shooting pirates you will die many times. (pirates are usually going to be flying heavily tanked ships and will generally have a year or more experience on you)
0.0: I would stay away from it for a little bit. It is much harsher out here and can get very annoying, but can also be some of the most fun to be had.
What I would do is join one of the militias and do FW for a little bit, stockpile some cash so you dont have to rat/mine and can focus on PvP and then have fun. If you end up really needing cash you can drop out of the corp and mine/rat again.
For a drake-BC 4 is almost a must, it helps sooo much. Engineering 5 and electronics 5 helps
your missile support skills to 4 your shield skills to 4
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DamienV
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.01.19 05:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Peckles Edited by: Peckles on 19/01/2009 05:39:58
Originally by: Max Panther Where do I go to pvp, it seems as if theres set areas where you can go chill and just pvp, but I have yet to find these, so far all I have come across are gate campers and random guys just cleaning out rats who shoot at ya. What skills you think would be the ones for drake pvp that I would need to have trained up?
Faction Warfare is designated PvP. All of low sec is PvP. Drakes are for missions and tanking sentry guns. They don't kill other players effectively.
Caldari PvP Solo Success
Pick 3.
Train Amarr or Gallente and never look back.
also, dont listen to this guy about training amarr/gallente
if you like caldari stick with them, you can crosstrain later when you want to. Caldari ships are great in gangs, they are not the best solo, but some can. As I said before though, I do not think you should solo at this point, stick with groups and caldari are great.
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Major Deviant
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Posted - 2009.01.19 06:45:00 -
[15]
When I was in your shoes I stayed with the Drake for a while. I have never trained for a ny racial battleship and I run level 4s quite easily with it. True, you could run them much faster in an other ship, but I do not run missions very often so I am fine with it.
If you intend to make missions your future full time employment in Eve, plan for a bs along the lines, but I insist that you stick with the drake now. As for pvp, go over to the faction warfare statistics (sticky on the forum), and see which is the most effective ship in fw pvp (most kills). Yap the drake.
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DjLowballer
Amarr FLASHTROOPER CORP
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Posted - 2009.01.19 07:16:00 -
[16]
Happy to be in the .09% group. Dude forget Battleships. Frigs are the way to go. Dirt cheap(even the tech2 ones are not bank busters), fast and fun piloting, and since most of the good builds on them are tight you get good motivation for training support skills.
Ive played this char a little over a year and I am not planning on BS until around august of this year. But when I do...oh it shall be fun. Please Vote DjLowballer as your delegate to the CSM! |
Sader Rykane
Amarr Midnight Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.01.19 08:00:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lance Fighter 90% of eve players lose their first battleship within 24h. 9% of players lose their first battleship within 1 week 0.9% of eve players lose it within the month the other 0.1%? Never bought a battleship.
Stay with a drake for now.
My first (and only) battleship is 3 months old. And still alive and kicking. Not to mention its one of the most difficult Battleships to fly skillwise (Abaddon). |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.
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Posted - 2009.01.19 08:22:00 -
[18]
Best way to get into PvP in EVE is by joining a corp that does PvP. That's all.
FW? Solo? That's the hard routes. FW is cluttered with idiots (it's true, not just throwing garbage here). If you are interested in FW I recommend joining a corp that is in FW. Solo? Then you should be looking at low sec, preferably an alt hauling to you or an active low sec market. t1 frigs/cruisers and jump around in belts, learn to scan etc, look at the pirate sticky guide in Crime and Punishment.
I'm sure you'll hear this over and over and over, but "don't fly what you can't afford to lose". You're talking about buying a battleship that you can't even afford (yet). You're already doing wrong there. The guy that told you to buy 10 Caracals is alot closer to the reality. I'd go even further and buy something you can afford 20-30 of. But then again, if you join a corp you might just get those ships cheaper, with suggestions for fittings, with suggestions for skills, and the experience to boot.
Join a corp that does PvP, you seems genuinely interested in it, and you can't buy experience. That's the best route to go. |
NoNah
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Posted - 2009.01.19 09:03:00 -
[19]
Ironicly, I have to disagree after being proved wrong, multiple times.
If you're going to pvp, I wouldn't get any kind of battleship if you even have to consider asking about it. Simply because isk tends to be a tightspot for anyone active with his pvp.
If you're going to mine, I'd get the Rokh right away. It's the second best base-mineral miner out there, and it's way easier on skills than the best.
If you're goign to toy with PvE I would read up on it, and get a Raven. Rokh is fine, but a tad more skillintensive. Think - don't go by battleclinic setups or setups posted here. It's quite possible to run level 4 missions with less than a months worth of skills and the most important one will be Drones 5, which is vital for most things you do in EVE really. Engineering, Electronics, Cap skills, shield skills are all important, but you can compensate for the lack of them with quite some ease. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 675072
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PsychoBones Jr
THE INTERNET.
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Posted - 2009.01.19 09:27:00 -
[20]
Listen to Lance and Damien. They know their ****.
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Psiri
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Posted - 2009.01.19 11:47:00 -
[21]
You don't want to PvP with a Battleship, maybe in six months when your skils have matured. I suggest that you stick to frigates, interceptors, destoyers, cruisers and T1 fitted BC's until you've got more money. Most PvP these days in low-sec seems to be Assault Frigates, BC's, Force Recons (like the Falcon and Curse) and the occasional HACs.
Caldari gun-boats are almost exclusively good for sniping, I've seen a few blaster Rokh fits but I wouldn't recommend them. If blasters are your thing then train up Mechanic skills and Gallente.
Training missiles is also an option, but atm only the HAM drake really shines in PvP with them. Las0rz is probably the best thing and if you haven't invested alot of points into hybrids and shield skills then I'd crosstrain Amarr instead. Great looking boats, good for missions and PvP and they shoot frikkin' laz0rbeams! |
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.19 11:51:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lance Fighter 90% of eve players lose their first battleship within 24h. 9% of players lose their first battleship within 1 week 0.9% of eve players lose it within the month the other 0.1%? Never bought a battleship.
Stay with a drake for now.
heh, I had my first BS for like 4 months before it was nuked in 0.0 :P, and by that time I had several other ships here and there ;) |
The Tzar
Malicious Intentions The Church.
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Posted - 2009.01.19 13:22:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Max Panther
Where is this list of support skills everyone seems to know about other then me? Do you have a list of them?
The market was the best place for me to learn the various support skills or prerequisites as they're called in Quantum Rise.
Next time when you're not mission running spend some time looking at the modules you might fit on your new ship.
The Rokh is a shield tanking rail/blaster (hybrid) platform. You can tell this from the bonus' described on the ship information tab. So to get the most out of a Rokh you will need to fit T2 shield boosters/extenders/hardeners (all the info on these is available through the market) and then also the T2 large rails or blasters (rails if you're using it for PvE).
I would imagine once you have trained the skills needed for these modules your total SP will be somewhere in the region of 12-15M. This is the bare minimum in reality. Before this point you will get more out of a battlecruiser or cruiser tbh. __________________________________________
'Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear intelligent until they speak' __________________________________________ |
Lokaas
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Posted - 2009.02.04 20:38:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Lokaas on 04/02/2009 20:39:15 Go here for skill roadmap. Will help.
http://www.kylania.com/eve/skills.php
You can use a battleship any ole time. However, you should know when and how to use a battleship. That's the rub. A battleship is not going to be as maneuverable hence can get held down easy and should be able to tank damage well. The rokh in particular is for long range and gets bonuses for heavy guns for that. It's Caldari so you need to have all your sheild skills up. You should have drone skills up so your drones can attack frigates that your guns won't hit. If anything gets too close you won't do as much damage if target is moving too fast. Battlecruisers and cruisers are more maneuverable hence more adaptable in close quarters combat which is most of the time. A battleship is going to be better as the heavy hitting finisher in a gang battle.
ALSO, DO NOT FLY WHAT YOU CAN'T REPLACE VERY EASILY OR YOU ARE GOING TO BE BACK TO SQUARE ONE AND THE FUN FACTOR HITS ZERO. |
Xercodo
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Posted - 2009.02.07 06:32:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lance Fighter
Originally by: Gneeznow
Originally by: Lance Fighter 90% of eve players lose their first battleship within 24h. 9% of players lose their first battleship within 1 week 0.9% of eve players lose it within the month the other 0.1%? Never bought a battleship.
Stay with a drake for now.
my first battleship is still alive, a typhoon that I ran missions in, went to war in and ratted in 0.0 in, in fact it was given to me when I was 6 weeks old and is older than my character, it was used as a gatecamping pwnzor mobile before I was even playing eve
fine fine. 90% of eve players lose their first battleship within 24h. 9% of players lose their first battleship within 1 week 0.9% of eve players lose it within the month 0.09% Never bought a battleship. The other 0.01% are the lucky ones that kept it due to sheer luck. Maybe a bit of divine intervention too
i still have may apoc and i got it in mid Jan and i started in Nov of 08.....i know when to run and know to always to keep a stash of hull reppers in my cargo in case my armor breaks :P
still...like the OP...i want my abby...and my friend is slowly working his way to a hyper :P
but we wont lose ours...weve been PVE-ing....hopefully by the time Apocrypha comes out ill have a AF and cover it in T2 modules >:)
(my current punisher is only few days from there already :P) |
Leiara Knight
Gallente The Oblivion Guard
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Posted - 2009.02.07 06:48:00 -
[26]
I like ships. |
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.07 16:24:00 -
[27]
Originally by: The Tzar
I would imagine once you have trained the skills needed for these modules your total SP will be somewhere in the region of 12-15M. This is the bare minimum in reality. Before this point you will get more out of a battlecruiser or cruiser tbh.
Don't listen to people like this. While I would agree that flying a tech TWO ship without the ability to fit it with all tech II mods is a bad idea, there is certainly nothing wrong with fitting a ship with tech I modules.
Oh and even if you did train up a full tech II fit, I ran a quick evemon check and it'd total at about 4 million SP to train tech II large rails, a full tech II tank, both capacitor skills to V, gunnery skills to IV or V (Surgical strike V really isn't worth it IMO) and battleship IV.
People who tell you that you need tech II everything and 10mil+ SP before you get into a battleship are elitists who've long since forgotten what it's like not to have 50million skillpoints. That being said, I'd not suggest the rokh as someone's first battleship, because the job it's best suited for (sniping) actually is a fairly SP intensive route to pvp. In pve, the raven just mops the floor with it so badly (as does the gallente megathron if you really want to use railguns) that there's no reason to use a rokh.
My personal recommendation is this: Get a tech II tank and both capacitor skills to IV before jumping into a battleship. It won't take more then a couple weeks, and the payoff is huge for the time invested. Use the BS in PVE for a while to get the hang of using it, then bring it out to pvp WITH FRIENDS! (can't stress this enough, solo pvp is hard enough with 20-30million SP, as a new player it's damn near impossible), and ideally these friends should be somewhat experienced in pvp so that they can guide you in the right direction after you make an ass of yourself :P |
Normin Bates
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Posted - 2009.02.07 17:16:00 -
[28]
It's better to fly a Cruiser well than a Battleship poorly.
Also: Never risk your mission/ratting ship in PvP. It's your ISK machine. |
Levistus Junior
Caldari The Perfect Storm Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.02.07 17:49:00 -
[29]
I'd have to echo other people's advice: don;t buy a battleship just yet. Apart from being pretty expensive for a newer player, these ships are not very forgiving skill-wise (player skill that is). If you get a battleship in the wrong type of situation, chances of getting it out are really low. Anything smaller will be able to outrun you and tackle you well before you can warp off.
To start off PVP my advice would be to get a few cheap cruisers(Moa/Caracal depending if you are skilled in hybrids or missiles) with t1 fits (so that you lose 1-2 mil at most when it pops) and then join a low-sec/0.0 PVP corp. If you get lucky you will get to fly with some more experienced PVPers that will explain you most of the basics of PVP.
As for people telling you to cross-train: don't listen to them just yet. You may very well want to cross-train at some point, but you should do that after you understand how this game really works at PVP level, what you like to fly and what are the pros and cons of each race, not because some guy from the forums tells you that race x is better than race y.
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Mortuus
Minmatar Fat J Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.02.07 20:14:00 -
[30]
Don't buy a BS this early, your skills probably aren't anywhere near getting the full potential out of that Drake.
Use the Drake to make isk, practice combat in Frigates and Cruisers if you want to PvP. Pick a ship for PvP, and get as good as you can with it before moving to the next one.
I have 62mil SP, and its all in sub capital ships, in fact I just finished Med Arty spec to 5 (AC was already done). To get good results out of a BS you are looking at 10-15mil SP mark. Then again, with missiles and shield focus only, you could probably manage at 5-8mil. Still for PvP, keep with things you can AFFORD to lose.
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