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Iece Quaan
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Posted - 2004.07.29 18:48:00 -
[91]
I really can't believe that nobody has suggested this before: just add to the game a battleship-sized web. 25k range and reduces speed by 150-200%. Effective range of a frigate is dictated by the maximum range of a warp scrambler; in all other cases, you can just run. Max range of a scrambler is 20k. Problem solved.
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Iece Quaan
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Posted - 2004.07.29 18:48:00 -
[92]
I really can't believe that nobody has suggested this before: just add to the game a battleship-sized web. 25k range and reduces speed by 150-200%. Effective range of a frigate is dictated by the maximum range of a warp scrambler; in all other cases, you can just run. Max range of a scrambler is 20k. Problem solved.
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Mark A
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Posted - 2004.07.29 18:52:00 -
[93]
I think the balance is fine as-is. Avoiding the shield/cap/sig nerf of an MWD by using an oversized AB is offset by it using way more powergrid, cutting down on guns and defensive mods.
If this is going to be "fixed" (and surely CCP has better things to do than fix things no-one thinks need fixing) I'd suggest reducing the MWD nerfs from 25% to 15%, which will keep fast cruisers as a viable option.
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Mark A
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Posted - 2004.07.29 18:52:00 -
[94]
I think the balance is fine as-is. Avoiding the shield/cap/sig nerf of an MWD by using an oversized AB is offset by it using way more powergrid, cutting down on guns and defensive mods.
If this is going to be "fixed" (and surely CCP has better things to do than fix things no-one thinks need fixing) I'd suggest reducing the MWD nerfs from 25% to 15%, which will keep fast cruisers as a viable option.
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Buddy Bruehller
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Posted - 2004.07.29 18:53:00 -
[95]
 Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Originally by: Buddy Bruehller
The main question becomes what happens to industrial ships?
They have the grid of a frigate but the mass of a cruiser.
Are they now prohibited from using anything but low slots to improve speed?
Anyone have any of the hard numbers?
Someone was saying Mammoths on chaos have a 400 powergrid now.....
Ah ok, well that should be interesting. Looks like indies would then be able to kit out for some more tanking then as well. Should be interesting.
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Buddy Bruehller
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Posted - 2004.07.29 18:53:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Originally by: Buddy Bruehller
The main question becomes what happens to industrial ships?
They have the grid of a frigate but the mass of a cruiser.
Are they now prohibited from using anything but low slots to improve speed?
Anyone have any of the hard numbers?
Someone was saying Mammoths on chaos have a 400 powergrid now.....
Ah ok, well that should be interesting. Looks like indies would then be able to kit out for some more tanking then as well. Should be interesting.
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Gan Howorth
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Posted - 2004.07.29 19:59:00 -
[97]
AND STOP
Grid has been multiplied by 4 for haulers/cruisers. So has the grid requirement for haulers/cruiser sized modules. So before you **** your pants over this 400 grid try to understand that your med/large shield booster, med armour repairers blah blah, will take 4 times as much grid. An example has already been given above: 200MW tech 2 10mn AB.
Please TomB, at the end of the day l dont care about the ceptor issue. Just do what others suggest and only allow size classed modules to fit their respective classes. This telephone number grid farce is going to cause problems, bet yer.
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Gan Howorth
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Posted - 2004.07.29 19:59:00 -
[98]
AND STOP
Grid has been multiplied by 4 for haulers/cruisers. So has the grid requirement for haulers/cruiser sized modules. So before you **** your pants over this 400 grid try to understand that your med/large shield booster, med armour repairers blah blah, will take 4 times as much grid. An example has already been given above: 200MW tech 2 10mn AB.
Please TomB, at the end of the day l dont care about the ceptor issue. Just do what others suggest and only allow size classed modules to fit their respective classes. This telephone number grid farce is going to cause problems, bet yer.
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Gan Howorth
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Posted - 2004.07.29 20:14:00 -
[99]
Chaos checked...
Well it looks like only the MWD and AB modules have had their grid requirements changed... e.g weapons havent changed, pmsl. So erm...what's going on? 
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Gan Howorth
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Posted - 2004.07.29 20:14:00 -
[100]
Chaos checked...
Well it looks like only the MWD and AB modules have had their grid requirements changed... e.g weapons havent changed, pmsl. So erm...what's going on?
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Jorlin
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Posted - 2004.07.29 21:02:00 -
[101]
when the changes to MWD/sig radius where discussed, i told you to keep oversized AB in mind (can't find the the thread now...).
don't get me wrong, i love to use those oversized modules...but i always knew they were not designed to work that way.
but don't take away the possibility to fit AT LEAST two 10MN ABs on an Indy. they are NOT oversized for this kind of ship and definately needed to get anywhere (even in empire space).
changes to the power needs/power grid will result in major problems if not done right....but you should (and will) know that better than me.
no police, no summons, no courts of law;
no proper procedure, no rules of war;
no mitigating circumstance;
no lawyers fees, no second chance! |
Jorlin
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Posted - 2004.07.29 21:02:00 -
[102]
when the changes to MWD/sig radius where discussed, i told you to keep oversized AB in mind (can't find the the thread now...).
don't get me wrong, i love to use those oversized modules...but i always knew they were not designed to work that way.
but don't take away the possibility to fit AT LEAST two 10MN ABs on an Indy. they are NOT oversized for this kind of ship and definately needed to get anywhere (even in empire space).
changes to the power needs/power grid will result in major problems if not done right....but you should (and will) know that better than me.
no police, no summons, no courts of law;
no proper procedure, no rules of war;
no mitigating circumstance;
no lawyers fees, no second chance! |
rowbin hod
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Posted - 2004.07.29 21:30:00 -
[103]
can we have a poll on this please, like the one there is about local chat channels?
There really should be a poll if ccp really are interested in subscriber opinions.
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"Due to the European lard shortage, we are currently unable to supply this product." |
rowbin hod
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Posted - 2004.07.29 21:30:00 -
[104]
can we have a poll on this please, like the one there is about local chat channels?
There really should be a poll if ccp really are interested in subscriber opinions.
---
"Due to the European lard shortage, we are currently unable to supply this product." |
Selim
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Posted - 2004.07.29 22:16:00 -
[105]
Trust me, the ONLY change that needs to be done is take away bigger ABs from ships for this thing. You shouldnt take away things like big armor plates for ships.
Another thing. If this change goes through, you HAVE to make afterburners worth a damn in combat. And please, take away the MWD sig radius penalty IN LIEU OF a penalty that makes sence, like reducing agility by a large factor or using more cap.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.07.29 22:16:00 -
[106]
Trust me, the ONLY change that needs to be done is take away bigger ABs from ships for this thing. You shouldnt take away things like big armor plates for ships.
Another thing. If this change goes through, you HAVE to make afterburners worth a damn in combat. And please, take away the MWD sig radius penalty IN LIEU OF a penalty that makes sence, like reducing agility by a large factor or using more cap.
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Pandora Panda
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Posted - 2004.07.29 22:57:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Pandora Panda on 29/07/2004 22:58:41
These changes sound interesting, and I'd love to be able to comment on them. Only problem is, Entropy & Chaos seem to be missing more than half my skillpoints - I cant even use the majority of the weapons and ships being altered.
So I guess I can just comment with what I know from the live server - 10mn AB and 1mn MWD both had seperate but equally important roles. Removing the 10mn AB will not change frigate-on-frigate combat much at all, but will strongly dissuade people from taking interceptors into fleet combat.
I dont see the reason for this change alone, and I cant test and see how the changes work as a whole.
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CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Pandora Panda
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Posted - 2004.07.29 22:57:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Pandora Panda on 29/07/2004 22:58:41
These changes sound interesting, and I'd love to be able to comment on them. Only problem is, Entropy & Chaos seem to be missing more than half my skillpoints - I cant even use the majority of the weapons and ships being altered.
So I guess I can just comment with what I know from the live server - 10mn AB and 1mn MWD both had seperate but equally important roles. Removing the 10mn AB will not change frigate-on-frigate combat much at all, but will strongly dissuade people from taking interceptors into fleet combat.
I dont see the reason for this change alone, and I cant test and see how the changes work as a whole.
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CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
GenocidalSpliff
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Posted - 2004.07.29 23:16:00 -
[109]
I dont like this idea, there are much more serious problems with the game. And adding a 10mn ab to a frig limits it a great deal as to what you can do with it.
P.S.
I couldnt help but notice you mentioned powergrid, class size and balance in the same post. In light of me spotting this (yes i have a keen eye), id like to say this one word: Dominix.
If you want to balance things, how about giving the fat ugly shoe some love, so it doesnt have to fit frigate sized guns in order to be able to tank 2 Serprentis Smugglers. Or is it only me that has to use Cruiser Classarmor reps in order to fit any decent weapons, or fit Cruiser Class weapons in order to fit Battleship Classed armor reps?
(First person to mention shield tanking and dominix gets a cow bite, not a cookie.)
2004.08.22 21:03:00 combat Your Anode Light Neutron Particle Cannon I perfectly strikes callonious [BSC], wrecking for 236.9 damage. |
GenocidalSpliff
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Posted - 2004.07.29 23:16:00 -
[110]
I dont like this idea, there are much more serious problems with the game. And adding a 10mn ab to a frig limits it a great deal as to what you can do with it.
P.S.
I couldnt help but notice you mentioned powergrid, class size and balance in the same post. In light of me spotting this (yes i have a keen eye), id like to say this one word: Dominix.
If you want to balance things, how about giving the fat ugly shoe some love, so it doesnt have to fit frigate sized guns in order to be able to tank 2 Serprentis Smugglers. Or is it only me that has to use Cruiser Classarmor reps in order to fit any decent weapons, or fit Cruiser Class weapons in order to fit Battleship Classed armor reps?
(First person to mention shield tanking and dominix gets a cow bite, not a cookie.)
2004.08.22 21:03:00 combat Your Anode Light Neutron Particle Cannon I perfectly strikes callonious [BSC], wrecking for 236.9 damage. |
Exarch
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Posted - 2004.07.30 00:26:00 -
[111]
The only way to run blockades right now in a frig is to use a 10mn AB. MWD are suicide, you get insta locked and killed in 1 hit. 1mn AB do not give enough power to get through a blackade, even several of them. At least bump the power of AB's up to +50%, or knock down the penalty to mwd. Frigs are completely useless.
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Exarch
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Posted - 2004.07.30 00:26:00 -
[112]
The only way to run blockades right now in a frig is to use a 10mn AB. MWD are suicide, you get insta locked and killed in 1 hit. 1mn AB do not give enough power to get through a blackade, even several of them. At least bump the power of AB's up to +50%, or knock down the penalty to mwd. Frigs are completely useless.
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Minyon
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Posted - 2004.07.30 01:25:00 -
[113]
Why are you trying to kill off frigates in combat. Going fast is the only thing thay have going for them. How do you think thay have "invulnerability" when there are so many counter measures to kill a frigate that piolts just dont use as much as thay should. shuch as Energy Neutralizers, Nosferatu, Stasis Webifier, Drones, smart bombs and just fiting small guns. If you stop frigate from being fast and HARDER to kill and not invulnerable as thay are now you will fill off frigate combat so that only n00bs and pirates use them for the locking times but thay could just use a blackbird whit Sensor Boosters on as no ones will be flying frigates.
And if you think its too easy to kill NPCs in a frigate did you try to do so? whit good skills its just as dangerous as useing a cruiser you die very fast when things go wrong yes you can kill 110k rats but only whit good skills.
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Minyon
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Posted - 2004.07.30 01:25:00 -
[114]
Why are you trying to kill off frigates in combat. Going fast is the only thing thay have going for them. How do you think thay have "invulnerability" when there are so many counter measures to kill a frigate that piolts just dont use as much as thay should. shuch as Energy Neutralizers, Nosferatu, Stasis Webifier, Drones, smart bombs and just fiting small guns. If you stop frigate from being fast and HARDER to kill and not invulnerable as thay are now you will fill off frigate combat so that only n00bs and pirates use them for the locking times but thay could just use a blackbird whit Sensor Boosters on as no ones will be flying frigates.
And if you think its too easy to kill NPCs in a frigate did you try to do so? whit good skills its just as dangerous as useing a cruiser you die very fast when things go wrong yes you can kill 110k rats but only whit good skills.
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Roko
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Posted - 2004.07.30 01:48:00 -
[115]
The game design was not intended for ships to mount + class-sized modules. Throws everything out of wack, as they are trying to balance with class sized mods in mind. Besides it sucks the RP lemon till it's dry and crusty.
Make your game CCP.
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croc-o bananes
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Roko
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Posted - 2004.07.30 01:48:00 -
[116]
The game design was not intended for ships to mount + class-sized modules. Throws everything out of wack, as they are trying to balance with class sized mods in mind. Besides it sucks the RP lemon till it's dry and crusty.
Make your game CCP.
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croc-o bananes
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.07.30 02:43:00 -
[117]
The MWDs are working fine, its just that the penalty doesnt make any logical sense. 
its just the 1mn afteburners that need love. I think they should give a 300% boost to speed, with multiple of them just adding 300% of the base speed, not 300% of base x 3.
Same with MWDs.
So... lets say a ship has 100m/s speed. An afterburner should give it 300% boost, to 300m/s. A second afterburner should boost that to 600m/s. Obviously they'll need to use more cap...
And a MWD should be the same way, with some more penalties so they are not practical to use in dogfights, while the correct size afterburners ARE.
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Selim
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Posted - 2004.07.30 02:43:00 -
[118]
The MWDs are working fine, its just that the penalty doesnt make any logical sense.
its just the 1mn afteburners that need love. I think they should give a 300% boost to speed, with multiple of them just adding 300% of the base speed, not 300% of base x 3.
Same with MWDs.
So... lets say a ship has 100m/s speed. An afterburner should give it 300% boost, to 300m/s. A second afterburner should boost that to 600m/s. Obviously they'll need to use more cap...
And a MWD should be the same way, with some more penalties so they are not practical to use in dogfights, while the correct size afterburners ARE.
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Felsin
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Posted - 2004.07.30 07:22:00 -
[119]
Using a 10mn Afterburner on a frigate does not by any means make you invul. Infact the Ab is so hard to fit you lose out on 2 low slots in a kestrel just to fit it. It then only brings you over 1km so how is this invul? Web me and im dead.
Now for cruisers I see your point. But doing this across all ship classes is uncalled for an just a quick fix.
I suggest you just make a negative bonus if using a oversided mod maybe to cap usage that would bring the ab in line with mwd in cape usage on frigs yet you sacrafice the 2 low slots for no loss of shield and less sig radious.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Dillinger4/Felsin.jpg |
Felsin
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Posted - 2004.07.30 07:22:00 -
[120]
Using a 10mn Afterburner on a frigate does not by any means make you invul. Infact the Ab is so hard to fit you lose out on 2 low slots in a kestrel just to fit it. It then only brings you over 1km so how is this invul? Web me and im dead.
Now for cruisers I see your point. But doing this across all ship classes is uncalled for an just a quick fix.
I suggest you just make a negative bonus if using a oversided mod maybe to cap usage that would bring the ab in line with mwd in cape usage on frigs yet you sacrafice the 2 low slots for no loss of shield and less sig radious.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Dillinger4/Felsin.jpg |
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