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Callas
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Posted - 2003.06.18 17:12:00 -
[1]
I'm sick to death of searching for factory slots.
Do you know, CCP, how utterly enervating it is to travel from station, to station, to station, to station - and in every single station every single slot is rented?
Rented, rented, rented.
Why are they all rented? because the rents are low because they're a long way from core systems.
Demand would by any measure appear to be high, since every slot is rented. Why then are rents still only about 10,000 ISK and static?
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Callas
Edited by: Callas on 18/06/2003 17:13:12
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Wache Eisen
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Posted - 2003.06.18 17:44:00 -
[2]
Man,.just last night I found several staions with publicly available slots, entire stations that havent been rented at all.
They're out there,..just gotta travel some
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Callas
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Posted - 2003.06.18 18:03:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
Man,.just last night I found several staions with publicly available slots, entire stations that havent been rented at all.
They're out there,..just gotta travel some
I have *no* idea where you are in the galaxy, how far away you are from me.
I've been through at least half a dozen stations now, which is about 100 slots. All taken. How far do I have to keep looking? how many stations do I have to dock with? THIS IS NOT VIABLE.
Morevoer, I do *not* accept the notion of travelling 30+ hops to get to a slot, ESPECIALLY not in an industrial ship.
What were the rents on the slots you found? my impression is the really expensive slots (60k plus) are being vacated and *not* being filled, which is absolutely no use to anyone.
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Callas
Edited by: Callas on 18/06/2003 18:08:59 |
Darkannis
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Posted - 2003.06.18 18:09:00 -
[4]
We found it very useful.
Picked up slots in The Forge @ 67k.
Dead handy.
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Callas
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Posted - 2003.06.18 18:11:00 -
[5]
Quote:
We found it very useful.
Picked up slots in The Forge @ 67k.
What do you manuf. with the slots?
Do you see yourself or your corp releasing those slots in the future because of the rent at is it now?
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Callas
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Perceptor
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Posted - 2003.06.18 18:12:00 -
[6]
"I've been through at least half a dozen stations now"
Wow.. 6 stations. Your looking really hard.
Thats what 1 maybe 2 jumps.
Leave noob space and move into something other than 1.0 space and you will find stations.
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Shintai
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Posted - 2003.06.18 18:15:00 -
[7]
0.0sec space here. 4 stations with fabs/labs. Nothing free. And noone cept us around. slot houders came by the systems one day. all gone. And since you dont keep getting billed. Then you wont see a release.
Also the usual office from corporations you haven¦t seen ever. and you been there youself with the corp. for 3 weeks.
Edited by: Shintai on 18/06/2003 18:23:17
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Darkannis
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Posted - 2003.06.18 18:17:00 -
[8]
yup - making ammo/missiles then releasing them.
Only need them to make local stocks for hunting.
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Darkannis
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Posted - 2003.06.18 18:25:00 -
[9]
Releasing them isnt exactly easy anyway - factories, labs or offices.
A simple "Cancel Rent" option would go a long way - instead we get billed for empty hangars we dont use - silly.
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Shivash
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Posted - 2003.06.18 18:27:00 -
[10]
Personally I think the whole rental system needs revising. When you rent a slot you should have to tie a BP to that slot. The BP won't get ejected at cycle end ( production just stops ) but you have 10 mins ( say ) to either equip a BP or swap BP's. After that the rental is nullified and it becomes free.
Perhaps where a corporation has an office you can have a few slots ( dependant on corp size ) rented but maybe limit corps to having offices at no more than say 2, or maybe 3, factory units.
This should freeup the unused but rented slots and give new corps a reasonable chance in the future. I'm certain there are slots out there - but for example having to deepspace to find them when your a race factionalist ( for example ) is awkward as your out of empire trips will be rare and you'll definatly live in empire space.
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smokeruk
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Posted - 2003.06.18 18:36:00 -
[11]
quote
Man,.just last night I found several staions with publicly available slots, entire stations that havent been rented at all.
They're out there,..just gotta travel some
this guys in a dreamworld all on is own
yea these ppl who have loads and trying to sell them at 1mil each they absolutly the worst player out there even worse then moo
maybe a timer could resolve this issue if the slots not in use its free for anybody to use ,timer say lasts 2 hours depending on production i mean it wont be used constantly would it
wish ccp would increase available offices at station aswell they want us to branch out into 0.0 security space well let us atleast setup office nearby not 10 jumps to mine and then another 10 jumps to corp hanger
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Shintai
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Posted - 2003.06.18 18:40:00 -
[12]
Maybe limit office amount to CEO skill. Would be good btw. Like 1 office per lvl of the small skills.
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Darkannis
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Posted - 2003.06.18 18:43:00 -
[13]
Folks might want to remember that there is need for a PC market for selling station services.
If everything is catered for by cheap NPC stations then... why build one?
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Ulf Ulfsson
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Posted - 2003.06.18 18:56:00 -
[14]
"I've been through at least half a dozen stations now, which is about 100 slots. All taken. How far do I have to keep looking? how many stations do I have to dock with? THIS IS NOT VIABLE."
6 stations? Jeez - I combed that many REGIONS looking for choice spots from which I could jump off - I've rented 4 in the last 2 days (2 for me 2 held for a friend) and seen a LOT more in places that weren't so good for me. I'm down in London this weekend - I think I'm going to look through six streets in the City and complain because there are no skyscrapers for me to rent..... {sigh}
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Takeshi
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Posted - 2003.06.18 19:41:00 -
[15]
This needs a solution NOW. There are many people who might like to try this game out. And there are many people who do like tradeskilling. If I were a newb looking to pursue that sort of career, I would probably quit within a week in frustration. And there is no solution except to make it unlimited. It has been shown time and time again in this game that if there are limited amounts of a valuable resource in this game, it will quickly be all bought up within a day, and sold at ridiculous prices. We are talking about infrastructure here, not luxury, and infrastructure by definition needs to be available to all.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.06.18 19:51:00 -
[16]
Well I¦ve done more than 150 jumps and I¦ve found 6 factory slots, no lab-slots. Quite annoying IMO.
Time for CCP to add an option to the agents so they can tell you the next free station with lab/fac slots. Or whatever else. Maybe a function for the map so it shows you how many slots are available in the systems.
I find it kind of irritating. We¦re in the year... is it 7000??... and I¦m cruising through the universe docking at each and every station just to see if they have available slots? I mean cmon...
Something needs to be done about this, and it doesn¦t necessarily involve raising the prices. I think there should also be another rule for the slots. When you don¦t use a slot for more than 2 weeks it should automatically become free again. No point in letting the people rent slots they don¦t use at all, it just annoys the new scientists and manufacturers and doesn¦t do good for anyone at all.
Mai's Idealog |
Xandax
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Posted - 2003.06.18 19:57:00 -
[17]
I fear the game would loose more then it gains by allowing for "unlimited" slots at any given station.
Firstly this would mean that everybody can produce anywhere and remove any strategical effect from being set up in one region. For instance corporation.
This would also lead to an elimination of any needs of logistic. All that needs trasportation are some BPs and any corp. can be selfsufficient in all regions of space, and this would make little need for any kind of selling between corps.
Another mean, in my oppinion, need to be taken to "allow" people access to factory slots - making such a valurable resocurce unlimited would in my oppinion equal making ore unlitmited.
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Vis Consili Expers Mole Ruit Sua. |
Takeshi
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Posted - 2003.06.18 20:05:00 -
[18]
You do realize that all of those rented slots are owned by a very small amount of people right? You do realize that several of them no longer play the game right? (but somehow they still own the slots, could it be because you never ever get charged rent on a slot beyond the initial purchase? *shock*) And I do mean very few. And comparing it to unlimited ore is ridiculous. A slot by itself makes absolutely no money. Noone can afford to make all the items in the game, its impossible from a resource as well as time standpoint. So the logistics will work themselves out over time.
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Xandax
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Posted - 2003.06.18 20:10:00 -
[19]
I didn't say actions shouldn't be taken (or vice versa), but I fail to see the logic behind making unlimited slots available.
Other then promoting selfsufficiency for any corp that wishes so, anywhere in the universe of EVE.
And it isn't a matter of making _all_ items, it is a matter of makin what items you want anywhere you want it.
Edited by: Xandax on 18/06/2003 20:11:01
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Vis Consili Expers Mole Ruit Sua. |
Callas
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Posted - 2003.06.18 20:17:00 -
[20]
Quote:
"I've been through at least half a dozen stations now"
Wow.. 6 stations. Your looking really hard.
Thats what 1 maybe 2 jumps.
Leave noob space and move into something other than 1.0 space and you will find stations.
I've been through about two dozen systems.
Generally I've been in one station every other system, because there aren't many stations and fewer still which which have the factory service.
I'm way out in nowhere, as I stated in the original post.
--
Callas
Edited by: Callas on 18/06/2003 20:33:21
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Callas
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Posted - 2003.06.18 20:18:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Maybe limit office amount to CEO skill. Would be good btw. Like 1 office per lvl of the small skills.
I concur.
All of these limited resources MUST have use limits on a per player basis.
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Callas
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Muaddid
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Posted - 2003.06.18 20:18:00 -
[22]
simple, every 3 days, slots that havent been used (even if the bill has been payed) gets un-rent, where there's more demand for slots the usage check is done daily at maintenance.. simple but would fix the problem
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
Callas
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Posted - 2003.06.18 20:20:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Quote:
I've been through at least half a dozen stations now, which is about 100 slots. All taken. How far do I have to keep looking? how many stations do I have to dock with? THIS IS NOT VIABLE.
6 stations? Jeez - I combed that many REGIONS looking for choice spots from which I could jump off - I've rented 4 in the last 2 days (2 for me 2 held for a friend) and seen a LOT more in places that weren't so good for me.
My opinion is that I shouldn't have to search whole *regions* to find slots.
I shouldn't need to search continously as I am to find slots.
I'm now about eight jumps from the base system I want to use, and I've found no slots in any station inside that range.
I'm sick of searching, and I'm already displeased with the amount of commute I'm got just to get to a slot when/if I *do* find a slot.
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Callas
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Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.06.18 20:30:00 -
[24]
6 stations or 6 systems which doesn't matter, congratulation to you *hard* work to find a factory.
shrug.
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Takeshi
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Posted - 2003.06.18 20:30:00 -
[25]
Why shouldn't corporations be allowed to set up shop wherever they like? Thats the way it works in real life. You can find office space or land to rent in any city in the world. RL businesses do it all the time, they move to where the demand for their given product is. Maybe if they could, there would be actual competition in the market. Prices never change anymore, whole regions are monopolized by single corporations. Its just stagnant atm.
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Callas
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Posted - 2003.06.18 20:35:00 -
[26]
Quote:
6 stations or 6 systems which doesn't matter, congratulation to you *hard* work to find a factory.
shrug.
I'm in *nowhere*...and of the 100 or so slots I've seen, ALL are rented.
How hard I'm working to find a slot is actually irrelevent here - in concentrating on that, you are completely missing the real issue.
Moreover, even of this lesser issue - I should not have to search like this for a slot. It's crazy. It's like wanting to buy robotics on the market, but the SD map not telling me which stations have supply in.
Moreover, the reason I'm so annoyed is because I am sure, from the results of searching so far, that I will search for some time like this and still find nothing - searching for something that does not exist is futile.
--
Callas
Edited by: Callas on 18/06/2003 20:36:36
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Xandax
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Posted - 2003.06.18 20:39:00 -
[27]
quoted
Why shouldn't corporations be allowed to set up shop wherever they like? Thats the way it works in real life. You can find office space or land to rent in any city in the world. RL businesses do it all the time
Ehhh - they only do so if they can find space.
Many areas have zoning rules and local plans that prohibit or restrict what can be build, and if nothing can be build and all space is rented - what you think that happens?
Real life buisnessmen speculate in land/buildings just as well as some speculate in goods and stocks.
Limited space is infact a real world restriction, nowhere in the real world would you have any kind of unlimited resource, and production facility is a rescource.
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Vis Consili Expers Mole Ruit Sua. |
Takeshi
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Posted - 2003.06.18 20:45:00 -
[28]
I won't argue details with you. The point I think we are both in agreement with though is that the current system is broken. I don't know the perfect solution, I am a server admin, not an economist. But I don't forsee the solutions CCP has proposed recently really solving the issue. The biggest problem I see, is that many corps that started on the first day have virtually unlimited amounts of money. And can buy up all the slots to eliminate competition. And now with all the changes, it would take a year or more to make the amount of working capital needed for a new corporation to compete in this area.
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Nibarlan
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Posted - 2003.06.18 21:22:00 -
[29]
go here
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=9863
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In space no one can hear you scream...unless you scream on the radio, then everybody on that channel can hear you...but only if your in a ship, because they wouldn't hear you if you were in space and screamed into the radio
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Vultan
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Posted - 2003.06.18 22:01:00 -
[30]
IĘm sure there is something being done about slot rentals. The problem is that any good fix will have major consequences/side effects that then need to be addressed. ItĘs a snowball effect, and since CCP wants to do minimal programming on any one issue as possible (and I mean that they have so many issues to address that they want to rush a fix so they can address another issue) we wonĘt get a good fix.
What we will get is the fix to rentals being charged every 3 days. They will get that up and running, which with the increase in rental prices, should drive a bunch of people to dump the rentals. In addition, anyone who can't afford the rental will lose it.
Then they will begin to drop the price of rentals to bring back customers. Note that it sounds like this is in the game already, a supply and demand solution I think was implemented which is why prices went up recently.
This will be a working fix though I donĘt think it will truly solve the problem. Hard to say till it gets going, it may be good enough. Also, it may not be a fast fix so hold on, and it may be very bumpy for a while.
Xandax, unlimited slots can work fine. You just have to have the correct method of implantation for it to work. In this case a queue system and unlimited slots would work just fine. See my post: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=7779
for more details, though I it would take more than what I put down in that post to make it work well (snowball effect again).
In the end the reason why things are ōbrokeö is that CCP modeled the mining/refining aspects of the games economy off of semi-real world models for commodities. They then assumed, or so it seems to me, that those models would hold true to manufacturing, which they donĘt. And thus you have a problem. |
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