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Izo Alabaster
Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company
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Posted - 2009.01.23 05:41:00 -
[1]
A lot of people don't like the local chat, mostly because it lists every single person in local, friend or foe, which both makes it impossible to hide and also ruins the element of surprise. It destroys our immersion in the game. One of the main gripes against removing local that I've heard is that sometimes you need to be able to find other people's ships out in space for one reason or another.
Here's my suggestion on how to implement a more balanced and immersive system:
1. Make local only show people who have spoken recently. Make it this way in all systems, not just lowsec/0.0.
2. Implement a ship transponder which always broadcasts who's piloting the ship - basically a system that prevents people from renaming their ship. Make the pilot's transponder signal also show up on the onboard ship scanner. This is basically negating the tactical advantage that renaming your ship offers.
3. Make the transponder a toggle, where people can turn it off in lowsec and 0.0, but disabling it causes a global criminal countdown, so it's only a good idea to do so when cruising through hostile lowsec/0.0 territory.
4. Make it so you can right click on the person's transponder signal in the ship scanner window to bring up their info, or some other way to quickly check if they're hostile.
Problem solved? People can still locate wartargets and see who's out and about around them using the onboard ship scanner, but they can't take a quick glance at the local channel and find out how many enemies there are in the system. Local chat is no longer a useful intelligence gathering tool.
The onboard ship scanner might need a bit of tweaking, to make it have an auto-refresh or something, because clicking the button every 2 seconds would get old. Aside from that, I like my system a lot better. It's much more conducive to PVP, it gives cloaky ships a more realistic edge, since you can't tell if one's about simply by looking in local.
-Izo
 Originally by: CCP Nozh
Are BS useless in solo combat?
The larger ship still has many benefits:
* Can fit smaller weapons to fend off smaller targets
* More slots allow EW counter measures
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DrDooma
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Posted - 2009.01.23 11:32:00 -
[2]
This is my unfavorite topic.
Any system that you implement has to work for all of EVE and not just 0.0
With this in mind, I just wish to confirm - your suggestion is to remove local and replace with another method that will do the same thing only in a much more complex way. Will this new way still give you enough time to get safe when you mining or ratting? (point 2 and 4)
If not, i would also like to bring back warp to 15km rather then 0. After all, its all about getting kills right?
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taekwandokid
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.01.23 13:53:00 -
[3]
people complain about anything... local is fine... how can you have anything against it?
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Mia Sin
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.23 14:25:00 -
[4]
Originally by: taekwandokid
people complain about anything... local is fine... how can you have anything against it?
Since my lowsec experience is limited to getting blown up during a lousy L1 courir mission to lowsec (40k reward....) on pretty much my first day I can't really comment on balance implications.
That said, from an ingame perspective (hello immersion) it makes little sense that a scout in a cloaked ship or a pirate would intentionally join the local starsystems chitchat and expose their presence.
I like the OPs idea and can't see why anyone would be opposed to it. (I don't claim there are no reasons, I just can't see any. Enlighten me if you think otherwise ) |
taekwandokid
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.01.23 14:38:00 -
[5]
jump into a system and have no clue whose in it... awesome
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MrWendell
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Posted - 2009.01.23 14:58:00 -
[6]
So you basically could have a 500 ship fleet sitting completely invisible to everything. Nice idea.. I can't think of a single reason that this would completely suck 
Surely if you want to spring a trap on enemies just sit on the other side of a gate with a cloaked scout?
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Alaris Nightshadow
Otakus Society
Revolution Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.23 19:28:00 -
[7]
Why not just set local to Delayed, like Alliance chat is, you only show up if you say something? |
Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Excessive Force
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Posted - 2009.01.24 00:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Alaris Nightshadow
Why not just set local to Delayed, like Alliance chat is, you only show up if you say something?
It's called "Recent Speakers", and it is by far the simplest solution to Local being used for Intel purposes.
If someone is in your system, spying on you, they won't be chatting a lot to tell you about it.
So why would you know the name and faces of everyone in your system?
All this other stuff, about transponders and whatever...
tl;dr
But I will say, don't overcomplicate things in search of a solution.
Problem: Knowing there's a spy among you.
Solution: Don't show every single person in the system.
Some spies might tell the phone company to keep their number unlisted?
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Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word.
"Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.01.24 00:44:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Alaris Nightshadow
Why not just set local to Delayed, like Alliance chat is, you only show up if you say something?
Yes, I think it is the best solution, suggested it too somewhere else.
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Izo Alabaster
Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company
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Posted - 2009.01.24 11:10:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Alaris Nightshadow
Why not just set local to Delayed, like Alliance chat is, you only show up if you say something?
Setting local to delayed like alliance chat doesn't work for everyone, only in 0.0, where you can enter an enemy's space and assume every single ship you see is hostile. In empire warfare, you have to find specific pilots and weed them out from the neutrals. The only realistic way to do so without a local channel showing everyone in the system is to lay down a scan probe grid, and probe out every single ship in the entire system (which could potentially be hundreds). It's just asking too much. It would kill off empire warfare and merc corps like REPO, ABP, etc., which is in my opinion one of the neatest things in EVE. My idea with the transponder doo-dad is supposed to alleviate the unnecessary burden of having to do that (unnecessary scan probe grid to check every single ship on scan), by allowing you to check your scanner (a device that's supposed to show other ships), and see what other ships and pilots are actually about, within its scan range.
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Are BS useless in solo combat?
The larger ship still has many benefits:
* Can fit smaller weapons to fend off smaller targets
* More slots allow EW counter measures
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Izo Alabaster
Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company
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Posted - 2009.01.24 11:21:00 -
[11]
Originally by: DrDooma
This is my unfavorite topic.
Any system that you implement has to work for all of EVE and not just 0.0
Will this new way still give you enough time to get safe when you mining or ratting? (point 2 and 4)
I spend my time engaged in highsec warfare. It's what I do. My interests are not in positively affecting 0.0 warfare for myself/my alliance/my epeen, but offering a good solution to what I view as one of EVE's problems.
My proposed system would actually require people to *gasp* pay attention to avoid getting into an unwanted fight. It puts you on equal footing with anyone else around by effectively limiting your knowledge of your surroundings to what you can see on the overview, and what you can see on the scanner within 14-point-whatever AUs.
Whether a miner/ratter is able to make it to safety is dependent on the miner/ratter. If they're paying attention, and see a hostile ship on scan, they have a good chance of escaping to safety. If they're not paying attention, they are more likely to get attacked. It's not about increasing the frequency of PVP, but rather increasing the frequency of engagements for people who choose to be inattentive while playing, and making EVE a more fair and immersive game.
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Are BS useless in solo combat?
The larger ship still has many benefits:
* Can fit smaller weapons to fend off smaller targets
* More slots allow EW counter measures
|
Izo Alabaster
Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company
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Posted - 2009.01.24 11:23:00 -
[12]
Originally by: taekwandokid
jump into a system and have no clue whose in it... awesome
You didn't actually read my post, did you? I proposed a method to know exactly who's in the system, but not with 100% accuracy; limiting your knowledge to who's within scan range.
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Are BS useless in solo combat?
The larger ship still has many benefits:
* Can fit smaller weapons to fend off smaller targets
* More slots allow EW counter measures
|
Izo Alabaster
Friendly Neighbourhood Extortion Company
|
Posted - 2009.01.24 11:32:00 -
[13]
Originally by: MrWendell
So you basically could have a 500 ship fleet sitting completely invisible to everything. Nice idea.. I can't think of a single reason that this would completely suck
Surely if you want to spring a trap on enemies just sit on the other side of a gate with a cloaked scout?
Yes, according to my proposed method, you could have 500 ships sitting cloaked at a safe spot, or 60 AUs off the standard solar system's plane and you'd be nearly impossible to detect. This would allow for some very interesting surprise attacks in 0.0, rather than having an alt able to report with 100% accuracy about every single pilot that comes through a funnel system, you would actually have to apply some effort to find out what your opponents were up to, and they would have to do the same to know what you were doing.
Imho, 0.0 warfare is a bit too static anyway, and relies mostly on who can amass the most numbers and largest ships. My idea might shake things up a bit, by allowing one smaller, but more dedicated side to engage in guerrilla warfare against a larger group.
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Are BS useless in solo combat?
The larger ship still has many benefits:
* Can fit smaller weapons to fend off smaller targets
* More slots allow EW counter measures
|
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2009.01.24 12:44:00 -
[14]
are you folks aware that this is an issue created by the Goons ?
in the past, local did not show standings of players (i.e. blue, red etc.) so it was very difficult to spot enemies in a busy system. then Goons started using a hack similar to Bacon that displayed this status for them. instead of fixing this issue, CCP thought it is a handy one and they implemented it in the actual client.
welcome to the mess we have today. sure, local would still show who is in system, but you'd need to manualy check them against your own standing and this takes time. which gives the intruders and option to get away or to strik quickly ... |
Kaya Divine
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.24 13:17:00 -
[15]
Local should be removed.
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Hamoycal Karyst
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Posted - 2009.01.24 15:48:00 -
[16]
Local is good, but if CCP will remove it, then we MUST get a GOOD scanner (actual scanner is a crap).
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