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Gierling
Gallente Viper Squad
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Posted - 2009.01.23 19:32:00 -
[1]
It's kind of patently obvious that destroyers are the redheaded stepchild of the light craft category.
They need a boost to make them viable, I think its time we seriously look at removing the 25% ROF penalty. Or at the very least making the 10 bonus to optimal AND Falloff.
Of those two which do you think will work the best, do you have other suggestions.
I really don't think thier durability needs to be substantially increased as that would just turn them into halfway cruisers. They have a role as portable damage dealers (glass cannons) and as pickets to destroy tacklers going after more valuable ships. If we got rid of the ROF penalty they would remain just as vulnerable to larger ships however they would become a pretty damn valid way to swat away tacklers short of a Hictor.
They also need to be boosted to a warp speed closer to frigates then cruisers.
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Gierling
Gallente Viper Squad
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Posted - 2009.01.23 19:36:00 -
[2]
whoops this was suppossed to be in Ships and Mods.
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Gierling
Gallente Viper Squad
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Posted - 2009.01.24 00:02:00 -
[3]
Destroyers do the antifrigate role adaquetely but really not well enough to counterbalance their severe vulnerability to all ships (including frigates)
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Gierling
Gallente Viper Squad
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Posted - 2009.01.24 00:29:00 -
[4]
As it is Destroyers are substantially slower then Frigates, get much less bonus from speed mods (Which is perhaps appropriate but it isn't uncommon to see cruisers going faster then destroyers and with a lot less effort too), cost about as much to kit well as larger and/or more expensive ships. (buying 8 125 II's at a time starts to hurt after a while), get hit for full damage by cruiser guns, have marginally more hitpoints then frigs, have substantially more signature, warp at the same speed as cruisers (which makes people turn up their noses when you bring one to a frig gang). Have barely enough grid to fit their own guns and any sort of fit, have neither the capacitor nor the slots for any form of versatility and some of their bonus' don't make any sense (Catalyst really doesn't benefit as greatly from the range bonus as the cormorant does).
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Gierling
Gallente Viper Squad
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Posted - 2009.01.24 01:03:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Armoured C so many give it a bonus like assult frigates ?
OH No, I want a bonus that actually works.
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Gierling
Gallente Viper Squad
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Posted - 2009.01.24 19:50:00 -
[6]
Ok lets break this down to a more useful discussion with component parts.
Its not that destroyers don't have any use (They are actually the ship I have the most kills in), its that their use and purpose is esoteric, poorly defined and poorly served.
Components of the discussion:
A: Warp speed, I think this is the least controversial. Right now bringing a destroyer in a frig gang slows the whole gang down as much as a cruiser. Their warp speed should be between that of a cruiser and a frig. (4.5-5 au/s)
B: They have a nerf which mitigates and exacerbates one of their main strengths and weaknesses, in the ROF penalty. Their main strength being their large amount of weapons, which are functionally reduced by a quarter. The problem is that even though your getting only 3/4 the dps of the guns your fitting your still paying full price for the fit. Dropping the ROF Penalty probably wouldn't be too unbalancing and would probably fix destroyers on its own. However if you dropped it and looked into their agility/armor/slots you could bring their weapons down to say 6 and cut the cost of fitting one substantially.
C: Slot layout, they are some of the least versatile ships in the game. Gank is all they really can do. They simply don't have the slots to support anything beyond a basic fitting and guns. If they eliminated 2 highs (and the ROF Penalty) it would probably be pretty reasonable to give an extra mid to the Coercer and Catalyst, and an extra low to the Thrasher and Cormorant.
D: Fitting, Even if you can find something you want to do with one your still paying full fitting cost for functionally 3/4 of the guns. Its looking like getting rid of two guns and the ROF Penalty would be a panacea, but this could also be solved by a 25% reduction to small guns powergrid use.
E: Agility and Durability, this is skewed in an unhealthy way. They aren't particularly agile but they arent particularly durable either. These values need to be balanced between the biggest frigs and the smallest cruisers. Currently thier agility and sig is closer to cruisers and thier hitpoints are closer to frigs.
F: Capacitor, they have a lot of power draw from their weapons, and again your paying full price for 3/4 of the effect. They have a hard time running thier guns and anything else. Again it looks like getting rid of two turrets and the ROF penalty would solve a lot of problems here.
G: Lack of diversity. Its time for tier 2 destroyers, give the Caldari a proper little missille spammer and the Gallente a drone boat...
H: Expense, a million isk hull and 8 1.5 million isk guns with little survivability does get old after a while. Again hislot removal and losing the ROF penalty solves this problem.
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Gierling
Gallente Viper Squad
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Posted - 2009.01.24 20:33:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Max Hardcase F) is not true, cap use would remain the same roughly.
Its more desirable to have a more consistent lower cap drain over time then it is to have high bursts of cap use, with the way the cap equation works its very easy to shoot past your peak recharge and run yourself low in a destroyer. So the same cap use over time would still be preferable if it wasn't so damn peaky. |
Gierling
Gallente Viper Squad
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Posted - 2009.01.25 18:37:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Psiri
Originally by: Gierling : A: Warp speed, I think this is the least controversial. Right now bringing a destroyer in a frig gang slows the whole gang down as much as a cruiser. Their warp speed should be between that of a cruiser and a frig. (4.5-5 au/s)
H: Expense, a million isk hull and 8 1.5 million isk guns with little survivability does get old after a while. Again hislot removal and losing the ROF penalty solves this problem.
I personally think that Destroyers are fine, they are frequently fielded in all types of roles such as mission running, salvaging and PvP. However, the above concerns I find to be valid (although minor).
They are a bit too costly (rememberyou already have to fit 8 guns) and I can't see any good reason for why they shouldn't be allowed to roam as quickly as frigates.
Yeah I figure warp speed is the least we can ask for, and the guns thing is silly, get rid of the penalty get rid of a quarter of the guns and you've lowered the cost of flying the damn ship considerably without actually changing it. |
Gierling
Gallente Viper Squad
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Posted - 2009.01.26 17:05:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Doctor Mabuse
Originally by: Gierling
Yeah I figure warp speed is the least we can ask for, and the guns thing is silly, get rid of the penalty get rid of a quarter of the guns and you've lowered the cost of flying the damn ship considerably without actually changing it.
Except you lose its alpha strike which makes certain dessies so much fun.
When your opponent is put deep into armour with your first volley, they start to think more about getting out of the situation than they do about fighting back.
The Thrasher being really fun is NOT an argument against boosting Dessies in General. Its well acknowledged that the Thrasher is the best of the bunch. |
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