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Universal Market? (instead of Regional one)

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Dani SP Rupture Farms Mining	Posted - 2009.01.23 20:52:00 - [1] Im wondering What would be the consequences if people could check the whole universe prices instead of getting the region limits. I presume three ones: - Jita losing some important activity. - More accurate/shaped prices and smaller margins. - overall Eve Online inflation being smaller.
SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2009.01.23 21:04:00 - [2] Edited by: SencneS on 23/01/2009 21:04:22 Originally by: Dani SP What would be the consequences if people could check the whole universe prices instead of getting the region limits. You mean like here?
ingenting 20th Legion Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.23 21:08:00 - [3] topic have been discussed so many times. please use eve-search.com
Kwint Sommer Caldari XERCORE	Posted - 2009.01.23 21:40:00 - [4] The most important consequence would be the database lagging which is why it will never happen. Do you remember how it use to hang for a few seconds when you'd try to view something like shuttles in the forge? Well, imagine that except much worse and for every item, all the time, everywhere. Also, sort by cheapest would become meaningless unless you restricted it to basically your region which is self defeating. If it is even possible to do, and I don't know that it is, it would require purchasing a lot of new and expensive equipment (we're talking millions) and require devs currently working on reducing PVP lag to be diverted to this in mass. It wouldn't just be a waste of money and time, it would set back their efforts to improve much more important things, namely lag.
Servilia	Posted - 2009.01.23 22:05:00 - [5] It would also ruin the entire trading via hauling profession. Plenty of people make their isk by hauling tons of stuff to far flung regions and putting the screws to hapless buyers.
720	Posted - 2009.01.23 22:17:00 - [6] - Jita losing some important activity. I think this is unlikely since there is always a tendency toward trade hubs, both in games and in RL. Think financial trade centers (London, NY, Tokyo) around the world to regional manufacturing hubs. - More accurate/shaped prices and smaller margins. A price is by definition accurate if someone is willing to sell/buy for that price (barring accidents). Even when the market is being manipulated buyers will either wait or agree to pay the premium for not having to wait and in any case the market falls back to a balance and more goods are brought online. - overall Eve Online inflation being smaller. In game inflation is easily managed by CCP intervention. The fact that there is so little intervention indicates that inflation is at a manageable level
Kwint Sommer Caldari XERCORE	Posted - 2009.01.23 22:21:00 - [7] Originally by: 720 In game inflation is easily managed by CCP intervention. The fact that there is so little intervention indicates that inflation is at a manageable level That or it indicates CCP is incompetent or simply doesn't care. I personally choose to live in your happy world where inflation doesn't exist. Sure, every once in a while I notice the steady rise in trit, T2 and faction prices but I prefer to live in your world.
720	Posted - 2009.01.23 22:42:00 - [8] Originally by: Kwint Sommer That or it indicates CCP is incompetent or simply doesn't care. I personally choose to live in your happy world where inflation doesn't exist. Sure, every once in a while I notice the steady rise in trit, T2 and faction prices but I prefer to live in your world. I not sure where you think I stated that there is no inflation, I simply stated that it was manageable (as in, not 1000%). In any case citing specific items doesn't demonstrate overall inflation, otherwise I could simply note the drop in the prices of MWD and nanofiber.
Kwint Sommer Caldari XERCORE	Posted - 2009.01.23 23:31:00 - [9] Originally by: 720 Originally by: Kwint Sommer That or it indicates CCP is incompetent or simply doesn't care. I personally choose to live in your happy world where inflation doesn't exist. Sure, every once in a while I notice the steady rise in trit, T2 and faction prices but I prefer to live in your world. I not sure where you think I stated that there is no inflation, I simply stated that it was manageable (as in, not 1000%). In any case citing specific items doesn't demonstrate overall inflation, otherwise I could simply note the drop in the prices of MWD and nanofiber. Yes, my apologies, citing two broad categories (T2 and faction) plus the most highly used component in a third (trit in T1) is obviously not speaking in broad terms.
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.01.24 02:57:00 - [10] Market prices have nothing to do with inflation. Inflation is directly related to new cash flow into the system. Goverments printing money. In the case of EvE: bounties, mission rewards, insurance...and I think that's it. Could be a couple more. But what you are basically saying is dissolve regional views of the market. I think it would suck. There's already barely enough in the game to create differences between industrials/traders. Taking away one of the few ways to be different would hurt the game. --------------------
ResearchBunny Beatrix	Posted - 2009.01.24 06:30:00 - [11] Edited by: ResearchBunny Beatrix on 24/01/2009 06:35:41 Originally by: Kwint Sommer The most important consequence would be the database lagging which is why it will never happen. The most important consequence would be universally efficient markets, which would totally ruin margin trading and region trading as professions. You'd spawn vast opportunities for a UPS/FedEx style delivery industry though.. They'd also have to recode the market to accept arbitrary filters, like "show everything within N jumps" combined with "sort by price from lowest to highest." Originally by: Kwint Sommer Yes, my apologies, citing two broad categories (T2 and faction) plus the most highly used component in a third broad category (trit in T1) is obviously being too specific to be of any value. The current trit prices aren't the result of inflation, if they were you'd see all minerals spiking at the same time, they're the result of demand. Try again pl0x.
Manalapan Dynasty Banking	Posted - 2009.01.24 07:00:00 - [12] Originally by: nether void Market prices have nothing to do with inflation. FALSE!!! Inflation Dynasty Banking
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.01.24 13:14:00 - [13] Originally by: Dani SP What would be the consequences if people could check the whole universe prices instead of getting the region limits. I presume three ones: 1 - Jita losing some important activity. 2 - More accurate/shaped prices and smaller margins. 3 - overall Eve Online inflation being smaller. 1- Jita will GAIN a lot of activity, since now people in places like Motsu, Sivala and other similar (mission) hubs will no longer find the prices in the local area enticing enough and simply choose to make a couple more jumps to Jita to get them. 2- All high-volume items (at least in the areas where they're high volume) have very similar prices even across regions. So, the only items that might "benefit" the end user are the small things, which barely matter in the grand scheme of things. 3 - Wherever did you get that crazy idea ? _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.01.24 13:49:00 - [14] I think that whole EVE might be a bit hard on database in regular market format. However, I yhink that instead of current region based system it would be better to have distance based system. Ie, something similar like current remote production skills work, just starting a bit higher. Say without skills 10 jumps radius around you and then +5 jumps for each level from you. It would not be a lot easier on database tho, as you would need to calculate list of systems within range and then chek those systems.
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec	Posted - 2009.01.24 15:48:00 - [15] Solution.. BROKERS. Automated remote controlled trading. This also to increase the nerfed limitation on number of orders. Jita is the result of travel time travel safety. Convinience and lack of market orders active ingame. Lack of transperency in regards to player created metagame market and trading. Last the still missing npc hauling. Player simply cant or wont work the courrier missions with current mechanics. Sure some do, but not nearly enough to speed things up, and the payments on player created shipments are simply still a bit to low. A solution to Hauling could be a feature that would use the "psst would you like" from good old ports of call. So when you leave the client have checked local station or solar system for courrier contracts. So you would have to scan and plan for them manually. - Money is Love - Sometimes it just gets bend the wrong ways. Feed your Brain: Innovation Thread
Kwint Sommer Caldari XERCORE	Posted - 2009.01.24 17:09:00 - [16] Originally by: nether void Market prices have nothing to do with inflation. Inflation is directly related to new cash flow into the system. Goverments printing money. In the case of EvE: bounties, mission rewards, insurance...and I think that's it. Could be a couple more. But what you are basically saying is dissolve regional views of the market. I think it would suck. There's already barely enough in the game to create differences between industrials/traders. Taking away one of the few ways to be different would hurt the game. I'm not sure what you think my argument is but you obviously don't know what inflation is so I think I'm just going to stop trying to figure out why you think I'm in favor of the OP's absurd idea.
Kitsumi Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.24 18:07:00 - [17] Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Last the still missing npc hauling. Player simply cant or wont work the courrier missions with current mechanics. Sure some do, but not nearly enough to speed things up, and the payments on player created shipments are simply still a bit to low. Yeah, I love the ol' 5,000xM3, 6mil collateral, 200k Rens->Jita stuff that gets posted all the time. Yeah, 200k for 11 jump one of which through the most camped sector in the universe. 17, most through lowsec, if you avoid that sector. What needs to happen is for some standard pricing for number of jumps based off collateral and security. *Scars flown proud!*
Petyr Baelich Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.01.24 18:41:00 - [18] Originally by: Kitsumi Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Last the still missing npc hauling. Player simply cant or wont work the courrier missions with current mechanics. Sure some do, but not nearly enough to speed things up, and the payments on player created shipments are simply still a bit to low. Yeah, I love the ol' 5,000xM3, 6mil collateral, 200k Rens->Jita stuff that gets posted all the time. Yeah, 200k for 11 jump one of which through the most camped sector in the universe. 17, most through lowsec, if you avoid that sector. What needs to happen is for some standard pricing for number of jumps based off collateral and security. If people weren't accepting those contracts, people wouldn't be posting them. I agree that many haulers seriously undervalue their time, but I'm glad that they do. If you have a certain standard pricing as far as jumps/m3/risk in mind, you should probably market that idea and profit from it. For instance, I need around 250km3 of items flown from Jita to somewhere else every week to run my operation; I pay a premium for someone I trust to do so quickly and efficiently. Public contracts are not the way to wealth as a hauler, nor are they the way to an efficient logistics train for a builder. Anyway, back to the OP's suggestion. The reasons this is a bad idea have already been stated succinctly by Kwint. In addition, there are already player-run databases to fill the role the OP intends. They do not kill regional trade or hauling as a profession; they actually make those activities more efficient.
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.01.24 23:43:00 - [19] Edited by: nether void on 24/01/2009 23:43:47 Originally by: Manalapan Originally by: nether void Market prices have nothing to do with inflation. FALSE!!! Inflation I can't agree with that wiki article. Prices can't go up unless the supply of money goes up. So inflation directly correlates to increase in monetary supply, else eventually nobody could afford to buy anything. Price increases are a result of more money available to spend in the system. --------------------
Sun Clausewitz	Posted - 2009.02.12 20:38:00 - [20] Originally by: Carniflex I think that whole EVE might be a bit hard on database in regular market format. However, I yhink that instead of current region based system it would be better to have distance based system. Ie, something similar like current remote production skills work, just starting a bit higher. Say without skills 10 jumps radius around you and then +5 jumps for each level from you. It would not be a lot easier on database tho, as you would need to calculate list of systems within range and then chek those systems. This... I can sit in Sobaseki and not see the market prices in Jita (1 Jump away) but can see the prices 15 jumps away. Makes very little sense
Iamid Ichabod	Posted - 2009.02.12 21:17:00 - [21] Edited by: Iamid Ichabod on 12/02/2009 21:19:05 Originally by: nether void Edited by: nether void on 24/01/2009 23:43:47 Originally by: Manalapan Originally by: nether void Market prices have nothing to do with inflation. FALSE!!! Inflation I can't agree with that wiki article. Prices can't go up unless the supply of money goes up. So inflation directly correlates to increase in monetary supply, else eventually nobody could afford to buy anything. Price increases are a result of more money available to spend in the system. So, a large enough amount of capital pours into a market of a basic good (lets say oil futures) thereby driving the costs of oil products up. This price rise would be out of proportion to the change in supply or demand of the actual oil usage. Further price of everything dependent oil goes up. That hasn't/wouldn't cause inflation across all prices? In regards to your 3rd sentence, a large amount of capital pours into a market whose regulations aren't enforced and the market supply is saturated (let's say housing) ... nm won't go there. To the OP I'd like the ability to pick the region I look up buy/sell orders on high/low sec, or pay an agent to check buy/sell orders for a specific item across high/low sec. Edited For Typo
Lisa Waen	Posted - 2009.02.12 22:28:00 - [22] A perhaps better solution would be to have the separate markets queriable. If you are say, sitting in Sobaseki, and you want to check The Forge prices, you could be able to query that regions markets. Condition 1: You cannot place orders, buy or sell. You can only read. Condition 2: The data you get is anywhere from 10min to one hour old, and refreshes periodically, rather than immediately. This would basically mean that the server would be taking a snapshot of the market data for the players outside of the region, minimizing lag hopefully. This would assist those players who only have a single account, and who cannot, or will not afford a market alt or five to keep tabs on what is happening cross-region. Think of it as a newspaper of sorts. Whether or not players should be charged isk for this service is debatable.
Vested Interest	Posted - 2009.02.12 23:28:00 - [23] I'm not so sure that the regional segregation of the markets is a bad thing. This being said here's how I'd "fix" things Add a skill called Telepresence and a special implant to use it. Each level of Telepresence would let you operate the market in a foreign region as though at single station in that region (albeit with normal full regional control.) This remote trade-station would have to be designated in advance and a monthly fee would be associated with its use, something like 10-20m or maybe per-lookup/activity fees. /me shrugs
cpt Mark	Posted - 2009.02.13 00:25:00 - [24] a loaf of bread in the Uk costs around 70pence. A loaf of bread in India would probably cost around 10 pence. Does that mean a loaf of bread will become cheaper? no.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.02.13 01:09:00 - [25] Originally by: Lisa Waen A perhaps better solution would be to have the separate markets queriable. If you are say, sitting in Sobaseki, and you want to check The Forge prices, you could be able to query that regions markets. Condition 1: You cannot place orders, buy or sell. You can only read. Condition 2: The data you get is anywhere from 10min to one hour old, and refreshes periodically, rather than immediately. This would basically mean that the server would be taking a snapshot of the market data for the players outside of the region, minimizing lag hopefully. This would assist those players who only have a single account, and who cannot, or will not afford a market alt or five to keep tabs on what is happening cross-region. Think of it as a newspaper of sorts. Whether or not players should be charged isk for this service is debatable. And is eve central market not good enough for you? Blueprint Store
Wieting Foyu Gallente Stream Galactic Industries	Posted - 2009.02.13 14:05:00 - [26] Originally by: Sun Clausewitz Originally by: Carniflex I think that whole EVE might be a bit hard on database in regular market format. However, I yhink that instead of current region based system it would be better to have distance based system. Ie, something similar like current remote production skills work, just starting a bit higher. Say without skills 10 jumps radius around you and then +5 jumps for each level from you. It would not be a lot easier on database tho, as you would need to calculate list of systems within range and then chek those systems. This... I can sit in Sobaseki and not see the market prices in Jita (1 Jump away) but can see the prices 15 jumps away. Makes very little sense Or you can just make the jump yourself
Delta Wings Evolva' Spirit House of Mercury	Posted - 2009.02.13 15:42:00 - [27] Edited by: Delta Wings on 13/02/2009 15:43:20 Jep, AND, let's treat it like one auctionhouse for all items so you don't have to move around from Ironforge to Darnassus to get the cheapest item. Good idea edit: another option; why not delete all missions and replace it with one agent giving away one mission. That will be so much easier for everyone. [color orange]this is not a link[/color]
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.02.13 20:32:00 - [28] Originally by: Iamid Ichabod a large enough amount of capital pours into a market = Inflation. Yes. You see my point. If the capital leaves the system, deflation. It's pretty simple.
Iamid Ichabod	Posted - 2009.02.14 00:21:00 - [29] Originally by: nether void Originally by: Iamid Ichabod a large enough amount of capital pours into a market = Inflation. Yes. You see my point. If the capital leaves the system, deflation. It's pretty simple. In my example the system was to be infered as a national system of markets and the capital influx a redistribution within the national markets to a specific market ie a sub-system (market) causing a national inflation. I guess not so simple?

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