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Arcin Hamir
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Posted - 2009.01.25 10:40:00 -
[1]
With the recent changes to gate size the ward disruption field on HICs has become even poorer. Even with reasonable skill levels an enemy will almost always be near the edge of the field after jumping through the gate, a quick microwarp and they are then clear and warping off with next to zero chance of catching them. It was very difficulty even before the gate changes now it is all but impossible to catch enemies with HIC bubbles. Could the bubbles be increased in size or have an effect on MWDs?
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Tai Paktu
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.25 21:41:00 -
[2]
Don't limit this to just the bubble. A 30km point isn't actually all that great. A Lachesis can mount a decent enough armour/resist buffer to receive remote reps, have a longer effective tackle distance, be faster than a HIC and has more mid-slots to fit sensor boosters (because now you need at least 2 to have a chance at even catching cruisers).
If the HIC is a specific area-denial boat, why is it that it is surpassed in almost every way* in high sec/low sec by a ship designed primarily to Sensor Damp with the secondary purpose of tackling?
*Obviously, the redeeming factor of the HIC is the infini-point but for the vast majority of combat situations, 1 point is enough. |
Nnamuachs
Caldari
Kiith Paktu
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Posted - 2009.01.25 23:04:00 -
[3]
i thought the primary purpose of the heavy interdictors were to lock down moms and titans, not to lock down 0.0 gates.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.01.26 00:18:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 26/01/2009 00:18:28
 Originally by: Nnamuachs
i thought the primary purpose of the heavy interdictors were to lock down moms and titans, not to lock down 0.0 gates.
what he says.
afaik the haevy dictors are indeed to be cap tacklers not a camping tool...
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Arcin Hamir
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Posted - 2009.01.26 12:48:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Arcin Hamir on 26/01/2009 12:48:11
If the primary purpose of HICs was only to lock down Titans and Motherships there would be very few of them and they would rarely leave station/PoS. Their role is both to generate a mobile bubble and to infini-point ships - they get used far more in the first role than the second and currently the bubble role is marginal.
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taekwandokid
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.01.26 13:02:00 -
[6]
setup catch bubbles on out-bound gates, warp where the target warps.... bam, you got him.
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Calis Kreios
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Posted - 2009.01.26 13:06:00 -
[7]
why would ther be very few of them? hahaha
the hic was designed specificly for super caps but they work just as good on any other ship as well and with thier tank why would they not be heavaly used?
you got it all wrong man...
if something can stop super caps it better be able to stop anything else!
the hic was not made to camp gates but it does it just great!
we getting the point yet?
awesome if your camping larger gates use more hic or use bubble and hic or im sure you can find a workable varient.
cry no more and go use more stuff if it calls for more, simple as that
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.01.26 14:47:00 -
[8]
do you seriously want a ship being modificated for allowing a more effective gatecamps, which was not even designed for???
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Arcin Hamir
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Posted - 2009.01.26 17:58:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
do you seriously want a ship being modificated for allowing a more effective gatecamps, which was not even designed for???
Hmm yes I have seen this form of response on a number of posts, the one that runs "I don't use this ship/module that way (or don't like the implications of this use) therefore it is wrong and unnatural - how dare you ask this?"
This type or response is neither useful nor constructve.
Regardless of whither the bubble is being used to gank industrials or to try and catch nano reds raiding a system it is a potential use. The point I made was thet the recent changes had moved this use from being difficult (certainly against nano type ships) to almost impossible. If this is a design intent then fair enough, if it was an unexpected consequence then the Developers should know about it.
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2009.01.26 19:30:00 -
[10]
Did it ever cross your mind that perhaps some of the people who make decisions at CCP do not like kill mail farming, and to reduce the amount of kill mail farming from the empire to 0.0 systems, they put bigger gates in so that HIC couldn't cover the whole area of the gate?
I think the REASON they put bigger gates in on region borders was because you and people like you were using the HIC in a way it was not intended to be used.
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Arcin Hamir
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Posted - 2009.01.26 19:34:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Hesperius
Did it ever cross your mind that perhaps some of the people who make decisions at CCP do not like kill mail farming, and to reduce the amount of kill mail farming from the empire to 0.0 systems, they put bigger gates in so that HIC couldn't cover the whole area of the gate?
I think the REASON they put bigger gates in on region borders was because you and people like you were using the HIC in a way it was not intended to be used.
Yes - please actually read what I posted.
Two points:
1. There are a whole range of reasons for using a HIC like this, becuase you do not like one of the reasons is no need to be upitty.
2. Had you read what I wrote I did include the possibility that the developers intended exactly this sort of behavior but equally perhaps they did not. To reiterate if that is the intent then fair enough.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.01.26 19:48:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Arcin Hamir
To reiterate if that is the intent then fair enough.
I hope its indended to be... Camping sucks enough to not let it get too easy.
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2009.01.26 20:02:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Hesperius on 26/01/2009 20:03:10
Originally by: Arcin Hamir
Yes - please actually read what I posted. Just because you THINK you know why I am using a HIC and you dont like it is no reason for that sort of response.
Two points:
1. There are a whole range of reasons for using a HIC like this, becuase you do not like one of the reasons is no need to be upitty.
2. Had you read what I wrote I did include the possibility that the developers intended exactly this sort of behavior but equally perhaps they did not. To reiterate if that is the intent then fair enough.
Sorry, which part did I not read? upitty? I think you are reading something that isn't there.
Industrialists do not use the HIC to secure a system, they use large mobile warp disruptor. Furthermore they do not mine on entry systems or on pipes, so those systems do not need to be locked down. Region borders (entry systems) are where CCP put the larger gates, yes you will find region gates between 0.0 regions, but those are also pipe systems. If you are complaining about the gate size being too big, I know you are sitting on a region border. So it is not what I think, its what you have inadvertently admitted to. |
Arcin Hamir
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Posted - 2009.01.26 20:12:00 -
[14]
Actually no, in this particular case the gate camp was to stop enemies (who had just carried out a war dec) who were trying to get into our section of 0.0 just running through and ganking merchants.
But to get back to the point YOU have an opinion I have an opinion, I do not try to put my opinions on you please do not place yours on me as I noted before yours is a standard response - "I dont like it so it must be wrong" additionally stated based ona set of assumptions that have no credence.
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Inquisitor Berthez
Make Love To War
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Posted - 2009.01.26 20:25:00 -
[15]
Look Arcin! I'm in your thread 
Pimp my NavPoc
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2009.01.26 20:33:00 -
[16]
The only reason to make a HIC bubble bigger would be to cover region gates. They already cover other gates.
Ok I see that you recently got kills in Y-MPWL, next to the empire system Kari. No I don't know what your intentions are, but when doing a brief click through your killmails, I can see that you toss big numbers at what appears to be mostly solo targets. I consider that killmail farming.
HIC bubbles are big enough to cover most gates in the game, you are asking for too much in my opinion. Best of luck with your request. o/
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Arcin Hamir
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Posted - 2009.01.26 20:39:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Hesperius
The only reason to make a HIC bubble bigger would be to cover region gates. They already cover other gates.
Ok I see that you recently got kills in Y-MPWL, next to the empire system Kari. No I don't know what your intentions are, but when doing a brief click through your killmails, I can see that you toss big numbers at what appears to be mostly solo targets. I consider that killmail farming.
HIC bubbles are big enough to cover most gates in the game, you are asking for too much in my opinion. Best of luck with your request. o/
Again you have no idea of the true picture, the last set of kills in YMP were fleet on fleet - multiple people on one target is what tends to happen when an FC calls primary....and does not (as you suggest) imply some poor lone sole ganked by a huge and evil group.
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2009.01.26 20:49:00 -
[18]
10 pages deep into your corps kills on battle clinic and the best I can found is 4 guys from the same corp killed consecutively. You have 24 people from your corp on one of those battleship mails, that is not a fleet battle.
Care to post a link to some evidence?
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Arcin Hamir
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Posted - 2009.01.26 21:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Hesperius
10 pages deep into your corps kills on battle clinic and the best I can found is 4 guys from the same corp killed consecutively. You have 24 people from your corp on one of those battleship mails, that is not a fleet battle.
Care to post a link to some evidence?
Like what?? For what it is worth as I recall we had around 35+ ships to their approximately 25 (I dont know the exact ship mix but both sides had a number of battleships). They were camping the gate (with bubbles up as it happens) and were ganking neuts and blues, we warped in quickly,caught them on the hop and won. As I could claim anything of course you are free to contradict this (or demand further evidence that I have no real means of supplying unless I can get some of those present to sign avidavits) - but your entire chain of posts are based on second guessing (100% inaccurately so far) the intent of another poster, when challenged on this you just question some other motive!
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Krennel Darius
Caldari
New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2009.01.26 21:49:00 -
[20]
The reason for the bigger region gates is simple, and it is the same reason for the new changes to T2 industrials: in the opinion of CCP and a fair majority of players, HIC's were majorly disrupting the economy of 0.0 and low security regions. Plain and simple. HIC's were designed primarily to throw up bubbles or scrams on supercaps, and to take a hit from a Doomsday weapon and survive to keep scrambling the said Titan. Unfortunately, CCP did what they normally do when they introduce something new, and failed to see all of the ways a HIC could be used, and have been running around to fix that mistake without actually nerfing HIC's. So be happy that all CCP is doing is making 20% of the games gates larger, and giving four T2 inties a CovOps cloak. |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Alternative Realities
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Posted - 2009.01.26 21:52:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Arcin Hamir
It was very difficulty even before the gate changes now it is all but impossible to catch enemies with HIC bubbles.
God forbid that it takes a bit of effort to seal off a crucial entrance point.. |
Arcin Hamir
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Posted - 2009.01.26 22:17:00 -
[22]
Guys, I take the point and I am not try to demand a change just asking based on what I have seen. Note that my experience is not based on trying to gank freighters but mainly in trying to catch nano reds who are running about home systems (though the big gate stuff was generally heavier warships) believe me it takes a major effort to catch anyone in that case.
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2009.01.26 22:59:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Hesperius on 26/01/2009 23:01:05
You guys seem to keep your battle clinic killboard up to date. Be aware that I, as all people, can see the activity posted on that website. My assessment on your activity is based on what I see there, not assumptions.
I'll go back to square 1: The Large Mobile Warp Disruptor is for defense. The HIC's is for offense. The only reason to make the HIC bubble bigger is so you could duck and run when something comes that could possibly kill you. Is there some reason other than that to use a HIC instead of a Mobile Warp Disruptor that you can justify? |
Arcin Hamir
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Posted - 2009.01.26 23:10:00 -
[24]
Not really, you see 26 on 1 and you assume that a group ganked a single ship but it could equally be a fleet battle with a primary target. You make the assumpiton based on a premise that I am a pirate ganker, attacking easy kills.
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2009.01.26 23:23:00 -
[25]
Now look who is making assumptions. I looked and saw that there were 24 ships on 4 losses. Then I go to look at your losses that happened at the same time. I can see that you have participated in a few fleet battles, but the majority of you activity is ganking people. You are taking your thread off topic every time you continue this type of conversation.
Can you answer my question?
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