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Doctor Mabuse
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Posted - 2009.01.26 11:10:00 -
[1]
Because then my beautiful Logistics ship will be next!
With two in a gang, repping and cap boosting each other and still having spare large remote reps for the rest of the gang.
I can see the post-M10/Falcon-nerf whine threads now
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Shining Tears
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Posted - 2009.01.26 12:00:00 -
[2]
yep nurf them all, frigates do 5dps, cruisers 10, b.c 12.5 and battle ships do 20 dps, this way no one can loose a ship and no one will wine again!!! oh for t2 models.. they do an added .4 damage
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GI0VANNI
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Posted - 2009.01.26 12:50:00 -
[3]
Keep the Falcon as it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you do not like it use ECCM or FoF's....
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LadyLubU2
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.26 14:34:00 -
[4]
The post has been reported.
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Sean Faust
Gallente
Point of No Return
B.L.A.C.K.
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Posted - 2009.01.26 14:41:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: GI0VANNI
Keep the Falcon as it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you do not like it use ECCM or FoF's....
fofs are not a viable counter to being ECM'd as was proven in the alliance tournament matches this past weekend. all of the missile ships that were jammed lost despite having fof's loaded because they lost their ability to focus fire ships and the opponents were able to tank what little DPS went their way.
likewise ECCM is not a viable counter unless it is used on a battleship or a recon or something else with already high base sensor strength.
look at it this way:
fitting 1x sensor booster can completely negate the effect of 1x damp on you, but a falcon can still keep your hac permajammed with 1x racial jammer if you have 1x eccm fitted. |
lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.26 14:44:00 -
[6]
Edited by: lecrotta on 26/01/2009 14:46:42
Originally by: Sean Faust
likewise ECCM is not a viable counter unless it is used on a battleship or a recon or something else with already high base sensor strength.
The max you can realistically get a falcons str up to is around 14-15 jam str and even a t1 cruiser like a thorax has DOUBLE that with just 1 eccm fitted, reducing the chance to jam by 50% on summat as weak as a t1 cruiser.
Originally by: Sean Faust
fitting 1x sensor booster can completely negate the effect of 1x damp on you
That is a matter of perspective as it is as equally as true that:-
1 x damp can totally negate the effect of 1 x sensor booster...... |
Yoko Lee
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.26 14:59:00 -
[7]
Originally by: GI0VANNI
Keep the Falcon as it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you do not like it use ECCM or FoF's....
My aba have 2x eccm (2 med slot for cap inj and disruptor), my geddon have 1 eccm, my abso can't, 2x eccm dont work really good, dont have missile but gun, then no fof.
Now you see just gang with 2/3 ecm boat, become really stupid
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2009.01.26 15:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Sean Faust
The max you can realistically get a falcons str up to is around 14-15 jam str and even a t1 cruiser like a thorax has DOUBLE that with just 1 eccm fitted, reducing the chance to jam by 50% on summat as weak as a t1 cruiser.
It's still fairly easy to get a jam on said tech I cruiser, whereas one damp on a ship with 1 sensor booster is effectively doing nothing.
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Sean Faust
That is a matter of perspective as it is as equally as true that:-
1 x damp can totally negate the effect of 1 x sensor booster......
That's a faulty argument, because it acts as though ECCM has a use outside of not getting jammed.
Fit a SB to a ship and you've got protection from a damp, and when not damped you can lock a lot faster/farther.
Fit an ECCM to a ship and when not being attacked by a falcon it's completely useless. |
lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.26 15:09:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cambarus
That's a faulty argument, because it acts as though ECCM has a use outside of not getting jammed.
Fit a SB to a ship and you've got protection from a damp, and when not damped you can lock a lot faster/farther.
Fit an ECCM to a ship and when not being attacked by a falcon it's completely useless.
It is not a faulty argument cos NOBODY fits extra sensor boosters just in case they get damped, they fit them because they want to get a benefit from them in either lock range for snipers or lock speed for uber fast tacklers.
Damps remove those bonuses making a ship unable to lock at snipe range or tackle fast.
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2009.01.26 15:15:00 -
[10]
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Cambarus
It is not a faulty argument cos NOBODY fits extra sensor boosters just in case they get damped, they fit them because they want to get a benefit from them in either lock range for snipers or lock speed for uber fast tacklers.
Damps remove those bonuses making a ship unable to lock at snipe range or tackle fast.
Nobody does it because not every roaming gang has at least one arazu in it, and an arazu, with an optimal range of 30km, cannot bring down the lock ranges of his opponents far enough to be able to stop more then one guy from shooting him, he operates within drone range, and if a ceptor gets close (which takes 5 seconds as opposed to 60) there's nothing the arazu can do about it, save try to fight which usually does not end well given the fact that it's also made of paper.
Not everyone and their mother is training an arazu alt. When they do, then we'll see people fitting sensor boosters in their mids to counter them, but why bother seting up to counter an advantage that is not common on the battlefield? |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2009.01.26 15:20:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Cambarus
and an arazu, with an optimal range of 30km
Train long range jamming and frequency modulation and fit rigs, or stop complaining about range. With LRJ 5 and a single EW optimal rig, your optimal is 45Km. T2 Damps also have a 60Km falloff, 75Km will FM 5. Damps do work in falloff, you know.
Or is chance based jamming only overpowered when Falcons do it...?
Fun fact: "max skilled" Arazu has a better chance of damping a Falcon than a max skilled Falcon has of jamming an Arazu at 100Km.
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.26 15:24:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cambarus
Not everyone and their mother is training an arazu alt. When they do, then we'll see people fitting sensor boosters in their mids to counter them, but why bother seting up to counter an advantage that is not common on the battlefield?
And yet we do not see ppl fitting eccm to counter falcons, as they seem to prefer filling the forum with pointless troll threads instead.
Make all the claims you like but the fact is that ppl do not wanna fit to counter any ewar as its much easier to cry to ccp to nerf it to uselessness instead.
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.01.26 15:31:00 -
[13]
Originally by: lecrotta
And yet we do not see ppl fitting eccm to counter falcons, as they seem to prefer filling the forum with pointless troll threads instead.
And this statement is based on which statistics? I'd like to see evidence.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2009.01.26 15:34:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sean Faust
look at it this way:
fitting 1x sensor booster can completely negate the effect of 1x damp on you, but a falcon can still keep your hac permajammed with 1x racial jammer if you have 1x eccm fitted.
Facts:
T2 damp base str: 17% x1.25 for skill, x1.25 for ship bonus, x2 for script = -53.125%
T2 sensor booster: 30% x 2 for script = +60%
Base 100 x1.60 x 0.53125 = 85
Conclusion: a single sensor booster will not compensate for a single sensor damp.
More facts:
Lowest HAC sensor strength is 14
Max skilled Falcon jam strength is 15.1
14 x 1.96% = 27.5
Conclusion: Falcon has a 54.6% chance to jam assuming it has a free racial fo the correct type.
In summary: you're a liar.
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.26 15:41:00 -
[15]
Edited by: lecrotta on 26/01/2009 15:41:25
Originally by: Cohkka
Originally by: lecrotta
And yet we do not see ppl fitting eccm to counter falcons, as they seem to prefer filling the forum with pointless troll threads instead.
And this statement is based on which statistics? I'd like to see evidence.
1. All you need to is read the Loss mails of those complaining (Those that are not posting on ALTS making claims of being "perma-jammed" that is ).
2. As far as the pointless troll threads are concerned, all you need do is read the forums. |
Yoko Lee
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.26 15:44:00 -
[16]
Hac just so easy to perma jam like cs, cruiser, bc.
BS if 2x eccm can be a problem, 1 eccm not really, you will jam it.
How many ship can put 2x eccm? now you fit just to counter falcon and other ecm boat. |
lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.26 15:52:00 -
[17]
Edited by: lecrotta on 26/01/2009 15:52:11
Originally by: Yoko Lee
Hac just so easy to perma jam like cs, cruiser, bc.
Most CS and BC have the same sig str as some BS bud in fact some have more than certain BS...i mean really do you ppl actually bother to research before you start talking crap?.
Originally by: Yoko Lee
How many ship can put 2x eccm? now you fit just to counter falcon and other ecm boat.
2 MODULES TO MAKE A ENTIRE T2 SHIP FITTED WITH A MID RACK OF MODULES WORTHLESS IS TOO MUCH TO ASK?......
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Leiara Knight
Gallente
The Oblivion Guard
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Posted - 2009.01.26 16:07:00 -
[18]
Ejecting to your pod is a very effective counter to target painters. Furthermore, if you hide behind a station, the Falcon will no longer be able to easily tackle you. |
Yoko Lee
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.26 16:32:00 -
[19]
Originally by: lecrotta
Edited by: lecrotta on 26/01/2009 15:52:11
Originally by: Yoko Lee
Hac just so easy to perma jam like cs, cruiser, bc.
Most CS and BC have the same sig str as some BS bud in fact some have more than certain BS...i mean really do you ppl actually bother to research before you start talking crap?.
Originally by: Yoko Lee
How many ship can put 2x eccm? now you fit just to counter falcon and other ecm boat.
2 MODULES TO MAKE A ENTIRE T2 SHIP FITTED WITH A MID RACK OF MODULES WORTHLESS IS TOO MUCH TO ASK?......
You want a falcon online, you have a alt with falcon like lot of player...
Dont want fit my ship just to counter one ship, abso have 3 med slot and i need med cap inj, mwd and disruptor, no room for eccm. (of course, i change ship if i need eccm, my harbi have 1 eccm, my abba 2 eccm, my geddon 1 eccm, etc etc etc)
You can see so mutch gang with 2/3 falcon now, why? cause nobody want lose a ship and prefer have 3 falcon to jam 2 fregate...
with falcon, you can jam to 200 250km (with rigs, skills and good fit), 50km no more or put inty invulnerable to ecm.
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Antimony Noske
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Posted - 2009.01.26 16:47:00 -
[20]
Originally by: lecrotta
And yet we do not see ppl fitting eccm to counter falcons
Make all the claims you like but the fact is that ppl do not wanna fit to counter any ewar
Here's the way I see it:
The average pilot doesn't have enough slots to even consider fitting ECCM, the cost does not outweigh the benefit. If you're solo and you get jammed, it doesn't matter how much ECCM you've got, you're going to stay jammed regardless. If you're in a fleet and you get jammed, it doesn't matter because the rest of your fleet is going to be working on killing the jammer, and if you're not tackled or bubbled, you can just warp out.
In addition, having an ECCM module or three is going to put you a distinct disadvantage in all the occasions when you DON'T run into a jammer. So why bother? When a player gets jammed, their only option is to let someone else take care of the problem or run away.
This I feel, is the biggest problem with jamming: It removes the ability of the target to do anything back.
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AleRiperKilt
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Posted - 2009.01.26 16:48:00 -
[21]
Yeah, don't nerf the falcon, my alt is 7 days away from flying one 
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Linnth
Amarr
Darkill Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.26 18:39:00 -
[22]
Just face it. Falcon's are for G A Y people who don't know how to Pvp.
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Amarr: Getting screwed since 2005! |
lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.26 18:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Linnth
Just face it. Falcon's are for G A Y people who don't know how to Pvp.
If falcons are so uber true pvpers should see them as a challenge, so what does that make the whiners......
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Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2009.01.26 18:44:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Linnth
Just face it. Falcon's are for G A Y people who don't know how to Pvp.
Huge overstatement... falcons are a necessary evil. I don't like them but often you need them simply because if you don't use them, opposition will. And than you are going to die. A gang without them is more or less a punch bag today. You can moan about "knowing how to pvp" all you want, if you're dead and they aren't - you lost.
What's funny is falcon alt concept. "I go solo. My falcon alt and I."
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Linnth
Amarr
Darkill Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.26 18:50:00 -
[25]
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Linnth
Just face it. Falcon's are for G A Y people who don't know how to Pvp.
If falcons are so uber true pvpers should see them as a challenge, so what does that make the whiners......
Dude, your post doesn't even make sense.
If you want to Pvp, then fly something beside a Falcon. PvP in a Falcon is more like PvE than anything else.
Vrabac has good point though, but that can hopefully be avoided in the future.
Proposed nerf: Create a new system, move all Falcon ships into it. And make sure there are no jump gates and name the system San Fransisco.
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Amarr: Getting screwed since 2005! |
lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.26 18:59:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Linnth
Dude, your post doesn't even make sense.
It makes perfect sense unless your afraid of a challenge, 1.catching falcons and 2. flying a falcon in a roaming gang and jumping into camps.
Originally by: Linnth
If you want to Pvp, then fly something beside a Falcon. PvP in a Falcon is more like PvE than anything else.
The "its like pve" comment can be applied to any ship that works at sniper range, although as per usual you are applying the fact that falcons are always at 200ish km instead of jumping into a camp as part of a roaming gang.
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Christari Zuborov
Amarr
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2009.01.26 19:02:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 26/01/2009 19:02:21
Originally by: Yoko Lee
Originally by: lecrotta
Edited by: lecrotta on 26/01/2009 15:52:11
Originally by: Yoko Lee
Hac just so easy to perma jam like cs, cruiser, bc.
Most CS and BC have the same sig str as some BS bud in fact some have more than certain BS...i mean really do you ppl actually bother to research before you start talking crap?.
Originally by: Yoko Lee
How many ship can put 2x eccm? now you fit just to counter falcon and other ecm boat.
2 MODULES TO MAKE A ENTIRE T2 SHIP FITTED WITH A MID RACK OF MODULES WORTHLESS IS TOO MUCH TO ASK?......
You want a falcon online, you have a alt with falcon like lot of player...
Dont want fit my ship just to counter one ship, abso have 3 med slot and i need med cap inj, mwd and disruptor, no room for eccm. (of course, i change ship if i need eccm, my harbi have 1 eccm, my abba 2 eccm, my geddon 1 eccm, etc etc etc)
You can see so mutch gang with 2/3 falcon now, why? cause nobody want lose a ship and prefer have 3 falcon to jam 2 fregate...
with falcon, you can jam to 200 250km (with rigs, skills and good fit), 50km no more or put inty invulnerable to ecm.
You don't have to use mids for ECCM... There are sensor backup arrays that are low slot useable. Replace those x3 HS2 with them on your Harbi :) Trade in a little gank for ECCM strength.
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Linnth
Amarr
Darkill Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.26 19:04:00 -
[28]
Originally by: lecrotta
The "its like pve" comment can be applied to any ship that works at sniper range, although as per usual you are applying the fact that falcons are always at 200ish km instead of jumping into a camp as part of a roaming gang.
Ha ha, whatever floats your boat man. Apparently you like to take challenges. Flying around and shooting at stuff that can't shoot back is a real challenge. I agree with that. It is a challenge to stay awake while trying to kill them with your worthless dps. At least when flying a sniper ship, the other side has the option of shooting back if they want. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
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Amarr: Getting screwed since 2005! |
lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.26 19:07:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Linnth
Originally by: lecrotta
The "its like pve" comment can be applied to any ship that works at sniper range, although as per usual you are applying the fact that falcons are always at 200ish km instead of jumping into a camp as part of a roaming gang.
Ha ha, whatever floats your boat man. Apparently you like to take challenges. Flying around and shooting at stuff that can't shoot back is a real challenge. I agree with that. It is a challenge to stay awake while trying to kill them with your worthless dps. At least when flying a sniper ship, the other side has the option of shooting back if they want. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
It would be around now that the falcon whiners would point out that the ship at snipe range would just warp off.......or that they should not have to fit to hit ships at snipe range..ect ect whine whine.
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Reaver Babe
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Posted - 2009.01.26 19:07:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Linnth
Originally by: lecrotta
The "its like pve" comment can be applied to any ship that works at sniper range, although as per usual you are applying the fact that falcons are always at 200ish km instead of jumping into a camp as part of a roaming gang.
Ha ha, whatever floats your boat man. Apparently you like to take challenges. Flying around and shooting at stuff that can't shoot back is a real challenge. I agree with that. It is a challenge to stay awake while trying to kill them with your worthless dps. At least when flying a sniper ship, the other side has the option of shooting back if they want. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
You know, you're not doing those of us on the "falcons are OP" side of the fence any favors by standing on our side of the line. Stop talking now please. |
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