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MailDeadDrop Globaltech Industries	Posted - 2009.01.26 20:31:00 - [1] (I glanced at the first 3 pages of MD and didn't see a thread on this yet. If I missed it and this thread is now a duplicate, well, I tried. --MDD) So, after reading the first useful blog about Apocrypha changes, I foresee a coming crash in the Sisters Scan Probe Launcher market. The timing is obviously in the air. Any other obvious effects?
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2009.01.26 20:34:00 - [2] In regards to the Sisters Scan Probe Launcher I see 2 options: 1. People go crazy and put a lot onto market. Price drops a lot 2. Nothing happens. Given that we will be using completely new gear, it might only serve to decrease the demand. But that's it. That of course depends on what CCP will ACTUALLY do to the current probe launchers people have. If CCP end up converting all current launchers but recon launchers to the new type then demand will spike. Kinda related to Apocrypha, tomorrow's patch: Price of PLEXes will drop steadily over the next couple of weeks.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.01.26 20:39:00 - [3] Existing launchers will get reused some how, past experience with CCP does not have them nullifying an item willy nilly.
MarieFrance Tessier	Posted - 2009.01.26 20:44:00 - [4] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Existing launchers will get reused some how, past experience with CCP does not have them nullifying an item willy nilly. That's neither here nor there. If Sisters launchers lose their status as "Best in game" (which I'm almost sure they will), their price will fall period.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.01.26 20:55:00 - [5] Originally by: MarieFrance Tessier Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Existing launchers will get reused some how, past experience with CCP does not have them nullifying an item willy nilly. That's neither here nor there. If Sisters launchers lose their status as "Best in game" (which I'm almost sure they will), their price will fall period. note I never said they would go up or down, I said they would get reused so they'll retain some value at a minimum.
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.01.26 21:04:00 - [6] The real question will become what do you need for probing in the new world? Do you use cov-ops, find wormhole and come back with combat ship to jump through? If cov-ops is still used then Sisters launcher may still be best. by changing the skill/module requirements it means everyone will be able to search for wormholes. I am just hoping I can continue to scan in 100secs, and the noobs with no skills take 10 minutes!
MailDeadDrop Globaltech Industries	Posted - 2009.01.26 21:08:00 - [7] Edited by: MailDeadDrop on 26/01/2009 21:08:55 Actually, I've been reading the CCP responses very carefully, and while they say they are changing "the system" and the behaviors of the probes themselves, they haven't said anything preventing the existing scan probe launchers from using the new probe class. So we may have a situation where there is a new probe launcher (with much lower fitting requirements) and new scan probes, but the existing scan probe launchers can still load/launch them. Which, if I'm reading the tea leaves correctly, would make the Sisters launchers even more valuable as best-in-game for what will obviously become a more popular profession. Boy I sure wish Sisi was ready... MDD
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2009.01.26 21:13:00 - [8] It's not clear to me that Sisters scan probe launchers will drop. After all, regular exploration may still be an important part of wormhole exploitation. They still have yet to say how the BPC part of T3 invention enters Eve. Further it's not clear what the new exploration probes will run down. In the Dev Blog, I see the phrase "wormholes and other celestial anomalies". That might not include regular cosmic signatures. The thread associated with the dev blog is huge so this might already be answered.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.01.26 21:28:00 - [9] Originally by: MailDeadDrop Edited by: MailDeadDrop on 26/01/2009 21:08:55 Actually, I've been reading the CCP responses very carefully, and while they say they are changing "the system" and the behaviors of the probes themselves, they haven't said anything preventing the existing scan probe launchers from using the new probe class. So we may have a situation where there is a new probe launcher (with much lower fitting requirements) and new scan probes, but the existing scan probe launchers can still load/launch them. Which, if I'm reading the tea leaves correctly, would make the Sisters launchers even more valuable as best-in-game for what will obviously become a more popular profession. Boy I sure wish Sisi was ready... MDD Thats my take on it. Cosmic anomolies, dead space, etc.. will still require the older probes and launchers (albiet with a slightly revamped system as they have said they want to get away from the 20 probe madness) and a new launcher type and probe type will be introduced. It makes the most sense, leaves existing items mostly intact, leaves existing skill sets intact and allow expansion and variation of a skill set. Something they are very keen on doing. Slightly OT, but Ricdic guessed some time back that the rigging skills will likely be the base build skills used in the T3 process and I'm VERY inclined to agree after reading the tone of this most recent blog.
Trading Bunnz Equatorial Industires Dark Taboo	Posted - 2009.01.27 02:14:00 - [10] Originally by: CCP Whisper ...We are still in the process of balancing these probes and launchers and yes, we are looking into the options of how to deal with the existing probes, probe blueprints and launchers... Thats a pretty clear statement that existing probes, launchers and prints will change. They rarely get any clearer from CCP in fact. New scanning mechanic, new probes, new launchers and they are still balancing them and still working out what the heck to do with existing ones. If you are feeling lucky, build a whole chunk of probes off existing prints and you may just score big. Or not.
Ricdics Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.01.27 06:01:00 - [11] Probes are worth less than 30k each so probably not worth the bother of mass production and it's pretty much guaranteed they will become obsolete (unless that was your intention) As to exploration and wormholes I must say I am getting a major hard-on about it. I quite enjoy exploration in its current form as it is so I think this is going to be truly awesome. Drop an outpost in an exploration system People could rarely visit it, but it would still be awesome In actuality though I plan on getting a small/med POS out there with some ammo bpo's and basically everything I need to set up shop. There will be some complications (fuel specifically), however it's pretty easy to have an Orca or JF deliver 6 months worth of fuel and basic supplies. It would be my own space, I could get to know the Jove locals, fly around nude etc. It would be truly wonderful. Every few weeks when a wormhole to empire appears I pop back with my supplies and then go back to resume operations. Most of this probably won't be possible but I really hope it is as epic as I am picturing it.
SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2009.01.27 06:14:00 - [12] Originally by: Trading Bunnz ...., build a whole chunk of probes off existing prints and you may just score big. Or not. I build and sell these probes, all of them they make decent returns on their own merits. I recently finished pumping out about 40-50K of each one (Normal cycle) I choose to not place them on the market just yet, and instead opted to make another 50K worth of each. Am I feeling lucky, not really but since I would have made then anyway, keeping a few extra on hand is not going to hurt me. What I am gambling on is not the fact they may change for the better, but change for the worse. If these things become cheaper to make I'm kinda screwed, but that's a chance I'm willing to take. If they don't change it's a wash, if they do change for the better I score. Two out of Three ant bad. Amarr for Life
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.01.27 06:42:00 - [13] Quote: So, after reading the first useful blog about Apocrypha changes, I foresee a coming crash in the Sisters Scan Probe Launcher market. The timing is obviously in the air. The devs have said in there comments that they are looking to keep all the skills still a factor and all the same modules in use. Perhaps just with a name change? Wouldnt be the first time they completely botched items ingame before. python mines cough. post 268 If you notice it doesnt exactly say they arent bricking the millions we have spent already.
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.01.27 06:46:00 - [14] Originally by: cosmoray The real question will become what do you need for probing in the new world? Do you use cov-ops, find wormhole and come back with combat ship to jump through? If cov-ops is still used then Sisters launcher may still be best. by changing the skill/module requirements it means everyone will be able to search for wormholes. I am just hoping I can continue to scan in 100secs, and the noobs with no skills take 10 minutes! I think they have kind of answered this. Yes you might scan it down in ur trusty helios... but if ur coming back in ur bs. It better have a scanprobe launcher onboard in order to scan and get back home. Only problem... you might come out 40 jumps from high sec and no place to hide. Also think they arent necessarily going with the net approach of scanning anymore. I think they might just have u sit there and you will just work to lock on to something. It then sort of pings and shows you locking onto the target. Rather then the silly net system they have now.
Astarte Nosferatu Abrivianius Manufacturing Corporation	Posted - 2009.01.27 10:50:00 - [15] I predict prices of implants will skyrocket leading up to, and after Apocrypha. The increased demand for +1 to +4 implants will cause the price for +5's to drop slightly however.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.27 10:54:00 - [16] Originally by: SencneS Originally by: Trading Bunnz ...., build a whole chunk of probes off existing prints and you may just score big. Or not. I build and sell these probes, all of them they make decent returns on their own merits. I recently finished pumping out about 40-50K of each one (Normal cycle) I choose to not place them on the market just yet, and instead opted to make another 50K worth of each. Am I feeling lucky, not really but since I would have made then anyway, keeping a few extra on hand is not going to hurt me. What I am gambling on is not the fact they may change for the better, but change for the worse. If these things become cheaper to make I'm kinda screwed, but that's a chance I'm willing to take. If they don't change it's a wash, if they do change for the better I score. Two out of Three ant bad. The probes will be somewhat reusable and capable of switching position (maybe something like a drone or even fighter at they will be warp capable) so probably the production cost will increase but the demand decrease.
Joss Sparq Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.27 11:16:00 - [17] Originally by: Ricdics Drop an outpost in an exploration system People could rarely visit it, but it would still be awesome That ... would ... be ... AWESOME! I wish people could drop Outposts out there in those 2500 new systems. Not that they can (I believe) be made Soverign so probably not, of course. Still, it is nice to dream. I'm quite looking forward to this expansion, actually. I rolled a Hulk & Helios Alt a while back for gravimetric belts - I haven't really used them a great deal though and was thinking about selling them off but now I might just hold onto them a tad longer. They can fly an Ishkur and almost a Ishtar and Orca so this could all become very interesting indeed.
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.27 12:26:00 - [18] Yep I have been training my covops alt for major exploration skills, only one more skill to get to L5, already has covops 5 as well. In anticipation I plan on getting some exploratory vessels established, fitted, and loaded with colonisation tools (pos, 2 months fuel, bpos, some minerals, backup ships, LOTS of probes) so we can ship out. I look forward to plopping my ass in a nice little section and going by my daily duties having fun with exploration (in the wormhole location), ratting, mining etc to my hearts content. Getting the spoils back to empire will be the hardest thing but depends a lot on how CCP chooses to structure the current debate regarding 1 and 2 way wormholes. Whilst I see a huge benefit to colonisation in 2 way wormholes I also see it as being a very large benefit to large alliances to bully their way through systems and establish strongholds so I am finding it tough to decide. Having to relocate every 1-2 months when fuel expires isn't actually a bad thing. I also have a really awesome high profit idea as well that I will be discussing with the EBANK guys rather than you donkeys.. The high profit idea occurs regardless of which way CCP takes wormhole exploration.
Auri Hella Downwind Trading Guild	Posted - 2009.01.27 12:27:00 - [19] Originally by: Joss Sparq I wish people could drop Outposts out there in those 2500 new systems. Not that they can (I believe) be made Soverign so probably not, of course. Still, it is nice to dream. Sovereignty is disabled for W-space so you'll have to keep dreaming I'm afraid As for the market fallout of this expansion, it's a bit too early to start predicting. We know next to nothing except how to find the systems (and that's limited knowledge as well at this point) and how wormholes will work. Things to base any speculation on will be what can be found in those systems, wether you can (reliably) take in capital ships or run a POS there (refueling looks to be a real pain with shifting entrances and connections). I expect major manipulation(s) as soon as details are released that make these points clearer.
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2009.01.27 12:29:00 - [20] Originally by: Ricdic Yep I have been training my covops alt for major exploration skills, only one more skill to get to L5, already has covops 5 as well. In anticipation I plan on getting some exploratory vessels established, fitted, and loaded with colonisation tools (pos, 2 months fuel, bpos, some minerals, backup ships, LOTS of probes) so we can ship out. I look forward to plopping my ass in a nice little section and going by my daily duties having fun with exploration (in the wormhole location), ratting, mining etc to my hearts content. Getting the spoils back to empire will be the hardest thing but depends a lot on how CCP chooses to structure the current debate regarding 1 and 2 way wormholes. Whilst I see a huge benefit to colonisation in 2 way wormholes I also see it as being a very large benefit to large alliances to bully their way through systems and establish strongholds so I am finding it tough to decide. Having to relocate every 1-2 months when fuel expires isn't actually a bad thing. I also have a really awesome high profit idea as well that I will be discussing with the EBANK guys rather than you donkeys.. The high profit idea occurs regardless of which way CCP takes wormhole exploration. Did you read the dev-blog? The chances for you to actually be able to pull that off are very thin. Everybody has already said they want to do that.
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2009.01.27 12:31:00 - [21] Originally by: Auri Hella wether you can (reliably) take in capital ships or run a POS there (refueling looks to be a real pain with shifting entrances and connections). You can't reliably take capitals into a wormhole. The chances for you to get a capital through one are very small. Then leave alone the fact that the new NPC's will be really hard, meaning that chances are you will have to bring friends. That's not even considering getting back out again!
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.01.27 13:05:00 - [22] The way talk sounds, my guess is that each worm hole will have a set mass limit amount. Meaning once it reaches that limit amount the entrance collapses. The big question is now, will this limiter take into account cargo as well?
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2009.01.27 13:21:00 - [23] Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 27/01/2009 13:26:03 I don't think I can scramble fast enough to rename the Orca the Deep Space Exploration vessel. /me rekits an alt to pilot one. Lessee now... 2x Expanded Cargo II's,,, check. 3x Cargohold Optimizer Rigs,,, check. Cloak,,, check. Tractor Beams,,, check. Cyno Field Generator,,, check. Carrier,,, check. POS and 2 months fuel (minimum),,, check. Relevant exploration/combat ships in maintenance bays,,, check. Just need those orca skills now...
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2009.01.27 16:08:00 - [24] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs I don't think I can scramble fast enough to rename the Orca the Deep Space Exploration vessel. /me rekits an alt to pilot one. Lessee now... 2x Expanded Cargo II's,,, check. 3x Cargohold Optimizer Rigs,,, check. Cloak,,, check. Tractor Beams,,, check. Cyno Field Generator,,, check. Carrier,,, check. POS and 2 months fuel (minimum),,, check. Relevant exploration/combat ships in maintenance bays including: Hulk, Covops cloaked crane, buzzard, Raven, Inty,,, check. Just need those orca skills now... Cynos won't work in wormhole systems and you can't jumpdrive in but you're probably absolutely correct about the Orca being the ship of choice for deep space exploration. EVE-Tanking.com - Helping you keep your hull in-tact.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.01.27 17:26:00 - [25] Agreed, the array is going to make the Orca the win for this expansion. While you might be able to carry much in it, you can carry a few support ships which should be more than enough for a small scale exploration OP to "live of the land"
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.01.27 20:04:00 - [26] Quote: I predict prices of implants will skyrocket leading up to, and after Apocrypha. The increased demand for +1 to +4 implants will cause the price for +5's to drop slightly however. I think so also... but because of the stockpiles and the ubercheapness of them now. The increase will be negligible. Quote: You can't reliably take capitals into a wormhole. The chances for you to get a capital through one are very small. Then leave alone the fact that the new NPC's will be really hard, meaning that chances are you will have to bring friends. That's not even considering getting back out again! dreads arent very good for pve.. exception being moros.. but the new npcs are nasty. They will switch targets depending on the heaviest hitter. So moros quickly loses his drones as he doesnt have remote rep. Carrier on the otherhand might have a problem keeping his fighters repped enough; eventually losing them. The battleships will be key in these new systems. Quote: Cyno Field Generator,,, check. Carrier,,, check. POS and 2 months fuel (minimum),,, check. Currently you cant jump a carrier from Querius to venal in 1 jump. They obviously will make this new wormhole system FAR away. The real question is if you can cyno in between the wormhole systems; or will they be far apart also.
Jason Edwards Internet Tough Guy	Posted - 2009.01.27 20:10:00 - [27] Quote: Yes. The existing Sisters launchers will all turn into the Sisters version of the "big" launcher. Any ship which could use either launcher previously can use the big version under the new system, and as it's better we decided that that's what we'd give everyone. The "little" exploration-only launcher uses a lot less CPU but is considerably less useful. Reference Thusly. I can say. Yaay lets hope people try to dump them :) ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.01.27 21:02:00 - [28] Whats interesting is the 12,000,000kg cut off. I know its not set in stone, but I'd imagine that is going to be a good rough estimate of the amount of mass you can send one way or the other. Was also noted that it will be encouraged to utilize the ship bay to circumvent the mass restrictions. Orca finds another niche.
Astarte Nosferatu Abrivianius Manufacturing Corporation	Posted - 2009.01.27 21:05:00 - [29] Originally by: Jason Edwards Quote: I predict prices of implants will skyrocket leading up to, and after Apocrypha. The increased demand for +1 to +4 implants will cause the price for +5's to drop slightly however. I think so also... but because of the stockpiles and the ubercheapness of them now. The increase will be negligible. /me waits for someone to take advantage of the cheap and plentiful implants currently available to buy them all up, hoard them till patch and resell them at an inflated price .
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2009.01.27 22:29:00 - [30] Quote: Cynos won't work in wormhole systems and you can't jumpdrive in but you're probably absolutely correct about the Orca being the ship of choice for deep space exploration. Linkage? I'm not saying you will definately be able to throw a cyno on, but I've seen nothing to say you definately won't. Quote: Currently you cant jump a carrier from Querius to venal in 1 jump. They obviously will make this new wormhole system FAR away. The real question is if you can cyno in between the wormhole systems; or will they be far apart also. I don't see why obviously they should have to be so far away from the actual system. CCP haven't exactly adhered to real-world physics biblically yet in EVE, and while I can understand some unreachables, I can't see why they should all be like this. It'll be hard enough guessing where you can come in and out of, let alone maintaining logistics of things in there.

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