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Rodmill
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Posted - 2009.01.28 23:36:00 -
[1]
Hi ; Doing missions for federation navy for about one month and within a week i ll be able to accept a lvl 4 mission from a Q18 agent.. And for that i am training to fly a battleship ( with required modules and T2 of these modules ) and according to EFT with the skill training plan complete i ll have around 300 dps and 400 defense. Now my question is : According to some ppl flying a battleship with my current skill points ( 2.5 m ) is too early and passsing to lvl4's is a mistake. according to some 200 dps is more than enough and domi is not a skill intensive ship and can be used for lvl 4s by a low sp character..
So which one is right ? I want to finance everything else with missions and as far as i know lvl 4s are quite a jump and give much more isk/hour. Thank you for your answers and i am aware that i am asking too much questions about that subject....
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.01.29 00:51:00 -
[2]
A Dominix with sentry drones can complete certain missions easily, for example:
- Blockade
- Right Hand of Zazzamatazz
These missions (work on your own list) are "Encounter" as opposed to "Deadspace" missions, and you can warp in at any range you choose. Then you can warp out, repair, warp back in again.
Other missions such as Cargo Delivery and Recon (x of 3) will allow you to complete the mission without having to blow stuff up. A fast frigate or shuttle is enough for Cargo Delivery and the first two Recon missions. The third recon requires a ship with a good tank (you warp into a toxic cloud which sends waves of damage against your ship).
Some missions such as "Worlds Collide" are very hard to complete in a drone boat, and you'll be forced to rely on hybrid weapons fitted to your ship.
Of course, what you could do in order to make things easier for yourself is find a low-SP friend who flies a Drake. Get them to tank the mission while you blow stuff up.
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Dors Venabily
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Posted - 2009.01.29 00:55:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Dors Venabily on 29/01/2009 00:59:14 Hello this is my 2 cents for you.
Dominix isnt really too skill intensive a t2 cap rechargers and hardeners are prettymuch all you really need although t2 LARs are good. The question here is that although you probably will be able to finish the level 4s it will take you such a long time you would be probably earning more money by doing lvl 3s real quick.
My alt flys domi and has 2.7 mil in drones alone and stil think its too slow :D So there you have it. Also some level 4 mission will be a challenge and risky for you in such a low sp situation so when you decide to do them pls have insured ship and some extra cash for fittings. Good luck
What the above poster said get a buddy in drake and you both should be making more then as you both skill up you can split up or just continue double teaming. I have a feeling that actually 2 players are useful in lvl 4s for lower sp toons since it provides the extra dps and tank. Also both of you fit remote repping capability to help each other out if you aggro to many mobs for your tank to handle. In this situation you might also consider fiting tractors and salvagers on your Domi and salvage while your drone and your buddy kill. save time increases profits.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.01.29 01:08:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Dors Venabily In this situation you might also consider fiting tractors and salvagers on your Domi and salvage while your drone and your buddy kill. save time increases profits.
Been there, done that. It's faster to clear the mission in DPS ships, then come back with salvage boats (destroyers or Hurricanes). Dominix with rails and sentry drones is a wonderful complement to a Drake with heavy tanking gear.
If the Dominix pilot specialises in salvage (ie: come back with a hurricane with 5 tractors, 3 salvagers, salvage tackle rigs), the Drake pilot can get into the next mission, establish aggro, kill the scram frigates, allowing the Dominix pilot to just hop in and start blowing stuff up. Make sure to bookmark a wreck in each room, come back to salvage after the mission has been handed in.
You simply can't salvage as quickly in a battleship as you can in a specialised destroyer or Hurricane. You can't kill stuff as quickly if your battleship has salvage gear instead of weapons. The only advantage is that you don't perceive as much downtime between finishing one mission and starting the next.
A mission-running battleship can't move to tractor range as quickly, doesn't have as many slots free for salvage gear, and has other uses for rig slots other than salvage tackle.
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Dors Venabily
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Posted - 2009.01.29 01:30:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Dors Venabily on 29/01/2009 01:30:16 Well he has only 2.5 mill sp total so i have a feeling that if his buddy is at similar level in a drake they will take longer to actually do the mission then to salvage. For a skilled guy Yeah i agree with you completely specialised salvage ship is the way to go but his skills are realy low hence that might be something to work towards to but for now he might be better off in the setup i described.
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Terminus Vindictus
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Posted - 2009.01.29 02:20:00 -
[6]
I think with 400 defense in a BS you'll get chewed up pretty fast in L4's. And with only 200 DPS output, you won't kill anything fast. My advice is to either get another ship, upgrade to better modules, or simply wait to train longer so you can increase both your DPS and your defense. You should be shooting for roughly 600 defense and 400 DPS output as a minimum for starting L4's. Otherwise you'll have a really difficult time.
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An Alt
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Posted - 2009.01.29 02:30:00 -
[7]
I agree with the above poster--
You should be able to get better then thatin 2xlar domi-
You might try 2 med cap injector instead of one large-
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.01.29 03:29:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Terminus Vindictus I think with 400 defense in a BS you'll get chewed up pretty fast in L4's. And with only 200 DPS output, you won't kill anything fast.
Yet another reason to start level 4s with a friend :)
One focusses on tanking skills, the other on long-range DPS (eg: Sentry Drones in a Dominix, hybrid weapons in a Rokh, cruise missiles in a Raven, beam lasers in an Apocalypse).
I'll contribute my favourite tactic again, which is to have someone in a Drake with overdrive injectors and afterburner, along with your DPS ship of choice. The Drake picks up aggo, orbits the warp in point at 50km, while the DPS pilot arrives later and just shoots things. At 50km range, tracking is not an issue.
The key is for the Drake pilot to move quickly (T1 passive shield tank, cap-stable afterburner, overdrive injectors) and keep 60+km away from the battleships.
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Terminus Vindictus
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Posted - 2009.01.29 04:20:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Yet another reason to start level 4s with a friend :)
Yes, except at that point you nullify the ISK/hour advantage of running L4's, so he might as well stick with running L3's faster solo.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.01.29 06:22:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Tippia on 29/01/2009 06:23:03 There is no SP requirement for running L4s — anyone who discusses the game in those terms is stuck in a classic "level-based MMO" mode of thinking (which has nothing to do with EVE) and has no idea what (s)he is talking about.
What you should be looking at is equipment, and equipment effectiveness, not SP. Can you build a ship that tanks the 400+ DPS you'll see in L4s? Can you build a ship that delivers the 300+ DPS damage output required to bring down the battleship NPCs in a reasonable amount of time? If so, you can do L4s. In fact, you can do L4s with a lot less, but it won't be fast (but that's just a personal preference that only you can decide on).
Neither of those two requirements have any specific SP connected to them, nor do they require T2 or faction/deadspace equipment.
In addition, you don't need battleships to do L4s — they're just the easy/low-skilled choice if you want to combine that tanking ability with that kind of damage output. Any ship that can deliver the same numbers will do just as fine (in fact, smaller ships will often be better since they drastically reduce the amount of DPS you need to tank, so you can skew their fittings more towards damage). ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.01.29 06:46:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Terminus Vindictus Yes, except at that point you nullify the ISK/hour advantage of running L4's, so he might as well stick with running L3's faster solo.
I'd agree with you except that the bounty on 1 battleship (700k to 1M ISK) is worth the combined bounties from most level 3 missions. If a low SP tank/spank duo can kill 1 battleship faster than they can clear a level 3 mission, they've more than broken even. Heck, the bounties/awards from L4 missions make it worth taking another low-SP friend flying an Osprey or Exequror for remote repping!
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Van Disaster
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Posted - 2009.01.29 06:50:00 -
[12]
I run l4s in a Myrmidon ( I could train for BS, but I'd rather train other things first ), it's got some terrible DPS figure since it's almost entirely tank - and not enough drone bandwidth for a full set of heavy/sentries, although I at least have ~1m in drones & T2 mediums - but it's still better cash than l3s. Quite a lot of l4s don't have that many BS npcs so you can just plough through most of the ships like a l3, but just the reward is enough to make up for the BS killing time, let alone the bounty too.
400 dps incoming & only 200 out is going to get the OP killed though. I've set the Myrm up for ~900dps tank vs serpentis at some point & had to warp out of the Assault, for instance. Taking 3 mins to kill a BS when there's 14 of them shooting you does little to help your tank.
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Irdia Freelancer
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Posted - 2009.01.29 09:48:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Rodmill According to some ppl flying a battleship with my current skill points ( 2.5 m ) is too early and passsing to lvl4's is a mistake. according to some 200 dps is more than enough and domi is not a skill intensive ship and can be used for lvl 4s by a low sp character..
Fly some lvl 4's and learn for yourself. Most lvl 4's if you read the survival guide you can complete with a domi solo with your training. If you get excessive agro on some mission you may have trouble. There are a few missions that could give trouble.
WC4 in a domi? - 1st pocket you can sit out of range and deploy sentry drones and destroy everything - whats so hard about that? - 2nd pocket you will get pocket agro if attack the 2 spy frigates with your drones - solution set your drones to passive mode. Now you can attack each group one at a time and destroy each group seperately. The fit described can handle each group, destroy the spy frigates last. - Last pocket you can sometimes get all 3 groups to agro (<2% in my experience as a fairly new player), more common is to get 2 groups agro, most common is to have one group agro. Instead of attacking where you warp in, move away till over 10km (from non-agro'd ships), then deploy drones to kill agro'd ships. If you have 2x LAR you should handle 2 groups agro fine, only having a problem with full agro. Even full agro with 2x LAR you should have enough time to kill the scrambling frigates as long as you dont lag too much - takes a long time to drop your tank with 2x LAR's.
I used to complete new Frontiers in a harbi with all its neut towers. If your careful you can achieve much.
Some say WC4 will be a problem? Comes down to how you tackle it. If your careful Rodmill you will do fine.
Some others to watch out for. Blockade with bloodraiders as they have neut/nos that can suck an active tank dry - take out the frigates first so can warp out if needed. The mining misappropriation mission can do surprisingly heavy damage with those few amarr ships and they have some nos/neut too.
For most lvl 4's I run 1x LAR and heat sinks (I fly amarr ships) and 2x amarr energized adaptives (omni tank) so I dont need to bother changing fittings between missions. Most sema to exagerate the difficulty of lvl 4 missions. Take them carefully and you should be fine. Initially read the survival guide so you know what you'll be facing. Realise the guide was mostly written by raven ship owners - ie they sit miles off and fire from long range. If your careful you can get less agro than the guide suggests by not firing from such long range, but at the expense of taking more time.
1st rule of doing missions with low skill points, clean out the frigates that can warp scramble you first so you can exit. If looking dangerous, align to warp out.
The domi is a solid tank and cheap. Is a number of lvl 4 missions where the reward/bonus/bounty/loot/salv/lp will easily exceed the cost of your domi so its well worth doing lvl 4 missions. Some of these missions will initially take you over 2 hours to complete/salv/loot so you may want to stop part way, go back with a salvage boat, then finish with your domi. You may lose a few ships, but you will gain the isk to replace very quickly and you will learn fast from your actions. I've lost 4 ships in lvl 4's in bit over 6 months - all 4x I had some lag. 2x with 1x LAR where my ship lagged so I lacked the gank to destoy the scrambling frigates where previously I had done fine. 1x with 2x LAR's and again lagged and the tank died. The last time my tank was able to handle over 1300 dps and agro'd the whole pocket - had killed over 1/2 the enemy (23 ships) with shields recovering when the shields suddenly dropped from 47% to 8% (over 7500 drop with over 40% resists --> over 13000 raw damage - assume lag). Each case I lost a ship but learnt from the experience so even if hit lag again, I wont lose another ship in the same way.
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Rodmill
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Posted - 2009.01.29 13:33:00 -
[14]
Thanks for replies ; I have a 23 days of skill plan for a fully fitted domi and as i said earlier i ll spend this time with doing lvl3 missions which gives me 10-15m isk per day.I wont be having troubles with buying the ship and fitting it with a basic calculation But since i dont have a buddy to tank the missions for me and i am planning to solo them most of the plan's time goes to the training of t2 hardeners and t2 large armor repairer. ( 18 days to be exact ) But how is it possible to increase the drones dps to 400 or 500 ? I already have drone interfacing at lvl 4 , using t2 heavy drones only shouldnt make that much difference.. |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.01.29 13:50:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Rodmill But how is it possible to increase the drones dps to 400 or 500 ? I already have drone interfacing at lvl 4 , using t2 heavy drones only shouldnt make that much difference..
The thing about T2 drones is that, not only do they do more base damage, they also get additional support skills that further improve their damage output. The following skills at lvl V will give you 360dps from just a full set of T1 Ogres deployed from a Domi:
Drone Interfacing V Heavy Drone Operation V Gallente Battleship V
If you step up to Ogre II:s, you can get 475dps of pure drone damage from the following skills:
Drone Interfacing V Heavy Drone Operation V Gallente Battleship V Gallente Drone Specialization V
The T2 drones themselves add 20% damage, and on top of that, the drone specialisation skill adds 2% per level (so 10% at V) so that's a 32% more all in all. |
Rodmill
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Posted - 2009.01.29 16:56:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Tippia The thing about T2 drones is that, not only do they do more base damage, they also get additional support skills that further improve their damage output. The following skills at lvl V will give you 360dps from just a full set of T1 Ogres deployed from a Domi:
Drone Interfacing V Heavy Drone Operation V Gallente Battleship V
If you step up to Ogre II:s, you can get 475dps of pure drone damage from the following skills:
Drone Interfacing V Heavy Drone Operation V Gallente Battleship V Gallente Drone Specialization V
The T2 drones themselves add 20% damage, and on top of that, the drone specialisation skill adds 2% per level (so 10% at V) so that's a 32% more all in all.
With a quick calibration to eft and i got 450+ with t2 ogres..But since ogres are slow , do you recommend to train for sentry t2 or heavy t2 drones.Either way i have 2 months of training ahead of me
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:28:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Rodmill With a quick calibration to eft and i got 450+ with t2 ogres..But since ogres are slow , do you recommend to train for sentry t2 or heavy t2 drones.
Depends how you intend to use them, I suppose. If you want to turtle-tank (sit still and let everything come to you), sentries will be the better choice, I think. Bring long- and short-range sentries and deploy according to your needs and some light/mediums for the small crap buzzing around you.
Personally, since I have taken a speed-tanking approach and thus fly all over the place (and also salvage on the go), I prefer my drones to be as mobile as I am, even if they're slow, simply so I don't have to go fetch them all the time. Therefore, I go with Heavies. |
Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2009.01.29 17:42:00 -
[18]
Sentry Drones and Light drones should cover all your bases. |
Rodmill
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Posted - 2009.01.29 18:03:00 -
[19]
So what do you recommend for getting my armor value higher ? As far as i know all i could do about it is getting T2 armor reppers and T2 armor hardeners but with these i can get tank up to 441 dps ( with cap stable ) using 4 mission specific hardeners 2 LAR and 1 EANM all T2 on lows. There are lots of skills like "kinetic armor compensation" but they all seems to be only increasing the passive hardeners or active hardeners when they are inactive. Dont know much about it but it seemed unfair to me that almost all shield tankers can benefit from these kind of skills but there is none for active armor tankers..
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nether void
Caldari Shrapnel Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.29 19:23:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Rodmill So what do you recommend for getting my armor value higher ? As far as i know all i could do about it is getting T2 armor reppers and T2 armor hardeners but with these i can get tank up to 441 dps ( with cap stable ) using 4 mission specific hardeners 2 LAR and 1 EANM all T2 on lows. There are lots of skills like "kinetic armor compensation" but they all seems to be only increasing the passive hardeners or active hardeners when they are inactive. Dont know much about it but it seemed unfair to me that almost all shield tankers can benefit from these kind of skills but there is none for active armor tankers..
Since you can fit mid slots with almost all cap rechargers, you should be able to burst another LAR II for the beginning of fights. This should put you at 400/600 tank. This is what my buddy in a Domi drone set up does.
The only thing he hates now about the Domi drone thing is there's no upgrade for drone users. The Domi is kind of the end of the line. Guns and missilers have T2 versions. Drone users have the Sin, but it's a black ops ship, so meh. |
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Naran Darkmood
Gallente MC Cubed 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.29 20:07:00 -
[21]
If you can fit the following, you are fine in any lvl4 mission, as long as you know how to manage aggro:
[Dominix, Mission Low tech] Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Armor Thermic Hardener I Armor Thermic Hardener I Armor Kinetic Hardener I Armor Kinetic Hardener I Internal Force Field Array I
Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array
Dual 250mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L Dual 250mm Prototype I Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L Drone Link Augmentor I Drone Link Augmentor I [empty high slot]
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
Ogre I x6 Garde I x5 Hammerhead I x6 Hobgoblin I x6
switch hardeners according to rat type you are facing and start upgrading to t2 as soon as possible. This setup will not run the dual LAR forever, but running one and pulsing the 2nd as needed should do the trick. Go softer on tank more into gank as you know how to handle aggro. I'm running with the following setup for some time now:
[Dominix, Mission Domi] Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Damage Control II Large Armor Repairer II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II
Cap Recharger II Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Omnidirectional Tracking Link I 100MN Afterburner II
Drone Link Augmentor I Drone Link Augmentor I 350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L 350mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
Auxiliary Nano Pump I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
Ogre II x6 Hammerhead II x6 Garde II x6
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Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2009.01.29 20:29:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Naran Darkmood Fittings
That first one is tech 1 tanktastic, but a very good recommendation for the newbies. _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony Item Database
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