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Just realized Heavy Assault Missiles are the suxxx

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Dani SP Rupture Farms Mining	Posted - 2009.01.30 00:25:00 - [1] Edited by: Dani SP on 30/01/2009 00:27:12 Edited by: Dani SP on 30/01/2009 00:26:13 so I happily trained to HAM hoping that they would make a great advantage from my previous Standard Light Missiles setup. I fitted the Drake with 7x 'Arbalest' HAM launchers and a mix of Terror/Hellfire missiles and... the crap!! results are even worse than using light missiles!! The range is stupid (less than 10km) and damage is lower! I guess I will fly back to Jita and resell all the sh*t. Should I train to regular Heavy Missiles instead? I am making L2 missions and ships are not so big, that maybe explains why Heavy Assault Missiles suck so much? Oh and will HAM be useful for L3-L4 missions? (so I will keep the modules instead of reselling)
J Valkor Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.01.30 00:31:00 - [2] The damage isn't lower.
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2009.01.30 00:31:00 - [3] Originally by: Dani SP Edited by: Dani SP on 30/01/2009 00:27:12 Edited by: Dani SP on 30/01/2009 00:26:13 so I happily trained to HAM hoping that they would make a great advantage from my previous Standard Light Missiles setup. I fitted the Drake with 7x 'Arbalest' HAM launchers and a mix of Terror/Hellfire missiles and... the crap!! results are even worse than using light missiles!! The range is stupid (less than 10km) and damage is lower! I guess I will fly back to Jita and resell all the sht. Should I train to regular Heavy Missiles instead? I am making L2 missions and ships are not so big, that maybe explains why Heavy Assault Missiles suck so much? Oh and will HAM be useful for L3-L4 missions? (so I will keep the modules instead of reselling) HAM are PVP weapons, better DPS for lower Range. Go Heavy Missles for Missions. Btw my 2. Char with 82k SP in Missles reaches 12km with Hams... ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by:* Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Graalum Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.30 00:33:00 - [4] Originally by: The Djego Originally by: Dani SP Edited by: Dani SP on 30/01/2009 00:27:12 Edited by: Dani SP on 30/01/2009 00:26:13 so I happily trained to HAM hoping that they would make a great advantage from my previous Standard Light Missiles setup. I fitted the Drake with 7x 'Arbalest' HAM launchers and a mix of Terror/Hellfire missiles and... the crap!! results are even worse than using light missiles!! The range is stupid (less than 10km) and damage is lower! I guess I will fly back to Jita and resell all the sh*t. Should I train to regular Heavy Missiles instead? I am making L2 missions and ships are not so big, that maybe explains why Heavy Assault Missiles suck so much? Oh and will HAM be useful for L3-L4 missions? (so I will keep the modules instead of reselling) HAM are PVP weapons, better DPS for lower Range. Go Heavy Missles for Missions. Btw my 2. Char with 82k SP in Missles reaches 12km with Hams... i've never actually seen hams fitted on a pvp ship.
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2009.01.30 00:34:00 - [5] Originally by: Graalum Originally by: The Djego Originally by: Dani SP Edited by: Dani SP on 30/01/2009 00:27:12 Edited by: Dani SP on 30/01/2009 00:26:13 so I happily trained to HAM hoping that they would make a great advantage from my previous Standard Light Missiles setup. I fitted the Drake with 7x 'Arbalest' HAM launchers and a mix of Terror/Hellfire missiles and... the crap!! results are even worse than using light missiles!! The range is stupid (less than 10km) and damage is lower! I guess I will fly back to Jita and resell all the sht. Should I train to regular Heavy Missiles instead? I am making L2 missions and ships are not so big, that maybe explains why Heavy Assault Missiles suck so much? Oh and will HAM be useful for L3-L4 missions? (so I will keep the modules instead of reselling) HAM are PVP weapons, better DPS for lower Range. Go Heavy Missles for Missions. Btw my 2. Char with 82k SP in Missles reaches 12km with Hams... i've never actually seen hams fitted on a pvp ship. I do on Drakes and Sacs, and they are fare better than Heavys there... ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by:* Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
NoNah	Posted - 2009.01.30 00:34:00 - [6] Originally by: Dani SP Edited by: Dani SP on 30/01/2009 00:27:12 Edited by: Dani SP on 30/01/2009 00:26:13 so I happily trained to HAM hoping that they would make a great advantage from my previous Standard Light Missiles setup. I fitted the Drake with 7x 'Arbalest' HAM launchers and a mix of Terror/Hellfire missiles and... the crap!! results are even worse than using light missiles!! The range is stupid (less than 10km) and damage is lower! I guess I will fly back to Jita and resell all the sh*t. Should I train to regular Heavy Missiles instead? I am making L2 missions and ships are not so big, that maybe explains why Heavy Assault Missiles suck so much? Oh and will HAM be useful for L3-L4 missions? (so I will keep the modules instead of reselling) No, level 2 missions doesn't explain why they are bad. Your complete and utter lack of understanding for game mechanics does however. Point is, torps and torps are both excellent tools for both pvp and pve - but you have to understand they're not like your normal heavy missiles of Locking, pressing f1-f7 and set an alarm clock for when the foe might have taken damage. Look at the missile guide, once or twice then repeat until you grasp the basics. Close range guns are not optimal for mission for any faction when you lack skillpoints - for caldari it's really the only time you need skillpoints. Start looking at javelins, Missile Bombardment and Missile projection. Range rigs, target painter, rigs, drones, smartbombs etc etc. And more importantly, what tool to use for what job. Wether it's a level 2 or level 4, if you'll be facing either lots of small or lots of large foes - medium sized weapons is rarely a good idea. Missiles often work, but that doesn't mean you get instant gratification the second you can fit one to your ship. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 938466
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.01.30 00:49:00 - [7] My understanding is HAMs don't benefit from the skills that make cruiser sized missiles viable against frigs because they are classed as "unguided".
Ryoken McKeon	Posted - 2009.01.30 00:53:00 - [8] Erm...I do almost 600dps with my HAM drake....and why are you using light missiles on a battlecruiser? Stop insulting the ship.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.01.30 01:01:00 - [9] You should be using Assault Missile Launchers in L2 missions, not Heavy Assault Missile Launchers.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.01.30 01:05:00 - [10] Originally by: Gypsio III You should be using Assault Missile Launchers in L2 missions, not Heavy Assault Missile Launchers.

Psiri	Posted - 2009.01.30 01:20:00 - [11] i've never actually seen hams fitted on a pvp ship. Then you have no PvP experience to speak of, period.
De Guantanamo	Posted - 2009.01.30 01:43:00 - [12] Originally by: Psiri i've never actually seen hams fitted on a pvp ship. Then you have no PvP experience to speak of, period. Don't need the quote to know that...he's from ATLAS...nuff said.
Stuart Price Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.01.30 02:20:00 - [13] In before Gypsio III. Oh crap. Gyps, do you have a program running that alerts you to any threads containing the words 'Drake' or 'missiles'? You'd think the wider community would have started listening to you by now.
Mou'adib Gallente Fluffy Rabbit Killers	Posted - 2009.01.30 02:39:00 - [14] Originally by: De Guantanamo Originally by: Psiri i've never actually seen hams fitted on a pvp ship. Then you have no PvP experience to speak of, period. Don't need the quote to know that...he's from ATLAS...nuff said. rolf
Shereza	Posted - 2009.01.30 03:00:00 - [15] Originally by: Dani SP I fitted the Drake with 7x 'Arbalest' HAM launchers and a mix of Terror/Hellfire missiles and... the crap!! results are even worse than using light missiles!! The range is stupid (less than 10km) and damage is lower! In the event, the unlikely event at that, that this is not a troll thread, I will make one suggestion. Train up your missile skills. The base range for heavy assault missiles is 9km and the only way you can have under 10km range with them is if your missile projection and bombardment skills are at a combined level of 1 or lower. Originally by: TraininVain My understanding is HAMs don't benefit from the skills that make cruiser sized missiles viable against frigs because they are classed as "unguided". They don't benefit from guided missile precision but I do believe they benefit from target navigation predction. "10% decrease per level in factor of target's velocity for all missiles." Basically all missiles have a skill to deal with (explosion) velocity but only guided missiles get one for size (explosion radius). ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.
Joss Sparq Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.30 04:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Gypsio III You should be using Assault Missile Launchers in L2 missions, not Heavy Assault Missile Launchers. And quite possibly on a Caracal: because as far as I know, the kinetic damage bonus on the Drake doesn't apply to the Light (Assault Launcher launched) Missiles, only Heavy and Heavy Assault Missiles.
KISOGOKU	Posted - 2009.01.30 07:28:00 - [17] Altought i would recommend caracal for lvl 2s No ,unbonused drake with 7 launchers still better than caracal with 5 bonused launchers (caracal with cruiser lvl 4 ;5 launchers * 1.2 bonus = 6 launchers .Drake has one more launcher advantage Originally by: Joss Sparq And quite possibly on a Caracal: because as far as I know, the kinetic damage bonus on the Drake doesn't apply to the Light (Assault Launcher launched) Missiles, only Heavy and Heavy Assault Missiles.
Embarcadero	Posted - 2009.01.30 07:40:00 - [18] Originally by: Graalum i've never actually seen hams fitted on a pvp ship. Welcome to EVE. There is a lot of cerberus pilots fitting HAMLs for pvp and even some sacrilege pilots do it.
Deva Blackfire Viziam	Posted - 2009.01.30 07:49:00 - [19] Originally by: Dani SP Edited by: Dani SP on 30/01/2009 00:27:12 Edited by: Dani SP on 30/01/2009 00:26:13 so I happily trained to HAM hoping that they would make a great advantage from my previous Standard Light Missiles setup. I fitted the Drake with 7x 'Arbalest' HAM launchers and a mix of Terror/Hellfire missiles and... the crap!! results are even worse than using light missiles!! The range is stupid (less than 10km) and damage is lower! I guess I will fly back to Jita and resell all the sht. Should I train to regular Heavy Missiles instead? I am making L2 missions and ships are not so big, that maybe explains why Heavy Assault Missiles suck so much? Oh and will HAM be useful for L3-L4 missions? (so I will keep the modules instead of reselling) Your skills sir, they are sht. Also HAMs are mainly PVP weapon not PVE.
Lego Maniac Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.30 08:05:00 - [20] Originally by: Dani SP Edited by: Dani SP on 30/01/2009 00:27:12 Edited by: Dani SP on 30/01/2009 00:26:13 so I happily trained to HAM hoping that they would make a great advantage from my previous Standard Light Missiles setup. I fitted the Drake with 7x 'Arbalest' HAM launchers and a mix of Terror/Hellfire missiles and... the crap!! results are even worse than using light missiles!! The range is stupid (less than 10km) and damage is lower! I guess I will fly back to Jita and resell all the sh*t. Should I train to regular Heavy Missiles instead? I am making L2 missions and ships are not so big, that maybe explains why Heavy Assault Missiles suck so much? Oh and will HAM be useful for L3-L4 missions? (so I will keep the modules instead of reselling) Heavy Assault Missiles just realized you are the suxxx

Astal Atlar Caldari Bulgarian Experienced Crackers Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2009.01.30 11:15:00 - [21] Quote: Erm...I do almost 600dps with my HAM drake....and why are you using light missiles on a battlecruiser? Stop insulting the ship this is not true but.. To the point ham are really pvp weapon but can be used to rat or make missions but on sertain ships.Use them on Sacriliege Cerberus Caracal,at drake they are useless drake does not have bonuses that work well with them. On sacriliege you easily get 20km without rigs and ect.On cerberus you for for 35-40 depending on skills not using rigs too.In fact ham cerberus is awesome ratting ship.But for pvp i will fit HAM only on my Sacriliege honestly with the awesome tank you just go close and realease pain,stupid curses and pilgrims die easily to your sacriliege even rapier and huggin if you can get close in time before they 2x web you.
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2009.01.30 11:36:00 - [22] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Dani SP Edited by: Dani SP on 30/01/2009 00:27:12 Edited by: Dani SP on 30/01/2009 00:26:13 so I happily trained to HAM hoping that they would make a great advantage from my previous Standard Light Missiles setup. I fitted the Drake with 7x 'Arbalest' HAM launchers and a mix of Terror/Hellfire missiles and... the crap!! results are even worse than using light missiles!! The range is stupid (less than 10km) and damage is lower! I guess I will fly back to Jita and resell all the sht. Should I train to regular Heavy Missiles instead? I am making L2 missions and ships are not so big, that maybe explains why Heavy Assault Missiles suck so much? Oh and will HAM be useful for L3-L4 missions? (so I will keep the modules instead of reselling) Your skills sir, they are sht. Also HAMs are mainly PVP weapon not PVE. I was doing lvl3s no problem with mildly refitted ham drake, mids were AB, medium shield booster, TP, 2x invu, LSE iirc. Worked rather well. As for dps counts, its closer to 700 than 600 if you count in drones. But thats with rages so obviously in pvp situations. Something OP should try if his so far achievement is doing lvl2 missions in a battlecruiser after palying the game long enough to actually train for a t2 medium sized weapon.
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2009.01.30 11:38:00 - [23] Originally by: Astal Atlar Quote: Erm...I do almost 600dps with my HAM drake....and why are you using light missiles on a battlecruiser? Stop insulting the ship this is not true but.. To the point ham are really pvp weapon but can be used to rat or make missions but on sertain ships.Use them on Sacriliege Cerberus Caracal,at drake they are useless drake does not have bonuses that work well with them. On sacriliege you easily get 20km without rigs and ect. Seems to me you dont really know what you're talking about. Sacrilege has no range related bonus, just like drake. And saying they are useless on drake is funny. Still works great on both as long as youre not elite 0.0 200 man small roaming gang killing titans.
Dr Sheepbringer Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.30 11:48:00 - [24] Also, heavy missiles are designed for BIG ships, small ships will laugh at them. Light missiles on the other hand blow small ships to kingom come. So if you are shooting at frigates with heavies...no wonder the damage is utter crap.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.30 11:48:00 - [25] Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 30/01/2009 11:49:46 I use HAM's on my Drake, and they work pretty well on it. Its damage is very nice. That 600dps figure tho is all level V and highly unrealistic unless you have been in EVE a longe time. For the avarage Joe, expect around 500 dps. And that is still solid. At high level BC, I almost only use Terror missiles as the 25% bonus usually is better the the right damage. But! Even tho the Drake can fit a stupid super tank, don't, use BCU II's. They are needed. For reference, my PvP HAM Drake: [Drake, PvP HAM] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Power Diagnostic System II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Warp Scrambler II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Large Shield Extender II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Small Nosferatu II Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Warrior II x5 This fits easily as is, tho you can use a Damage Control II is wanted in place of the PDU II (you may need to use implants). This little puppy does great damage, and the weapon size is medium, so you can hit smaller stuff as well (AF's with AB may be hard, but thats why you carry drones). Also the MWD is importent, you need to get into range. Also, during trial and error, I have come to the conclusion that you should shave of 3km of the range given to you in EFT, this is due to missile accelerations.
Vampasha	Posted - 2009.01.30 12:18:00 - [26] Originally by: Dani SP Edited by: Dani SP on 30/01/2009 00:27:12 Edited by: Dani SP on 30/01/2009 00:26:13 so I happily trained to HAM hoping that they would make a great advantage from my previous Standard Light Missiles setup. I fitted the Drake with 7x 'Arbalest' HAM launchers and a mix of Terror/Hellfire missiles and... the crap!! results are even worse than using light missiles!! The range is stupid (less than 10km) and damage is lower! I guess I will fly back to Jita and resell all the sh*t. Should I train to regular Heavy Missiles instead? I am making L2 missions and ships are not so big, that maybe explains why Heavy Assault Missiles suck so much? Oh and will HAM be useful for L3-L4 missions? (so I will keep the modules instead of reselling) HAM does 25% more damage than standard heavy for cruiser sized targets. The range with max skills is 20km or 30km for long range missiles. They are used for solo pvp where the drake will fight within 24km due to range of its warp disruptor.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.01.30 12:58:00 - [27] Edited by: Akita T on 30/01/2009 12:59:48 Hey, give the newbie a break, he just doesn't know better yet And he IS a newbie, based on recent forum posts... I should know, I replied to some of them. He'll learn... eventually. Summarizing what people above already said, more than once : SHORT range weapons (heavy assault missiles being one of them) are bad for PvE on a low-skills (SP and RL) pilot for many different reasons... and HAMs are particularly bad against NPC targets below cruiser size. For L2 missions, even if the Drake has bonuses to Heavy Missiles, you should consider using Assault missile launchers (those that shoot LIGHT missiles) in case your missile support skills are lacking, because even with damage-bonused heavies you end up dealing less overall damage to the small NPCs. After you train Target Navigation Prediction and Guided Missile Precision to L4, then you can consider heavies again in L2 missions, but you should be ready for L3s by then anyway where you should use heavies. Of course, you would be best advised to also level up your drone skills, so you can use a full set of T2 light drones effectively.
Joss Sparq Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.30 13:17:00 - [28] Originally by: KISOGOKU Altought i would recommend caracal for lvl 2s No ,unbonused drake with 7 launchers still better than caracal with 5 bonused launchers (caracal with cruiser lvl 4 ;5 launchers * 1.2 bonus = 6 launchers .Drake has one more launcher advantage Originally by: Joss Sparq And quite possibly on a Caracal: because as far as I know, the kinetic damage bonus on the Drake doesn't apply to the Light (Assault Launcher launched) Missiles, only Heavy and Heavy Assault Missiles. Ah, right. Still, it is faster and more manoeuvrable so that'll probably increase completion times a bit.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.01.30 14:39:00 - [29] The Caracal also has some range advantage, but the Drake can always use 2 extra ~~BCUs~~ BCSs. Tank should not be an issue, but a Caracal with 2x BCS isn't all that "tanky" at all (not to mention using purger rigs on a Caracal would be a bloody waste), while a Drake with 4x BCSs and 3x purger (which you want on a Drake anyway later on) will not only far out-tank but also slightly out-damage the Caracal. Plus, you get the drones, never forget the drones, they deal some respectable damage too, on the Drake you get 5 lights, while on the Caracal... well, you get the idea. _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2009.01.30 14:46:00 - [30] Originally by: Akita T ~~BCUs~~ BCSs. Whats wrong with BCU? I mean nobody types Heavy Assault Ship as HAS to.



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