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John Grimm Amarr Rendili StarDrive Yards	Posted - 2009.01.30 20:54:00 - [1] Which one will you put on your Loladin, the True Sansha or Gallente Navy issue? True Sansha - 15km, but only 83% effectiveness w/ Marauders bonus. Gallente Navy - 14km, w/ 90% effectiveness bonused up. Which do i pick? My fit is 4x T2 Tachs + 3x HS, 1x Rep + 3 Hardeners of Choise and 3x Cap Recharges in the mids. I'm going for the cap stable fit because my attention wanders and i don't want to loss my ship to inattention.
Mag's MASS	Posted - 2009.01.30 21:44:00 - [2] Personally, I'd go for a Hakim's. I'm sure they have drop alot in price since the range nerf. (But don't quote me on that cause I haven't looked.)
ZW Dewitt	Posted - 2009.01.30 21:49:00 - [3] Paladin? Neither. Use tracking comps instead.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2009.01.30 21:59:00 - [4] Originally by: ZW Dewitt Paladin? Neither. Use tracking comps instead. I want to test more but I think this (unfortunately I lost my Pally due to drunkeness so testing will wait till I get a new one). First off you can toss a mid-slot cap recharger for a Tracking Comp (named if you can). I do this and I have yet to run out of cap. Not sure if it is completely cap stable using multis and running the repper but it will go a loooong time like that. Like I say I have never run out yet (although got the cap low enough to where it was starting to worry me a few times but still no trouble). I also have a tracking implant. Despite all that I cannot hit frigs for **** when they are in web range even if they are webbed (maybe at the very edge of web range and a T1 frig I occasionally zap one after 10-20 shots...one lucky hit is generally insta death to the frig or very near). So no joy there and my drones need to do the work. Cruisers are just shredded by my Pally and I am hard pressed to think of one ever getting close enough to need to be webbed anyway. Battleships that get close I hit fine with the tracking I have. In short, with the recent changes, I have found webs on the Pally to be a wasted and largely worthless "bonus". I have yet to run into a situation where I was thinking, "Wow! Good thing I had that web!"
Zaran Darkstar Divine Slaves	Posted - 2009.01.30 22:17:00 - [5] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: ZW Dewitt Paladin? Neither. Use tracking comps instead. I want to test more but I think this (unfortunately I lost my Pally due to drunkeness so testing will wait till I get a new one). First off you can toss a mid-slot cap recharger for a Tracking Comp (named if you can). I do this and I have yet to run out of cap. Not sure if it is completely cap stable using multis and running the repper but it will go a loooong time like that. Like I say I have never run out yet (although got the cap low enough to where it was starting to worry me a few times but still no trouble). I also have a tracking implant. Despite all that I cannot hit frigs for **** when they are in web range even if they are webbed (maybe at the very edge of web range and a T1 frig I occasionally zap one after 10-20 shots...one lucky hit is generally insta death to the frig or very near). So no joy there and my drones need to do the work. Cruisers are just shredded by my Pally and I am hard pressed to think of one ever getting close enough to need to be webbed anyway. Battleships that get close I hit fine with the tracking I have. In short, with the recent changes, I have found webs on the Pally to be a wasted and largely worthless "bonus". I have yet to run into a situation where I was thinking, "Wow! Good thing I had that web!" The web gives immencly better effective tracking compaired to a Tracking computer. I can even kill spider drones in my Paladin while they are on orbit around me. But of course you need a small "know-how" apart the web to do that.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2009.01.30 23:12:00 - [6] Originally by: Zaran Darkstar The web gives immencly better effective tracking compaired to a Tracking computer at close ranges. I can even kill spider drones in my Paladin while they are on orbit around me. But of course you need a small "know-how" apart the web to do that. Web is a MUST for Pulse/Blaster setups for Paladin/Kronos . Not sure what that sekkrit "know how" is but it seems to me you are shooting them with Pulse and I am using Tachs. Big difference.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.30 23:21:00 - [7] Originally by: Mag's Personally, I'd go for a Hakim's. I'm sure they have drop alot in price since the range nerf. (But don't quote me on that cause I haven't looked.) that leads to fitting issues. web is around a bil on contracts
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.01.31 00:03:00 - [8] Originally by: Zaran Darkstar Web is a MUST for Pulse/Blaster setups for Paladin/Kronos . No it's not. It's not even a nice-to-have, really, because anything you didn't asplode at range and can't track up close will get shredded by your drones. I still have a web on mine, simply because I just don't like wasting a bonus, no matter how ******ed a fit that might lead to (hurray for med blasters on my Ishtar!!!). On a blaster Kronos, I'd tend to agree... but lol at the concept of a blaster Kronos anyhow. How many missions is that going to be better than a rail fit? 2? 3?
Zaran Darkstar Divine Slaves	Posted - 2009.01.31 03:58:00 - [9] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: Zaran Darkstar Web is a MUST for Pulse/Blaster setups for Paladin/Kronos . No it's not. It's not even a nice-to-have, really, because anything you didn't asplode at range and can't track up close will get shredded by your drones. I still have a web on mine, simply because I just don't like wasting a bonus, no matter how ******ed a fit that might lead to (hurray for med blasters on my Ishtar!!!). On a blaster Kronos, I'd tend to agree... but lol at the concept of a blaster Kronos anyhow. How many missions is that going to be better than a rail fit? 2? 3? Web in Paladin gives you absolute security feeling. Even if the game crashes and lost your drones you know you can still kill those sturdy scrambling frigs and this is a very important facor wehn you are flying something you cannot afford to lose like a Paladin. In time you ll realise why web is so important. Keep using it. I started using it for the same reason as you and now i simply can't do without it. About Kronos with Blasters i agree that are useless. My alt uses Kronos. For the close range missions try the smaller large raills. They are almost like Pulses with a little worse tracking but much better optimal and greater falloff. With a couple of TCII and a web you can kill anything, The DPs are not that great but still sufficient.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.01.31 07:35:00 - [10] Originally by: Zaran Darkstar Web in Paladin gives you absolute security feeling. Even if the game crashes and lost your drones you know you can still kill those sturdy scrambling frigs and this is a very important facor wehn you are flying something you cannot afford to lose like a Paladin. In time you ll realise why web is so important. Keep using it. I started using it for the same reason as you and now i simply can't do without it. I tried to nuke a scrambling frig last mission with my Megapulse whilst the target was webbed and I had tracking script loaded in my TC. Wasn't happening. Had to get my drones out. It MIGHT have worked with dual webs, but then you're giving up almost 15 kilometers of optimal that's useful on ALL NPCs for the security of being able to gank the occasional scrambler that manages to get below your guns. Not worth it, imo. Originally by: Zaran Darkstar About Kronos with Blasters i agree that are useless. My alt uses Kronos. For the close range missions try the smaller large raills. They are almost like Pulses with a little worse tracking but much better optimal and greater falloff. With a couple of TCII and a web you can kill anything, The DPs are not that great but still sufficient. The bonus I'd like to see on the Kronos are: Hybrid turret damage + active armour bonus (so, basically, the Hype's bonuses) Hybrid optimal + Hybrid tracking bonus (would make rails absolutely awesome on it)
Arte AFK	Posted - 2009.01.31 08:22:00 - [11] Don't know if its cos I'm using mediums, but when I web a frig, the drones can't kill it as fast as if I don't web it and the drones can chase it, cutting down on transversal I guess? I don't bother with web anymore.
Leandro Salazar Better Dead Then Smeg	Posted - 2009.01.31 11:30:00 - [12] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 31/01/2009 11:36:19 Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 31/01/2009 11:31:19 If you are letting enough ships into your web range that having a web actually makes a difference, you are doing it wrong. For a ganktank missionrunner who knows his business, the web bonus on either Paladin or Kronos is a complete waste. Sensor booster to lock small targets at range faster, or more tracking comps, are much more useful. Even target painters are. Plus like the guy above me said, webs make it harder for your drones to hit frigs because transversal for them goes up when they orbit rather than pursue, while for example TPs help both your drones and your guns. I can see though how people who think permatanking is a good idea for missions also think webs are a good idea for missions And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
John Grimm Amarr Rendili StarDrive Yards	Posted - 2009.01.31 13:53:00 - [13] Originally by: Leandro Salazar I can see though how people who think permatanking is a good idea for missions also think webs are a good idea for missions You need to train Reading Comprehension ASAP. I said i need the cap stability because i normally do other stuff while playing EvE. As for the web, i asked which will be better on the paly, i hate to lose the use of a bonus on a 700mil ship, somehow it looks wasteful. As for my perfect fit it's this: [PvE [w/ Cap Booster & AB]] LOW: Reactor Control Unit II Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Damage Control II Amarr Navy Large Armor Repairer MED: Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer,Tracking Speed Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer,Tracking Speed Amarr Navy Heavy Capacitor Booster,Cap Booster 800 Domination 100MN Afterburner HIGH: Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser,Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser,Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser,Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser,Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I RIGS: Auxiliary Nano Pump I Auxiliary Nano Pump I DRONES: Hobgoblin II,5 Hammerhead II,5 DPS:771 But this needs attention which i can't pay.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.01.31 13:57:00 - [14] Originally by: John Grimm i hate to lose the use of a bonus on a 700mil ship, somehow it looks wasteful. Go PvP with it then. The web bonus is great there. Man, I wish I was rich enough for that.
Zaran Darkstar Divine Slaves	Posted - 2009.01.31 13:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: Zaran Darkstar Web in Paladin gives you absolute security feeling. Even if the game crashes and lost your drones you know you can still kill those sturdy scrambling frigs and this is a very important facor wehn you are flying something you cannot afford to lose like a Paladin. In time you ll realise why web is so important. Keep using it. I started using it for the same reason as you and now i simply can't do without it. I tried to nuke a scrambling frig last mission with my Megapulse whilst the target was webbed and I had tracking script loaded in my TC. Wasn't happening. Had to get my drones out. It MIGHT have worked with dual webs, but then you're giving up almost 15 kilometers of optimal that's useful on ALL NPCs for the security of being able to gank the occasional scrambler that manages to get below your guns. Not worth it, imo. You are doing it wrong but i can't tell you how to do it right because only a few people know this and in fact is something i discovered myself. I could prove you it is doable at any time. If you don't believe me you are free to come to a mission with me to witness it with your own eyes. I don't use any wierd officer or faction stuff ,well apart an Amarr navy armor rep, just T2. Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: Zaran Darkstar About Kronos with Blasters i agree that are useless. My alt uses Kronos. For the close range missions try the smaller large raills. They are almost like Pulses with a little worse tracking but much better optimal and greater falloff. With a couple of TCII and a web you can kill anything, The DPs are not that great but still sufficient. The bonus I'd like to see on the Kronos are: Hybrid turret damage + active armour bonus (so, basically, the Hype's bonuses) Hybrid optimal + Hybrid tracking bonus (would make rails absolutely awesome on it) Well of all the Marauders the Kronos is the most benefacted. Fact is that apart Dominix the other 2 Gallente BSes are not so great for PvE. The Kronos combines all Gallente BSes Rail bonuses (not the drone bonus of Dominix of course) Megathron gives you Tracking bonus and damage bonus. Hyperion gives you Armor rep bonus and Damage bonus Kronos combines these bonuses, gives you very easy fitting,gives you better cap stability due to having only 4 rails and gives you an extra web bonus. I would be very happy to see Kronos geting an optimal range bonus too but that would be a bit strange since no Gallente BS has such. On the other hand if that would happen then the Amarr would ask for Paladin to get an optimal bonus as well (after all in their case that bonus is already applied in Apocalypse so it would seem more "justified" to pass on to the Paladin as well) But then the Minmatar would ask for a damage bonus to the Vargur since the Tempest has that and then Caldari would ask for a rate of fire bonus for the Golem like the Raven has.... I personaly feel that would be cool the maraauders to have an extra bonus but i may be just spoiled hehe.
Zaran Darkstar Divine Slaves	Posted - 2009.01.31 14:09:00 - [16] Edited by: Zaran Darkstar on 31/01/2009 14:11:48 Edited by: Zaran Darkstar on 31/01/2009 14:10:39 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 31/01/2009 11:36:27 If you are letting enough ships into your web range that having a web actually makes a difference, you are doing it wrong. For a ganktank missionrunner who knows his business, the web bonus on either Paladin or Kronos is a complete waste. Sensor booster to lock small targets at range faster, or more tracking comps, are much more useful. Even target painters are. Plus like the guy above me said, webs make it harder for your drones to hit frigs because transversal for them goes up when they orbit rather than pursue, while for example TPs help both your drones and your guns. I can see though how people who think permatanking is a good idea for missions also think webs are a good idea for missions Rarely a frig manages to come that close but it is nice to know that even in that case i can kill it with pulses. For Angel missons were some BSes or cruisers (Arch angels) may come very close to you orbiting at high speed (for a BS) with the web you hit them as if immobile for full damage. I's much better than having 2 TCII with tracking scripts. Try for yourself and see. As for the permatanking i am the 3 damage mods type. So i never overtank. I always go for gang. Webs make it harder for your drones to hit frigs,so, guess what.Don;t use webs on frigs your drones are assigned to kill. Yet this changes in case of spider drones. These actually die a bit faster with the web and drones on them.
Gimpb Deathwatch Ltd	Posted - 2009.01.31 14:10:00 - [17] Originally by: Arte Don't know if its cos I'm using mediums, but when I web a frig, the drones can't kill it as fast as if I don't web it and the drones can chase it, cutting down on transversal I guess? I don't bother with web anymore. Yep, that's pretty much it. It's less of an issue with lights but that phenomenon happens with all drones.
keepiru Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.31 14:18:00 - [18] Edited by: keepiru on 31/01/2009 14:19:24 Originally by: Zaran Darkstar On the other hand if that would happen then the Amarr would ask for Paladin to get an optimal bonus as well (after all in their case that bonus is already applied in Apocalypse so it would seem more "justified" to pass on to the Paladin as well) But then the Minmatar would ask for a damage bonus to the Vargur since the Tempest has that and then Caldari would ask for a rate of fire bonus for the Golem like the Raven has.... I'm all for having the web bonus on the paladin/kronos tranformed to +optimal, and the web range on the LOLVARGUR tranformed to +damage. Golem already has range bonus, and does plenty damage, stays as it is - its painter bonus is actually useful.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.01.31 14:31:00 - [19] Originally by: Zaran Darkstar You are doing it wrong but i can't tell you how to do it right because only a few people know this and in fact is something i discovered myself. I could prove you it is doable at any time. If you don't believe me you are free to come to a mission with me to witness it with your own eyes. I don't use any wierd officer or faction stuff ,well apart an Amarr navy armor rep, just T2. I know how you do it (or at least I think I do), but the fact remains it's just damned simpler to blow up frigs at range, or just let your drones pick them off. Much less :effort: Originally by: Zaran Darkstar I would be very happy to see Kronos geting an optimal range bonus too but that would be a bit strange since no Gallente BS has such. No Gallente (or Amarr, for that matter) BS has a web bonus either Originally by: Zaran Darkstar On the other hand if that would happen then the Amarr would ask for Paladin to get an optimal bonus as well (after all in their case that bonus is already applied in Apocalypse so it would seem more "justified" to pass on to the Paladin as well) But then the Minmatar would ask for a damage bonus to the Vargur since the Tempest has that and then Caldari would ask for a rate of fire bonus for the Golem like the Raven has.... I personaly feel that would be cool the maraauders to have an extra bonus but i may be just spoiled hehe. I can see where you're coming from, but I think the Marauders need a bit of a redesign, tbh. Starting with the Vargur: MBS:5% Proj Turret RoF MBS: 7,5% Shield Boost amount M: 10% Proj Turret Optimal M: 7,5% Proj Turret Tracking Enough grid to actually fit the damned arties, and a bigger drone bay so it can supplement the anemic DPS of arties with sentry drones. Golem CBS: 10% missile veloctiy CBS: 5% shield resists M: 5% explo velocity M: 10% missile flight time or 5% reduction to missile signature Kronos GBS: 5% Hybrid Turret damage GBS: 7,5% Armour Repair amount M: 10% Hybrid Turret Optimal M: 7,5% Hybrid Turret Tracking Paladin ABS: 5% Energy Turret damage ABS: 5% Armour resists M: 10% Energy Turret Optimal M: 7,5% Energy Turret Tracking I'd also like all Marauders to have 25m3 more drone bay than bandwith so you could use the max number of sentry drones you can while still having a flight of lights to deal with scrambling frigs.
Leandro Salazar Better Dead Then Smeg	Posted - 2009.01.31 19:26:00 - [20] Quote: For Angel missons were some BSes or cruisers (Arch angels) may come very close to you orbiting at high speed (for a BS) with the web you hit them as if immobile for full damage. I's much better than having 2 TCII with tracking scripts. Try for yourself and see. Uh, so you want me to fry my brains and run Angel missions in a Paladin? No thanks :P Certainly there are circumstances where a web might be more useful than another module, but those are rare in the life of a Paladin mission runner doing it rightÖ and certainly don't justify that useless bonus on the ship. If it was a tracking bonus, you could actually hit orbiting inties (except spiders) with pulse lasers WITHOUT a web with some manovering (done that in a Nightmare), and if you abolutely must have a web, it works without a bonus too. Originally by: Deschenus Maximus I can see where you're coming from, but I think the Marauders need a bit of a redesign, tbh. Starting with the Vargur: MBS:5% Proj Turret RoF MBS: 7,5% Shield Boost amount M: 10% Proj Turret Optimal M: 7,5% Proj Turret Tracking Enough grid to actually fit the damned arties, and a bigger drone bay so it can supplement the anemic DPS of arties with sentry drones. Golem CBS: 10% missile veloctiy CBS: 5% shield resists M: 5% explo velocity M: 10% missile flight time or 5% reduction to missile signature Kronos GBS: 5% Hybrid Turret damage GBS: 7,5% Armour Repair amount M: 10% Hybrid Turret Optimal M: 7,5% Hybrid Turret Tracking Paladin ABS: 5% Energy Turret damage ABS: 5% Armour resists M: 10% Energy Turret Optimal M: 7,5% Energy Turret Tracking I'd also like all Marauders to have 25m3 more drone bay than bandwith so you could use the max number of sentry drones you can while still having a flight of lights to deal with scrambling frigs. I agree with most of this, but if you get the TP bonus removed from the golem and have it replaced by another fkn worthless missile precision bonus and thus make torps impractical on it, I will stalk you for the rest of your EVE-carreer :P
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.01.31 19:34:00 - [21] Originally by: Leandro Salazar I agree with most of this, but if you get the TP bonus removed from the golem and have it replaced by another fkn worthless missile precision bonus and thus make torps impractical on it, I will stalk you for the rest of your EVE-carreer :P Don't both accomplish the same thing? Well, as far as just the Golem is considered, I mean.
Leandro Salazar Better Dead Then Smeg	Posted - 2009.01.31 21:53:00 - [22] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: Leandro Salazar I agree with most of this, but if you get the TP bonus removed from the golem and have it replaced by another fkn worthless missile precision bonus and thus make torps impractical on it, I will stalk you for the rest of your EVE-carreer :P Don't both accomplish the same thing? Well, as far as just the Golem is considered, I mean. Yeah in theory they do, but precision rigs, skills and implants do not affect torps, and I am afraid that the same would apply to the ship bonus. If not, then it would actually be great if it is 5% per level.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2009.01.31 22:18:00 - [23] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Yeah in theory they do, but precision rigs, skills and implants do not affect torps, and I am afraid that the same would apply to the ship bonus. I just noticed that... weird... Originally by: Leandro Salazar If not, then it would actually be great if it is 5% per level. Unless there's a real compeling reason why that wouldn't be, I think it should.
Polinus Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.01.31 22:35:00 - [24] Originally by: Zaran Darkstar Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: Zaran Darkstar Web is a MUST for Pulse/Blaster setups for Paladin/Kronos . No it's not. It's not even a nice-to-have, really, because anything you didn't asplode at range and can't track up close will get shredded by your drones. I still have a web on mine, simply because I just don't like wasting a bonus, no matter how ******ed a fit that might lead to (hurray for med blasters on my Ishtar!!!). On a blaster Kronos, I'd tend to agree... but lol at the concept of a blaster Kronos anyhow. How many missions is that going to be better than a rail fit? 2? 3? Web in Paladin gives you absolute security feeling. Even if the game crashes and lost your drones you know you can still kill those sturdy scrambling frigs and this is a very important facor wehn you are flying something you cannot afford to lose like a Paladin. In time you ll realise why web is so important. Keep using it. I started using it for the same reason as you and now i simply can't do without it. About Kronos with Blasters i agree that are useless. My alt uses Kronos. For the close range missions try the smaller large raills. They are almost like Pulses with a little worse tracking but much better optimal and greater falloff. With a couple of TCII and a web you can kill anything, The DPs are not that great but still sufficient. and why you need that assurance? Any marauder can tank even the stupidiest mission with a hand tied in their back. You just need to learn to not be greedy and pack a lot of small drones not large ones in your drone bay.
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2009.02.01 02:25:00 - [25] Gallente Navy Web on a Rail Kronos or Beam Pladin is usefull(and ofc in PVP it is, but just because the 60% Webs in QR are Crap in general). Puls Fittings with 2 TCs(like I role them) nuke everything bigger than a Frig anyway so no, not realy. Blaster Kronos is not realy a good Mission Ship since you will be done with Rails before you get in Range with a AB Blaster Fit most of the time anyway. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Slayton Ford STK Scientific The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.02.01 02:37:00 - [26] Originally by: Polinus Originally by: Zaran Darkstar Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: Zaran Darkstar Web is a MUST for Pulse/Blaster setups for Paladin/Kronos . No it's not. It's not even a nice-to-have, really, because anything you didn't asplode at range and can't track up close will get shredded by your drones. I still have a web on mine, simply because I just don't like wasting a bonus, no matter how ******ed a fit that might lead to (hurray for med blasters on my Ishtar!!!). On a blaster Kronos, I'd tend to agree... but lol at the concept of a blaster Kronos anyhow. How many missions is that going to be better than a rail fit? 2? 3? Web in Paladin gives you absolute security feeling. Even if the game crashes and lost your drones you know you can still kill those sturdy scrambling frigs and this is a very important facor wehn you are flying something you cannot afford to lose like a Paladin. In time you ll realise why web is so important. Keep using it. I started using it for the same reason as you and now i simply can't do without it. About Kronos with Blasters i agree that are useless. My alt uses Kronos. For the close range missions try the smaller large raills. They are almost like Pulses with a little worse tracking but much better optimal and greater falloff. With a couple of TCII and a web you can kill anything, The DPs are not that great but still sufficient. and why you need that assurance? Any marauder can tank even the stupidiest mission with a hand tied in their back. You just need to learn to not be greedy and pack a lot of small drones not large ones in your drone bay. I woudl disagree. The Vargur has issues with tanking under heavy fire.
keepiru Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.01 03:35:00 - [27] Originally by: Slayton Ford Originally by: Polinus and why you need that assurance? Any marauder can tank even the stupidiest mission with a hand tied in their back. You just need to learn to not be greedy and pack a lot of small drones not large ones in your drone bay. I woudl disagree. The Vargur has issues with tanking under heavy fire. Really? Because any LOLVargur setup I can EFT up has a stronger tank than my Kronos, which should offset the lower dps - and I hardly ever turn on the rep on my Kronos. Its not like I'm using deadspace/officer mods either.
Zaran Darkstar Divine Slaves	Posted - 2009.02.01 04:31:00 - [28] Edited by: Zaran Darkstar on 01/02/2009 04:35:19 Edited by: Zaran Darkstar on 01/02/2009 04:33:28 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Uh, so you want me to fry my brains and run Angel missions in a Paladin? No thanks :P Worlds collide vs Sansha and Angel To be found in both Minmatar and Amarr mission hubs. Only really doable in a Paladin. Maelstorm with ambit rigs can't do it since there are ships orbiting you at 33km. One can't be trained in every race out there. I fly Amarr and Minmatar but got BS 5 in Amarr only. I find Paladin to do this mission better than any other ship in my disposition. And yes the web bonus is very useful for that mission with the Angel BSes orbiting near you at high speeds. I can't think of any other ship except perhaps Vargur that could run this mission better than my Paladin with web. Quote: Certainly there are circumstances where a web might be more useful than another module, but those are rare in the life of a Paladin mission runner doing it rightÖ and certainly don't justify that useless bonus on the ship. If it was a tracking bonus, you could actually hit orbiting inties (except spiders) with pulse lasers WITHOUT a web with some manovering (done that in a Nightmare), and if you abolutely must have a web, it works without a bonus too. Well i hit both indies and spider drones with some 'manoveuring' due to the web bonus. I guess that proves it is better since you with the tracking bonus don't manage to kill the spiders And no i don't use heavies at all. I use mediums and lights like everybody. The web has many uses. Uses you can't imagine since you seem to think that Eve is a playground. But i will help you imagine. I ll show you the link to a killmail were it will be easy to imagine if you ever have done anything else than PVeing why with a web bonus that Vargur could have been saved from that 'disgrace' http://twv.evekb.co.uk/index.php?a=kill_detail&kll_id=452029 If you still can't understand why a web instead of tracking bonus would have saved that Vargur in that situation i can't help you any further. Hopefully there will be someone in this forum who will understand the why.
Eva midgard Caldari the undivided Negative Ten.	Posted - 2009.02.01 11:39:00 - [29] I use the ts just because of the overloaded web range and having a web on kronos at least is the wholepoint of the ship the 100+ kills i've had with it proves it use to me. RIVUR'TAMS alt
chrisss0r	Posted - 2009.02.01 11:58:00 - [30] webs on marauder at least makes more sense than snakes on a plane. so why not :P

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