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War'Dec is too cheap

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Zhield	Posted - 2009.01.30 21:52:00 - [1] new war'dec recommendation: Cost, war'dec cost for corp 100 mil war'dec cost for alliance is 500 mil Time, war'dec time length should be 3 Days long. war'dec can not be repeated in the same month
Nnamuachs Caldari Kiith Paktu Veneratio Venator Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.30 22:05:00 - [2] i'd like to supplement this idea. Cost to create a corp: 150-200 mil. though i dont agree that wardec costs should be that high
Jade Elaira	Posted - 2009.01.30 23:25:00 - [3] Originally by: Zhield new war'dec recommendation: Cost, war'dec cost for corp 100 mil war'dec cost for alliance is 500 mil Time, war'dec time length should be 3 Days long. war'dec can not be repeated in the same month That's waaaay to high. It seems so high that you're posting in anger. I do think the Dec fee is too low, it should be raised to 5M or 10M a week and +5M or +10M for additional corps. Alliances should stay at 50M, I don't think its that low. And the length should not be changed, or if anything, increase the Wardec fee to 50M and extended it for 30 days. This is coming from a pvper-turned-indy, so if anything increasing it would benefit me (and yes I am being warred by a rieding corp now ), but I think your suggestion (no offense!) is unfair to the aggressor. EVE is a PvP game, like it or not. There should be some limitations, but it should be as open as possible. Originally by: Nnamuachs i'd like to supplement this idea. Cost to create a corp: 150-200 mil. though i dont agree that wardec costs should be that high Wink Yes! I think that the cost to start a corp should be a a lot higher, 100M is fair considering that an alliance is 1 Bil. There are too many noob corps out there. I think people should join corps and get a feel for the game before creating their own. IMO A ceo should at least have 6-8 months under his belt before starting a corp.
Aya Sin	Posted - 2009.01.31 00:04:00 - [4] Instead of fixed prices, how about having the costs depend on the number of players in a corp/alliance?
Osiris Andras	Posted - 2009.01.31 00:20:00 - [5] Edited by: Osiris Andras on 31/01/2009 00:20:36 I'll take that if we can war dec your NPC corporation. Can you imagine even if you could do this for one whole week
Kaya Divine Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.31 01:04:00 - [6] 1b for corporations 10b for alliances
Naibasak	Posted - 2009.01.31 01:13:00 - [7] How about leaving them as they are, but having a couple week cooldown timer between each of them against specific corps? so you cant keep up a war with a single corp indefinably. just a random stab in the dark here, donÆt hate me for it ^^
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.01.31 03:39:00 - [8] Originally by: Kaya Divine 1b for corporations 10b for alliances I agree. Those are good prices for creating corps and/or alliances.
Red Flag	Posted - 2009.01.31 13:22:00 - [9] No, no! It should be 100b for corporations, 1tril for alliances!
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities	Posted - 2009.01.31 14:48:00 - [10] Originally by: Zhield new war'dec recommendation: Cost, war'dec cost for corp 100 mil war'dec cost for alliance is 500 mil Time, war'dec time length should be 3 Days long. war'dec can not be repeated in the same month So we're going from too cheap to too expensive, right? How about none of the extremes?
Nephilius Caldari Grey Legionaires	Posted - 2009.02.03 19:23:00 - [11] Edited by: Nephilius on 03/02/2009 19:28:28 As I've said before, the cost to Dec a corp is just too low. 2 Million? A player can make that kind of money in 15 minutes in a Lvl4 mission from bounties alone. All it really does it create an environment for gratuitous WDs with little to no cost for the Deccer. Example: A friend of mine decced a corp, proceeded to thrash them, and got 750 mil out of the deal. I am not disputing the execution of the war, I congratulated him on his magnificent haul on that one. BUT...2 mil for 750 mil? Last I heard, he had decced another for 1 billion.... So where is the loss on such a thing? Where is the throttle switch that will make people stop and think about the pros and cons of deccing? If you dec and bite off more than you could chew, then you cancel and you are out a paltry sum and at worst, a few ships. It's so cheap a caveman can do it. I think that 50 mil is closer to the mark...its not out of reach for most, but it also gives people pause, to determine if that is truly money they want to spend in that manner. It just helps to eliminate unnecessary wars commited by those who have six zeroes behind a two and nothing to do with it. I ate a Carebear once...couldn't quit farting rainbows for a month.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Divinity's Edge	Posted - 2009.02.03 19:49:00 - [12] Situational examples are a good way to stave a claim ITT.
Annatar The Galactic Empire Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.03 19:52:00 - [13] I would think somekinda steps woudl be good. To declare an <10 Char corperation a war should be be less costintensive as lets say declare war on an 320 Char Corperation. I would think that about 50 million for an 50 Char Corperation sounds good. what about 25 Play hops and lets cost each new step 25 Million ISK. so declaring an 10 char Corperation a war will cost 25 million and the declare to an 51 Char Corporation cost 75 Million ISK. Alliances are the other Matter, lets just combine is declaring war on a Alliance with 2576 Members would cost 2600 Million isk. even if thats sounds a little buit expansive. Maybe a cost cap at 1 Bn. just my 2 cents -------------------------------------------- Never argue with an Idoit, they will drag you down to their Level and beat you with experience.
Koyama Ise Caldari Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon	Posted - 2009.02.03 21:50:00 - [14] You could make it a ratio and the more members the victim compared to the deccer has the more expensive it is, the less members the deccer has compared to the victim the cheaper it is, but then you run into character age issues. Esentially it stops the big guy bashing up the little guy... hopefully...
Commoner Caldari The Tuskers	Posted - 2009.02.03 22:19:00 - [15] Strongly disagree that prices needs to be increased. Really ruins it for small-scale starting out merc-corps wanting to do their first contract, when the price becomes so steep nobody wants to cash out 50m for an untested merc corp.
Gun Hog Caldari Ardent Industrial Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.03 22:46:00 - [16] I support any and all nerfs to the wardec system. Personally, I would like it to be removed. _______________________________________________ Orca
Allen Ramses Caldari Typo Corp	Posted - 2009.02.04 02:27:00 - [17] Individual: 2 Mil. Corporation: 20 Mil. Alliance: 200 Mil. Works for me.
Galan Amarias Amarr The Drekla Consortium Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.02.04 06:57:00 - [18] Originally by: Nephilius Edited by: Nephilius on 03/02/2009 19:28:28 As I've said before, the cost to Dec a corp is just too low. 2 Million? A player can make that kind of money in 15 minutes in a Lvl4 mission from bounties alone. All it really does it create an environment for gratuitous WDs with little to no cost for the Deccer. Example: A friend of mine decced a corp, proceeded to thrash them, and got 750 mil out of the deal. I am not disputing the execution of the war, I congratulated him on his magnificent haul on that one. BUT...2 mil for 750 mil? Last I heard, he had decced another for 1 billion.... So where is the loss on such a thing? Where is the throttle switch that will make people stop and think about the pros and cons of deccing? If you dec and bite off more than you could chew, then you cancel and you are out a paltry sum and at worst, a few ships. It's so cheap a caveman can do it. I think that 50 mil is closer to the mark...its not out of reach for most, but it also gives people pause, to determine if that is truly money they want to spend in that manner. It just helps to eliminate unnecessary wars commited by those who have six zeroes behind a two and nothing to do with it. The decs are fine we're ment to mess with each other. If you don't want war dec, hide in noob corp. Having said that, where is the risk? How about instead of paying 750mil ransom, you but 750mil of t1 fit, t1 frigs and go at it with your attackers? Lots of fun had by all, you gain invaluable pvp experience and you stop hiding from the more militant aspect of the game. Not your bag? ok take the exact same 750mil and hire mercs. They will take the fight to your agressors and you can continue to remove all veldspar from high sec.. wheee.. Still can't hack it? Take nothing, move your corp to the other side of high sec and shop in jita with alts.. they will get bored and go elsewhere..
Major Stallion The Dark Horses	Posted - 2009.02.04 08:40:00 - [19] Originally by: Zhield new war'dec recommendation: Cost, war'dec cost for corp 100 mil war'dec cost for alliance is 500 mil Time, war'dec time length should be 3 Days long. war'dec can not be repeated in the same month the scary part about this OP....someone at CCP behind a 10,000 dollar desk might actually think this is a good idea
Calgura Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.04 10:12:00 - [20] Let's also do the following: The wardeccer corp can't have any people joining it. The wardecced corp can't have any people leaving it. Sounds fair?
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.02.04 11:29:00 - [21] Quote: Let's also do the following: The wardeccer corp can't have any people joining it. The wardecced corp can't have any people leaving it. OK, here we go: Create a corporation: 100,000,000 ISK Create an alliance: 1,000,000,000 ISK Wardec a corporation: 25,000,000 ISK Wardec an alliance: 250,000,000 ISK I would also like to remove the scaling cost of wardecs, as having the Privateers around empire was super fun time.
Irida Mershkov Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2009.02.04 11:52:00 - [22] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Quote: Let's also do the following: The wardeccer corp can't have any people joining it. The wardecced corp can't have any people leaving it. OK, here we go: Create a corporation: 100,000,000 ISK Create an alliance: 1,000,000,000 ISK Wardec a corporation: 25,000,000 ISK Wardec an alliance: 250,000,000 ISK I would also like to remove the scaling cost of wardecs, as having the Privateers around empire was super fun time. I think that is pretty decent idea actually.
Tranka Verrane Public Venture Enterprises	Posted - 2009.02.04 14:30:00 - [23] Edited by: Tranka Verrane on 04/02/2009 14:34:56 Prices are too low currently, I would agree, but the ones you are talking are insane. I would propose: 10mill for first wardec, Doubling for each additional (20, 40, 80, etc) 100mill for wardeccing alliances (Not Scaling) 50mill to create a corp (or 1 mill, as now, but with an upkeep cost of 10 mill per month) 1Bill to create an alliance (as now). And I would agree with the no leaving or joining rule as long as it didn't start till the wardec came properly into effect (ie after 24 hours).
Nephilius Caldari Grey Legionaires	Posted - 2009.02.04 19:37:00 - [24] Originally by: Galan Amarias Originally by: Nephilius Edited by: Nephilius on 03/02/2009 19:28:28 As I've said before, the cost to Dec a corp is just too low. 2 Million? A player can make that kind of money in 15 minutes in a Lvl4 mission from bounties alone. All it really does it create an environment for gratuitous WDs with little to no cost for the Deccer. Example: A friend of mine decced a corp, proceeded to thrash them, and got 750 mil out of the deal. I am not disputing the execution of the war, I congratulated him on his magnificent haul on that one. BUT...2 mil for 750 mil? Last I heard, he had decced another for 1 billion.... So where is the loss on such a thing? Where is the throttle switch that will make people stop and think about the pros and cons of deccing? If you dec and bite off more than you could chew, then you cancel and you are out a paltry sum and at worst, a few ships. It's so cheap a caveman can do it. I think that 50 mil is closer to the mark...its not out of reach for most, but it also gives people pause, to determine if that is truly money they want to spend in that manner. It just helps to eliminate unnecessary wars commited by those who have six zeroes behind a two and nothing to do with it. The decs are fine we're ment to mess with each other. If you don't want war dec, hide in noob corp. Nobody should have to hide in a Noob Corp. Essentially, you are condoning a random gratuitous wardec for no other reason than to give you a little pew-pew. WDs are part of the game, I think its a nifty idea. I don't think the price is right for what it entails. Seems to me that the only ones who like it as it is are the ones who enjoy abusing it, and those who want it changed are those who see that it's a ridiculously cheap way to get PvP without the pesky secstat slap on the face.
Luzz Bightyear Caldari The PeacekeeperZ	Posted - 2009.02.05 04:41:00 - [25] Why are you all suggesting it gets scaled backwards like that? x=number of players in WDing corp/alliance y=number of players in WDed corp/alliance x/y50 For example: Corp Abc wardecs corp Xyz. Corp Abc has 15 members. Corp Xyz has 60 members. 15 / 60 50 = 12.5mil It gets cheaper the bigger the corp/alliance you're WDing is, and more expensive the smaller they are. 50mil is a sensible starting point for it. ------------------ Hi-ho, hi-ho, It's off to lowsec we go, With a sh*t fit 'sprey, and T1 drones, Hi-ho, hi-ho hi-ho hi-ho. - Anon
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.02.05 05:00:00 - [26] That's actually a glomping good idea there. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Irn Bruce	Posted - 2009.02.05 05:07:00 - [27] So all you do to discourage wardecs is load your corp/alliance up with inactive alts. That already happens, it's just at the minute the deccing corp isn't unfairly penalised when they dec you only to discover that there are only 2 players behind your 50 character corp, they just retract the war and go and find someone more fun to shoot. Under that proposition they'd have had to pay 25 times as much as they would have if the 2 players had only had one character each in the corp.
Galan Amarias Amarr The Drekla Consortium Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.02.05 06:14:00 - [28] Originally by: Nephilius Nobody should have to hide in a Noob Corp. Essentially, you are condoning a random gratuitous wardec for no other reason than to give you a little pew-pew. WDs are part of the game, I think its a nifty idea. I don't think the price is right for what it entails. Seems to me that the only ones who like it as it is are the ones who enjoy abusing it, and those who want it changed are those who see that it's a ridiculously cheap way to get PvP without the pesky secstat slap on the face. So you read one of my three paragraphs and formed an obviously anti-pvp biased opinion. The bias is ok I'm biased pro pvp but you are still talking with your head betwinst two cheeks. EVE can also be spelled PVP. If you do not want to compete with other players there is the noob corp. It sucks but it's the out for people who absolutly do not want to be shot at. Noob corp and high sec. No one should be trapped permanently in High sec. It's crappy there. Not much to do that gets the heart thumping.. No one is stuck in the noob corp or in high sec. Unless they prison themselves there. It's like refusing to roll the dice in monopoly because someone else may call "Rent." You can make an argument that Monopoly is all about resource acquisition and empire building, but it's actually about competition over resource acquisition and competitive empire building. As for my pew pew, check the killboard (battleclinic.com), you'll find I don't spend much time in Empire. I just can't stand you pvp avoidant types whining about how it's too easy for someone to come agress you w/o ever once trying to stand up for yourselves and play the game. So since I'm not abusing the current system and I do like it it seems like your biased observations are in fact anecdotal at best and totally irrelevant. -Galan p.s. I'm not totally against a general increase, however the point of an increase would be to limit privateers style "abuse" and that is accomplished much better by the current cost scaling system. Upping the cost limits young corps from being able to play. Inclusiveness for young players with balls is one of the best hallmarks of EVE.
Galan Amarias Amarr The Drekla Consortium Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.02.05 06:17:00 - [29] Originally by: Luzz Bightyear Why are you all suggesting it gets scaled backwards like that? x=number of players in WDing corp/alliance y=number of players in WDed corp/alliance x/y50 For example: Corp Abc wardecs corp Xyz. Corp Abc has 15 members. Corp Xyz has 60 members. 15 / 60 50 = 12.5mil It gets cheaper the bigger the corp/alliance you're WDing is, and more expensive the smaller they are. 50mil is a sensible starting point for it. This is a bad idea, it promotes exactly the kind of "abuse" that ***ed off the op in the 1st place. After all by your formula, corp abc - 10 militant pvp harfend gankaholocs decs alliance xyz 400 pvp avoidant empire bears and noobs... and it's pratically free. (10/400)50 = 1.25isk
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.02.05 06:23:00 - [30] If an alliance/corp has 400 people, then they should be able to hold their own against 10 people, even if they are a PVE alliance. If they can do nothing but die, then, well...Darwinism at work. Also, the problem with loading up the corp with a trillion alts would be as simple as only counting one character per account in the cost formula.

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