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The Time Is Now! Save W-space from the dreaded Pre-Nerf SyndromeÖ!

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 04:32:00 - [1] Edited by: Zeba on 02/02/2009 04:40:27 Originally by: CCP Whisper Originally by: Rex Lashar How is local affected in these new systems under the new map and scanner changes? How is it affected everywhere else? How local chat will work in wormhole systems and the degree to which we will roll any changes out to the rest of the EVE universe is still under discussion. Personally I want local to be in delayed mode in wormhole systems. A great opportunity is being laid at our, the rightious pod pilots of New Eden, feet to voice our will in a grand concerto of solidarity! If you want w-space to be truely free and wild then let CCP Whisper know you are behind his epic idea to make a genuine radical game mechanic change in how Eve is played for the betterment of us all. Thumbs up if you are down with CCP Whisper. edit: whoops forgot to add the madatory Discuss! Flame! Troll Away! inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 05:32:00 - [2] Originally by: bff Jill I still don't see what the big deal with local is Keep local, remove the ability to see how many/who are in it. If you speak in it, people know you are there, if you don't, you are invisible. Create a probe that can be launched and scan an entire system to see how many people are in it from any point in system, with no locational information at all. That is exactly what we mean when we say we want local 'removed'. Now for those who are browsing the thread and are thinking onos no local and the pirates will get me. Yes this can happen if you are not paying attention but on the other hand it forces the aggressor to seek you out. Currently a prowling pvper can roam vast sections of space because all he has to do to find a target is see if someone is in local and do a check info then drop a probe. On the other hand a miner or ratter can instantly see the same and log. The amount of instantanious info that both persons get is immense and tbh kinda ruins the fun. However if there is no local then the aggressor has to meticulously scan out each and every system to find a target. This means as long as the person who wants to be left along is running an occasional scan for aggressors then he is safe. On the other hand it helps people looking for kills to for once have a chance to actually sneak up and kill a target. All in all its one of the vanishing few changes in the game mechanics that is completely unbiased and rewards the person who wants to actively and moar importantly smartly play the game be it a ganker or a carebear. Hopefully one day it can be applied to 0.0 but thats as far as I would support it outside of w-space and a battle for another day. So again for no local in w-space! inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 05:56:00 - [3] Originally by: Soporo opps i thought we were talking about removing local in 0.0 or empire.. On topic please. Also: inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 06:03:00 - [4] Originally by: Rex Lashar Wait, what is this thread about? Are you pro-Whispser or anti-Whisper? Also: inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 06:14:00 - [5] Originally by: Soporo Originally by: Rex Lashar So unless they want to kill all non-consensual PVP in WH space, they need to do something about the instantaneous and accurate nature of local chat. Lol, oh cmon. Now you're using hot topic buzzwords. Even local as is wouldnt kill all non consensual pvp, otherwise no-one would ever die in K-space now. Like I said, as long as miners (mostly) don't get shafted and have some way to see you as fast as you see them then I guess it will be ok. Otherwise...meh. Miners have access to the same skills and info gathering modules and any other player. However mining in w-space is going to be harder than 0.0 due to the ai enabled rats that will avoid the standard bs tankers and commence to popping your mining ships left and right. That will be the biggest danger in w-space for non-combat oriented operations and local won't help you there. Also the nature of w-space means that there will be no huge threat from roving gangs and absolutely no threat from a cyno dropping cov ops. No local is perfect for w-space almost like it was designed for it. Also: Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 06:32:00 - [6] Originally by: An Anarchyyt It's true...wormholes won't be instances, but lets make them just feel exactly like instances. Not to mention, I know it is extremely fun having to probe all over every system over and over again to make sure there are no people or not. Says the guys who will be taking full advantage of the fact that noone will instantly see him as his roving low mass velator fleet of doom rolls into a scouted out wormhole with a bunch of fat stupid juicy faction tank fitted hulks. Also: inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 06:40:00 - [7] Edited by: Zeba on 02/02/2009 06:41:42 Originally by: An Anarchyyt Now, perhaps we should argue about which Dev is right, or stop trying to pretend this is any different than any other "Local is dumb" thread. This is about backing CCP Whisper opinion of how to arrange the game mechanics of w-space and not an argument. The moar people who back his personal opinion the stronger his hand when he tries to play it. So as you guys are known griefers and love to do anything at all to make people sad pandas do you support CCP Whisper so you can have a chance to spread the Fame and Glory of the Greater Goon to uncharted space or are you wanting to keep the same old tired mechanics where as soon someone infos your pic in local and sees your corp they log and you get no pew pew. Also: Originally by: An Anarchyyt Probably not, I'll get fed up after having to do that for five systems and go back to roving normally. Don't you have lackeys for that? I would if I was in your position. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 07:08:00 - [8] Originally by: An Anarchyyt See, The Greater Goon lives in Delve. Oh my apologies, sorry forgot that was actually a corp with a spotted history with the Goons. Guess I fail basic diplomacy. KK let me rephrase. For the Fame and Greater Glory of the Goonswarm. Also: inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 07:35:00 - [9] Originally by: Venkul Mul No, not until there are better systems to see hostiles than mashing local scan every 30 seconds and hoping they are within 14 AU. Most of the people in W space will not be in a deadspace area (at most some of the exploration sites will be in deadspace, but not even that is certain) and even with the current probes it will be easy to scan and pinpoint them from outside the range of the on board scanner. Good thing they are introducing a completely new easy to use after you figure it out flexible probing system that will be available for use on any ship with the added feature of reuseable place anywhere you want warp capable probes. Also: Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 07:59:00 - [10] Originally by: Venkul Mul And only finds exploration sites, not helping to detect enemy at all Hmmm. Thought they hinted that there would be the same two launcher types a 'big' do it all type and a 'small' ship/wormhole prober. Well if not then the 'big' launcher will still be an intergal part of your exploration fleet and so will have full access to every part of the new scanning mechanics.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 09:29:00 - [11] Originally by: CCP Prism X I really appreciate how you've managed to imply that Whisper needs to fight his team over what nice to have's we'll push into the project, before release, through some weird game of leverages, cloaks and daggers. Sounds like good fun. I try. Originally by: CCP Prism X But I can't agree. An Anarchyyt has already tried to explain what I said in the comment thread (and I have the feeling you've tried to re-interpret that as me having something against removing local, let me correct that right now) and you've just danced around that. Here's my personal opinion (regardless of my feelings on local being removed all together): I'm not very comfortable with my work the past 3 months feeling any less like real EVE space ''just because''. Nor am I willing to devalue this new addition to EVE by making it some sort of test-ground for mechanical changes that can't even be tested there. Hidden space is not 0.0, it's not designed to be like 0.0, stop applying 0.0 to hidden space. If we were to roll this out with delayed local we'd have absolutely 0 information after 3 months as we would lack any control set to reference. Like most people I play with I do want local gone. But not as an afterthought, nor as some research project. Bring some reasoning to the table. It's not enough to want free candy. Everyone wants free candy. But I can invent ways to get free candy for you where the implementation is so bad that you'd never want to see candy again in your whole life. Awesome! Thanks for clarifying the info and now I can contunue planning out my first expedition. p.s. Also wasn't implying you were not in favor of an eventual local removal I was just standing behind the dev who was offering what I and apparently others want and convieniently ignoring the opposition argument(An Anarchyrrt) no matter how much they might be (temporarily)correct. By all means take your time to impliment it and I will gleefully look forward to the day it happens and can be implimented CorrectlyÖ. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 09:46:00 - [12] Originally by: Tzar'rim While I understand the reasoning for removing local (but not neccesarily agree to it) a big downside to me is the loss of interaction. Sure there's lots of people going "DON'T TALK IN LOCAL!!!!#@!@#" like they're mentally deranged and are uncapable normal conversation, but this is still an MMO and MMO's are about interaction. Ofcourse you could say that that's what corps and alliances are for but if you never really chat/interact with others how will you ever meet new friends/adversaries. How BORING will it become! Removing local does not mean removing the chat aspect just the neon sign effect when you jump into a system so everyone knows exactly who you are and can near instantly make a descision to fight or flee. Great for empire and to a much lesser extent 0.0 it just seems the total wilderness aspect of w-space would be enhanced in some peoples opinions including certain devs. but als implimentation with the now apparent ****ton of new features will be too much to Q&A properly so I guess time to put the initiative on hold until winter after they have time to digest the new W-space data. Also: Still Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. if humanly possible.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 10:08:00 - [13] Originally by: Tzar'rim Lets be honest, you want to remove local since that would give you more targets and more targets is good ofcourse. Wrong I want it removed for greater safety on my expeditions into w-space. Moast players are lazy and won't be arsed to have to go throught the motions of a quick manual scan at the planets and so will leave me alone. This promotes smarter tactics past probing out a wormhole checking local to see if someone is there and if not going to the next system. This puts all the power in the roamers hands as they only have to spend a few seconds to let let local load a system instead of having to do a proper scout. We will eventually have this feature as it just makes sense an all accounts in w-space but the devs have all the info so I will not emorage against their position just try to subtly(or not) bump up its sense of priority.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 10:24:00 - [14] Originally by: ollobrains2 we are just for the time being have to get used to wspace having an active local will help especially if u have a loose trading network of blues to identify if anyone who may have items for sale pops up Any loose trading networks are going to be run out of empire. The utter randomness of w<>w connections will make any attempt at trading from within w-space highly erratic and possibly deadly if you jump into the wrong system. Basically the expedition leader makes deals with suppliers and when the stocks get low the expedition probes for an empire connection and asks for a delivery in it once found. This will require an anti-jita effect in that it will pay off big to have small stocks all over empire so when an opportunity arrives a trader can cash in with w-space residents in a hurry to dump stocks and resupply. Just think of the opportunities if a pos fuel supplier had all the required stocks everywhere and could guarrentee almost instand delivery no matter what system you pop out in. Removing local will greatly promote this effect I think.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 10:30:00 - [15] Originally by: Tzar'rim - someone in Wspace doing their thing, they're occupied with rats and most of them will be (lets be honest) PVEers who don't/can't understand anything over "more damage on my CNR" and "increase mining yield!!!". Result is them not paying attention too much - a small group of active hunters trying to find some juicy targets, they got their scout, falcons, dps and neuts all ready to rock Guess who'll benefit the most from removing local? Thats easy. The group who has the greatest situational awareness of course. Will there be inattentive pvers? Yes, they will be the prey of the attentive hunters who are ****ed they missed the attentive ratters in the last hole and will as a result get an even greater rush off the kill. The strong prosper and the weak die. Everyone benefits in some way be it a well satified killer or an inattentive player who just got a wakeup call. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:00:00 - [16] Oh oh another point in favor. Escort pilots in a commandship or orca are usually watching furry pron on a mining op simply because there is nothing else to do. Whoops no instalocal info so better mount a probe launcher and occupy yourself with running scans for ships and IIRC at the same time sites for your combat ships to run. It just gets better and better. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:18:00 - [17] Edited by: Zeba on 02/02/2009 11:21:44 Originally by: Sade Onyx Originally by: Aylara I want local to be in delayed mode in wormhole systems! Delayed by how long? would this delay be a fixed time delay, or variable depending on the ship type, the W-space type or just completly random? I know this is Science Fiction but it would be nice to see a scientific reason for this delay (all be it a fictional one) rather than... oh it just better for gameplay. Idealy you won't show up in local unless you show up on the overview or you type something in local chat. A probe or the built in scanner should show only the ship if its uncloaked. Tbh I guess we need a clarification from the devs on what they mean by delayed local. Originally by: Perry Most of us remember a bug which removed local for some hours after a patch a year ago. It was awesome. Till i started a 1v1 and 10sec later 10 more hostiles arrive and i have to bail. So yeah, removing local would not improve PvP one bit in my opinion, it would push it even too far, making big gangs and altscouts an absolute must, while stressing the need for cloaked or fast ships. Just undocking would become an act of suicidal behavior. Not to speak the scanner mechanic isnt ready for it. Lets see how w-space plays out and then change the SOV system, and then talk about local again. This is why I would only really be intersted in this feature for w-space. Unlike normal space there is no easy way to get backup quickley and with the ship mass restrictions the locals already in system will normally outnumber any invader cause the invaders will want a quick way out and will not have maxxed thier ship numbers and close the hole. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:25:00 - [18] Originally by: Shevar If you remove local it would be best to remove pilots in space and docked the last 30 minutes as well from the map. Sure roaming gangs wouldn't like it because you can't spot npc'ers or miners or gatecamps (although pod killings also shows it) anymore without physically scanning them but otherwise you only remove the tools to detect the other side only for 1 side (the roamers, the map is useless to find them yet the map can be used to find people busy doing w/e). Afaik there are not going to be any map statistics for w-space. I don't even think they are going to show up on the map at all even when you are in one though I'm sure it will let you at least see the planetary system section. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 11:55:00 - [19] Originally by: Talkietoaster I support "delayed local" in w-space. IMHO it goes like this: In k-space (1.0-0.0) you have gates that let all non-cap ships in and out. So from a technical viewpoint if one could access (or hack into) stargate communications, you would be in a position to know who is in-system and who is not. Hence "local" as it is in k-space kinda makes sense. In w-space however, there is no such hardware and so there is no communications where you could get that information from, so it makes absolute sense to have local in delayed mode. my two isk/100 Damn, I was hoping to save that point for later use but yes indeed it is a good rp reason. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 12:25:00 - [20] Originally by: Zaknussem Originally by: Zeba However mining in w-space is going to be harder than 0.0 due to the ai enabled rats that will avoid the standard bs tankers and commence to popping your mining ships left and right. Question: Is this something you know for a fact, or just another assumption on your behalf? This thread sadly contains too much of the latter. Its an educated guess based on info gleened from dev posts and my own personal knowledge of programming ai to make tactical and strategic descisions in a hobby enviroment.(SupCom. Sorian is a God.) The devs have stated the ai will switch targets under changing scenarios and I can't help but think the programmers paid just that little bit moar attention to the "Pillage Teh Player Mining Op" script.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 13:02:00 - [21] Originally by: Evelgrivion Wasn't the entire point of PrismX's post that he'd love to see local replaced, while simultaneously expressing how there is a need for a surrogate system that provide basic intelligence, and isn't worse than what local is now? If you had did as I asked in the op and read the entire thread before commenting you would have realised that I'm asking for it to be noticebly moved up the priority list for development hopefully to be implimented in m10 and not 'lulz i rwantin no loclz nao doo eet nao nao nao!!!1111' inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 13:10:00 - [22] Originally by: Venkul Mul - PvE/Miners group scanner: drop probes, scan to see if someone enter the system, repeat, repeat, repeat and so on, until the gang has cleared the system, completed the mining op and is ready to leave the system. Time spent clicking "scan"? several hours, without doing anything different and in a ship that probably will be incapable of doing anything different. Mining ice is more exciting. As I stated in an earlier post the npc are not going to be pushovers and the majority of miners in a w-system are going to want maximum yield so a well tanked orca or command ship is going to be a given along with your combat ships. Now last time I remember doing that job is even less appealing than mining ice so why not stick a probe launcher on and scan for ships and sites as you relax to the gentle whoosh of the strip miners? I know your just trying to bring some spice to the thread but at least get your argument right.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 13:21:00 - [23] Edited by: Zeba on 02/02/2009 13:23:01 Originally by: Venkul Mul What part of "click scan every 30 seconds for 5 hours is bad" are you missing? Wrong mindset for the target player. The exploration and industrial people who will be attracted to this space are raised on the roid scanner and staggering miner II or strips to pull ore out every 30 seconds to get just that little bit extra yield out of an osprey or retreiver. The probers are about the same only its the rescan button instead of dragging ore. They will gladly and easily hit the scan button to stay safe just like they did with the miners. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 13:34:00 - [24] Originally by: Denaris Aschanna So how about if local was set to delayed mode, but every time you ran a scan it would make your presence known to others in the system to some extent? Not necessarily make you appear in local, but possibly a message flashing up on your screen along the lines of 'Scan pulse detected'. To my mind if you're sending out active scanning signals it's going to light you up like a christmas tree with the amount of energy required for sending out a scan. This would have the advantage of a: AFK people not paying attention would miss the message, b: People actually watching what they were doing would have some warning and could decide whether or not to safespot, run a scan themselves etc.. just an idea.. Thats a good idea. Kinda like a trip line with some cans. But it would only work if you have a deployed ship scan probe set to passive scan. Maybe a new scan type for the new probe mechanics? inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 14:12:00 - [25] Originally by: Zaknussem Unless the AI team has found a way to make Sleepers multitask in combat in a sensible manner (scram the haulers, jam the gankers, kill the haulers, for example) then the Sleepers are only going to be a nuisance instead of a real threat. The ability to switch targets is useless if there's no real AI to call the shots. What you know of AI programming sadly means nothing in this case unless you're on the CCP AI team. When it comes to CCP and upcoming features in EvE, I have learned that even cautious optimism can lead to disappointment...and new NPC AI is actually one feature I'd like to see CCP pull off in style. In short, your assumptions aren't doing anyone any favours. I suggest that you stick to the facts, and not try to make your guesswork come off as facts. Your overcomplicating the process. The key to sripting competent ai is to make it as simple as possible. Basically on warp in the ai check to see what is in the area vs what they have. An algorythm is then run to determine which script to execute. Numbers indicate 'pillage the miners ver.b7' is optimal and simply tells the rats to ignore the drones and combat ships so they can scram and kill any barges mining frigs or cruisers based off the data. All done with just a few lines of code and a few script calls. (and tons of Q&A bug fixing.) inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 14:18:00 - [26] Originally by: Mihaill Blackthorn Forces an aggressor to seek you out? What crap statement is that? You know darn good and well if there is no local all the groups will do is sit on the gate and gank over and over like it's an npc spawn. Gate? What gate.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 14:32:00 - [27] Edited by: Zeba on 02/02/2009 14:34:23 Originally by: CCP Prism X Greyscale and Abathur actually had an awesome design for the on-board scanner. The only way I could describe it in few words is: Submarine combat. Picket probes. Probes that have a long duration passive mode to listen for any electronic signals ie active search probes or built in scanners. Second mode is short range short duration mass detection to sit near a known wormhole or in your mining belt/plex/whatever to register any incoming ships including cloaked. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 14:38:00 - [28] Originally by: Par'Gellen Think about it. We are. Notice all the brainstorming going on? Care to add a few ideas of your own?
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.02 14:50:00 - [29] Originally by: Liz Laser I can't help but feel that this is simply a disguised "miners and ratters exist solely to be ganked" thread. I'll admit that local is a weird game mechanic, but ganking (or at least halting/disrupting) mining ops is already way too easy REGARDLESS of the existence of local. Good thing we are only talking about w-space and not empire. Besides the rats are going to be much much moar of a constant nusance than a random gang of pirates who just happened to scan out the 1 w-system out of 2500 that has you in it. I think people are still thinking in terms of a set connection of systems and not the totaly random connections that will be what happens when you scan from k space to w space.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.04 11:24:00 - [30] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Razin Originally by: Goumindong I never said that "local was the cure for blobbing" i said that if you reduce the information in the system people will blob more. That is pretty simple and incontrovertible. I controverted your supposition in my post above. Turns out there's nothing "incontrovertible" about it. However it was simple, or rather - simplistic. For some strange reason you also refuse to consider that the 'missing' Local intel would be provided by a different system at some reasonable compromise. Because this whole thread is "remove local now put in an alternative when there is time, but it is not important". The pro post are almost all about how it will be wonderful to remove local, without proposing any alternate system. Actually this thread if you had bothered to read the op is about getting ccp to make this feature a develpoment priority not lulz just do it nao. What others have tried to pervert the thread into be it a twitch 'omg don't take local from empire/0.0' or trying to use k-space logic to argue about known w-space mechanics or other deveations are out of my control. Can ccp pull it off by launch? I have no idea but surely having over 10000 views with the vast majority in aggrement is going to tell ccp that hey maybe this feature is indeed a higher priority than they/we thought. Besides they seems pretty confident they can pull off other stuff like totally redoing the probe mechanics before launch if this quote is any indication. So I guess the real question should be if four weeks is enough to form another scrum team to impliment the needed mechanics to make a delayed local in w-space a viable proposition. Originally by: CCP Whisper Originally by: Tabare Vazquez Good to know that design has not been finalized six weeks before Apocrypha hits Tranquility. Originally by: Raymon James its what 6 weeks untill this goes live and you havent gotten to that bit yet? yeep! For Apocrypha we have been split into teams, each with its own programmers, designers and QA staff (we're working according to Agile and Scrum project management methodology). In the last six weeks my team have built a new scanning system, added 2500 solar systems to New Eden, worked out the mechanics to get pilots there and back and designed the implementation of the game content in the W-systems. The artists attached to the team have created some amazing models and content which is unlike anything you have seen before. You may think six weeks is not a lot of time, but my experience from the last month and a half is that my team is able to complete their tasks and then some. They have responded within a day to problems requiring reworking of game designs. They even managed to put in some improvements that were not strictly speaking part of their remit, simply because they realised it was possible and decided to go for it without ever losing sight of the main objective. I am extremely proud of what we have achieved and I have full confidence in their abilities to not only finish this feature but adapt it based on feedback. We have six weeks to release. This feature will be awesome. You can do it CCP we have faith in you!
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.04 16:04:00 - [31] Originally by: prodalt Originally by: Razin Originally by: Goumindong I never said that "local was the cure for blobbing" i said that if you reduce the information in the system people will blob more. That is pretty simple and incontrovertible. I controverted your supposition in my post above. Turns out there's nothing "incontrovertible" about it. However it was simple, or rather - simplistic. Saying something is so is not the same as it being so. You've made no logical support as to why blobbing will not increase. Its very simple economics. If you increase the cost of an activity, the activity will be pursued less and activities which mitigate those costs more will increase in frequency. So care to explain to me how you do the standard k-space blob tactics using infinite mass permaconnect stargates and capship spamming cynos in a w-space system with no cynos and limited access due to running out of mass closing the randomly spawning wormhole?
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.04 19:43:00 - [32] Originally by: Goumindong Its pretty easy, you bring more ships. How? You can't cyno in any ships and the mass allowance might not let you bring enough ships to outnumber the locals already in the system. You can bring a prober to find another entrance once inside to get moar ships in but that is no guarrentee it will be anywhere near your k-space stranded memmbers. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.04 20:05:00 - [33] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Goumindong Its pretty easy, you bring more ships. How? You can't cyno in any ships and the mass allowance might not let you bring enough ships to outnumber the locals already in the system. You can bring a prober to find another entrance once inside to get moar ships in but that is no guarrentee it will be anywhere near your k-space stranded memmbers. How did they get more ships into the system than you? A: the same way you get more ships into the system than them How is them getting more ships into the system than you not blobbing? I mean really, "it won't be blobbing because we can only get 150 cruisers into the system at a time!"? 150? Thats like 1,680,000,000 in mass or in laymans terms not gonna happen even with the rarest of high mass wormholes. Point is it will take lots of effort that the normal pvp roamers are not going to be arsed to do to bring crushing numbers to a fight in w-space and that alone will cut down on the simplistic cyno/blob mechanics so loved in k-space in addition to any others blob killing mechanics that are revealed in the coming weeks. You know those mechanics, the ones the goons swear by, the vastly bigger fleet that warps around unrestricted from system to system looking for some tidbits to pwn then they warp to a gate and pwn the 4 campers who were semi-afk and didn't notice local jump or whatever totally outnumbered pvp situation you can think up. Now 20 ships vs 30 ships in a w-system will not be a blob just a good fight. And I know I shouldn't be argueing with you cause your just going to spout some other twitch nonsense in the endless circle of troll but damnit its so easy to counter your every 'argument' I just can't help myself.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.04 20:19:00 - [34] Originally by: Venkul Mul As usual you are very expert in spewing false facts. 10.000 readers, 254 post with your, a lot of them from the same people, about 50% favorable, 10% against, the other comments. Way different from "over 10000 views with the vast majority in agreement". BTW: I have read your OP, your title and your other post. They sum up to "remove local from W-space now. I don't care for any replacement". The whole of favorable posts in the thread sum up to "Remove local. I don't care for any replacement". Its called statistics. The same logic that the Nelson ratings use to sample a very small population to get an overall indication of the mass viewers inclinations. Works exactly the same for the forums. 10000+ views mean lots of people are reading it and with very little opposition, except for you and some random argumentative goons, everyone and (be sure to pay attention this next part is key) the Devs are in agreement that as soon as a viable mechanic is found to replace the functionality of local for w-space they will impliment it. Also there is no w-space now so I can't force them to put it in NAO as there are still 4 weeks left to properly develop the expansion. So the result is I and the majority of others want it to happen when w-space hits on march 10. The devs have already stated that the time left is moar than enought to do stuff like completely redo probe mechanics by launch and that no local for w-space was a desired feature but was not a high enough priority. Well now we know it is in fact a high priority so maybe ccp can pull another scrum team together and have it ready for m10? That is all I have asked for the entire thread. That ccp reconsider their descision and allocate a scrum team to put it in. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.04 21:14:00 - [35] Originally by: Sky Marshal W-Space don't have to have Local, but in all others regions... Local is fine. Thanks for agreeing as w-space is the only place being debated in this thread regardless of all the efforts to draw it into a general 'onos no local 4 lowse/0.0??!? omgomg noooo!' circular argument.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.19 09:07:00 - [36] From another wormhole thread: Originally by: CCP Whisper Originally by: Dr Resheph That sounds like your name only shows up if you speak. But calling it delayed mode implies it'll show up after x minutes. Which is it? "Delayed Mode" is our term for functionality whereby your portrait only shows up in local chat once you have said something. There is no timer. It is entirely dependent on whether or not you say something in the channel. Victory! \0/ Thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you! CCP Rocks! Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.19 10:28:00 - [37] Originally by: CyberGh0st Social interaction will suffer, find a solution for that 1st imho. Well its pretty apparent from test server results that w-space is going to be a team activity for even the low end systems so you will always have your corp mates to interact with. Anyone else is the system is a potential hostile so your not really going to want to interact with them and give up the fact there is indeed someone else in the system. Now once combat initiates you can of course do all the normal 'social interaction' in local that is so adorable in moast pvp encounters. Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.19 10:58:00 - [38] Originally by: Tammaria Snegallja (without reading 10 pages) Well then you kind of missed the point that this thread is about w-space and not normal space. Local is still the same for empire and nullsec. Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.19 13:53:00 - [39] Whoa.. Jebus almighty Cypher Creed, thats a lot of text arguing about something that hasn't even happened yet or even planned to happen anytime soon. This thread is for wormhole space local only. Empire and nullsec are still using the normal local mechanics and will for quite some time to come. Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.19 14:12:00 - [40] Originally by: Lexandrius Megens Perhaps i missed something Yes you did because thats exactly how it works. Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.19 14:19:00 - [41] Edited by: Zeba on 19/02/2009 14:24:23 Originally by: Lexandrius Megens \0/ Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.19 15:37:00 - [42] Originally by: Zackalwe Just removing local and not replacing it with anything else is fail. Here let Prism X explain it out for you. Yay! Got meh sig back! ♥ Weatherman

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