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Wingshard
Ikazuchi and Raikou Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.05 02:57:00 -
[1]
t2 ships are not made out of the "average" minerals to a big part. some even purely.
and when you have a look on market for...well lets take the strongest example "dysprosium" you will see a constant rise in its price.
rise in price of dysprosium -> rise in price of advanced materials which need dysprosium -> rise in price of complex materials that need it OR advanced materials with dysprosium
-> rise in price of t2 shipcomponents -> rise in price of t2 shipminerals.
all you can do is "rise above" :P *quote needed to be ^^*
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Wingshard
Ikazuchi and Raikou Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.06 07:54:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Dro Nee
Originally by: Wingshard
t2 ships are not made out of the "average" minerals to a big part. some even purely.
and when you have a look on market for...well lets take the strongest example "dysprosium" you will see a constant rise in its price.
rise in price of dysprosium -> rise in price of advanced materials which need dysprosium -> rise in price of complex materials that need it OR advanced materials with dysprosium
-> rise in price of t2 shipcomponents -> rise in price of t2 shipminerals.
all you can do is "rise above" :P *quote needed to be ^^*
Heh.
Haha.
HAHA
BAHAHAHAHAHA!
Yeah... rise in production costs is why final sale prices have increased so dramatically on certain items.
Good thing everyone had HUGE stockpiles of the less useful t2 items.... those costs have not gone up at all! 
Dont like the price's? Dont buy the ships. No demand= lower prices. This is why i wont buy another af, not because i cant afford it but because the markup is re-dunk-u-lus.
you should think before laughing.
exspecial the
"...of the less useful t2 items.... those costs have not gone up at all!".
its supply and demand after all and if you think hard enough you mind come to the conclusion that if its allready "less useful" someone wont mind buying an even cheaper product with even less use just because it costs less.
so supply and demand affects greatly here.
to that comes that someone should know how it comes to those "less useful" product.
for example is falcon a ship really much used. but if you invent you not only got a % chance to fail you also got a % chance the a rook comes out. that brings you an oversupply in lessdemanded goods even through you tried to fill in the market.... which results in people willing to sell it in lower prices to get their money back in for new inventions... rense and repeat.
and back for the op:
the recent price for t1 ships used for inventions spiked on the higher demand aswell. not everywhere but special in the forge, domain, well mainhub regions, which just adds even more production costs that would drag profit if it wasnt burdened on the consuments. |
Wingshard
Ikazuchi and Raikou Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.06 20:55:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Dro Nee
Or perhaps you should think before posting.
Your second post has it right when you say "its all supply and demand", but this is a fundamentally different point than saying it is the price of the minerals/components needed. If the former is what you meant then i agree... but you still fail at communication. If the latter is what you ultimately find as the root cause then you need to re-evaluate your claim.
Case and point: A buddy is making minmatar AF's. It costs him (with current mineral/component prices and less then perfect skills) about 11mil for the whole process. He sells at market avg. of 20mil/ship. This is in stark contrast to the price minmatar AF's sold for 1.5-2 years ago. While the COST has gone up over time I admit, it is hardly proportional to the selling prices that we now find. Which pretty much negates your "it cost us soooo much to make t2 now" line.
think before posting...good idea try to do that next time.
supply and demand IS what changes the component prices aswell. do i really have to write that extra?
aswell as, that other "normal" marketbehavior applys to eve. and that is if the price increases for raw material you increase the price of the end product and stay at or *as a lot industrys in rl as in Eve do* even have increased income from that higher price.
and about the rest well.... your buddy might produce it for 11m and sell for 20m but do you think he would do it if the profit was so slim that it wasnt worth it? exactly... NO! and that price is to more than 50% demanded by t2 material prices which need moon minerals.
everything that needs a moon mineral to be build will go up in price when the raw material *moon mineral* goes up in price. no one will do business without win. this way it slowly climbs upwards until it reaches the endproduct "ships".
not to mention the price for assault frigs went down and not up thanks to invention. because the supply was limited to the few bpo that existed that time. so a person owning it could singlehandly close that market except for the allready given out goods.
if your "cost" statement only reflects recent events i will point once again at the "would you do it if you wouldnt earn from it"?
invention and manufacturing t2 ships is just not worth it if you dont get the right chunk of money from it.
sure i can invent... *takes 12h+ for frigs with laboratory, bigger ships even longer*... produce *well lets wait another 24h or even several days shall we?*.... and than sell it.
but for 4-5 or even more days i put into it i wouldnt do it for low profit.
and seeing just another spike in dysprosium you can be more than sure that the prices will rise even further since t2 industry is just another foodchain. with rare moon minerals at the top demanding the price. the real problem is the base through since the demand for a ship is ever there aslong it useful and a lot people maybe hate buying to higher prices but none the less they do.
even worse is you cant blame them for it since its a game and they pay for time and so they wanna get the most out of it.
but the people who got the isk and demand the price have time therefore they are free to rise it as it fits. and an economy reason ist just welcomed by them. |
Wingshard
Ikazuchi and Raikou Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.06 22:45:00 -
[4]
adding some more content:
*taken from jita*
dysprosium price last month 156k per unit
dysprosium price today - 192k per unit
increase of 36k.
dysprosium
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Dysprorite & Ferrofluid - Ferrogel
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Hypersynaptic Fibers &
Fermionic Condensates
so lets see...
just taking the dysprosium price for ferrogel:
old:
(156k*100)/200 = 78000
(78000*100)/400 = 19500 isk ferrogel price.
new:
(192k*100)/200 = 96000
(24000*100)/400 = 24000 isk ferrogel price.
stil thinking 5k aint much? well lets go on...
I will take the hawk as example.
Hawk needs the following parts which need each 1 ferrogel to be done:
Magpulse Thruster *45
Graviton Reactor Unit *60
Sustained Shield Emitter *60
the numbers of the parts needed are taken with the average invention -4 me.
so now we have 165*5k dragging allready nearly 1million of our win.
if you now start counting in that along every step to the building of ferrogel the party doing it adds at a little price on top to make win *and note that doing it yourself will also cost you pos fuel + the start investment of setting up the infrastructure, time shipping stuff aswell as having a close eye on market and your pos and what not all...*
you easy come up by a 1-3m change.
and considering this is only the change of price of a single moon mineral you may want to consider your point of "irrelevant", not to mention this was an assault frig - while bigger ships need loads and loads more of the same/similar parts which again means demand and just another spike in price.
also when your product made 9m win before and now you are cut by 1/3 of that well... if you had the possibilty wouldnt you raise the price ;)?
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