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Zivoril
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Posted - 2009.02.04 18:54:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Zivoril on 04/02/2009 18:55:57
I finally had to make a post regarding isk prices in regards to ship buying/after witnessing, what I think is sooo ironic/twlightzoneish errr wierd!
The example: So you are watching ship prices for lets say an Ishtar for a couple of days its been about 80 mil to 85. A third day it jumped to 90, ehhh No big deal.
Now on the forth day you're ready to fly to Jita sell your things and buy your Ishtar.
Ok, heres where it gets weird! You sell all your stuff, and get about 95 mil, youre thinking YEAH!!!!!!!!
But, now when you go to check Ishtar prices THE DAMN SHIP IS 105 MIL And you have 95! WTF - the past 3 days its was 85-90?????
So, Ive seen this many, many ,many times---Hmm me thinks EVEs program is designed to see what ISK you have then reflect items/ships higher than what you have??
Naaaaaaaaaaaa, Its a player run economy and 200,000 player are makeing the prices change. So I then relax- errrrrrrrrrrrrr wait. Why I ask myself does this seem to happen everytime?
Dooo deeee doooo doooo Dooo deee dooo doooo- sorry bad Twlight zone music. |
Marc Bastalle
Prometheus Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.04 18:56:00 -
[2]
It's true. CCP hates you and doesn't want you to have an Ishtar.
Honest. |
Dark Soldat
Caldari
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2009.02.04 19:05:00 -
[3]
its a secret nerf so when people stop whining on falcons they wouldnt start whine ths ishtar. |
Amerilia
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Posted - 2009.02.04 19:16:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Amerilia on 04/02/2009 19:16:58
 Originally by: Zivoril
Edited by: Zivoril on 04/02/2009 18:55:57
I finally had to make a post regarding isk prices in regards to ship buying/after witnessing, what I think is sooo ironic/twlightzoneish errr wierd!
The example: So you are watching ship prices for lets say an Ishtar for a couple of days its been about 80 mil to 85. A third day it jumped to 90, ehhh No big deal.
Now on the forth day you're ready to fly to Jita sell your things and buy your Ishtar.
Ok, heres where it gets weird! You sell all your stuff, and get about 95 mil, youre thinking YEAH!!!!!!!!
But, now when you go to check Ishtar prices THE DAMN SHIP IS 105 MIL And you have 95! WTF - the past 3 days its was 85-90?????
So, Ive seen this many, many ,many times---Hmm me thinks EVEs program is designed to see what ISK you have then reflect items/ships higher than what you have??
Naaaaaaaaaaaa, Its a player run economy and 200,000 player are makeing the prices change. So I then relax- errrrrrrrrrrrrr wait. Why I ask myself does this seem to happen everytime?
Dooo deeee doooo doooo Dooo deee dooo doooo- sorry bad Twlight zone music.
They are heavily used in the Alliance tournament. People buy them. The participants for one, but people who want to try them too. Demands rise, price rise. |
Armoured Gamer
Gallente
Globaltech Industries
The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2009.02.04 19:18:00 -
[5]
ZE LOGS THEY SHOW NOTHING!!!!!!11!1!!!!
My main has the flu but i am still here
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Schalac
Caldari
Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2009.02.04 19:23:00 -
[6]
Fly to other hubs and check prices there maybe??? Just a thought because I have never played the market myself.....................
SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN |
Faife
Federation of Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2009.02.04 19:40:00 -
[7]
i like the ishtar, it's a good drone ship, even post nerf. |
Zivoril
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Posted - 2009.02.05 00:19:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Zivoril on 05/02/2009 00:22:01
Edited by: Zivoril on 05/02/2009 00:20:21
Edited by: Zivoril on 05/02/2009 00:19:57
Wow, every single player except one- who posted is a ret-rd. I made a open topic regarding general prices on ships, and used a Ishtar in a EXAMPLE, yet those who did post...
1) didnt read the post.
2) Saw Ishtar and lost their mind.
3) Are the simple mindless negative arse/blowhards who are first to respond to any thread (TROLLS) but, think they are to cool
Im going with 3 folks! |
Alora Venoda
GalTech
Whiskey Creek Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.05 00:23:00 -
[9]
well that's Jita for you... moon mineral prices do the same thing btw. |
Random Womble
Minmatar
Master Miners
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Posted - 2009.02.05 00:34:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Alora Venoda
well that's Jita for you... moon mineral prices do the same thing btw.
actually moon mineral prices are being heavily manipulated atm by some rich people its quite intresting to watch.
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MooKids
Caldari
Dark Echo Engineering
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Posted - 2009.02.05 00:36:00 -
[11]
Damn CCP for making a free market economy!
--------------------------------
CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity. |
EnslaverOfMinmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.05 01:06:00 -
[12]
Genesis Yulai X - DED Assembly Plant (1.0) ? 90,000,000.00 2 2009-04-23 01-30 02:27:17
The Forge Jita IV - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant (0.9) ? 92,300,010.99 1 2009-05-02 02-01 01:05:22
Sinq Laison Parchanier VI - Core Complexion Inc. Warehouse (0.6) ? 93,000,000.00 1 2009-04-18 02-04 05:55:32
Sinq Laison Balle VII - Moon 17 - Center for Advanced Studies School (0.5) ? 93,500,000.00 3 2009-02-25 02-04 05:55:32
The Citadel Ishomilken IX - Moon 12 - Mercantile Club Bureau (0.4) ? 93,999,997.00 1 2009-05-02 02-03 19:25:45
Tash-Murkon Paye VI - Moon 1 - Imperial Academy School (0.6) ? 93,999,999.99 5 2009-05-01 02-02 02:38:10
Sinq Laison Balle VII - Moon 17 - Center for Advanced Studies School (0.5) ? 94,000,000.00 1 2009-02-25 02-04 05:55:32
http://eve-central.com/home/quicklook.html?typeid=12005 |
Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.02.05 01:09:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 05/02/2009 01:08:58
If you have to sell all your assets to get the Ishtar you're doing it wrong. Consider yourself lucky that it climbed out of your price range, and use the ISK for something else (Dominix.) |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.02.05 01:16:00 -
[14]
Someone please suicide gank the OP when he gets his Ishtar. |
Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Divinity's Edge
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Posted - 2009.02.05 01:50:00 -
[15]
You could check the prices next time, before you run your dumb ass over to the nearest hub. |
Wingshard
Ikazuchi and Raikou Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.05 02:57:00 -
[16]
t2 ships are not made out of the "average" minerals to a big part. some even purely.
and when you have a look on market for...well lets take the strongest example "dysprosium" you will see a constant rise in its price.
rise in price of dysprosium -> rise in price of advanced materials which need dysprosium -> rise in price of complex materials that need it OR advanced materials with dysprosium
-> rise in price of t2 shipcomponents -> rise in price of t2 shipminerals.
all you can do is "rise above" :P *quote needed to be ^^*
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DeODokktor
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
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Posted - 2009.02.05 10:37:00 -
[17]
Generally speaking, if your having to cash out your tech1 ship to buy a tech2 ship then you probably dont have the isk to yet move into such a ship because your just not ready!... What I find interesting is that you can fly a tech2 cruiser yet you cant afford it :/...
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Dreadmuppet Four
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Posted - 2009.02.05 11:35:00 -
[18]
use buy orders
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.05 11:38:00 -
[19]
I am sure the fact that Isthars have been used in the alliance tournament has no effect on the price at all 
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Writ Insand
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Posted - 2009.02.05 12:15:00 -
[20]
The market manipulation in Jita had been rather crazy lately - it seems like it's almost a 50/50 chance whether the price of any particular item has been jacked up by market manipulation lately.
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Psiri
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Posted - 2009.02.05 12:30:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
I am sure the fact that Isthars have been used in the alliance tournament has no effect on the price at all
The ishtar and the fleet stab.
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Ikserak tai
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Posted - 2009.02.05 16:03:00 -
[22]
If you gotta have it RIGHT NOW then expect to pay a higher price. If you can wait for a good deal to come around, you'll save some Isk.
Since you're going to want to put some rigs on that pretty Ishtar, you might want to check out the contracts to see if one is equipped with rigs you expect to use. Invariably, the total cost will save you some serious Isk off of the market value of the ship and rigs separately. (I'm assuming you don't have the capacity to mfr your own rigs).
You can check contracts for any region in-game, you'd be surprised what deals you can get when someone is tired of a rigged ship and wants to dump it fast. |
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
Minmatar
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
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Posted - 2009.02.05 23:40:00 -
[23]
Even though to OP mentioned it again, although not very nicely... he doesn't care about the Ishtar (it was just an example), people still are commenting about him having to be more carefull, check the fittings, buy another ship, wait for a better deal.
He is merely commeting that prices are rising.
Few people seemed to have noticed this and have commented that the market is indeed being played by people richer than most.
My comment: Welcome to the wonderful world of Capitalism.
And for all you folks that still think this thread is about IShtars.... back to grade-school for you... or visit your optician. |
SadisticSavior
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.05 23:50:00 -
[24]
Edited by: SadisticSavior on 05/02/2009 23:53:05
Yeah, if you're having to bankrupt yourself to buy the ship, it might have been a little premature anyway.
The exact opposite happened when I bought my Rokh a few weeks ago...I was expecting $135 million and it turned out to be $127 million. So it goes both ways.
Quote:
If you gotta have it RIGHT NOW then expect to pay a higher price. If you can wait for a good deal to come around, you'll save some Isk.
Since you're going to want to put some rigs on that pretty Ishtar, you might want to check out the contracts to see if one is equipped with rigs you expect to use.
Wow, you can buy a ship pre-rigged?
I thought you had to repackage ships to sell them, and that process destroyed the rigs.
("Fascist" is such an ugly word) |
Dro Nee
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Posted - 2009.02.06 01:52:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Wingshard
t2 ships are not made out of the "average" minerals to a big part. some even purely.
and when you have a look on market for...well lets take the strongest example "dysprosium" you will see a constant rise in its price.
rise in price of dysprosium -> rise in price of advanced materials which need dysprosium -> rise in price of complex materials that need it OR advanced materials with dysprosium
-> rise in price of t2 shipcomponents -> rise in price of t2 shipminerals.
all you can do is "rise above" :P *quote needed to be ^^*
Heh.
Haha.
HAHA
BAHAHAHAHAHA!
Yeah... rise in production costs is why final sale prices have increased so dramatically on certain items.
Good thing everyone had HUGE stockpiles of the less useful t2 items.... those costs have not gone up at all! 
Dont like the price's? Dont buy the ships. No demand= lower prices. This is why i wont buy another af, not because i cant afford it but because the markup is re-dunk-u-lus.
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ZebedeeUK
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Posted - 2009.02.06 02:26:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Zivoril
Edited by: Zivoril on 04/02/2009 18:55:57
I finally had to make a post regarding isk prices in regards to ship buying/after witnessing, what I think is sooo ironic/twlightzoneish errr wierd!
The example: So you are watching ship prices for lets say an Ishtar for a couple of days its been about 80 mil to 85. A third day it jumped to 90, ehhh No big deal.
Now on the forth day you're ready to fly to Jita sell your things and buy your Ishtar.
Ok, heres where it gets weird! You sell all your stuff, and get about 95 mil, youre thinking YEAH!!!!!!!!
But, now when you go to check Ishtar prices THE DAMN SHIP IS 105 MIL And you have 95! WTF - the past 3 days its was 85-90?????
So, Ive seen this many, many ,many times---Hmm me thinks EVEs program is designed to see what ISK you have then reflect items/ships higher than what you have??
Naaaaaaaaaaaa, Its a player run economy and 200,000 player are makeing the prices change. So I then relax- errrrrrrrrrrrrr wait. Why I ask myself does this seem to happen everytime?
Dooo deeee doooo doooo Dooo deee dooo doooo- sorry bad Twlight zone music.
Yes - every single Eve player has a secret button to allow them to see your ISK total so that they can quickly raise the price, fail to sell you a ship and make no money.... |
Terianna Eri
Amarr
Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.02.06 04:04:00 -
[27]
OP's post is hilariously stupid.
Originally by: SadisticSavior
Wow, you can buy a ship pre-rigged?
I thought you had to repackage ships to sell them, and that process destroyed the rigs.
You can't buy them on the market no, and you're correct in that only packaged ships can be put on the market, and also that repackaging destroys rigs.
However for expensive/uncommon/commonly rigged ships, you can often find them on contracts. Battleships with 3x CCC are a good example.
__________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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BiggestT
Caldari
Resurrection
Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.02.06 04:24:00 -
[28]
Edited by: BiggestT on 06/02/2009 04:25:44
I personally think it cld be a result from a loss of moon mins from the pos exploit being found.
The same thing is resultant for nighthawks, before the pos 'sploit, they were around 175mill cheapest, now they are around 200mill.
However that could also be a result of more mission runners buying them up for the handy precision bonus after the missile nerf, as cruise are less effective agaisnt non-bs now. Personally I find this amazing that ppl wld think this, I ran a cpl lev 4's the other day and hammerheads eat anything sub-bs while cruise melt the bs. I dont use a tp or explo vel. rigs etc..Hmmm
EVE history
t2 precisions |
Kendrix Arathan
Minmatar
N00bs With Guns
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Posted - 2009.02.06 04:53:00 -
[29]
Given his usage of the word "ironic" I'm guessing the OP is Alanis Morissette |
Niko Takahashi
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Posted - 2009.02.06 05:25:00 -
[30]
My personal favorite when average price on a CNR was 340 I got mine for 249 millions :D
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Wingshard
Ikazuchi and Raikou Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.06 07:54:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Dro Nee
Originally by: Wingshard
t2 ships are not made out of the "average" minerals to a big part. some even purely.
and when you have a look on market for...well lets take the strongest example "dysprosium" you will see a constant rise in its price.
rise in price of dysprosium -> rise in price of advanced materials which need dysprosium -> rise in price of complex materials that need it OR advanced materials with dysprosium
-> rise in price of t2 shipcomponents -> rise in price of t2 shipminerals.
all you can do is "rise above" :P *quote needed to be ^^*
Heh.
Haha.
HAHA
BAHAHAHAHAHA!
Yeah... rise in production costs is why final sale prices have increased so dramatically on certain items.
Good thing everyone had HUGE stockpiles of the less useful t2 items.... those costs have not gone up at all!
Dont like the price's? Dont buy the ships. No demand= lower prices. This is why i wont buy another af, not because i cant afford it but because the markup is re-dunk-u-lus.
you should think before laughing.
exspecial the
"...of the less useful t2 items.... those costs have not gone up at all!".
its supply and demand after all and if you think hard enough you mind come to the conclusion that if its allready "less useful" someone wont mind buying an even cheaper product with even less use just because it costs less.
so supply and demand affects greatly here.
to that comes that someone should know how it comes to those "less useful" product.
for example is falcon a ship really much used. but if you invent you not only got a % chance to fail you also got a % chance the a rook comes out. that brings you an oversupply in lessdemanded goods even through you tried to fill in the market.... which results in people willing to sell it in lower prices to get their money back in for new inventions... rense and repeat.
and back for the op:
the recent price for t1 ships used for inventions spiked on the higher demand aswell. not everywhere but special in the forge, domain, well mainhub regions, which just adds even more production costs that would drag profit if it wasnt burdened on the consuments. |
Osiris Andras
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Posted - 2009.02.06 08:19:00 -
[32]
I thought they changed inventing ages back so you could choose what you were inventing towards??
Yes the prices are rising. This could just be because of the rise in moon min prices, the tournement showcasing certain fittings which people are target buying, or just the inflation hitting as more and more people do level 4 missions.
Of course this could be a big sign of the recession hitting your favourite MMO. food for thought. |
Dro Nee
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Posted - 2009.02.06 17:53:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Wingshard
you should think before laughing.
exspecial the
"...of the less useful t2 items.... those costs have not gone up at all!".
its supply and demand after all and if you think hard enough you mind come to the conclusion that if its allready "less useful" someone wont mind buying an even cheaper product with even less use just because it costs less.
so supply and demand affects greatly here.
to that comes that someone should know how it comes to those "less useful" product.
for example is falcon a ship really much used. but if you invent you not only got a % chance to fail you also got a % chance the a rook comes out. that brings you an oversupply in lessdemanded goods even through you tried to fill in the market.... which results in people willing to sell it in lower prices to get their money back in for new inventions... rense and repeat.
and back for the op:
the recent price for t1 ships used for inventions spiked on the higher demand aswell. not everywhere but special in the forge, domain, well mainhub regions, which just adds even more production costs that would drag profit if it wasnt burdened on the consuments.[/quote
Or perhaps you should think before posting.
Your second post has it right when you say "its all supply and demand", but this is a fundamentally different point than saying it is the price of the minerals/components needed. If the former is what you meant then i agree... but you still fail at communication. If the latter is what you ultimately find as the root cause then you need to re-evaluate your claim.
Case and point: A buddy is making minmatar AF's. It costs him (with current mineral/component prices and less then perfect skills) about 11mil for the whole process. He sells at market avg. of 20mil/ship. This is in stark contrast to the price minmatar AF's sold for 1.5-2 years ago. While the COST has gone up over time I admit, it is hardly proportional to the selling prices that we now find. Which pretty much negates your "it cost us soooo much to make t2 now" line.
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Ghengis Tia
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Posted - 2009.02.06 19:59:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
Even though to OP mentioned it again, although not very nicely... he doesn't care about the Ishtar (it was just an example), people still are commenting about him having to be more carefull, check the fittings, buy another ship, wait for a better deal.
He is merely commeting that prices are rising.
Few people seemed to have noticed this and have commented that the market is indeed being played by people richer than most.
My comment: Welcome to the wonderful world of Capitalism.
And for all you folks that still think this thread is about IShtars.... back to grade-school for you... or visit your optician.
Thanks, I needed that. Chastisement received and advice on reading posts noted.
Rigged ships can be a deal, as I pointed out. And CNR's have dropped from 380M 4 months ago to around 240M now. (contracts in the Forge and Citadel). Really itching to buy a few at this price for speculation, as they really don't fly much different than before QR.
Looking at the contract price of Navy Ravens and Caracals is baffling, as the LP cost, etc., mean people are giving away their LP's selling them so low. Even the BP's take a lot of LP's, not to mention the cost of materials to build the ship. Unless I'm missing something, these ships are a real value.
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Wingshard
Ikazuchi and Raikou Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.06 20:55:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Dro Nee
Or perhaps you should think before posting.
Your second post has it right when you say "its all supply and demand", but this is a fundamentally different point than saying it is the price of the minerals/components needed. If the former is what you meant then i agree... but you still fail at communication. If the latter is what you ultimately find as the root cause then you need to re-evaluate your claim.
Case and point: A buddy is making minmatar AF's. It costs him (with current mineral/component prices and less then perfect skills) about 11mil for the whole process. He sells at market avg. of 20mil/ship. This is in stark contrast to the price minmatar AF's sold for 1.5-2 years ago. While the COST has gone up over time I admit, it is hardly proportional to the selling prices that we now find. Which pretty much negates your "it cost us soooo much to make t2 now" line.
think before posting...good idea try to do that next time.
supply and demand IS what changes the component prices aswell. do i really have to write that extra?
aswell as, that other "normal" marketbehavior applys to eve. and that is if the price increases for raw material you increase the price of the end product and stay at or *as a lot industrys in rl as in Eve do* even have increased income from that higher price.
and about the rest well.... your buddy might produce it for 11m and sell for 20m but do you think he would do it if the profit was so slim that it wasnt worth it? exactly... NO! and that price is to more than 50% demanded by t2 material prices which need moon minerals.
everything that needs a moon mineral to be build will go up in price when the raw material *moon mineral* goes up in price. no one will do business without win. this way it slowly climbs upwards until it reaches the endproduct "ships".
not to mention the price for assault frigs went down and not up thanks to invention. because the supply was limited to the few bpo that existed that time. so a person owning it could singlehandly close that market except for the allready given out goods.
if your "cost" statement only reflects recent events i will point once again at the "would you do it if you wouldnt earn from it"?
invention and manufacturing t2 ships is just not worth it if you dont get the right chunk of money from it.
sure i can invent... *takes 12h+ for frigs with laboratory, bigger ships even longer*... produce *well lets wait another 24h or even several days shall we?*.... and than sell it.
but for 4-5 or even more days i put into it i wouldnt do it for low profit.
and seeing just another spike in dysprosium you can be more than sure that the prices will rise even further since t2 industry is just another foodchain. with rare moon minerals at the top demanding the price. the real problem is the base through since the demand for a ship is ever there aslong it useful and a lot people maybe hate buying to higher prices but none the less they do.
even worse is you cant blame them for it since its a game and they pay for time and so they wanna get the most out of it.
but the people who got the isk and demand the price have time therefore they are free to rise it as it fits. and an economy reason ist just welcomed by them. |
Wingshard
Ikazuchi and Raikou Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.06 22:45:00 -
[36]
adding some more content:
*taken from jita*
dysprosium price last month 156k per unit
dysprosium price today - 192k per unit
increase of 36k.
dysprosium
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Dysprorite & Ferrofluid - Ferrogel
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Hypersynaptic Fibers &
Fermionic Condensates
so lets see...
just taking the dysprosium price for ferrogel:
old:
(156k*100)/200 = 78000
(78000*100)/400 = 19500 isk ferrogel price.
new:
(192k*100)/200 = 96000
(24000*100)/400 = 24000 isk ferrogel price.
stil thinking 5k aint much? well lets go on...
I will take the hawk as example.
Hawk needs the following parts which need each 1 ferrogel to be done:
Magpulse Thruster *45
Graviton Reactor Unit *60
Sustained Shield Emitter *60
the numbers of the parts needed are taken with the average invention -4 me.
so now we have 165*5k dragging allready nearly 1million of our win.
if you now start counting in that along every step to the building of ferrogel the party doing it adds at a little price on top to make win *and note that doing it yourself will also cost you pos fuel + the start investment of setting up the infrastructure, time shipping stuff aswell as having a close eye on market and your pos and what not all...*
you easy come up by a 1-3m change.
and considering this is only the change of price of a single moon mineral you may want to consider your point of "irrelevant", not to mention this was an assault frig - while bigger ships need loads and loads more of the same/similar parts which again means demand and just another spike in price.
also when your product made 9m win before and now you are cut by 1/3 of that well... if you had the possibilty wouldnt you raise the price ;)?
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