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soul sanitarium
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Posted - 2009.02.07 04:53:00 -
[1]
I have been kicking around off and on for a couple years now and I am curious. With the Orca and rorqual(sp) is the hulk still the top dog for mining?
I can fly a Hulk now, But would it be worth my time to train into an Orca? |
Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.02.07 05:03:00 -
[2]
Well given what you can do with a Hulk + Orca combo as is mathwise the only thing up from that would be a ship that simply tractors roids directly into the cargo hold.
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soul sanitarium
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Posted - 2009.02.07 05:08:00 -
[3]
Let me add as of this point in time I am solo.
I do not know what the capabilities of the Orca are, Can it mine as a Hulk can or is it just a floating station to drop off ore at?
I know this is kind of a newbish question so all appoligies in advance. I have searched the internet for info on this ship and have not come up with any.
Thanks for the time in responding.
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Van Soll
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Posted - 2009.02.07 05:11:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Van Soll on 07/02/2009 05:11:42
Originally by: soul sanitarium
I do not know what the capabilities of the Orca are, Can it mine as a Hulk can or is it just a floating station to drop off ore at?
No the Orca cannot mine, unless you put 5 mining drones into its drone bay...
To answer your question, if you're solo then yes the Hulk is as far as you are going for now.
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Lil Orphan
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Posted - 2009.02.07 06:56:00 -
[5]
The next step up from solo Hulk is is using alts to pilot mining support ships. It is not an easy thing to make mining alone worth the expense of an alt (~500mil/month), but if you are dead set against joining a corp it is the only way increase your yield while remaining independent.
Even as a solo miner you will still want to invest in an orca to replace whatever industrial you are using. You can still use that industrial as an extra cargo hold in your orca (up to 40,000 depending on which indy you use), but you would have to forgo rigs on your hulk as it would have to be pacaged when you move your base.
If you want to use rigs on your hulk, and why wouldn't you? The best option will just be to get yourself a second hulk fitted for max cargo. You might want to have one of these in your inventory anyway for hi-sec afk mining.
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joan arcangel
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.07 07:36:00 -
[6]
Edited by: joan arcangel on 07/02/2009 07:36:23
Originally by: Lil Orphan
Even as a solo miner you will still want to invest in an orca to replace whatever industrial you are using. You can still use that industrial as an extra cargo hold in your orca (up to 40,000 depending on which indy you use), but you would have to forgo rigs on your hulk as it would have to be pacaged when you move your base.
If you want to use rigs on your hulk, and why wouldn't you? The best option will just be to get yourself a second hulk fitted for max cargo. You might want to have one of these in your inventory anyway for hi-sec afk mining.
the orca has 2 holds corp hanger 40km3 + personal hold 80km3+ rigs+expanders and it can store a hulk in ship hanger if you move systems so dont need to repackage in your case a orca would be a good hauler if you can leave cans in belt without them being flipped or stolen.. Plus it has a 70km range on tractor beams so you can have jet cans all over belt and still not move a lot |
Lil Orphan
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Posted - 2009.02.07 07:44:00 -
[7]
Originally by: joan arcangel Edited by: joan arcangel on 07/02/2009 07:36:23
Originally by: Lil Orphan
Even as a solo miner you will still want to invest in an orca to replace whatever industrial you are using. You can still use that industrial as an extra cargo hold in your orca (up to 40,000 depending on which indy you use), but you would have to forgo rigs on your hulk as it would have to be pacaged when you move your base.
If you want to use rigs on your hulk, and why wouldn't you? The best option will just be to get yourself a second hulk fitted for max cargo. You might want to have one of these in your inventory anyway for hi-sec afk mining.
the orca has 2 holds corp hanger 40km3 + personal hold 80km3+ rigs+expanders and it can store a hulk in ship hanger if you move systems so dont need to repackage in your case a orca would be a good hauler if you can leave cans in belt without them being flipped or stolen.. Plus it has a 70km range on tractor beams so you can have jet cans all over belt and still not move a lot
Referring to use of cargo holds of ships docked in the orca; important when finally shipping your ore to market. |
Sanguis Sanies
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.02.07 09:46:00 -
[8]
so.. hold on, an Orca pilot can access (and use) the cargoholds of ships inside the ship maintenance hold!
So I can use the Cargohold of the Orca (+ Expanders + Rigs) AND the Corp hanger AND the Cargohold of the industrial in the Ship bay!
So I can use 90,000m3+ for an expanded/rigged Orca Cargohold + 40,000m3 for the corp plus the 38,000m3 of the rigged expanded itty 5 in the ship bay for 170,000m3-ish of storage space (more if I use GSCs!)
Or am I reading that wrong? if not the Orca just keeps getting better and better.
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Lil Orphan
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Posted - 2009.02.07 11:41:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sanguis Sanies so.. hold on, an Orca pilot can access (and use) the cargoholds of ships inside the ship maintenance hold!
So I can use the Cargohold of the Orca (+ Expanders + Rigs) AND the Corp hanger AND the Cargohold of the industrial in the Ship bay!
So I can use 90,000m3+ for an expanded/rigged Orca Cargohold + 40,000m3 for the corp plus the 38,000m3 of the rigged expanded itty 5 in the ship bay for 170,000m3-ish of storage space (more if I use GSCs!)
Or am I reading that wrong? if not the Orca just keeps getting better and better.
I have never actually done this, but I see nothing technically wrong with it. You might have to un-dock your industrial from your orca and dock at a station to load it, but whatever is in your cargo hold before you dock with orca is still going to be there. this level of difficulty would make it totally worth it for transporting your refined minerals to market. |
Joss Sparq
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.07 13:53:00 -
[10]
Last I had heard, the only thing that can be stored in the cargo hold of any vessel stored in a Ship Maintenance Bay in any Capital is Charges (Ammunition). I doubt you'll be able to use the cargo hold of an Iteron V parked in there, I'm afraid.
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.02.07 14:33:00 -
[11]
The hulk is the final word in mining ore solo, or even mining with 2 people. The orca and rorqual etc add bonuses, the larger the gangs, the more effective they are. In a large gang they help considerably, in a small one sometimes another hulk would be better in terms of raw isk/minute.
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Lil Orphan
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Posted - 2009.02.07 14:39:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Joss Sparq Last I had heard, the only thing that can be stored in the cargo hold of any vessel stored in a Ship Maintenance Bay in any Capital is Charges (Ammunition). I doubt you'll be able to use the cargo hold of an Iteron V parked in there, I'm afraid.
well that's pretty crappy. why would they do that?
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Clansworth
Blackwater USA Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.07 15:06:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Lil Orphan
Originally by: Joss Sparq Last I had heard, the only thing that can be stored in the cargo hold of any vessel stored in a Ship Maintenance Bay in any Capital is Charges (Ammunition). I doubt you'll be able to use the cargo hold of an Iteron V parked in there, I'm afraid.
well that's pretty crappy. why would they do that?
They did that because before it was changed, Carriers were the most widely used haulers in the game. A rather ridiculous situation really. To correct this problem, they made it so that a ship cannot have anything but Charges in its hold when entering a Ship Bay (either ship-board, or SMA in POS).
That being said, if you really need to move a LOT of minerals, you can still manufacture purg torps, which have very good mineral compression, and load up some itty's with them, and put THEM in the rorq/orca's hold...
System Influence |
Lil Orphan
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Posted - 2009.02.07 15:20:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Clansworth
Originally by: Lil Orphan
Originally by: Joss Sparq Last I had heard, the only thing that can be stored in the cargo hold of any vessel stored in a Ship Maintenance Bay in any Capital is Charges (Ammunition). I doubt you'll be able to use the cargo hold of an Iteron V parked in there, I'm afraid.
well that's pretty crappy. why would they do that?
They did that because before it was changed, Carriers were the most widely used haulers in the game. A rather ridiculous situation really. To correct this problem, they made it so that a ship cannot have anything but Charges in its hold when entering a Ship Bay (either ship-board, or SMA in POS).
That being said, if you really need to move a LOT of minerals, you can still manufacture purg torps, which have very good mineral compression, and load up some itty's with them, and put THEM in the rorq/orca's hold...
The reasoning there was, I think, a bit flawed. So carriers were being used to transport goods, big fat hairy deal. What are they being used for now? Almost nothing, that's what. I cant think of any extant situation where a carrier can serve a function some other ship could not do better. seems carriers are more of a liability now, an expensive toy. They should have left well enough alone.
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BuckStrider
Fleem Co SIRRIUS.
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Posted - 2009.02.07 16:52:00 -
[15]
Quote: The reasoning there was, I think, a bit flawed. So carriers were being used to transport goods, big fat hairy deal. What are they being used for now? Almost nothing, that's what. I cant think of any extant situation where a carrier can serve a function some other ship could not do better. seems carriers are more of a liability now, an expensive toy. They should have left well enough alone.
I very obvious that you have no frickin' idea what your talking about.
True, as a solo ship, it's not worth a crap. In a corp or alliance, they prove invaluable
I'm not getting into it because it's totally OT
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Halada
Caldari Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.07 18:34:00 -
[16]
WTB Asteroid Tractor Beam for my Erebus!
★ LSJV now recruiting ★ |
Lara Dontral
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Posted - 2009.02.07 20:15:00 -
[17]
The Hulk is, mathematically, the best ship in terms of ore yield. However, there are a few other ships that can mine very effectively.
A Rokh or (even better) an Apocalypse outfitted with full mining laser IIs requires a CPU upgrade to fit well, but with a full compliment of mining drones and as many cargohold expanders as you can spare, it'll reach 2900m3 capacity and mine just under 1100m3 of ore per minute. Not nearly what a hulk can pull in, but still respectable for a ship you can train into in a lot less time. Obviously, due to the small cargo hold, can mining with a hauler is a preferred tactic, but not necessary if you like warping back to a station every two minutes. Let's not forget that it takes a lot more damage to pop a Geddon than a Hulk, and the modules cost less too.
So, honestly, Hulk is the best choice for the solo miner, but there are alternatives.
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Lil Orphan
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Posted - 2009.02.08 05:04:00 -
[18]
Originally by: BuckStrider
Quote: The reasoning there was, I think, a bit flawed. So carriers were being used to transport goods, big fat hairy deal. What are they being used for now? Almost nothing, that's what. I cant think of any extant situation where a carrier can serve a function some other ship could not do better. seems carriers are more of a liability now, an expensive toy. They should have left well enough alone.
I very obvious that you have no frickin' idea what your talking about.
True, as a solo ship, it's not worth a crap. In a corp or alliance, they prove invaluable
I'm not getting into it because it's totally OT
Of course you are right. I was ranting irrationally, but in response to an irrational decision on the part of CCP. CCP seems to have a bug up its a** concerning solo players, like our money isn't as good as corp players. the fact that people were using carriers to move freight did absolutely nothing to unbalance the game. Industrials would still have been in demand as players would still want them for the docking bay, meaning they would still be training for them, and demand for them would have been even greater as each player would potentially be using more than one. Of course the price of carriers would have increased with demand, but the effect on the market would be less disruptive than the relative lack of demand now is. I suspect that at the corp level you would need to make a carrier viable in play as things stand you could just make your own.
The former state of affairs gave the solo player a reason to expand their training into other areas. A lot of us solo players are not trying to thumb their noses at CCP, many of us simply do not have the lifestyle which facilitates group play. Corps, just as in real life, already have a tremendous advantage over individuals without CCP giving them a leg up at every turn.
The big frustration for me is the complete lack of logical explanation. There is no physical reason one should have to remove things from one ship before putting said ship into another larger ship. The only realistic implications should be toward the carrier ships acceleration/deceleration and maneuverability/alignment rates. Since these are issues dealing with mass, not volume, and are not directly dealt with in the game in other cases, it should not matter here.
Of course, none of this ranting is going to do anybody any good, and is totally off topic from Soul's question. The ultimate answer for you, Soul, is that you are going to have to start investing in alts, and the first one you are going to have to invest in as a solo player is a marketing/trader alt, as this is the only best build to pay for all of your other alts.
From
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Dreamwalker
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Posted - 2009.02.08 05:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Lil Orphan The former state of affairs gave the solo player a reason to expand their training into other areas. A lot of us solo players are not trying to thumb their noses at CCP, many of us simply do not have the lifestyle which facilitates group play. Corps, just as in real life, already have a tremendous advantage over individuals without CCP giving them a leg up at every turn.
CCP understand that a person engaged in activities with other people feel a part of something. That feeling of a part of something means that they will most likely continue paying for their account or possible get more accounts.
A solo player will get bored and move on to the next thing were if there is a base of people that they call "friends" who enjoy playing the game together CCP is going to have more people staying and paying to play.
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Lil Orphan
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Posted - 2009.02.08 07:14:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Dreamwalker
Originally by: Lil Orphan The former state of affairs gave the solo player a reason to expand their training into other areas. A lot of us solo players are not trying to thumb their noses at CCP, many of us simply do not have the lifestyle which facilitates group play. Corps, just as in real life, already have a tremendous advantage over individuals without CCP giving them a leg up at every turn.
CCP understand that a person engaged in activities with other people feel a part of something. That feeling of a part of something means that they will most likely continue paying for their account or possible get more accounts.
A solo player will get bored and move on to the next thing were if there is a base of people that they call "friends" who enjoy playing the game together CCP is going to have more people staying and paying to play.
Your argument is mostly correct because CCP has gone so far out of its way to limit viable options of play for solo players. I know that, were I a normal person, I would not have outlasted the free trial period. I have an inordinately great tolerance for tedium.
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Sidrat Flush
Caldari Life is Experience Rally Against Evil
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Posted - 2009.02.08 13:04:00 -
[21]
As has been said, yes the hulk is the best mineral mining ship in the game. Add in implants on top of that, leadership bonus's for being in a fleet, and an orca pilot and you're laughing. IF you can find a fairly full belt of course.
The Orca pilot doesn't mine. He's there only to give bonus's, laser range and yield usually but also cpu reduction so pilots may be able to fit two mining upgrades in the low slots.
This is a multiplayer game and even if you don't want to get involved in the whole corp business and getting to know people then scan the belts, ask in local chat - I'm sure that you'll find a fleet giving bonus's to mining either free or for a nominal sum, just do your own hauling (for security) and don't mine in the same belt (if the number of hulks are big enough the belt won't be around long anyway).
Good luck. |
Induc
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Posted - 2009.02.08 14:23:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Induc on 08/02/2009 14:26:20 Edited by: Induc on 08/02/2009 14:25:33
Originally by: Sidrat Flush but also cpu reduction so pilots may be able to fit two mining upgrades in the low slots.
cpu reduction? Also, hulks can fit two mining upgrades just fine without the help of any non existing bonus |
Raymon James
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.02.08 16:16:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sidrat Flush
The Orca pilot doesn't mine. He's there only to give bonus's, laser range and yield usually but also cpu reduction so pilots may be able to fit two mining upgrades in the low slots.
/blinks
the orca does not give CPU bonuses to other ships.
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Alaris Nightshadow
Otakus Society Revolution Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.08 18:42:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Alaris Nightshadow on 08/02/2009 18:41:57
Originally by: Sidrat Flush . . .cpu reduction so pilots may be able to fit two mining upgrades in the low slots. . .
it's actually a Capacator usage reduction, this mainly helps when using T2 Mining Lasers and Crystals on High-end Ore (Crystals have a cap usage penatalty/bonus depending on the ore type) ----------------------------------------------- "EVE isn't meant to look like a harsh, uncaring universe..........it is one..." |
D'wayne
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Posted - 2009.02.08 20:30:00 -
[25]
If you have a single alt, its better to have them in a hulk aswell rather than sitting doing nothing in an Orca giving small bonuses. Your mining gang needs to be fairly large before it becomes worth it to use any ship that isnt mining ore directly.
When you have a few jet cans full, dock one of the hulks, pull out an Orca, or Iteron, and grab the cans... then return in the hulk and continue.
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ChaoticDemon
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Posted - 2009.02.09 00:59:00 -
[26]
A char with mining director 5 warfare link spec 5 and cybernetics 5 using mining foreman mindlink gives about 45% to yield if in a bc/command ship add orca/rorqual bonus is around 50% so 3 person gang with one in orca etc is same as having 3 hulks mine also I have an empire hulk for solo mining with 2 cargo rigs and 2 expnders is a bit over 17k cargo with 1 alt in an orca I coud use 2 t2 mining upgrades and mine for about 1 hour without docking the orca if belts support it also figure at least 3 mins lost every time I dock so am losing at least 12 mins an hour mining solo not counting loss to yield not using upgrades
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AusTerror
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Posted - 2009.02.09 03:36:00 -
[27]
I'm going to add my 2 cents.
The Orca can be useful for mining solo. Use 5 t2 mining drones and you can sit in a belt for ages. useful in those remote stationless systems with the good ores. Less hauling back to station.
yes it is slower than if you had a hulk doing that job. But its nice to not have to return to station every 10 minutes.
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Insidious Oood
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Posted - 2009.02.09 16:37:00 -
[28]
No, the hulk is NOT the best solo minier you can get
here --- Linkage Linkage Linkage Linkage
keep training, you have a long way to go |
Vietone
Gallente Mercury Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.09 17:48:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Insidious Oood No, the hulk is NOT the best solo minier you can get
here --- Linkage Linkage Linkage Linkage
keep training, you have a long way to go
LoL, even a titan cant outmine a hulk. Even with best skills, a titan would be mining at half the amount a hulk would be able to. |
Azzatu
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Posted - 2009.02.09 18:18:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Sanguis Sanies plus the 38,000m3 of the rigged expanded itty 5 in the ship bay for 170,000m3-ish of storage space (more if I use GSCs!)
I didn't read everyone's posts but from what I know you CANT store a ship inside the SMB with anything other than charges in its cargohold. I don't know if this is exactly true as I've not tested this outside of the station yet but I've been unable to dump a rifter with mods in its cargo, inside the SMB.
The message I get is: "You cannot store a ship that contains cargo other than charges inside a Ship Maintenance Bay. Please remove cargo from the ship and try again."
So your looking at around 100km3 for your ore, depending on skills etc. |
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