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Arkturus McFadden
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.04.22 00:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey folks, just a quick question about the origins of this popular "trend" of sorts
Where did this originate from? Did it begin with killing mining bots and eventually spiraled down to killing any and all (if the opportunity arose) miners in high sec
Also, why is this done? for amusement? From what I understand of EVE, don't miners make mineral prices go down? Which then leads to more PVP because we all can get ships
Thanks for the replies. |
Jacob Staffuer
State War Academy Caldari State
37
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Posted - 2012.04.22 00:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Arkturus McFadden wrote:Hey folks, just a quick question about the origins of this popular "trend" of sorts
Where did this originate from? Did it begin with killing mining bots and eventually spiraled down to killing any and all (if the opportunity arose) miners in high sec
Also, why is this done? for amusement? From what I understand of EVE, don't miners make mineral prices go down? Which then leads to more PVP because we all can get ships
Thanks for the replies.
Pretty much just a bunch of cyber bullies who have found a safe haven because this sort of thing is tolerated in EVE.
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Arkturus McFadden
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.04.22 00:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
I just find it hard to believe thats the only real answer to all of this..
I don't know, I want to get into PVP in EVE.. but killing those that make it possible for me to afford ships just seems extremely illogical and game breaking..
I mean, by all means kill the bots.. but active players that like mining?
More replies would be great, maybe from actual gankers? I really want to understand why this is done. |
Bernie Nator
Talocan Hive Talocan United
213
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Posted - 2012.04.22 00:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
There's tears, isk, more tears, really funny local chat, and because they can.
Eve, sandbox, make your own fun. |
Jacob Staffuer
State War Academy Caldari State
37
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Posted - 2012.04.22 00:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Arkturus McFadden wrote:I just find it hard to believe thats the only real answer to all of this..
I don't know, I want to get into PVP in EVE.. but killing those that make it possible for me to afford ships just seems extremely illogical and game breaking..
I mean, by all means kill the bots.. but active players that like mining?
More replies would be great, maybe from actual gankers? I really want to understand why this is done.
They'll give you lots of reasons, but if you read between the lines the answer is:
Cyber bullies who have found a safe haven because this sort of thing is tolerated in EVE Online.
Just do a quick forum search and soak in all the tears that flow every time their safe cyberbully haven is threatened by a change to game mechanics. Herr Wiklus is one of the more prolific sources of precipitation.
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Arkturus McFadden
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.04.22 00:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bernie Nator wrote:There's tears, isk, more tears, really funny local chat, and because they can.
Eve, sandbox, make your own fun.
I concur on the funny local chat, I've seen the anger emitted from acts like these.. and it is amusing from a individual looking at the conflict..
..but still, make your own fun at the risk of destroying one of the major sources of minerals for manufacturing ships?
If this was an act of "seeking attention". Couldn't you just make your fame through killing people in low sec or null? Or war declarations? Or am I looking at something that isn't really in EVE anymore? (sorry, reading a lot in terms of EVE) |
Arkturus McFadden
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.04.22 00:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jacob Staffuer wrote:
They'll give you lots of reasons, but if you read between the lines the answer is:
Cyber bullies who have found a safe haven because this sort of thing is tolerated in EVE Online.
Just do a quick forum search and soak in all the tears that flow every time their safe cyberbully haven is threatened by a change to game mechanics. Herr Wiklus is one of the more prolific sources of precipitation.
Thanks, I'll look into that Jacob. |
Jacob Staffuer
State War Academy Caldari State
37
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Posted - 2012.04.22 01:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
Arkturus McFadden wrote:Jacob Staffuer wrote:
They'll give you lots of reasons, but if you read between the lines the answer is:
Cyber bullies who have found a safe haven because this sort of thing is tolerated in EVE Online.
Just do a quick forum search and soak in all the tears that flow every time their safe cyberbully haven is threatened by a change to game mechanics. Herr Wiklus is one of the more prolific sources of precipitation.
Thanks, I'll look into that Jacob.
Drink the tears: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=95795&find=unread |
Verte Sinkon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.04.22 01:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
To be honest, this supply hypothesis you keep talking about is sort of implausible. Sure, the collective effects of individual ganks change market conditions but the effect is going to be weak unless it was done on a large scale. The Ice Interdiction is one such example or a large scale operation affecting market conditions drastically. The way you make it sound is that every miner has dropped dead or something. Also, you seem to overlook the possibility that organizations who conduct such large scale operations might be doing so purposefully. Not necessarily for money, both in terms of loot and cashing in on the increase in prices, but to keep their members engaged and playing the game. |
Ustrello
Mindstar Technology Executive Outcomes
34
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Posted - 2012.04.22 01:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
they should change it to cry cyber bully instead of cry wolf cause of all these idiots who think this is cyber bullying |
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Bernie Nator
Talocan Hive Talocan United
213
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Posted - 2012.04.22 02:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
The only miners I care to shoot happen to be miners in wormholes.
Other than that, eh. |
discordigant
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2012.04.22 02:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bernie Nator wrote:The only miners I care to shoot happen to be miners in wormholes.
Other than that, eh.
Wait, you guys shoot more than just structures these days? |
Arkturus McFadden
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.04.22 03:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Verte Sinkon wrote:To be honest, this supply hypothesis you keep talking about is sort of implausible. Sure, the collective effects of individual ganks change market conditions but the effect is going to be weak unless it was done on a large scale. The Ice Interdiction is one such example or a large scale operation affecting market conditions drastically. The way you make it sound is that every miner has dropped dead or something. Also, you seem to overlook the possibility that organizations who conduct such large scale operations might be doing so purposefully. Not necessarily for money, both in terms of loot and cashing in on the increase in prices, but to keep their members engaged and playing the game.
Yet its plausible as much as it is implausible if this is a sandbox. Collectively its done to a great extent by random corporations and individuals from what I can see. My fear as a new player is those that get all of these minerals will become discouraged and fearful to do their operations because of these nonsensical attacks on them. I know the market is going crazy due to bots being banned and "drones"? from some place in null is being nerfed.. but what happens if this "trend" continues and heightens?
Who is going to bring the prices back down for minerals and ultimately ships? I guess we could say null sec, but then again thats a hit and miss if I understand the thought process of null sec correctly.
Now things like hulkageddon (which I think you mentioned without mentioning it), an event I believe your alliance hosts? I don't have an issue with something like that.. I think that's a healthy event in a game where things like that can and should be exercised.
BUT, like I said.. whats too far? When is ganking miners too much? I think hulkageddon is not an exploitation.. but when it's being done by more and more pvpers, extensively, for no real reason other then to get amusement.. it makes me believe that is it being exploited.. and in turn that hurts everyone through market conditions.
From my very brief experience in pvp, it's very clear that combat in this game is 20% actual ship to ship combat.. and 80% physiological warfare. I think that translates perfectly to those that have no intention to fight, if they see the threat from miles away.. they will illogically become stagnate.. which will then hurt us.. the players that actually like to fight. |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
164
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Posted - 2012.04.22 03:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
For me sucide ganking didn't become something cool to do until I saw the karma video by Outbreak in 2007 which you can view here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iGcs3vkpo0 Minmatar alpha had yet to be boosted so t1 brutix, raven, and smartbomb apocs were good ships to use.
Miners became targets for a number of reasons: because ganking high isk cargo haulers is tough work, requires a bunch of people and knowledge of how much every item in eve costs because miners are either bots or afk 95% of the time allowing you to setup very easily T2 salvage, faction shield boosters and named mining upgrades means it can be profitable They don't tank their ship at all
But in all reality it was the original hulkaggedon which was only a weekend and got like 100 kills that got ISD attention and a news story on the EVE-O website which spawned hordes of people wanting to do the same thing.
Mostly suiciding miners is based on amusement, if you saw a super expensive ship with zero tank that sits there at 0/ms and doesn't react to anything, well then it is just asking to be ganked. Also, EVE is a video game and in most video games you just follow a story/path and blow up everything along the way so if you do the same thing in EVE that's just playing the game.
And no, rising mineral prices don't really affect the amount of PvP that happens in EVE. People have way too much isk and assets in EVE as it is. And this mineral price rise has nothing to do with suiciding miners in the slightest. |
Arkturus McFadden
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 04:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vaal Erit wrote:For me sucide ganking didn't become something cool to do until I saw the karma video by Outbreak in 2007 which you can view here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iGcs3vkpo0 Minmatar alpha had yet to be boosted so t1 brutix, raven, and smartbomb apocs were good ships to use Miners became targets for a number of reasons because ganking high isk cargo haulers is tough work, requires a bunch of people and knowledge of how much every item in eve cost because miners are either bots or afk 95% of the time allowing you to setup very easil T2 salvage, faction shield boosters and named mining upgrades means it can be profitabl They don't tank their ship at al But in all reality it was the original hulkaggedon which was only a weekend and got like 100 kills that got ISD attention and a news story on the EVE-O website which spawned hordes of people wanting to do the same thing Mostly suiciding miners is based on amusement, if you saw a super expensive ship with zero tank that sits there at 0/ms and doesn't react to anything, well then it is just asking to be ganked. Also, EVE is a video game and in most video games you just follow a story/path and blow up everything along the way so if you do the same thing in EVE that's just playing the game And no, rising mineral prices don't really affect the amount of PvP that happens in EVE. People have way too much isk and assets in EVE as it is. And this mineral price rise has nothing to do with suiciding miners in the slightest.
Thank you for explaining that to me Vaal
I must say though.. I've been playing less then a month now and I beg to differ that 95% are afk miners. I've met quite a few that are very much alive and active playing EVE. They just play it differently.. but with that, I don't denounce that many are afk or bots, I've seen those too. Still, do we kill any we find all because a group of players do afk mine or bot? I think from that perspective.. CCP is dealing with that group (botters) of people quite well (look at our market condition)
As for mineral prices rising, I know that suiciding miners has nothing to do with current market chaos. But my concern is, what happens when all that isk that has been gained is used up and the assets people have acquired has been destroyed? Longevity in doing what we love in this game (fighting/combat/pirating/what have you) is lost unless we take up the banner to mine and trust me.. I'm sure many pvp pilots would say a piece of their soul would be lost if they ever were caught in a mining ship. I mean.. from what your saying above.. it's a matter of.. "I'm going to blow up everything I can until I can't..". What happens after that? You unsubscribe because next to no one wants to do the horrible and extremely patient exercising task of mining
Lastly, sure this is a video game.. sure some people take this video game WAY too seriously.. but with that.. we do have real life mechanics that play really important roles in this video game.. the economic aspects of this game is a prime example. If we must bring up a real life example, look at the whole "oil" predicament. It's chaos and this video game will have even more of that if we lose this group of players that play this boring yet major role in EVE |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Ponies for the Ethical Treatment of Asteroids
1040
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 04:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bernie Nator wrote:There's tears, isk, more tears, really funny local chat, and because they can.
Eve, sandbox, make your own fun.
And if all else fails, take a giant crap in someone else's sandbox |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
127
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 05:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
EVE is (or atleast should be) a sandbox ... but in this sandbox it seems that rules benefits the douchebags more then anyone else.
And you know things work on the internet .... irl frustrated people dropped in an enviroment that puts them outside physical confrontation danger, tend to turn into ganking little dickheads that run rampant across the game killing people for "maximum tears".
It would be a very intresting thing to study ... and I fear the results wouldnt be very flattering for us gamers. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Ponies for the Ethical Treatment of Asteroids
1040
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 05:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cedo Nulli wrote:EVE is (or atleast should be) a sandbox ... but in this sandbox it seems that rules benefits the douchebags more then anyone else.
And you know things work on the internet .... irl frustrated people dropped in an enviroment that puts them outside physical confrontation danger, tend to turn into ganking little dickheads that run rampant across the game killing people for "maximum tears".
It would be a very intresting thing to study ... and I fear the results wouldnt be very flattering for us gamers.
Shaddup Skeletor |
Klymer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 05:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
just google "John Gabriel greater internet theory" nsfw htfu |
Denidil
Larimer Highlands Heavy Industries
259
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Posted - 2012.04.22 05:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
gankers tend to be a better source of tears than gankees ... every time the slightest threat to their easy killmail whoring pops up they go into apoplexy.
they need to grow some stones and go shoot something that will shoot back.
I am ready to bottle sweet sweet gankbear tears the moment CCP inevitably gives hulks tanks comperable to a Tech 1 caldari cruiser. I have found this new mysterious resource called "Life" |
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Ponies for the Ethical Treatment of Asteroids
1040
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 06:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
Denidil wrote:
I am ready to bottle sweet sweet gankbear tears the moment CCP inevitably gives hulks tanks comperable to a Tech 1 caldari cruiser.
Damage Control II in a low, 2 medium core defense field extender rigs, adaptive invul field II, T2Therm and EM amplifiers in mids gives a Hulk almost 22K EHP. Hulks have a great tank, players don't fit tanks or halfass the tank |
Eryn Velasquez
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2012.04.22 06:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vaal Erit wrote:....... Miners became targets for a number of reasons: because ganking high isk cargo haulers is tough work, requires a bunch of people and knowledge of how much every item in eve costs......t.
You mix up two things
Ganking high isk cargo haulers, espacially freighters with billions in cargohold requires planing, scouting, intelligence and a good working bunch of pirates. I respect those people.
Ganking solo miners in a belt can be done by a chimp. Suicide gankers - Silly griefing kiddies, annoying like dog poop under my shoes |
Arkturus McFadden
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 06:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Denidil wrote:
I am ready to bottle sweet sweet gankbear tears the moment CCP inevitably gives hulks tanks comperable to a Tech 1 caldari cruiser.
Damage Control II in a low, 2 medium core defense field extender rigs, adaptive invul field II, T2Therm and EM amplifiers in mids gives a Hulk almost 22K EHP. Hulks have a great tank, players don't fit tanks or halfass the tank
From what I've heard though is.. if your going to be ganked.. it doesn't matter what your fit is on a hulk or any mining ship for that matter. The said miner WILL die, so.. I at least don't see why you would do that if you could just fit the hulk to maximize their profits instead. So with that, it doesn't matter if it has the potential for a great tank, it's just more loot (give or take) for the ganker
I mean, whats the point anyways? Hulks are terrible HP ships, even with a cruiser's HP the ship would still fall to a large gank. Cruiser level EHP still wouldn't help in that matter either
It comes down to, ganking these miners makes them discouraged to mine, which then weakens our market slightly. Collectively, over a period of time, and lots of attacks on many mining players would hurt all of us immensely. I like to shoot things, I would especially like to have a career in low sec eventually.. but if this keeps up, what happens to us new players? Do we just say, "screw it" and leave? The mining industry is what keeps the longevity of this game alive from what I understand.. so why flat out try and disrupt it? |
Arkturus McFadden
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.04.22 06:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Eryn Velasquez wrote:Vaal Erit wrote:....... Miners became targets for a number of reasons: because ganking high isk cargo haulers is tough work, requires a bunch of people and knowledge of how much every item in eve costs......t. You mix up two things Ganking high isk cargo haulers, espacially freighters with billions in cargohold requires planing, scouting, intelligence and a good working bunch of pirates. I respect those people. Ganking solo miners in a belt can be done by a chimp.
I agree completely with this, I dream of the day to trap a freighter and take all of its stuff. I can't even fathom the riches inside one of those ships yet. It would be a true achievement and a testament to individual as well as team based skill in all the departments listed above. It'd be a kill that could be bragged about for the years to come and rightly so.
It's what I always envisioned pirates doing in EVE, it'd be the treasure trove in EVE terms. Miners in high sec are anything but a "chest full of gold" like a freighter would be. So why not go after those? Why not aspire to get that "chest full of gold" instead of killing people that actually help all of us do our dirty work? |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
549
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 07:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
People were suicide ganking anyone, miner or not, already back when this game started. It's gotten shitloads harder to do nowadays tho, and the chances of a decent gank with potential profit is alot higher on a regular miner than most combat ships, unfortunately.
Make it easier to gank combat ships again and you might see less mining ganks. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Bernie Nator
Talocan Hive Talocan United
213
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 08:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
discordigant wrote:Bernie Nator wrote:The only miners I care to shoot happen to be miners in wormholes.
Other than that, eh. Wait, you guys shoot more than just structures these days? Yes, we do more than just burn peoples systems to the ground.
Why, just yesterday we almost killed a 10 man fleet. they were even stupid enough to fleet and and add me to their Intel channel to kill the big bad Talos that was sat on the hole inside their system. Granted, it wad one of my guys they wanted to try and kill, but they wouldn't engage even with two guardians, numerous Bc and bs, and a stabbed fleet issue. Was very disappointing. |
Irisandra T'Lavel
3
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Posted - 2012.04.22 08:42:00 -
[27] - Quote
Eryn Velasquez wrote:You mix up two things
Ganking high isk cargo haulers, espacially freighters with billions in cargohold requires planing, scouting, intelligence and a good working bunch of pirates. I respect those people.
Ganking solo miners in a belt can be done by a chimp.
I agree on the need to point out the differences.
Ganking solo miners is just a chance for people to feel big while attacking things that don't attack back, they don't want the challenge of real PVP with someone else fighting.
IRL, it would equate to going to a carnival BB gun shooting booth and trying to tell great stories about hunting later on. Hang that paper with the shot out star on your wall, where real hunters would hang mounted antlers of a head of a nasty beast!
Heh, I want to see someone start bragging about miner ganking then have a SEAL or Ranger walk up and punch them in their bearded neck for being such a bag of douche little pansy. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
549
|
Posted - 2012.04.22 08:48:00 -
[28] - Quote
Irisandra T'Lavel wrote:Eryn Velasquez wrote:You mix up two things
Ganking high isk cargo haulers, espacially freighters with billions in cargohold requires planing, scouting, intelligence and a good working bunch of pirates. I respect those people.
Ganking solo miners in a belt can be done by a chimp. I agree on the need to point out the differences. Ganking solo miners is just a chance for people to feel big while attacking things that don't attack back, they don't want the challenge of real PVP with someone else fighting. IRL, it would equate to going to a carnival BB gun shooting booth and trying to tell great stories about hunting later on. Hang that paper with the shot out star on your wall, where real hunters would hang mounted antlers of a head of a nasty beast! Heh, I want to see someone start bragging about miner ganking then have a SEAL or Ranger walk up and punch them in their bearded neck for being such a bag of douche little pansy.
So if the miner is not a chimp, why is he wasting his time mining noob ore in the noob start area? If he decides to use a ship too-powerful-for-the-designated area, and he decides to play EVE which involved ganking, griefing etc, why not face the consequences of his own lazy actions? shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Irisandra T'Lavel
3
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Posted - 2012.04.22 09:04:00 -
[29] - Quote
Misanth wrote:So if the miner is not a chimp, why is he wasting his time mining noob ore in the noob start area? If he decides to use a ship too-powerful-for-the-designated area, and he decides to play EVE which involved ganking, griefing etc, why not face the consequences of his own lazy actions?
What do you define a starter area? All of highsec? LOL okay, that's a giant starter area. And how are the ships overpowered when it's not that hard to gank them? If it they were so overpowered then there wouldn't be anywhere near so many kills in hulkageddon, right?
Yes the game contains ganking/griefing/etc but it also includes mission agents and mining belts. So the first time you mine or run a mission you are not allowed to partake in the rest of the game? Or is it that to be one of the cool kids you have to give up everything the current cool kids tell you to give up? Who's the chimp now?
For the record, I think I trained one indy skill, used in one of the starter quests. I am not a miner. I am actually working on learning to better fit and fly PVP ships, I just see no challenge in a ganking. So if the miner is lazy, is it not also kind of the lazy way out to kill something that does not shoot back?
How about nerfing drops and salvage if PVP is one sided? |
Eryn Velasquez
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
24
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Posted - 2012.04.22 09:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
Misanth wrote: So if the miner is not a chimp, why is he wasting his time mining noob ore in the noob start area? If he decides to use a ship too-powerful-for-the-designated area, and he decides to play EVE which involved ganking, griefing etc, why not face the consequences of his own lazy actions?
You really expect i'm gonna explain this to you?
As the gankers, the miners too search for easy money, perhaps listening to music while chilling in the belt, chatting with friends while mining. Not all players are 100% concentrated on their actions in game, especially when they are in a so called high security environment. That's the difference between them and the nerdy ganking-kids.
Meanwhile, some of these high-sec areas are more dangerous than low-sec or null-sec. And this is the imbalance, why many of them complain.
I don't agree with you, that it became harder to gank mission runners on behalf of game changes, they simply adapted and learned - not to buy the damsel back and take it out the can from the "friendly" ransomer, disable automatic locking, passive drones and many things more. Suicide gankers - Silly griefing kiddies, annoying like dog poop under my shoes |
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