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Scrap metal processing skill bugged?

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Captain Thunderpants	Posted - 2004.08.03 21:30:00 - [1] Edited by: Captain Thunderpants on 03/08/2004 22:06:03 Is scrap metal processing bugged or do i just need to train it to an absurdly high level. I have perfect refine at a 50% station and scrap metal at level 3 but i still get just 1 wastage on all minerals. edit. I just tried omber and got 1 wastage with skill to level 3 but spodumain at level 1 gave no wastage. Any answers from a GM would be nice
Captain Thunderpants	Posted - 2004.08.03 21:30:00 - [2] Edited by: Captain Thunderpants on 03/08/2004 22:06:03 Is scrap metal processing bugged or do i just need to train it to an absurdly high level. I have perfect refine at a 50% station and scrap metal at level 3 but i still get just 1 wastage on all minerals. edit. I just tried omber and got 1 wastage with skill to level 3 but spodumain at level 1 gave no wastage. Any answers from a GM would be nice
Ebedar	Posted - 2004.08.03 22:19:00 - [3] You need good standing with the corp who owns the refinery too, for some reason. My life in pictures:
Ebedar	Posted - 2004.08.03 22:19:00 - [4] You need good standing with the corp who owns the refinery too, for some reason. My life in pictures:
Fubar	Posted - 2004.08.03 23:23:00 - [5] The unrecoverable column for some reason takes 1 away from the WE TAKE column when the WE TAKE column has any value above zero. When you have a personal standing of 6.7+ (the stations take is zero) the unrecoverable column will be zero and you will receive 100% of the minerals from the recyle/refine.
Fubar	Posted - 2004.08.03 23:23:00 - [6] The unrecoverable column for some reason takes 1 away from the WE TAKE column when the WE TAKE column has any value above zero. When you have a personal standing of 6.7+ (the stations take is zero) the unrecoverable column will be zero and you will receive 100% of the minerals from the recyle/refine.
Sash	Posted - 2004.08.04 01:40:00 - [7] I also think it's bugged. I hope they'll fixit. I've spent too weeks on training the two required refining skills to V ... for the last two weeks. I've submitted a bug with a screen shots that shows all my skills and the refining process. Sash Sash VoxCel Corp
Sash	Posted - 2004.08.04 01:40:00 - [8] I also think it's bugged. I hope they'll fixit. I've spent too weeks on training the two required refining skills to V ... for the last two weeks. I've submitted a bug with a screen shots that shows all my skills and the refining process. Sash Sash VoxCel Corp
Ryco	Posted - 2004.08.04 04:06:00 - [9] Originally by: Sash I also think it's bugged. I hope they'll fixit. I've spent too weeks on training the two required refining skills to V ... for the last two weeks. I've submitted a bug with a screen shots that shows all my skills and the refining process. Sash Its not a bug. Just like any other reprocessing a station takes a percentage. As posted already, get your rating to above 6.6 with a station to get everything back.
Ryco	Posted - 2004.08.04 04:06:00 - [10] Originally by: Sash I also think it's bugged. I hope they'll fixit. I've spent too weeks on training the two required refining skills to V ... for the last two weeks. I've submitted a bug with a screen shots that shows all my skills and the refining process. Sash Its not a bug. Just like any other reprocessing a station takes a percentage. As posted already, get your rating to above 6.6 with a station to get everything back.
Captain Thunderpants	Posted - 2004.08.04 07:58:00 - [11] Im not talking about the stations take. As per my first post on spodumain there was no wastage, but on other ores and scrap metal with higher skills there is. Its the wastage thats at 1 for every mineral. The idea of scrap metal processing is to get that last zyd and mega. Its useless if you cant and a waste of 1 month training for me.
Captain Thunderpants	Posted - 2004.08.04 07:58:00 - [12] Im not talking about the stations take. As per my first post on spodumain there was no wastage, but on other ores and scrap metal with higher skills there is. Its the wastage thats at 1 for every mineral. The idea of scrap metal processing is to get that last zyd and mega. Its useless if you cant and a waste of 1 month training for me.
RaTTuS	Posted - 2004.08.04 10:21:00 - [13] with all the corps I have standing at 6.7 or better then ) get 0 taken and 0 wastage [with RE5 and specialed skills at level 1 or better] so something must be wrong somewhere BIG Lottery BIG Deal Damn Sig text length nurf
RaTTuS	Posted - 2004.08.04 10:21:00 - [14] with all the corps I have standing at 6.7 or better then ) get 0 taken and 0 wastage [with RE5 and specialed skills at level 1 or better] so something must be wrong somewhere BIG Lottery BIG Deal Damn Sig text length nurf
Ambitio	Posted - 2004.08.04 12:53:00 - [15] A question about scrapmetal processing: Under atributes on the scrapmetal processing skill it says Minmatartechmutator -5. What does that mean?
Ambitio	Posted - 2004.08.04 12:53:00 - [16] A question about scrapmetal processing: Under atributes on the scrapmetal processing skill it says Minmatartechmutator -5. What does that mean?
Fubar	Posted - 2004.08.04 16:03:00 - [17] Originally by: Captain Thunderpants Im not talking about the stations take. As per my first post on spodumain there was no wastage, but on other ores and scrap metal with higher skills there is. Its the wastage thats at 1 for every mineral. The idea of scrap metal processing is to get that last zyd and mega. Its useless if you cant and a waste of 1 month training for me. What is your standing with the Corp who owns the station?
Fubar	Posted - 2004.08.04 16:03:00 - [18] Originally by: Captain Thunderpants Im not talking about the stations take. As per my first post on spodumain there was no wastage, but on other ores and scrap metal with higher skills there is. Its the wastage thats at 1 for every mineral. The idea of scrap metal processing is to get that last zyd and mega. Its useless if you cant and a waste of 1 month training for me. What is your standing with the Corp who owns the station?
Tar om	Posted - 2004.08.04 16:14:00 - [19] I get the same thing. There are unrecoverable minerals (1 per mineral). I understand that my standing towards the corp that owns the station affects the "We Take" column - but surely the point of scrapmetal processing is that the refine itself is perfect. There should be no unrecoverable minerals! -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net http://www.serenitymovie.com
Tar om	Posted - 2004.08.04 16:14:00 - [20] I get the same thing. There are unrecoverable minerals (1 per mineral). I understand that my standing towards the corp that owns the station affects the "We Take" column - but surely the point of scrapmetal processing is that the refine itself is perfect. There should be no unrecoverable minerals! -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net http://www.serenitymovie.com
Fubar	Posted - 2004.08.04 18:38:00 - [21] Originally by: Tar om I get the same thing. There are unrecoverable minerals (1 per mineral). I understand that my standing towards the corp that owns the station affects the "We Take" column - but surely the point of scrapmetal processing is that the refine itself is perfect. There should be no unrecoverable minerals! Let me see if I can explain this properly.... The "You Receive" mineral amounts are calculated properly when you have a 100% net station yield (ie. when the station equipment is 50% and you skills bump the yield up to 100%). For some reason the unrecoverable column has to a minimum value of 1 when the "We Take" column has any value above zero. Do the math and test for yourself.... Add the 3 columns together, then multiply that by 1 - the stations take percentage (make sure you use all of the digits), and truncate that number - which should equal the "You Receive" column. If that doesn't work post a link to a screenshot so we can see the error.
Fubar	Posted - 2004.08.04 18:38:00 - [22] Originally by: Tar om I get the same thing. There are unrecoverable minerals (1 per mineral). I understand that my standing towards the corp that owns the station affects the "We Take" column - but surely the point of scrapmetal processing is that the refine itself is perfect. There should be no unrecoverable minerals! Let me see if I can explain this properly.... The "You Receive" mineral amounts are calculated properly when you have a 100% net station yield (ie. when the station equipment is 50% and you skills bump the yield up to 100%). For some reason the unrecoverable column has to a minimum value of 1 when the "We Take" column has any value above zero. Do the math and test for yourself.... Add the 3 columns together, then multiply that by 1 - the stations take percentage (make sure you use all of the digits), and truncate that number - which should equal the "You Receive" column. If that doesn't work post a link to a screenshot so we can see the error.
Captain Thunderpants	Posted - 2004.08.04 21:16:00 - [23] Then why in a test refine did i get. iso 1719 90 1 mega 17 0 1 zyd 95 5 0 on the mega there is a no we take so wastage should be 0 as well and on zyd they take 5 so wastage should be 1. And as stated earlier 1 have spod skill to level 1 and that gives perfect unrecoverable but omber at level 3 gives 1 wastage. Same station on all of these refines. There muust be a bug in the equations used in game. We dont want to sink time into refining skills to get that last precious mineral to de duped by CCP. Sorry i cant do a screenie no acces to webspace at the mo.
Captain Thunderpants	Posted - 2004.08.04 21:16:00 - [24] Then why in a test refine did i get. iso 1719 90 1 mega 17 0 1 zyd 95 5 0 on the mega there is a no we take so wastage should be 0 as well and on zyd they take 5 so wastage should be 1. And as stated earlier 1 have spod skill to level 1 and that gives perfect unrecoverable but omber at level 3 gives 1 wastage. Same station on all of these refines. There muust be a bug in the equations used in game. We dont want to sink time into refining skills to get that last precious mineral to de duped by CCP. Sorry i cant do a screenie no acces to webspace at the mo.
Fubar	Posted - 2004.08.04 23:26:00 - [25] Originally by: Captain Thunderpants Then why in a test refine did i get. iso 1719 90 1 mega 17 0 1 zyd 95 5 0 on the mega there is a no we take so wastage should be 0 as well and on zyd they take 5 so wastage should be 1. And as stated earlier 1 have spod skill to level 1 and that gives perfect unrecoverable but omber at level 3 gives 1 wastage. Same station on all of these refines. There muust be a bug in the equations used in game. We dont want to sink time into refining skills to get that last precious mineral to de duped by CCP. Sorry i cant do a screenie no acces to webspace at the mo. Does this screenshot show the problem you are describing? If so adding the 3 columns together to get base minerals in the module. Isogen: 1 Megacyte: 2 Mexallon: 61 Nocxium: 1 Pyerite: 13238 Tritanium: 15630 Zydrine: 1 this can be verified by this screenshot. Ok now to the math... We know we are getting 100% of the minerals minus the stations take. Isogen: 1 * 0.95 = 0.95 = trunced 0 Megacyte: 2 * 0.95 = 1.9 = trunced 1 Mexallon: 61 * 0.95 = 57.95 = trunced 57 Nocxium: 1 * 0.95 = 0.95 = trunced 0 Pyerite: 13238 * 0.95 = 12576.10 = trunced 12576 Tritanium: 15630 * 0.95 = 14848.50 = trunced 14848 Zyrdine: 1 * 0.95 = 0.95 = trunced 0 The station manager are greedy so when they take their percentage they take one whole unit even if the percentage they get is only 0.1%. You will not get that last piece of megacyte or zydrine until you have a standing of over 6.6666666 with the station owners and only at a 50% station. See this forum post on EVE-I for the refining/recycling formulas.
Fubar	Posted - 2004.08.04 23:26:00 - [26] Originally by: Captain Thunderpants Then why in a test refine did i get. iso 1719 90 1 mega 17 0 1 zyd 95 5 0 on the mega there is a no we take so wastage should be 0 as well and on zyd they take 5 so wastage should be 1. And as stated earlier 1 have spod skill to level 1 and that gives perfect unrecoverable but omber at level 3 gives 1 wastage. Same station on all of these refines. There muust be a bug in the equations used in game. We dont want to sink time into refining skills to get that last precious mineral to de duped by CCP. Sorry i cant do a screenie no acces to webspace at the mo. Does this screenshot show the problem you are describing? If so adding the 3 columns together to get base minerals in the module. Isogen: 1 Megacyte: 2 Mexallon: 61 Nocxium: 1 Pyerite: 13238 Tritanium: 15630 Zydrine: 1 this can be verified by this screenshot. Ok now to the math... We know we are getting 100% of the minerals minus the stations take. Isogen: 1 * 0.95 = 0.95 = trunced 0 Megacyte: 2 * 0.95 = 1.9 = trunced 1 Mexallon: 61 * 0.95 = 57.95 = trunced 57 Nocxium: 1 * 0.95 = 0.95 = trunced 0 Pyerite: 13238 * 0.95 = 12576.10 = trunced 12576 Tritanium: 15630 * 0.95 = 14848.50 = trunced 14848 Zyrdine: 1 * 0.95 = 0.95 = trunced 0 The station manager are greedy so when they take their percentage they take one whole unit even if the percentage they get is only 0.1%. You will not get that last piece of megacyte or zydrine until you have a standing of over 6.6666666 with the station owners and only at a 50% station. See this forum post on EVE-I for the refining/recycling formulas.
Ambitio	Posted - 2004.08.05 08:16:00 - [27] Edited by: Ambitio on 05/08/2004 10:20:42
Ambitio	Posted - 2004.08.05 08:16:00 - [28] Edited by: Ambitio on 05/08/2004 10:20:42
Captain Thunderpants	Posted - 2004.08.05 08:47:00 - [29] Thanks for spending the time with a slow to accept thicko fubar. But the way is see it is ore and loot processing will always give a wastage of 1 if not at 6.7 with corp. So the skill is useless to people with no access to agents in the station i.e some 0.0 stations. If the maths at ccp is bugged I would prefer to see the station take the 1 and it not show in wastage for it is making me paranoid. I just feel i have duped into spending over a month to get no further on in the game. I would still like a CCP representitive to reply to this thread and clear up the game makers standpoint. I guess ill have to ferry all this heavy loot to empire over 40 jumps and spend a month getting my standings up with a corp out there just to make the skill work as it should.
Captain Thunderpants	Posted - 2004.08.05 08:47:00 - [30] Thanks for spending the time with a slow to accept thicko fubar. But the way is see it is ore and loot processing will always give a wastage of 1 if not at 6.7 with corp. So the skill is useless to people with no access to agents in the station i.e some 0.0 stations. If the maths at ccp is bugged I would prefer to see the station take the 1 and it not show in wastage for it is making me paranoid. I just feel i have duped into spending over a month to get no further on in the game. I would still like a CCP representitive to reply to this thread and clear up the game makers standpoint. I guess ill have to ferry all this heavy loot to empire over 40 jumps and spend a month getting my standings up with a corp out there just to make the skill work as it should.
Fubar	Posted - 2004.08.05 17:12:00 - [31] Originally by: Captain Thunderpants Thanks for spending the time with a slow to accept thicko fubar. But the way is see it is ore and loot processing will always give a wastage of 1 if not at 6.7 with corp. So the skill is useless to people with no access to agents in the station i.e some 0.0 stations. If the maths at ccp is bugged I would prefer to see the station take the 1 and it not show in wastage for it is making me paranoid. I just feel i have duped into spending over a month to get no further on in the game. I would still like a CCP representitive to reply to this thread and clear up the game makers standpoint. I guess ill have to ferry all this heavy loot to empire over 40 jumps and spend a month getting my standings up with a corp out there just to make the skill work as it should. I can understand your frustration. Taking the time to train 2 rank 3 skills to level 5 just so you can train a skill to get that last piece of zydrine or megacyte just to find out the station takes it anyway. And I do agree with you the display of the "We Take" and "Unrecoverable" amounts should be looked at. The improper display is causing too much frustration in the player base.
Fubar	Posted - 2004.08.05 17:12:00 - [32] Originally by: Captain Thunderpants Thanks for spending the time with a slow to accept thicko fubar. But the way is see it is ore and loot processing will always give a wastage of 1 if not at 6.7 with corp. So the skill is useless to people with no access to agents in the station i.e some 0.0 stations. If the maths at ccp is bugged I would prefer to see the station take the 1 and it not show in wastage for it is making me paranoid. I just feel i have duped into spending over a month to get no further on in the game. I would still like a CCP representitive to reply to this thread and clear up the game makers standpoint. I guess ill have to ferry all this heavy loot to empire over 40 jumps and spend a month getting my standings up with a corp out there just to make the skill work as it should. I can understand your frustration. Taking the time to train 2 rank 3 skills to level 5 just so you can train a skill to get that last piece of zydrine or megacyte just to find out the station takes it anyway. And I do agree with you the display of the "We Take" and "Unrecoverable" amounts should be looked at. The improper display is causing too much frustration in the player base.
Captain Thunderpants	Posted - 2004.08.05 17:34:00 - [33] Well we finally got there. Now its up to CCP to fix. ASAP would be nice. Thanks again Fubar.
Captain Thunderpants	Posted - 2004.08.05 17:34:00 - [34] Well we finally got there. Now its up to CCP to fix. ASAP would be nice. Thanks again Fubar.
Sash	Posted - 2004.08.05 21:32:00 - [35] Originally by: Fubar Originally by: Captain Thunderpants Then why in a test refine did i get. iso 1719 90 1 mega 17 0 1 zyd 95 5 0 on the mega there is a no we take so wastage should be 0 as well and on zyd they take 5 so wastage should be 1. And as stated earlier 1 have spod skill to level 1 and that gives perfect unrecoverable but omber at level 3 gives 1 wastage. Same station on all of these refines. There muust be a bug in the equations used in game. We dont want to sink time into refining skills to get that last precious mineral to de duped by CCP. Sorry i cant do a screenie no acces to webspace at the mo. Does this screenshot show the problem you are describing? If so adding the 3 columns together to get base minerals in the module. Isogen: 1 Megacyte: 2 Mexallon: 61 Nocxium: 1 Pyerite: 13238 Tritanium: 15630 Zydrine: 1 this can be verified by this screenshot. Ok now to the math... We know we are getting 100% of the minerals minus the stations take. Isogen: 1 * 0.95 = 0.95 = trunced 0 Megacyte: 2 * 0.95 = 1.9 = trunced 1 Mexallon: 61 * 0.95 = 57.95 = trunced 57 Nocxium: 1 * 0.95 = 0.95 = trunced 0 Pyerite: 13238 * 0.95 = 12576.10 = trunced 12576 Tritanium: 15630 * 0.95 = 14848.50 = trunced 14848 Zyrdine: 1 * 0.95 = 0.95 = trunced 0 The station manager are greedy so when they take their percentage they take one whole unit even if the percentage they get is only 0.1%. You will not get that last piece of megacyte or zydrine until you have a standing of over 6.6666666 with the station owners and only at a 50% station. See this forum post on EVE-I for the refining/recycling formulas. Well, your screenshot and remarks are correct - when the station base yield is 50%. But, when on a 30% base yield station, for some reason the scrapmetal skill has no affect, and the waste factor is far more than one. I have a screen shot to prove that (same one I sent to CCP). Do note that the other specialty refining skills (omber and such) does has an affect. My scrapmetal skill is at level III - which should be more than enough for a 30% station... I'll crunch the numbers: Refining V, Refinery Efficiency V, Scrapmetal III Station gives 30%, combined with my skills: 86.925% Quote for Recycling 2 Light ION Blaster I Isogen 33, 1, 6 Mexallon 123, 6, 21 Pyerite 214, 11, 35 Tritanium 2477, 130, 393 I hope this clears my point. Thanks, Sash Sash VoxCel Corp
Sash	Posted - 2004.08.05 21:32:00 - [36] Originally by: Fubar Originally by: Captain Thunderpants Then why in a test refine did i get. iso 1719 90 1 mega 17 0 1 zyd 95 5 0 on the mega there is a no we take so wastage should be 0 as well and on zyd they take 5 so wastage should be 1. And as stated earlier 1 have spod skill to level 1 and that gives perfect unrecoverable but omber at level 3 gives 1 wastage. Same station on all of these refines. There muust be a bug in the equations used in game. We dont want to sink time into refining skills to get that last precious mineral to de duped by CCP. Sorry i cant do a screenie no acces to webspace at the mo. Does this screenshot show the problem you are describing? If so adding the 3 columns together to get base minerals in the module. Isogen: 1 Megacyte: 2 Mexallon: 61 Nocxium: 1 Pyerite: 13238 Tritanium: 15630 Zydrine: 1 this can be verified by this screenshot. Ok now to the math... We know we are getting 100% of the minerals minus the stations take. Isogen: 1 * 0.95 = 0.95 = trunced 0 Megacyte: 2 * 0.95 = 1.9 = trunced 1 Mexallon: 61 * 0.95 = 57.95 = trunced 57 Nocxium: 1 * 0.95 = 0.95 = trunced 0 Pyerite: 13238 * 0.95 = 12576.10 = trunced 12576 Tritanium: 15630 * 0.95 = 14848.50 = trunced 14848 Zyrdine: 1 * 0.95 = 0.95 = trunced 0 The station manager are greedy so when they take their percentage they take one whole unit even if the percentage they get is only 0.1%. You will not get that last piece of megacyte or zydrine until you have a standing of over 6.6666666 with the station owners and only at a 50% station. See this forum post on EVE-I for the refining/recycling formulas. Well, your screenshot and remarks are correct - when the station base yield is 50%. But, when on a 30% base yield station, for some reason the scrapmetal skill has no affect, and the waste factor is far more than one. I have a screen shot to prove that (same one I sent to CCP). Do note that the other specialty refining skills (omber and such) does has an affect. My scrapmetal skill is at level III - which should be more than enough for a 30% station... I'll crunch the numbers: Refining V, Refinery Efficiency V, Scrapmetal III Station gives 30%, combined with my skills: 86.925% Quote for Recycling 2 Light ION Blaster I Isogen 33, 1, 6 Mexallon 123, 6, 21 Pyerite 214, 11, 35 Tritanium 2477, 130, 393 I hope this clears my point. Thanks, Sash Sash VoxCel Corp
Fubar	Posted - 2004.08.05 23:32:00 - [37] Edited by: Fubar on 05/08/2004 23:36:20 Originally by: Sash Well, your screenshot and remarks are correct - when the station base yield is 50%. But, when on a 30% base yield station, for some reason the scrapmetal skill has no affect, and the waste factor is far more than one. I have a screen shot to prove that (same one I sent to CCP). Do note that the other specialty refining skills (omber and such) does has an affect. My scrapmetal skill is at level III - which should be more than enough for a 30% station... I'll crunch the numbers: Refining V, Refinery Efficiency V, Scrapmetal III Station gives 30%, combined with my skills: 86.925% Quote for Recycling 2 Light ION Blaster I Isogen 33, 1, 6 Mexallon 123, 6, 21 Pyerite 214, 11, 35 Tritanium 2477, 130, 393 I hope this clears my point. Thanks, Sash It appears you are forgetting about the station take percentage. The numbers you provide show a station take of 5%. Remember that 5% comes out of your total. Lets look at tritanium: Base: 3000 (2477 + 130 + 393) Combined skills: 86.925% (30 + (37.5 * 1.10 * 1.20 * 1.15)) Station take: 5% 3000 * 0.86925 * (1 - 0.05) = 2477.3625 trunced = 2477 Edit If you didn't have scrapmetel processing level 3 Base: 3000 (2477 + 130 + 393) Combined skills: 79.5% (30 + (37.5 * 1.10 * 1.20 * 1)) Station take: 5% 3000 * 0.795 * (1 - 0.05) = 2265.75 trunced = 2265
Fubar	Posted - 2004.08.05 23:32:00 - [38] Edited by: Fubar on 05/08/2004 23:36:20 Originally by: Sash Well, your screenshot and remarks are correct - when the station base yield is 50%. But, when on a 30% base yield station, for some reason the scrapmetal skill has no affect, and the waste factor is far more than one. I have a screen shot to prove that (same one I sent to CCP). Do note that the other specialty refining skills (omber and such) does has an affect. My scrapmetal skill is at level III - which should be more than enough for a 30% station... I'll crunch the numbers: Refining V, Refinery Efficiency V, Scrapmetal III Station gives 30%, combined with my skills: 86.925% Quote for Recycling 2 Light ION Blaster I Isogen 33, 1, 6 Mexallon 123, 6, 21 Pyerite 214, 11, 35 Tritanium 2477, 130, 393 I hope this clears my point. Thanks, Sash It appears you are forgetting about the station take percentage. The numbers you provide show a station take of 5%. Remember that 5% comes out of your total. Lets look at tritanium: Base: 3000 (2477 + 130 + 393) Combined skills: 86.925% (30 + (37.5 * 1.10 * 1.20 * 1.15)) Station take: 5% 3000 * 0.86925 * (1 - 0.05) = 2477.3625 trunced = 2477 Edit If you didn't have scrapmetel processing level 3 Base: 3000 (2477 + 130 + 393) Combined skills: 79.5% (30 + (37.5 * 1.10 * 1.20 * 1)) Station take: 5% 3000 * 0.795 * (1 - 0.05) = 2265.75 trunced = 2265
Sash	Posted - 2004.08.06 05:07:00 - [39] Originally by: Fubar Edited by: Fubar on 05/08/2004 23:36:20 Originally by: Sash I'll crunch the numbers: Refining V, Refinery Efficiency V, Scrapmetal III Station gives 30%, combined with my skills: 86.925% It appears you are forgetting about the station take percentage. The numbers you provide show a station take of 5%. Remember that 5% comes out of your total. Lets look at tritanium: Base: 3000 (2477 + 130 + 393) Combined skills: 86.925% (30 + (37.5 * 1.10 * 1.20 * 1.15)) Station take: 5% 3000 * 0.86925 * (1 - 0.05) = 2477.3625 trunced = 2477 Edit If you didn't have scrapmetel processing level 3 Base: 3000 (2477 + 130 + 393) Combined skills: 79.5% (30 + (37.5 * 1.10 * 1.20 * 1)) Station take: 5% 3000 * 0.795 * (1 - 0.05) = 2265.75 trunced = 2265 It seems the formula you did is correct - the 1.15 (scrapmetal lvl III) but then the big mistery is now is why the station stats indicates I have a 86.925% (the refine/reprocess screen)? I don't have all the other refining skills at 3, some of them are higher, some of them are lower. This is where I got that number, not from computing the actual formula. Any idea? Sash Sash VoxCel Corp
Sash	Posted - 2004.08.06 05:07:00 - [40] Originally by: Fubar Edited by: Fubar on 05/08/2004 23:36:20 Originally by: Sash I'll crunch the numbers: Refining V, Refinery Efficiency V, Scrapmetal III Station gives 30%, combined with my skills: 86.925% It appears you are forgetting about the station take percentage. The numbers you provide show a station take of 5%. Remember that 5% comes out of your total. Lets look at tritanium: Base: 3000 (2477 + 130 + 393) Combined skills: 86.925% (30 + (37.5 * 1.10 * 1.20 * 1.15)) Station take: 5% 3000 * 0.86925 * (1 - 0.05) = 2477.3625 trunced = 2477 Edit If you didn't have scrapmetel processing level 3 Base: 3000 (2477 + 130 + 393) Combined skills: 79.5% (30 + (37.5 * 1.10 * 1.20 * 1)) Station take: 5% 3000 * 0.795 * (1 - 0.05) = 2265.75 trunced = 2265 It seems the formula you did is correct - the 1.15 (scrapmetal lvl III) but then the big mistery is now is why the station stats indicates I have a 86.925% (the refine/reprocess screen)? I don't have all the other refining skills at 3, some of them are higher, some of them are lower. This is where I got that number, not from computing the actual formula. Any idea? Sash Sash VoxCel Corp
Fubar	Posted - 2004.08.06 06:27:00 - [41] Edited by: Fubar on 06/08/2004 06:30:27 Originally by: Sash It seems the formula you did is correct - the 1.15 (scrapmetal lvl III) but then the big mistery is now is why the station stats indicates I have a 86.925% (the refine/reprocess screen)? I don't have all the other refining skills at 3, some of them are higher, some of them are lower. This is where I got that number, not from computing the actual formula. Any idea? Sash The net yield display in the Reprocessing Plant is bugged, ie it includes the scrapmetal processing skill bonus when it should not. The screen even states "Note that this does not take into account any specialty skills that you might have, such as Scordite Processing or Scrapmetal Processing, check refining quote for detailed information." I wonder what the detailed information that is talking about? These two minor bugs (that don't affect the minerals you receive from the refining) are causing allot of confusion. I am posting some graphs for your amusement. Net Yield - 50% Station - includes processing skill Net Yield - 30% Station - includes processing skill Personal Standings - 50% Standing - Net Yield of 100%
Fubar	Posted - 2004.08.06 06:27:00 - [42] Edited by: Fubar on 06/08/2004 06:30:27 Originally by: Sash It seems the formula you did is correct - the 1.15 (scrapmetal lvl III) but then the big mistery is now is why the station stats indicates I have a 86.925% (the refine/reprocess screen)? I don't have all the other refining skills at 3, some of them are higher, some of them are lower. This is where I got that number, not from computing the actual formula. Any idea? Sash The net yield display in the Reprocessing Plant is bugged, ie it includes the scrapmetal processing skill bonus when it should not. The screen even states "Note that this does not take into account any specialty skills that you might have, such as Scordite Processing or Scrapmetal Processing, check refining quote for detailed information." I wonder what the detailed information that is talking about? These two minor bugs (that don't affect the minerals you receive from the refining) are causing allot of confusion. I am posting some graphs for your amusement. Net Yield - 50% Station - includes processing skill Net Yield - 30% Station - includes processing skill Personal Standings - 50% Standing - Net Yield of 100%
Ryco	Posted - 2004.08.06 16:00:00 - [43] Originally by: Fubar Edited by: Fubar on 06/08/2004 06:30:27 Originally by: Sash It seems the formula you did is correct - the 1.15 (scrapmetal lvl III) but then the big mistery is now is why the station stats indicates I have a 86.925% (the refine/reprocess screen)? I don't have all the other refining skills at 3, some of them are higher, some of them are lower. This is where I got that number, not from computing the actual formula. Any idea? Sash The net yield display in the Reprocessing Plant is bugged, ie it includes the scrapmetal processing skill bonus when it should not. The screen even states "Note that this does not take into account any specialty skills that you might have, such as Scordite Processing or Scrapmetal Processing, check refining quote for detailed information." I wonder what the detailed information that is talking about? These two minor bugs (that don't affect the minerals you receive from the refining) are causing allot of confusion. I am posting some graphs for your amusement. Net Yield - 50% Station - includes processing skill Net Yield - 30% Station - includes processing skill Personal Standings - 50% Standing - Net Yield of 100% Im pretty sure your last graph is in correct. For negative ratings CCP uses a different fixed value. The formula for positive ratings is: tax=0.05-(station rating0.0075) But for negative ratings its: tax=0.05-(station rating0.075) If youll notice, the constant inside the parenthesis changes based on whether your rating is positive or negative. With a constant that is ten times higher for a negative rating you would actually have to pay 80% of your refine in taxes with a rating of -10. I have tested this with ratings just below 0.
Ryco	Posted - 2004.08.06 16:00:00 - [44] Originally by: Fubar Edited by: Fubar on 06/08/2004 06:30:27 Originally by: Sash It seems the formula you did is correct - the 1.15 (scrapmetal lvl III) but then the big mistery is now is why the station stats indicates I have a 86.925% (the refine/reprocess screen)? I don't have all the other refining skills at 3, some of them are higher, some of them are lower. This is where I got that number, not from computing the actual formula. Any idea? Sash The net yield display in the Reprocessing Plant is bugged, ie it includes the scrapmetal processing skill bonus when it should not. The screen even states "Note that this does not take into account any specialty skills that you might have, such as Scordite Processing or Scrapmetal Processing, check refining quote for detailed information." I wonder what the detailed information that is talking about? These two minor bugs (that don't affect the minerals you receive from the refining) are causing allot of confusion. I am posting some graphs for your amusement. Net Yield - 50% Station - includes processing skill Net Yield - 30% Station - includes processing skill Personal Standings - 50% Standing - Net Yield of 100% Im pretty sure your last graph is in correct. For negative ratings CCP uses a different fixed value. The formula for positive ratings is: tax=0.05-(station rating0.0075) But for negative ratings its: tax=0.05-(station rating0.075) If youll notice, the constant inside the parenthesis changes based on whether your rating is positive or negative. With a constant that is ten times higher for a negative rating you would actually have to pay 80% of your refine in taxes with a rating of -10. I have tested this with ratings just below 0.
Fubar	Posted - 2004.08.06 16:31:00 - [45] Originally by: Ryco Im pretty sure your last graph is in correct. For negative ratings CCP uses a different fixed value. The formula for positive ratings is: tax=0.05-(station rating0.0075) But for negative ratings its: tax=0.05-(station rating0.075) If youll notice, the constant inside the parenthesis changes based on whether your rating is positive or negative. With a constant that is ten times higher for a negative rating you would actually have to pay 80% of your refine in taxes with a rating of -10. I have tested this with ratings just below 0. Thanks, I will make a note of that and change the graph.
Fubar	Posted - 2004.08.06 16:31:00 - [46] Originally by: Ryco Im pretty sure your last graph is in correct. For negative ratings CCP uses a different fixed value. The formula for positive ratings is: tax=0.05-(station rating0.0075) But for negative ratings its: tax=0.05-(station rating0.075) If youll notice, the constant inside the parenthesis changes based on whether your rating is positive or negative. With a constant that is ten times higher for a negative rating you would actually have to pay 80% of your refine in taxes with a rating of -10. I have tested this with ratings just below 0. Thanks, I will make a note of that and change the graph.
Valorian	Posted - 2004.08.07 08:45:00 - [47] The detailed information is what you see when you select refine/recycle, showing the actual mineral yield. For the 1 unit that ends up in waste, this is basically all fractional amounts truncated from the first two columns. It is possible to refine/recycle a stack that provides an amount that provides exact integer results for the first two columns, and in that instance the mineral concerned has 0 wastage. Also some items when recycled show 0 0 0 against a mineral (most commonly zydrine). When enough of these items are stacked for recycle you actually get a value of 1 appearing in one of the columns (which column depending on your skills and faction standing). Seriously the "bug" related to the 1 wastage appearing is something we should be able to trivially ignore. And if you really don't like it, run the agent missions for an NPC corp you wish to refine regularly at. If there is a display bug related to the recoverable % (ignoring processing skills) related to trained lvl of Scrapmetal processing, then obviously that should be fixed. However, I suggest you check some of those stations again, where you see a slightly higher recoverable % might be because the station has 32% not 30%, or some other value. An NPC Corporation is not the pilot of its ships and structures!
Valorian	Posted - 2004.08.07 08:45:00 - [48] The detailed information is what you see when you select refine/recycle, showing the actual mineral yield. For the 1 unit that ends up in waste, this is basically all fractional amounts truncated from the first two columns. It is possible to refine/recycle a stack that provides an amount that provides exact integer results for the first two columns, and in that instance the mineral concerned has 0 wastage. Also some items when recycled show 0 0 0 against a mineral (most commonly zydrine). When enough of these items are stacked for recycle you actually get a value of 1 appearing in one of the columns (which column depending on your skills and faction standing). Seriously the "bug" related to the 1 wastage appearing is something we should be able to trivially ignore. And if you really don't like it, run the agent missions for an NPC corp you wish to refine regularly at. If there is a display bug related to the recoverable % (ignoring processing skills) related to trained lvl of Scrapmetal processing, then obviously that should be fixed. However, I suggest you check some of those stations again, where you see a slightly higher recoverable % might be because the station has 32% not 30%, or some other value. An NPC Corporation is not the pilot of its ships and structures!
Spate	Posted - 2004.08.08 11:45:00 - [49] Great thread! Is it any point in training scrap metal processing above lvl 1 then? I mean, the volume of loot that a player accumulates between recycling sessions is usually quite small. In other words, it is probably no issue to bring everything to a station that has 50% equipment. (6.7 standing is not a problem...) The same goes for specialist processing of common ore types. Common ore can always be found close to 50% stations, where you just need 6.7 standing and the proper processing skill at lvl 1 to get 100% yield. We are then left with the rare ore types, that can only be found in 0.0 space. In this case the player is forced to use one of the nearby stations, which are not necessarily 50% stations. In these occasions a higher level in specialist ore processing is useful. or did I get something wrong?
Spate	Posted - 2004.08.08 11:45:00 - [50] Great thread! Is it any point in training scrap metal processing above lvl 1 then? I mean, the volume of loot that a player accumulates between recycling sessions is usually quite small. In other words, it is probably no issue to bring everything to a station that has 50% equipment. (6.7 standing is not a problem...) The same goes for specialist processing of common ore types. Common ore can always be found close to 50% stations, where you just need 6.7 standing and the proper processing skill at lvl 1 to get 100% yield. We are then left with the rare ore types, that can only be found in 0.0 space. In this case the player is forced to use one of the nearby stations, which are not necessarily 50% stations. In these occasions a higher level in specialist ore processing is useful. or did I get something wrong?
Tokka Konnair	Posted - 2004.08.08 12:36:00 - [51] remember the specialist skills will also be useful for Anchored Refinerys which will probaby have a lower yield than 30% __________________________________________
Tokka Konnair	Posted - 2004.08.08 12:36:00 - [52] remember the specialist skills will also be useful for Anchored Refinerys which will probaby have a lower yield than 30% __________________________________________
RaTTuS	Posted - 2004.08.09 11:38:00 - [53] they where at 10% when tested before castor ... that was before the refining skills where available but I can probbaly believe the 10% BIG Lottery BIG Deal Damn Sig text length nurf
RaTTuS	Posted - 2004.08.09 11:38:00 - [54] they where at 10% when tested before castor ... that was before the refining skills where available but I can probbaly believe the 10% BIG Lottery BIG Deal Damn Sig text length nurf

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