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ebonyivory	Posted - 2009.02.07 22:28:00 - [1] So since the whole lose sp when you die thing has appeared for t3 ships perhaps this will bring back ransoming to life. i Mean there will always be carebears taking the shorter route for lo sec and some will eventually have to bring t3 ships so it stands to reason that they would be more willing to pay the ransom rather than lose sp. Also with the hinted changes by ccp (bs sized rats on low sec gates/npc ambushes etc) there might be a new influx of carebears into lo sec discuss
Rawrior Gallente Neo Spartans	Posted - 2009.02.07 22:51:00 - [2] who would want to eve risk it? Besides, I'd enjoy the hatemail from someone losing sp more than I'd enjoy their monies tbh
Psir	Posted - 2009.02.07 23:01:00 - [3] Quote: I'd enjoy the hatemail from someone losing sp more than I'd enjoy their monies tbh This, besides there's nothing that'll brighten your day like that big blue poof when you blow someone up (especially if you have a big monitor). You don't PvP for profit, it's just a nice bonus, should you get any. I doubt that T3 will change this.
VoiceInTheDesert Diplomatic Disruption Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.02.07 23:59:00 - [4] I have not heard about this "losing sp thing" with t3 ships. Can anyone illuminate/link me to this information? goes off to search google as well
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.08 00:00:00 - [5] TL;DR -> when you lose your T3 ship, all the accumulated experience is lost. nothing to do with your pod's sp
Insa Rexion Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.02.08 00:53:00 - [6] Originally by: Concorduck TL;DR -> when you lose your T3 ship, all the accumulated experience is lost. nothing to do with your pod's sp rly ? jebus, given how prohibitively expensive they will be and this nice little penalty for losing one.....will we ever see anyone use T3 ships as anything except hisec "look at me" cruise mobiles ?
achoura	Posted - 2009.02.08 00:59:00 - [7] Edited by: achoura on 08/02/2009 00:59:42 Each of the five modules require a specific skill (i.e. you'll need 5 rather than 1 to fly a t3 ship). Since risking isk is too boring, when you go pop along with your isk one level of one of the five skills will be chosen at random and lost so yes, you die you loose sp. Aside from them being pricey initially, i'd say that's good incentive to pay up. Conversely, it's wont get me flying one over my current recon/hac because if ccp do balance them well, there wont be any reason too. The idea is a ship you can strip down and refit to cover multiple situations/transport easily but breaking them down destroys rigs so that advantage is negated totally (i mean moving hacs is easy, we just don't do it because we loose rigs). The second problem is they're not ment to be more powerful than tii, so essentially you get this. Two ships to choose, both have similar performance, both have similar cost. Loose the first you loose isk, loose the second you loose isk and sp i.e you loose time, the one finite resource in eve but more importantly, your life, which would you fly? Either they have to be cheaper than tii to negate the drawbacks or proportionately more powerful but ccp dont want either so go figure (sounds like b.ops). Pvp wise there's almost zero incentive to fly one considering how frequently ships are lost. I mean why bother training a ship skill to 5, or even 4, if you loose the time/sp at the first bubble you meet, camp you run into or roaming gang, dd etc, etc. 3 types of people will fly these. Firstly rich types who want the new toys, thankfully despite buying isk they cant buy mre time/sp so realistically, you've got the edge the second you catch them. Secondly epeen, aka the idiots you find "pvping" through lowsec, same as rich guy but lower iq = isk. Third pve types which, considering how infrequently loose ships, seem the ones most likely to be drawn to them, lost of isk and low risk missions. Frankly t3 (from what ccp have said) is simply not worth the investment over tii pvp wise. They sound more like something i'm going to spend ample time removing isk from, or killing but the former to begin with. If experience teaches you anything it's that right after someone get a new toy it visits a low sec system near you *The EVE servers and their patches*
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2009.02.08 01:42:00 - [8] I will never be flying t3 ships if ccp keep it this way, ever.
achoura	Posted - 2009.02.08 02:11:00 - [9] They'll find more of their player base flying black ops that these but more importantly low demand = no reason to look for wormholes = waste of the new 50% system expansion (how many thousand systems?). Despite that there are going to be twits with isk flying them which will almost certainly pay up when asked. The f u i'm rich respone won't work with sp http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=992740 *The EVE servers and their patches*
Htrag The Carebear Stare	Posted - 2009.02.08 02:12:00 - [10] Does t3 apply only to ships? If so thats total crap besides ransom. If there was t3 loot that would be kinda cool to replace the worthless t2 ****.

Skira Ranos Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel	Posted - 2009.02.08 02:23:00 - [11] Originally by: achoura They'll find more of their player base flying black ops that these but more importantly low demand = no reason to look for wormholes = waste of the new 50% system expansion (how many thousand systems?). 2.5 thousand systems. And tech 3 will be far from the only reason to explore them.
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.08 09:46:00 - [12] are they addressing the back-to-front missile physics in this new patch or just releasing something that we dont need? Recruiting \o/
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Horsemen of Apocalypse	Posted - 2009.02.08 16:41:00 - [13] Edited by: soldieroffortune 258 on 08/02/2009 16:42:02
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2009.02.08 16:50:00 - [14] If you LOSE sp when losing a ship - that essentially will keep me completely uninterested in them. What a huge pre-nerf. Now I gotta find that info to make sure - and find a place to let CCP know this is a HORRIBLE idea.
Cone Filler	Posted - 2009.02.08 17:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Omarvelous If you LOSE sp when losing a ship - that essentially will keep me completely uninterested in them. What a huge pre-nerf. Now I gotta find that info to make sure - and find a place to let CCP know this is a HORRIBLE idea. Well if you watched the Alliance tourney Live saturday you would know where this was said.... it was a live interview with CCP Troithernsrw or smt ( why cant they choose names we remember )
sir gankalot	Posted - 2009.02.08 17:10:00 - [16] Originally by: ebonyivory So since the whole lose sp when you die thing has appeared for t3 ships perhaps this will bring back ransoming to life. i Mean there will always be carebears taking the shorter route for lo sec and some will eventually have to bring t3 ships so it stands to reason that they would be more willing to pay the ransom rather than lose sp. Also with the hinted changes by ccp (bs sized rats on low sec gates/npc ambushes etc) there might be a new influx of carebears into lo sec discuss Lose sp when you die? There are clones for that right?
Kaldoreign Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.08 19:06:00 - [17] That will surely make even more players go in low/null sec. Not only that it is risking isk, now you can lose SP too !
Cyprus Black Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.02.08 21:47:00 - [18] Originally by: Kaeten I will never be flying t3 ships if ccp keep it this way, ever. QFT ______________ Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
Jita Boy1	Posted - 2009.02.09 02:26:00 - [19] will be very interesting to see
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis Mean Coalition	Posted - 2009.02.09 04:17:00 - [20] If you really wanted to, you can always completely remove all risk from PvPing, thus making losing T3 ships a moot point. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats

Vietone Gallente Mercury Industries	Posted - 2009.02.09 04:17:00 - [21] All this does is make it so that T3 ships will be mainly in high sec and rarely used for PvP.
Grunanca Mean Corp Mean Coalition	Posted - 2009.02.09 04:51:00 - [22] Edited by: Grunanca on 09/02/2009 04:52:03 Guess at best this means my alt can trainf or them is it makes L4 missions faster... I wont really be pirating in a ship that causes me to lose sp. I can already lose training time and implants when losing a pod. Why not just let you get podded when losing a T3 ship instead? Keeps the high grade implants out of these ships.
Major Stallion The Dark Horses	Posted - 2009.02.09 08:54:00 - [23] Edited by: Major Stallion on 09/02/2009 08:56:23 Originally by: ebonyivory So since the whole lose sp when you die thing has appeared for t3 ships perhaps this will bring back ransoming to life. i Mean there will always be carebears taking the shorter route for lo sec and some will eventually have to bring t3 ships so it stands to reason that they would be more willing to pay the ransom rather than lose sp. Also with the hinted changes by ccp (bs sized rats on low sec gates/npc ambushes etc) there might be a new influx of carebears into lo sec discuss wait what? are you saying that when you lose a t3 ship, you'll lose sp? lol, if thats the case, ransoms wont be coming back. Just no one will buy t3.
hellsknights SniggWaffe	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:22:00 - [24] T3 is gonna be crap if you lose SP. Ive taken breaks from this game and still trained, i would never train a skill knowing im gonna lose SP if i lose the ship. WTF is the point of losing SP when you lose a ship.......another empire carebearing patch i say. Give the PVPers something other then SP loss........ CCP gets the FRUITCAKE AWARD!!!!!!!!!of the day
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:40:00 - [25] Originally by: hellsknights T3 is gonna be crap if you lose SP. Ive taken breaks from this game and still trained, i would never train a skill knowing im gonna lose SP if i lose the ship. WTF is the point of losing SP when you lose a ship.......another empire carebearing patch i say. Give the PVPers something other then SP loss........ CCP gets the FRUITCAKE AWARD!!!!!!!!!of the day Aren't you speaking like a carebear now? A) you get to kill carebears in T3s that suck at it. B) You don't need to train the T3 subsystem skills, if you want you can opt to only train the T3 ship skill, and be fine with it. C) It's definately gonna be risk and reward, and I am totally looking forward to destroying those who deem me and my t3 a easy target. /Riv
Vyore Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:41:00 - [26] If you dont like losing sp ofc u dont have to fly it. But i think there are quite a few people playing eve for some time now. The most fun many ppl i know including myself have is the thrill at flying something expensive. Maybe some ppl disagree here but if you just died in ur hac buy a new one and rly dont care about the loss its getting boring. And they already said they will implement t3 based on the feedback given on the testserver, so its not in stone yet. [imghttp://img393.imageshack.us/img393/3425/sharinganzu9yn0.jpg[/img]
hellsknights SniggWaffe	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:46:00 - [27] Originally by: Rivqua Originally by: hellsknights T3 is gonna be crap if you lose SP. Ive taken breaks from this game and still trained, i would never train a skill knowing im gonna lose SP if i lose the ship. WTF is the point of losing SP when you lose a ship.......another empire carebearing patch i say. Give the PVPers something other then SP loss........ CCP gets the FRUITCAKE AWARD!!!!!!!!!of the day Aren't you speaking like a carebear now? A) you get to kill carebears in T3s that suck at it. B) You don't need to train the T3 subsystem skills, if you want you can opt to only train the T3 ship skill, and be fine with it. C) It's definately gonna be risk and reward, and I am totally looking forward to destroying those who deem me and my t3 a easy target. /Riv Hmmmmm speaking like a carebear..... unfortunately they make clones so you dont lose sp, so why would you lose any from a ship loss I like to specialize in the ships i fly, many pilots do this, so if i fly the ship im gonna want to have a good part of sp invested in the said ship. To lose that SP would be a waste of time on my part. Lose a set of slaves......lose a faction ship.......big ****en deal.....lose sp......waste of time on my part. My opinion really and im sure plenty others feel the same.
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:49:00 - [28] Then eject before you get blown up, done :) /Riv
hellsknights SniggWaffe	Posted - 2009.02.09 09:57:00 - [29] lol.....nice one, thats thinking out of the box..... Unfortunately i dont think CCP will make it that easy, if this is implemented i thin kthe SP loss will be linked to the ship loss......who knows.... One thing is certain, if i lose sp im not gonna train for the ships or fly them for that matter. In my eyes SP is the only true value in this game....
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.02.09 12:03:00 - [30] Originally by: hellsknights lol.....nice one, thats thinking out of the box..... Unfortunately i dont think CCP will make it that easy, if this is implemented i thin kthe SP loss will be linked to the ship loss......who knows.... One thing is certain, if i lose sp im not gonna train for the ships or fly them for that matter. In my eyes SP is the only true value in this game.... Actually it was confirmed that ejecting keeps your SP, as a boost to piracy rewards, where the pirate then can comandeer the ship (if he has T3 flying skills or a orca) :) /Riv

Dennmoth Ferdier	Posted - 2009.02.09 12:13:00 - [31] I see no change, at least for myself. I never pay ransom, and I won't even if I flew a t3 ship in to a pirate camp. If I did, the result would be the same, t3 or not. I pay, they kill me and laugh, I go away, they receive hatemail. Nothing has changed.
Matrix Skye Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.09 12:25:00 - [32] If CCP would only reconsider having this idea only apply to carebears but change it for us piraty pirate types everything would be well. That way it'd be risk vs rewards for teh bearz and we'd get some juicy hatemail from them when they go pop. It's a win-win... For us mean piwats .
Azuse Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.02.09 13:56:00 - [33] Originally by: Dennmoth Ferdier I see no change, at least for myself. I never pay ransom, and I won't even if I flew a t3 ship in to a pirate camp. If I did, the result would be the same, t3 or not. I pay, they kill me and laugh, I go away, they receive hatemail. Nothing has changed. Then you need to move m8, if that's what passes for piracy in your area. Besides, people who don't pay on principle (when they know that they actually will be released) tend not to be the smarts pilots in the game. Waste hours making even more isk back then wandering around putting another ship back together vs. paying less, saving time and keeping ship intact. -------------------------
Madner Kami	Posted - 2009.02.09 14:15:00 - [34] Edited by: Madner Kami on 09/02/2009 14:27:40 Is there somewhere a voice record for what the CCP dude said? If yes, then you should listen more precisely to what he says, if no, then the following applies: T3 ships will gather "experience" during their duty. If the ship gets disassambled/reconfigured, then the ship's XP/SP are lost. Same applies when the ship is destroyed. Logically, if you eject from your ship, it doesn't loose it's XP. Also it's just a proposition without beeing a definite decission yet. Geez, cool down and be level-headed until Apocrypha is released on Sisi.
Rheed Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.09 16:39:00 - [35] Looks like this is going to seperate the men from the boys. I like it ;)
Chomin H'ak Integrated Takeovers	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:09:00 - [36] Originally by: Matrix Skye If CCP would only reconsider having this idea only apply to carebears but change it for us piraty pirate types everything would be well. That way it'd be risk vs rewards for teh bearz and we'd get some juicy hatemail from them when they go pop. It's a win-win... For us mean piwats . Quoting in a carebear turned 'piwat' thread.
JUDGE REAPER	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:37:00 - [37] frankly this SP loss thing dosent bother me 1-5 days of skill training lost to fly a T3 ship? it really wouldnt bother me to pay that penalty. i can fly what i want to fly anyway. plus iv seen no figures (note i havent specifically looked/heard of any figures) as to how much these T3 ships will cost. if theyre 100 mill, and IF you get podded loose like, 1-5 days of T3 learning (i say 1-5 cause, skills 1-4 dont take long to learn, and due to the loss, youd be insane to get lvl 5 unless your over confident) frankly if your afraid of loosing a little bit of SP amung loss then your a carebear. the SP is only for the T3 ships, not like ur gna loose out for your other ships
Matrix Skye Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.10 12:17:00 - [38] Originally by: Chomin H'ak Originally by: Matrix Skye If CCP would only reconsider having this idea only apply to carebears but change it for us piraty pirate types everything would be well. That way it'd be risk vs rewards for teh bearz and we'd get some juicy hatemail from them when they go pop. It's a win-win... For us mean piwats . Quoting in a carebear turned 'piwat' thread. . You must learn to read between the sarcasm tags. I'm sure there are plenty of idiots that have sentiments along the sarcastic one I typed above. Do you happen to be one of them?
Takezo Kensei Minmatar Session9 Malum Exuro	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:34:00 - [39] Quote: Looks like this is going to seperate the men from the boys. You sir are an idiot. Let's go long term shall we? 1 year? While you train and re-train those subsystems after "having phun" in yer T3 boat, I'm gonna come maxed out in my T2 and **** your sorry arse. Btw.. you know what they'll call a T3 boat in Apocrypha? Primary.
Rheed Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.02.10 19:17:00 - [40] Originally by: Takezo Kensei Quote: Looks like this is going to seperate the men from the boys. You sir are an idiot. Let's go long term shall we? 1 year? While you train and re-train those subsystems after "having phun" in yer T3 boat, I'm gonna come maxed out in my T2 and **** your sorry arse. Btw.. you know what they'll call a T3 boat in Apocrypha? Primary. I rest my case Look at me! I'm on the INTERNET!!!

Relkathi Hyklis Amarr Cloak and Daggers Ocularis Inferno	Posted - 2009.02.10 20:47:00 - [41] I am pretty sure that it is the "experience" that you lose, not SP. If what I remember reading is correct, they are trying to bring the whole "crew" notion into the game, for RP'ers or whatnot. So when you lose your ship, hence you lose the crew, and the experience that they have gained under your command. Now you have to go out and buy a new crew, or enslave, and start over. Again, this is what I "remember" reading with no regards as to how much I might have drunk either before or during that period. But I think that makes much more sense.
Normin Bates	Posted - 2009.02.10 22:21:00 - [42] Originally by: ebonyivory So since the whole lose sp when you die thing has appeared for t3 ships perhaps this will bring back ransoming to life. There will always be players who will give you ISK with the foolish belief that you'll actually honor a ransom.
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.02.11 04:25:00 - [43] Is anyone actually expecting to see one of these in space outside the test server? Originally by: Soporo This thread is obviously about hawt EVE sex. That is all.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.02.11 04:41:00 - [44] I cant wait, cheap t3 ships for me! although since they are all supposedly cruiser sized if they are no good for piracy well maybe not
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.02.11 11:25:00 - [45] Edited by: Kaileen Starsong on 11/02/2009 11:25:56 Tbh, it's all about how good these T3 ships would be. If it's cruiser-sized platform with BC+ capabilities and some specific bonuses(like dual sensor types), then why not? SP loss is only meaningful for people who are pretty much generalized in their SPs, if you already can fly everything you need/want, there's not much point in SP total raising Alas, if they're kinda equivalent to HACs(as in, oh so dead when they meet pvp-fit BC), they would be kind of worthless.
Grant Smith Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2009.02.11 12:43:00 - [46] You're all a bunch of wimps :D Including Kaeten! Grow some balls, the threat of potentially losing SP is going to make things far more interesting! Assuming I can afford one, I'll be getting straight in there! Bring it on!
Raindeth FACTION Inc.	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:32:00 - [47] OH! (duh) I was about to add to the "T3 is failsause" sentiment and then it hit me. What reward could justify this risk? And I remembered reading some of those chronicles and seeing that super-weapon in one of the videos. Perhaps T3 ships will allow you to fit that bad boy. (For those who haven't seen it, it looks like an area of effect weapon the jumps from enemy to enemy.) I mean there's going to have to be SOME reason to fly these things other than the "this is new" value, right? I bet that weapon is it!
K1RTH G3RS3N Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.	Posted - 2009.02.11 13:35:00 - [48] Originally by: Raindeth OH! (duh) I was about to add to the "T3 is failsause" sentiment and then it hit me. What reward could justify this risk? And I remembered reading some of those chronicles and seeing that super-weapon in one of the videos. Perhaps T3 ships will allow you to fit that bad boy. (For those who haven't seen it, it looks like an area of effect weapon the jumps from enemy to enemy.) I mean there's going to have to be SOME reason to fly these things other than the "this is new" value, right? I bet that weapon is it! nice! 1vsall ship... i like the sound of that - expensive or not would be worth its cost if it does what you say. what do Caldari ships get then? cluster bombs? Recruiting \o/
Sturdy Girl	Posted - 2009.02.11 14:16:00 - [49] Edited by: Sturdy Girl on 11/02/2009 14:18:02 Originally by: Matrix Skye You must learn to read between the sarcasm tags. I'm sure there are plenty of idiots that have sentiments along the sarcastic one I typed above. Do you happen to be one of them? Er. What sarcasm tags? Realistically speaking, you shouldn't use sarcasm in text-only communication, as it is not reasonable to expect people to get it when tone-of-voice is not available. Sure, some people MIGHT get it, in which case you can sit contentedly at your screen, knowing that your witicism was not wasted; however, if someone specifically doesn't get it, its more your fault than theirs (for trying to use form of language which isn't supported by the transmission medium).
Misina Arlath Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.11 14:43:00 - [50] How would losing SP bring back ransoms? If you are sitting in a locked down T3 ship, and someone is demanding ransom, do you think for even one second he won't pop you 1 nanosecond after you wire him the cash, just to get a T3 ship on the kill mail? Heck, you'd be lucky if someone even stopped shooting holes in your T3 ship to demand a ransom at all. These days it's all about the kill mail. The sooner you realize that, the better. Ransoms are a joke, and rarely ever honored, unless you fly something crappy like anything T1. -------------------------------------------------- "Every complex problem has a solution which is easy, neat and wrong!"

Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2009.02.11 18:51:00 - [51] Originally by: Misina Arlath How would losing SP bring back ransoms? If you are sitting in a locked down T3 ship, and someone is demanding ransom, do you think for even one second he won't pop you 1 nanosecond after you wire him the cash, just to get a T3 ship on the kill mail? Heck, you'd be lucky if someone even stopped shooting holes in your T3 ship to demand a ransom at all. These days it's all about the kill mail. The sooner you realize that, the better. Ransoms are a joke, and rarely ever honored, unless you fly something crappy like anything T1. Not true at all. I honor every ransom, although I rarely ransom inexpensive ships. But anything that is T2 or a BC or larger, I'll probably demand a ransom. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting
Updyke State Wh0re Academy	Posted - 2009.02.11 19:39:00 - [52] Originally by: Misina Arlath How would losing SP bring back ransoms? You wouldn't even need to ransom. Ppl are so **** scared of losing SP they'll eject as soon as they hit structure. 1. board ship 2. fly to station 3. repair 4. ????? 5. Profit
Captain Pompous Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It	Posted - 2009.02.11 22:41:00 - [53] Originally by: Updyke ... Hehehe...your name is mildly provocative -------------------------------------------- Yes, my name is Pompous. Yes, this has been designed for maximum deliberate effect. Well done for pointing that out. Well done you.
Chomin H'ak Integrated Takeovers	Posted - 2009.02.11 22:50:00 - [54] Originally by: Sturdy Girl Edited by: Sturdy Girl on 11/02/2009 14:18:02 Originally by: Matrix Skye You must learn to read between the sarcasm tags. I'm sure there are plenty of idiots that have sentiments along the sarcastic one I typed above. Do you happen to be one of them? Er. What sarcasm tags? Realistically speaking, you shouldn't use sarcasm in text-only communication, as it is not reasonable to expect people to get it when tone-of-voice is not available. Sure, some people MIGHT get it, in which case you can sit contentedly at your screen, knowing that your witicism was not wasted; however, if someone specifically doesn't get it, its more your fault than theirs (for trying to use form of language which isn't supported by the transmission medium). Originally by: Takezo Kensei you know what they'll call a T3 boat in Apocrypha? Primary. Win. Originally by: Frenden Dax My heart hopes that people aren't that stupid, but my experiences thus far suggest otherwise.
Ivan Malat	Posted - 2009.02.12 17:19:00 - [55] .


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