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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Talo Momoe
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.08 21:47:00 -
[1]
- you can't have two of the same ship
- you can't fit all the same weapon type on a ship
- you can't fit a t2 tank
- you can't use gang bonuses
- you can't fit propulsion mods
Seriously, CCP, you aren't even pretending this is a test of PvP ability anymore. WTF? |
Acinonyx Jubatus
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.02.08 21:52:00 -
[2]
You can't pilot a ship, period.
No one can fly the same thing, so.... dun dun dun... |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.02.08 21:53:00 -
[3]
Sincerely hope not. I would like arena radius to be extended 100km and tactical warping allowed.
Now that would make for some serious gankage and ECM countering.
The no logistics was a huge boon to this tournament and the point costs for ships encouraged expensive toys. Best tournament so far in my opinion. |
zurich93
SPECTRE Ops
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.02.08 21:54:00 -
[4]
Can i have your stuff? |
Rennion
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Posted - 2009.02.08 21:59:00 -
[5]
1) extend arena
2) allow bubbles
3) allow tactical warping and cov ops
4) ????
5) profit |
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2009.02.08 23:00:00 -
[6]
Not so much rules but sentry guns marking the boundaries of the arena, no heal zero, once in the buffer zone the guns open up on the ship going outside the fight zone. That way a pilot slipping may or may not recover from the mistake and we'll see some on-the-brink action. |
Ashan Sul
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Posted - 2009.02.08 23:03:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Not so much rules but sentry guns marking the boundaries of the arena, no heal zero, once in the buffer zone the guns open up on the ship going outside the fight zone. That way a pilot slipping may or may not recover from the mistake and we'll see some on-the-brink action.
this... it sounds like a very good ideea
the bubble thing too or at least some kind of visual boundary |
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CCP Claw
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Posted - 2009.02.09 01:23:00 -
[8]
The guns thing was actually something we considered for the fanfest tournament and again for this one but didn't go with in the end.
Only one/two of a specific ship is something I've tossed around also. And in fact, when you look at some of the very successful setups (PL's 2x Drake, 4x Ishtar etc, or RUR's multi BC, 4x Omen, other stuff..) it is not a huge handicap to do this. I was very happy to see that people finally started realising that complete homogeneity was often a bad thing here because it left you very vulnerable to specific counters and the much vaunted 'rock paper scissors' effect was massively lessened by versatile yet still focused setups.
One thing is for sure...rule changes keep things interesting :) |
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Kil2
Club Bear
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Posted - 2009.02.09 01:32:00 -
[9]
after the undeniably epic results of this tournament and after getting to chat a bit with claw first hand about his theorycrafting, its obvious to me that this tournament, and future ones, couldnt be in better hands.
you guys dont worry, if theres changes they will be awesome, hopefully as awesome as this tournament was.
o/\o ccp claw
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Lady Karma
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Posted - 2009.02.09 02:02:00 -
[10]
They should add stations to the arena then FOOM might do well inside dock range.
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IonHammer
Minmatar
Black Avatar
Lost Sheep Domain
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Posted - 2009.02.09 02:37:00 -
[11]
I would really like to see the arena be spread over several jump gates. Where the players get to move and show some tactics.
Or you could just let the screen go blank and end up in a clone station, I mean how real is that.
still at least its on u-tube cause its middle of the night for me. |
Lady Karma
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Posted - 2009.02.09 02:50:00 -
[12]
Originally by: IonHammer
Or you could just let the screen go blank and end up in a clone station, I mean how real is that.
I have to admit, I may have chuckled a little
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shldrinj
Fix Holding Company
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Posted - 2009.02.09 03:02:00 -
[13]
What about having 2 tournaments a year different teams as the first one and have the 2 champions duke it out ;-) |
Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar
pSyChOTIC CareBears
BrightSpark Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.09 03:21:00 -
[14]
Originally by: shldrinj
What about having 2 tournaments a year different teams as the first one and have the 2 champions duke it out ;-)
"Champions league style" i like it |
Noisrevbus
Caldari
Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2009.02.09 03:48:00 -
[15]
Originally by: IonHammer
I would really like to see the arena be spread over several jump gates. Where the players get to move and show some tactics.
Or you could just let the screen go blank and end up in a clone station, I mean how real is that.
still at least its on u-tube cause its middle of the night for me.
I've been thinking about the same more or less
Having an interconnected cluster of small systems, that would allow some basic tactics involving gates and belts (or other objects) to create somewhat of a roaming arena-constellation. Then throw multiple teams in there at once, and have them duke it out while forcing some (albeit basic) live server conditions and tactics. Would make for some nice survival of the fittest action.
Two major obstacles come to mind:
1. Finding a good balance between hiding and chasing down (running and fighting), since everyone wants to see action.
2. Find a way to stop the "reality-show mentality" of teams forming treaties, and gathering up (a political tournament would be quite sad, so while we want a survival fight, we don't want a "survivor" fight) with multiple teams playing at once.
Looking short term, or with less extensive development in mind
One of the downsides to this tournament was the amount of games affected by disconnects and boundry violations.
Can you expect people to keep appropriate distance with the available ruleset and mechanics? Sure you can! But we could always strive to improve as we have seen many negative game-defining moments due to this system (that AAA setup comes to mind, along with several other really close-drawn matches that ended abruptly only today). The disconnection issue also exist due to that same principle of being totalled for leaving the arena.
So for the next tournament i expect there to be a better boundry system, perhaps by creating physical boundaries (so you can corner people, and tackle them hard!). Since that would allow taking away the totalling mechanic, and have both issues disappear (as you could let a disconnected player just be warped back in, to it's old position or a given location that isn't favourable).
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Scaeva
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.09 04:06:00 -
[16]
I personally really enjoyed watching the tournament this year, even if I didn't get to see the semi's and the final. I loved watching all those faction cruisers get blown up.  An idea that a buddy of mine and I were kicking around would be setting the boundaries of the arena up like POS shields, so instead of having your ship destroyed, you just bounce back into the arena. I see the potential abuse of this, but certainly CCP would still have a GM on hand to deal with anyone who continues doing it to gain some sort of advantage.
Anyway, that's just this Parrot's 2 isk. |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.02.09 09:19:00 -
[17]
i think the rules this time were pretty good, would definitely like a bigger arena tho, and allow warping within it (just make some tools to allow you to maintain lock on something in warp already ccp jeez)
i'd kinda like a change back to when ecm wasn't allowed too, but i don't think it's going to happen |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.09 09:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
i think the rules this time were pretty good, would definitely like a bigger arena tho, and allow warping within it (just make some tools to allow you to maintain lock on something in warp already ccp jeez)
i'd kinda like a change back to when ecm wasn't allowed too, but i don't think it's going to happen
did it really seem that overpowered?
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QwaarJet
Gallente
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.02.09 10:16:00 -
[19]
Edited by: QwaarJet on 09/02/2009 10:19:15
Originally by: CCP Claw
The guns thing was actually something we considered for the fanfest tournament and again for this one but didn't go with in the end.
Only one/two of a specific ship is something I've tossed around also. And in fact, when you look at some of the very successful setups (PL's 2x Drake, 4x Ishtar etc, or RUR's multi BC, 4x Omen, other stuff..) it is not a huge handicap to do this. I was very happy to see that people finally started realising that complete homogeneity was often a bad thing here because it left you very vulnerable to specific counters and the much vaunted 'rock paper scissors' effect was massively lessened by versatile yet still focused setups.
One thing is for sure...rule changes keep things interesting :)
Will you be in charge of the next tournament Calmdown or will it be someone else? Am I still living in a dreamworld about having a player council decide the rules?
This tournament was pretty interesting.....I would say the 4th was still the best overall but this was pretty good too. I would however like to see people involved with the decision making process that have previous tournament experience...maybe that's just me.
Also ITT I see what happens after every tourney, people asking for warping in the arena.....that's bad enough but asking for warping around multiple gate is a joke and is in no way a test of PvP prowess.
The tournament is gladiator combat. You can't run, you can't hide. You need to stay put and fight. It's not meant to represent Normal PvP, it's something more than that. |
TeaDaze
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.02.09 14:28:00 -
[20]
To answer one specific point in the op, it _was_ real PvP, there were players fighting against players. It is a different form of PvP to normal TQ due to the more restrictive framework and you have to adapt tactics.
IMO it is a bloody good thing that it isn't like "real" PvP because in my experience you would have a fleet of 10 ships roaming round for an hour looking for a single target, or a 200 man blob sitting round some large bubbles at a gate or epic capital hotdrops or station undock wars etc, none of which is interesting to the people watching.
Like it or not the whole tournie is a spectator sport and thus the rules have been made to make it entertaining to watch. For example the lack of remote repping was a brilliant call by CCP Claw.
That is not to say it couldn't be better, but it all has to be within the scope of what can be "filmed" and made into something entertaining enough for 12000 people to tune in.
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2009.02.09 16:40:00 -
[21]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
i think the rules this time were pretty good, would definitely like a bigger arena tho, and allow warping within it (just make some tools to allow you to maintain lock on something in warp already ccp jeez)
i'd kinda like a change back to when ecm wasn't allowed too, but i don't think it's going to happen
did it really seem that overpowered?
no of course not, just different, iirc the main logic behind allowing ecm to begin with was to break up logistic circletanks, and if remote armor/shield reps isn't allowed then that's not as much of an issue (still is a bit with cap xfer)
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Markus Reese
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.10 06:46:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Markus Reese on 10/02/2009 06:52:43
I thought that these rules really made it exciting. If I could change one thing, it would be the points for faction vs T2. I mean the fleet stabber was 9 points, while the poorer tank, same speed similar dps Vagabond was 14? I dunno, that one point only for double hp near and 25% more hp seemed to be a broken point.
Edit, as for sentries, the risk comes with snipership tanking it. Now, it may be a handicap, but it can also be an ally, myself, I think a consistent health drain just in general by percent would have done fine if possible. Just a general, drain. Say 20 percent a second and zero health after X time if they are tanking it, or sentries with the timer zero. Advantage of the percent health is that it would keep solid tankers, like the nighthawks and vultures from using it to lose some small frig or something. |
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