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Oh my god, it's full of bugs :)

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2009.02.10 01:25:00 - [61] Originally by: rValdez5987 Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Karlemgne Originally by: MotherMoon no this is good. I'm filling out bug reports left and right. the devs need free bugtesters right now. lets give them what they need. You know its people like you who put perfectly good QA teams out of work. not my fault Nintendo laid me off You got laid off too? You know the funny thing is that I made half of what I made last year, in the month since I got laid off through doing oddjobs and things that I normally have no time for. Makes me wonder why I bothered working under someone else in the first place. seriously, I've made a good amount selling art services. it's actually why I haven't been making stuff eve related at all. still... game testing was such an easy job :(
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2009.02.10 01:27:00 - [62] server down at the moment, but its full of bugs when the first builds come up
Patri Andari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer	Posted - 2009.02.10 03:28:00 - [63] Agility?...errr...Scrum?....err....rush to market?....ummm...Fail?
Illioe	Posted - 2009.02.10 03:48:00 - [64] I would just like to congratulate CCP on having the guns to go ahead and put this up on public testing. Very rarely, if ever, do you see a company release something to the public which is so very clearly a work-in-progress. Kudos, I love it :)
EvilSpork Invicta. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.02.10 04:10:00 - [65] Originally by: Illioe I would just like to congratulate CCP on having the guns to go ahead and put this up on public testing. Very rarely, if ever, do you see a company release something to the public which is so very clearly a work-in-progress. Kudos, I love it :) i have to agree. giving us a taste of the beta and getting feedback for the major changes so they can be refined to what the players want before the devs polish them up is great. it will save the devs a lot of time in the end and result in a better product. A+ ccp!
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2009.02.10 04:58:00 - [66] Originally by: Patri Andari Agility?...errr...Scrum?....err....rush to market?....ummm...Fail? Since when's Sisi a market?
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2009.02.10 05:06:00 - [67] shrug i won't complain until march 31st (they only said march, right?) - putting the gist back into logistics
Taradis Amarr The Imperial Assassins	Posted - 2009.02.10 05:08:00 - [68] Call the exterminator to kill the bugs I like the new fit window it looks cool, skill Q is epic just wish my training wouldn't run into the negative eh well gonna have to get home in the am and tes it again with that work around that was suggested in the other thread. Hopefully Sisi is up when i get in from work.... Nice job on the expansion btw looks promising. Most of the issues i had have been reported already by the others so kudos.
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2009.02.10 05:16:00 - [69] ccp move quick expect within a week this is all resovled
Kurann Amarr Blood Money Inc. Blood Money Cartel	Posted - 2009.02.10 07:05:00 - [70] Originally by: ollobrains2 ccp move quick expect within a week this is all resovled You're kidding, right? Even when working using scrum, do you honestly think they can fix all the bugs we found in the short time SiSi was up? Really? What about the bugs we didn't see (plus all the bugs that internal QA found that no one thought to test)? What are you smoking and where can I get some? p.s. <3 Vanderie
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2009.02.10 07:08:00 - [71] Originally by: Kurann Originally by: ollobrains2 ccp move quick expect within a week this is all resovled You're kidding, right? Even when working using scrum, do you honestly think they can fix all the bugs we found in the short time SiSi was up? Really? What about the bugs we didn't see (plus all the bugs that internal QA found that no one thought to test)? What are you smoking and where can I get some? p.s. <3 Vanderie ccp has 300 developers working on this, each team takes control of its own aspect widget or whatever, expect rapid progress. Happened last time
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.02.10 09:42:00 - [72] Besides, what exactly should the bugreport read ? TITLE : Skill training and skill queue broken DESCRIPTION : Title says it all. Almost nothing really works. ... seriously ? Should I bugreport THAT ? _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2009.02.10 10:42:00 - [73] dloaded fresh premium client + test patch installed loaded Sisi, opened greaphics screen, changed some settings to have reasonable fps, graphics driver crashed ;-) rebooted, logged in again, checked fitting screen, instant hate, logged off. I mean I have to get home to test properly because my SM3 capable (Intel X3100) laptop is having serios problems with EVE.
ViolenTUK Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.02.10 10:53:00 - [74] After i login my screen goes black in the station and i cant do anything. No cant be arsed bug reporting.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:26:00 - [75] I think some of the bugs are intentionally there! Just to scare off some people who just want to play the new content without doing any bughunting. So when those people see all these obvious bugs they will scream and run to the forums and cry 'wah wah wah' and then never log on again. Good, I say! Because those people weren't doing any bughunting anyway. Who remains? Those people serious (or stupid enough) to do some testing and bug-reporting. Pretty clever move, CCP. Really, do you seriously believe that such a huge bug like the market bug would go unnoticed by anyone at CCP? They maybe are not the brightest out there, but they are certainly not such complete failfellas
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:29:00 - [76] Originally by: ViolenTUK After i login my screen goes black in the station and i cant do anything. No cant be arsed bug reporting. Maybe you should read known issues and workaround? Turn off dustfields.
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:31:00 - [77] ill await the next patch to see what comes up
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:40:00 - [78] Originally by: Akor Flandres News reports were rife that a test version of a client had bugs in the first few hours of publication, a month before it was due to go live... there was shock, and horror, EVE was surely dying... Bugs on a test server. Oh Lordy Lord. What did you expect? And they version they're working on is already going to be several iterations ahead of what's on the test server, so obvious errors may have already been dealt with.
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2009.02.10 11:49:00 - [79] Originally by: Vanderie Originally by: Nitalya Originally by: Vanderie Originally by: Nitalya ...eve QA department should be ashamed of themselfs to let bugs like Market not working to get into the test server I bolded the important bits; perhaps you forgot that is why it's a test server, and not the live server? Y'know, to test things? Call me crazy, but I thought it was implied by the name. vv -Vanderie Dont give me that Drivvle... This build is APLHA quialty... not BETA.. and i know the differenct i have worked in QA for a few years... I would have prefferd they delay lauching the new content into BETA.. till the major bugs where squashed you know that is the purpose of ALPHA.. or Internal testing if you will... And there interal QA department sighned off on a build that is very poor qualty rather than do it right..... And i Bolded the important bits for ya Well then go cry in a corner and don't use sisi until it's up to your 'standard'. Meanwhile, we'll be helping CCP test. Furthermore, your e-rage is hilarious. -Vanderie I preaty much think you have not actualy a Idea how QA works and in what cases Tests with many people are usefull and where not. If you have obvious problems with the engine -> fix it before you go into a mass test(remembers me as I started Fear the fist time i endet outside the Map, and had to search for the solution on the Beta Tester Forums, it was a problem with the Sound driver and since the introduction was scripted by time and without the sound events it endet to early and left you outside of the Map, this thig got patched soon after release fortunaly). If Features not working, don¦t put them in a mass Test build -> you allready should know they don¦t work and will only end up with Bug Reports that stat what you allready know. Most of the T3 Parts and Ship models are only halve done or simply dummys for later adjustments, there is not much point in putting them to a mass test on them at this state because there isn¦t a huge amount of things you could do with it or comparing things for ballance. The list goes on, to make it simple mass tests are a option to get data for ballance adjustments or bugs that didn¦t show off during the QA test(since players tend to do others than QA Testers). ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Spluffy Kira	Posted - 2009.02.10 12:39:00 - [80] Originally by: CCP Hypnotic Originally by: Akita T ...Like 98.6 degrees warm inside. That's very special. That better not be Celcious...
Patri Andari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer	Posted - 2009.02.10 12:45:00 - [81] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Patri Andari Agility?...errr...Scrum?....err....rush to market?....ummm...Fail? Since when's Sisi a market? You are obviously correct..sorta. I was referring to the fact that the ultimate release date is less than a month away iirc. If the current state of the expansion is as bugged as reported here it does seem rushed. Perhaps they have time to refine it before D day. I hope so. Hate to have anymore files deleted. Patri A fool usually thinks he is a genius
Heroldyn	Posted - 2009.02.10 12:55:00 - [82] Currently gettings the following issues: - Sound suddenly stops untill i warped into another system. Then stops again after a while. - Moving the new billboard slidly out of camera, so that more than half of it is not within the cameras view, the whole billboard disappears instead of showing the other half that is still in the viewport. - random heavy lag/freeze until after warping into another system - Warping effect is gone - Possibly memmory leak, but cannot really confirm yet.
LordSwift Unus Somnium Inc	Posted - 2009.02.10 14:25:00 - [83] Originally by: Akita T Besides, what exactly should the bugreport read ? TITLE : Skill training and skill queue broken DESCRIPTION : Title says it all. Almost nothing really works. ... seriously ? Should I bugreport THAT ? Maybe it is best you dont do any bug reporting if you report like that. or have that attitude. A Good bug report should include a idiots guide to finding the bug. I will take your bug as a example: Title: Skill Queue Broken when trying to queue up skills Summary: Brief summary of the bug. Not to long just a quick two sentence summary Reproduction Steps: basically you need to do a step by step guide so some stranger could copy these steps and be able to replicate the issue I.E 1. Open skill queue window 2. Add Caldari Cruiser lvl 1 3. Add Caldari Cruiser lvl2 4. Click ok Result: Skills do not train after each other/ Does not save skill plan Few other options on most bug reports to mention how often this happens, or can you replicate this 100% etc. It might sound mundane and stupid but every little thing should be reported like this. Not that hard really.
SecHaul	Posted - 2009.02.10 14:34:00 - [84] I agree with Akita T on this one. Quite frankly I see SISI as an extended UAT where the community assists in finding bugs that you may not be able to find during internal dev / unit testing. SISI has so many obvious bugs that it's simply not ready for meaningful UAT. Sure, it's great to play with the content, but when you click on the skill queue and it simply doesn't work first time, or the attribute remap instantly resets, or weapon grouping doesn't work in space, when wormholes aren't working, when probing is broken, i.e. not only are elements that previously worked not working, but the new content isn't either, what exactly is CCP expecting from us? I know it's a balance between releasing the content so the community can get their hands on it, but releasing it too early detracts from the value that CCP is getting from the UAT. A monkey sitting at a PC could have picked up 90% of the bugs so far while learning how to click a mouse.
LordSwift Unus Somnium Inc	Posted - 2009.02.10 14:42:00 - [85] Edited by: LordSwift on 10/02/2009 14:44:02 Originally by: SecHaul I agree with Akita T on this one. Quite frankly I see SISI as an extended UAT where the community assists in finding bugs that you may not be able to find during internal dev / unit testing. SISI has so many obvious bugs that it's simply not ready for meaningful UAT. Sure, it's great to play with the content, but when you click on the skill queue and it simply doesn't work first time, or the attribute remap instantly resets, or weapon grouping doesn't work in space, when wormholes aren't working, when probing is broken, i.e. not only are elements that previously worked not working, but the new content isn't either, what exactly is CCP expecting from us? I know it's a balance between releasing the content so the community can get their hands on it, but releasing it too early detracts from the value that CCP is getting from the UAT. A monkey sitting at a PC could have picked up 90% of the bugs so far while learning how to click a mouse. But its more efficient to get the playerbase adding to the QA teams manpower to squash these bugs fast. You will always get bugs, even on the Main server. Their are always bugs in retail games. Just unimportant ones that pass a standard of quality and are deemed not worth the resource to fix. I.E Not noticable or does not affect game play
SecHaul	Posted - 2009.02.10 14:51:00 - [86] Originally by: LordSwift But its more efficient to get the playerbase adding to the QA teams manpower to squash these bugs fast. You will always get bugs, even on the Main server. Their are always bugs in retail games. Just unimportant ones that pass a standard of quality and are deemed not worth the resource to fix. I.E Not noticable or does not affect game play How is it more efficient to get the playerbase to identify bugs that are so obvious all you need to do is login an use the feature, and you instantly get hit with several? It's more efficient to get the playerbase to identify bugs when the manpower to find them exceeds the manpower to read through bug reports and forums, and right now I would argue a single person at CCP could identify 90% of the bugs simply by logging onto a PC at CCP and trying to use each feature once. That way the developers get ONE bug report per incident, which is correctly and meaningfully completed, rather than a mass flood of reports which requires someone to collate, summarize and identify the core problem. I'm sorry, but the state at which you should involve a larger beta test assumes the basics are done. And the basics are far from done.
LordSwift Unus Somnium Inc	Posted - 2009.02.10 15:00:00 - [87] Originally by: SecHaul Originally by: LordSwift But its more efficient to get the playerbase adding to the QA teams manpower to squash these bugs fast. You will always get bugs, even on the Main server. Their are always bugs in retail games. Just unimportant ones that pass a standard of quality and are deemed not worth the resource to fix. I.E Not noticable or does not affect game play How is it more efficient to get the playerbase to identify bugs that are so obvious all you need to do is login an use the feature, and you instantly get hit with several? It's more efficient to get the playerbase to identify bugs when the manpower to find them exceeds the manpower to read through bug reports and forums, and right now I would argue a single person at CCP could identify 90% of the bugs simply by logging onto a PC at CCP and trying to use each feature once. That way the developers get ONE bug report per incident, which is correctly and meaningfully completed, rather than a mass flood of reports which requires someone to collate, summarize and identify the core problem. I'm sorry, but the state at which you should involve a larger beta test assumes the basics are done. And the basics are far from done. I understand what you are on about. Its a good point. But one person cannot find all the problems. It is more efficient to get more people bug hunting and get the reports in to ccp to fix. The issue is that we dont have a database to search previously submitted bugs. So we wont send a duplicate in. (Correct me if i am wrong) From previous experience in Games Testing, when we found a bug, we would search a database for a bug report. If their was one in their, we wouldnd report it again, except maybe add notes Join the brown Coats today!!!
Vanderie Amarr Ignatium. Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.02.10 16:37:00 - [88] Originally by: The Djego I preaty much think you have not actualy a Idea how QA works and in what cases Tests with many people are usefull and where not. If you have obvious problems with the engine -> fix it before you go into a mass test(remembers me as I started Fear the fist time i endet outside the Map, and had to search for the solution on the Beta Tester Forums, it was a problem with the Sound driver and since the introduction was scripted by time and without the sound events it endet to early and left you outside of the Map, this thig got patched soon after release fortunaly). If Features not working, don¦t put them in a mass Test build -> you allready should know they don¦t work and will only end up with Bug Reports that stat what you allready know. Most of the T3 Parts and Ship models are only halve done or simply dummys for later adjustments, there is not much point in putting them to a mass test on them at this state because there isn¦t a huge amount of things you could do with it or comparing things for ballance. The list goes on, to make it simple mass tests are a option to get data for ballance adjustments or bugs that didn¦t show off during the QA test(since players tend to do others than QA Testers). Just because the other companies you know don't do it this way doesn't mean CCP has to follow that process. I think that it's great that we are getting to see an early build; if you remember correctly, when the Marauders first hit SiSi they were just barebones recolors of classic models that were thrown together so there would be something. If we get to see all of these bugs as they are, we can easily point them out before they perhaps get covered up with everyone ooohing and aaaahing at the shiny new graphics. CCP probably wanted to get the changes out to us ASAP (like the new fitting screen, etc) so that they would get massive amounts of feedback, which I am sure they are getting right now. TL;DR, CCP do things their own way, and if you don't like it, GTFO and stay off SiSi because you are going to be a help to no one. Originally by: Kurann Originally by: ollobrains2 ccp move quick expect within a week this is all resovled You're kidding, right? Even when working using scrum, do you honestly think they can fix all the bugs we found in the short time SiSi was up? Really? What about the bugs we didn't see (plus all the bugs that internal QA found that no one thought to test)? What are you smoking and where can I get some? p.s. <3 Vanderie <3 -Vanderie ----------
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:45:00 - [89] Originally by: ollobrains2 ill await the next patch to see what comes up /this Although this build resembles a lot the beta ones 6yrs ago. Am a bit disspt about not having seeded all gall ship compts. The client could use a sprint or two still though.
Tilde Ampersand Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:50:00 - [90] I find this build quite easy to bug report. Simply log in, try each new feature three times, failing each time, send in 5 or 6 (or 20) bug reports on the items and log out for the week. 1) Cant test exploring because (a) the market is borked (b) the exploring is borked (c) wormholes are borked 2) Cant test T3 because (a) market is borked (b) fitting is borked (c) modules just arent there beyond basic placeholders 3) Skills are borked 4) Cant test Scene 2 because nearly ALL workarounds require Scene 2 to be OFF ...the list goes on and on... So, my question is, after a day of nearly 1000 people testing this and, maybe 200 of those filing bug reps... why not FIX these core items so we can get on to the REAL testing? I mean seriously, there is nothing to TEST when the key items are broken to the point where further testing is impossible. I find it rather hampering to my own contributions to testing and filing when I buy ships, rigs and fittings to test with and they never, ever show up in my hangar - even with relogging. Filed 2 bug reports on that and get 'unable to reproduce' messages back - it is happening EVERY TIME, in EVERY STATION, how is it these can not be reproduced? :shrug: I'll wait for the next build and, hopefully, I can actually get into some serious testing.

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