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Crixon	Posted - 2004.08.04 19:30:00 - [1] Edited by: Crixon on 04/08/2004 19:31:36 I'm not a rat, and I've never destroyed any player ship in my life. (Well, I have gotten a n00b ganked by Concord for a laugh a long time ago, but that's another story.) I came to Eve looking to get away from all the other elf-and-fairy MMOs for some gritty space RPG and combat action. PvE (e is for environment, or npcs) gets boring after a while, so I can understand why most advanced players go PvP. There are a number of problems of PvP in Eve: 1) There is too little organized PvP 2) Most people stay in Empire space and don't get to experience most of the Eve universe in 0.0 The reasons for this are: 3) Costs of dying in PvP are too high (ship, mods and possibly implant losses) 4) A large number of skillpoints are needed to be effective I really do want to see more PvP in Eve. I know that there are a lot of wanna-be fighter pilots just dying to get rid of their agent-running and roid-hugging disguises and start opening up cans of whup-a$$ on each other. I have a few general suggestions to do this, and I invite everyone to contribute their feedback as to these possible solutions: A) Reduce the cost of dying in PvP. - increase insurance payout for ship losses in corp wars - create insurance policies to cover implants B) Make PvP more worthwhile as a viable career alternative. - reduce ship module destruction rate to 30% - create generic "bounties" on players killed in non-secure space based on the victims' statistics (see D.) C) Make it easier to PvP. - Increase the frequency of player location services through agents if that player is in a corp you are at war with - Change automatic warp on logoff to include a delay of 60 seconds, the first 30 of which the ship cannot be locked D) Create PvP statistics. - Everyone loves stats, especially their own. Create stats available through bios that include kills (and times killed) in the last week - Create a page on in-game browser that lists the Top 10 players with most kills in the past week/month Career miners and agent-runners can keep doing their thing. Lots of us want to get into PvP but the cost barrier is too high. More players in PvP will make it more fun for everyone.
Crixon	Posted - 2004.08.04 19:30:00 - [2] Edited by: Crixon on 04/08/2004 19:31:36 I'm not a rat, and I've never destroyed any player ship in my life. (Well, I have gotten a n00b ganked by Concord for a laugh a long time ago, but that's another story.) I came to Eve looking to get away from all the other elf-and-fairy MMOs for some gritty space RPG and combat action. PvE (e is for environment, or npcs) gets boring after a while, so I can understand why most advanced players go PvP. There are a number of problems of PvP in Eve: 1) There is too little organized PvP 2) Most people stay in Empire space and don't get to experience most of the Eve universe in 0.0 The reasons for this are: 3) Costs of dying in PvP are too high (ship, mods and possibly implant losses) 4) A large number of skillpoints are needed to be effective I really do want to see more PvP in Eve. I know that there are a lot of wanna-be fighter pilots just dying to get rid of their agent-running and roid-hugging disguises and start opening up cans of whup-a$$ on each other. I have a few general suggestions to do this, and I invite everyone to contribute their feedback as to these possible solutions: A) Reduce the cost of dying in PvP. - increase insurance payout for ship losses in corp wars - create insurance policies to cover implants B) Make PvP more worthwhile as a viable career alternative. - reduce ship module destruction rate to 30% - create generic "bounties" on players killed in non-secure space based on the victims' statistics (see D.) C) Make it easier to PvP. - Increase the frequency of player location services through agents if that player is in a corp you are at war with - Change automatic warp on logoff to include a delay of 60 seconds, the first 30 of which the ship cannot be locked D) Create PvP statistics. - Everyone loves stats, especially their own. Create stats available through bios that include kills (and times killed) in the last week - Create a page on in-game browser that lists the Top 10 players with most kills in the past week/month Career miners and agent-runners can keep doing their thing. Lots of us want to get into PvP but the cost barrier is too high. More players in PvP will make it more fun for everyone.
Nomeshta	Posted - 2004.08.04 19:33:00 - [3] Quote: 3) Costs of dying in PvP are too high (ship, mods and possibly implant losses) 4) A large number of skillpoints are needed to be effective - Caution: Ninja Fingers WTB: Implants
Nomeshta	Posted - 2004.08.04 19:33:00 - [4] Quote: 3) Costs of dying in PvP are too high (ship, mods and possibly implant losses) 4) A large number of skillpoints are needed to be effective - Caution: Ninja Fingers WTB: Implants
Viceroy	Posted - 2004.08.04 19:33:00 - [5] Edited by: Viceroy on 04/08/2004 19:35:30 Those are by far the worst ideas i've ever heard. You obviously have no experience what-so-ever, all of your post is wrong. Simply put: No. -
Viceroy	Posted - 2004.08.04 19:33:00 - [6] Edited by: Viceroy on 04/08/2004 19:35:30 Those are by far the worst ideas i've ever heard. You obviously have no experience what-so-ever, all of your post is wrong. Simply put: No. -
Sun Wu	Posted - 2004.08.04 19:36:00 - [7] Sarcasm doesn't suit you Crixon. ________________________________
Sun Wu	Posted - 2004.08.04 19:36:00 - [8] Sarcasm doesn't suit you Crixon. ________________________________
olyyy	Posted - 2004.08.04 19:42:00 - [9] Cost for pvping is very low atm... I rmemeber a time with no 40% insurrance whenu lost your ship and insurrance duration being extremly shorter... And tbh, isk need to go somewhere ? People can't just get richer and richer without taking any risk ? When you're doing pvp u must be ready to loose some assets. as for the people staying in empire space... Well, some people make 2M isk a day in Empire space while some make 150M isk in 0.0. People should feel happy of current situation that is pretty nice with a 3 months insurrance or whatever. As for the number of sp, I remember pvping in eve with 150k sp in a kestrel, I don't understand why people couldn't do the same. some people have a mentality which can be resumed to the "I need the biggest ship to do pvp." which is untrue. IMO the main barrier to pvp is the security hit in 0.1 to 0.4 space which is preventing people to shoot at each others just because afterwards their security status is ****** forever (I don't expect a noob with 150k sp to hunt npc BSs to raise his security status). And also the sentry guns that any good pirate with a few mates in BS can tank to gank anybody while the poor noob in kestrel or cruiser get instaganked. Galaga (Galaxian - XIF corp) And yes, Olyyy is on our KOS list so she enjoys stirring the "flames" ( 2004.05.25 )
olyyy	Posted - 2004.08.04 19:42:00 - [10] Cost for pvping is very low atm... I rmemeber a time with no 40% insurrance whenu lost your ship and insurrance duration being extremly shorter... And tbh, isk need to go somewhere ? People can't just get richer and richer without taking any risk ? When you're doing pvp u must be ready to loose some assets. as for the people staying in empire space... Well, some people make 2M isk a day in Empire space while some make 150M isk in 0.0. People should feel happy of current situation that is pretty nice with a 3 months insurrance or whatever. As for the number of sp, I remember pvping in eve with 150k sp in a kestrel, I don't understand why people couldn't do the same. some people have a mentality which can be resumed to the "I need the biggest ship to do pvp." which is untrue. IMO the main barrier to pvp is the security hit in 0.1 to 0.4 space which is preventing people to shoot at each others just because afterwards their security status is ****** forever (I don't expect a noob with 150k sp to hunt npc BSs to raise his security status). And also the sentry guns that any good pirate with a few mates in BS can tank to gank anybody while the poor noob in kestrel or cruiser get instaganked. Galaga (Galaxian - XIF corp) And yes, Olyyy is on our KOS list so she enjoys stirring the "flames" ( 2004.05.25 )
cashman	Posted - 2004.08.04 19:56:00 - [11] Please tell me why people, who dont want to, have to leave empire and explore deep space 0.0? ____________________________________ »»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
cashman	Posted - 2004.08.04 19:56:00 - [12] Please tell me why people, who dont want to, have to leave empire and explore deep space 0.0? ____________________________________ »»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
HooYah	Posted - 2004.08.04 20:26:00 - [13] Originally by: Crixon There are a number of problems of PvP in Eve: 1) There is too little organized PvP 2) Most people stay in Empire space and don't get to experience most of the Eve universe in 0.0 The reasons for this are: 3) Costs of dying in PvP are too high (ship, mods and possibly implant losses) 4) A large number of skillpoints are needed to be effective [/quote I disagree I explore 0.0 space on a regular basis and I dont have all that many skill points my char is only a month old. But I have the right skills....I have never actually gotten killed in 0.0 space (by players anyway), I get beat on in .3 an .4 space on a regular basis though. And the costs of PVP arent all that bad, I lose my cruiser, I have to spend a couple hours ratting or mining to make enough to insure it and equip it again....then I get right back to losing another cruiser.
HooYah	Posted - 2004.08.04 20:26:00 - [14] Originally by: Crixon There are a number of problems of PvP in Eve: 1) There is too little organized PvP 2) Most people stay in Empire space and don't get to experience most of the Eve universe in 0.0 The reasons for this are: 3) Costs of dying in PvP are too high (ship, mods and possibly implant losses) 4) A large number of skillpoints are needed to be effective [/quote I disagree I explore 0.0 space on a regular basis and I dont have all that many skill points my char is only a month old. But I have the right skills....I have never actually gotten killed in 0.0 space (by players anyway), I get beat on in .3 an .4 space on a regular basis though. And the costs of PVP arent all that bad, I lose my cruiser, I have to spend a couple hours ratting or mining to make enough to insure it and equip it again....then I get right back to losing another cruiser.
Crixon	Posted - 2004.08.04 20:27:00 - [15] For those who are content to reply with rebuttals without giving specific arguments or justifications, we'll be content to ignore them. To others who disagree and explain why they think I'm wrong, I'm happy to have a discussion. This isn't a post to help out the gank-rats. This is a suggestion to encourage more people to participate in PvP, who probably would like to, but find it cost prohibitive. I'd rather see more corp wars going on. Olyyy, t'd be great to see frigates get some help to be a factor in fleet battles, possibly in EW. You'd be able to make a big difference in battle, although you couldn't do much damage vs. larger ships and still be vulnerable to being taken out by drones. Cashman, many people don't want to leave Empire because of the reasons I listed above. My ideas are suggestions to open up more of the universe to players, instead of giving up rare ores to pc rats and mega corps.
Crixon	Posted - 2004.08.04 20:27:00 - [16] For those who are content to reply with rebuttals without giving specific arguments or justifications, we'll be content to ignore them. To others who disagree and explain why they think I'm wrong, I'm happy to have a discussion. This isn't a post to help out the gank-rats. This is a suggestion to encourage more people to participate in PvP, who probably would like to, but find it cost prohibitive. I'd rather see more corp wars going on. Olyyy, t'd be great to see frigates get some help to be a factor in fleet battles, possibly in EW. You'd be able to make a big difference in battle, although you couldn't do much damage vs. larger ships and still be vulnerable to being taken out by drones. Cashman, many people don't want to leave Empire because of the reasons I listed above. My ideas are suggestions to open up more of the universe to players, instead of giving up rare ores to pc rats and mega corps.
Em Solace	Posted - 2004.08.04 20:32:00 - [17] Alternative Solution: - Buy Platinum Insurance - Declare war on a corporation that has operations routinely in places you know of - SHOOT THEM Em from out of the void ... ... a single black ship
Em Solace	Posted - 2004.08.04 20:32:00 - [18] Alternative Solution: - Buy Platinum Insurance - Declare war on a corporation that has operations routinely in places you know of - SHOOT THEM Em from out of the void ... ... a single black ship
Balthial Ashaere	Posted - 2004.08.04 20:50:00 - [19] Edited by: Balthial Ashaere on 04/08/2004 20:55:18 Edited by: Balthial Ashaere on 04/08/2004 20:52:47 Crixon... Good idea for the most part, and your dead-on as to why most PVP is not viable. I for one wouldn't mind getting into PVP properly, but there's no way in hell I'm going to do it when I'll lose my ship, implants, clone, and the boatload of ISK that translates to, which in turn translates into wasted time, which in turn means I've paid for nothing, or had my money stolen by another player. I don't know about you, but I'm just NOT down with that logic string, and I won't be doing PVP until I know I won't lose any of my expended effort, or the money I used to pay for the time I used to expend said effort. I just can't justify that kind of risk, which is a shame really, because I'd love to get into real combat. I can't bring myself to throw my time and money away like it was nothing. Edit: I've tried recruiting my friends into this game, but all of them told me to get lost when I told them they lsoe everything when they die, save for insurance payouts. No one really likes wasting their time, and neither do I. CCP could get loads more players involved in EVE if the costs of death weren't so prohibitively high. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Convergent Corporation - Infinite Opportunities; One Future!" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Convergent Mining Division - Refining The Foundation Of The Future!" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Balthial Ashaere	Posted - 2004.08.04 20:50:00 - [20] Edited by: Balthial Ashaere on 04/08/2004 20:55:18 Edited by: Balthial Ashaere on 04/08/2004 20:52:47 Crixon... Good idea for the most part, and your dead-on as to why most PVP is not viable. I for one wouldn't mind getting into PVP properly, but there's no way in hell I'm going to do it when I'll lose my ship, implants, clone, and the boatload of ISK that translates to, which in turn translates into wasted time, which in turn means I've paid for nothing, or had my money stolen by another player. I don't know about you, but I'm just NOT down with that logic string, and I won't be doing PVP until I know I won't lose any of my expended effort, or the money I used to pay for the time I used to expend said effort. I just can't justify that kind of risk, which is a shame really, because I'd love to get into real combat. I can't bring myself to throw my time and money away like it was nothing. Edit: I've tried recruiting my friends into this game, but all of them told me to get lost when I told them they lsoe everything when they die, save for insurance payouts. No one really likes wasting their time, and neither do I. CCP could get loads more players involved in EVE if the costs of death weren't so prohibitively high. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Convergent Corporation - Infinite Opportunities; One Future!" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Convergent Mining Division - Refining The Foundation Of The Future!" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attrael	Posted - 2004.08.04 21:01:00 - [21] Death shouldn't be possible. Pods need to be indestructable. And all weapons need to be changed to fire only harmless styrofoam NERF balls when targeting players. And the Eve soundtrack needs to be permanently changed to 'The Teletubies Greatest Hits Sung By Barney and Friends'. And the pilots in mOo need to get laid.
Attrael	Posted - 2004.08.04 21:01:00 - [22] Death shouldn't be possible. Pods need to be indestructable. And all weapons need to be changed to fire only harmless styrofoam NERF balls when targeting players. And the Eve soundtrack needs to be permanently changed to 'The Teletubies Greatest Hits Sung By Barney and Friends'. And the pilots in mOo need to get laid.
Raeger	Posted - 2004.08.04 21:03:00 - [23] I blame the layout of the starmap. If high sec was on the outside and 0.0 was in the centre maybe more people would be encrouraged too take shorter routes through the middle than travel around the outside... Too late for something like that now though I suppose, as amusing as it would be too invert the security status without warning. Just a thought.
Raeger	Posted - 2004.08.04 21:03:00 - [24] I blame the layout of the starmap. If high sec was on the outside and 0.0 was in the centre maybe more people would be encrouraged too take shorter routes through the middle than travel around the outside... Too late for something like that now though I suppose, as amusing as it would be too invert the security status without warning. Just a thought.
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.08.04 21:07:00 - [25] Originally by: Crixon Edited by: Crixon on 04/08/2004 19:31:36 I'm not a rat, and I've never destroyed any player ship in my life. (Well, I have gotten a n00b ganked by Concord for a laugh a long time ago, but that's another story.) <snip> To me that looks like your post translates to: I really don't know anything about the topic at hand, but will give you all these nice ideas that completely change the fundamentals of PvP in this game around, to turn this game into QIS (Quake in Space). ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.08.04 21:07:00 - [26] Originally by: Crixon Edited by: Crixon on 04/08/2004 19:31:36 I'm not a rat, and I've never destroyed any player ship in my life. (Well, I have gotten a n00b ganked by Concord for a laugh a long time ago, but that's another story.) <snip> To me that looks like your post translates to: I really don't know anything about the topic at hand, but will give you all these nice ideas that completely change the fundamentals of PvP in this game around, to turn this game into QIS (Quake in Space). ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2004.08.04 21:07:00 - [27] Sorry but i have to disagree, and even when the reasons for that have been discussed here countless times already i'll give em again: 1. Too little organised pvp. Well, there IS organised pvp galore. What do you think an alliance war is exactly ? 2. Not my fault, they should go out more and not whine about how hard it is when it isnt at all. 3. Cost of dying in a tier 2 BS: BS cost: 70-80 mill (mineral cost), insurance 100%: 30 mill: total: 110 mill Insurance payout: 107 million. Lost: 3 + mods, lets say 25 million flying with cheaper stock mods that are self-produced. 25 million is made within one day in you backup BS hunting NPC's. You shouldnt use +3 implants on your fighting cahracter unless you can take the loss. 4. Anyone with 3mill and up can pvp well enough to make a difference. The most important guys may well be the opnes in frigs holding the enemy down. Now setlle down and think about this. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2004.08.04 21:07:00 - [28] Sorry but i have to disagree, and even when the reasons for that have been discussed here countless times already i'll give em again: 1. Too little organised pvp. Well, there IS organised pvp galore. What do you think an alliance war is exactly ? 2. Not my fault, they should go out more and not whine about how hard it is when it isnt at all. 3. Cost of dying in a tier 2 BS: BS cost: 70-80 mill (mineral cost), insurance 100%: 30 mill: total: 110 mill Insurance payout: 107 million. Lost: 3 + mods, lets say 25 million flying with cheaper stock mods that are self-produced. 25 million is made within one day in you backup BS hunting NPC's. You shouldnt use +3 implants on your fighting cahracter unless you can take the loss. 4. Anyone with 3mill and up can pvp well enough to make a difference. The most important guys may well be the opnes in frigs holding the enemy down. Now setlle down and think about this. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Reptar	Posted - 2004.08.04 21:08:00 - [29] Originally by: Crixon Edited by: Crixon on 04/08/2004 19:31:36 I'm not a rat, and I've never destroyed any player ship in my life. think its fine atm but like the stats idea
Reptar	Posted - 2004.08.04 21:08:00 - [30] Originally by: Crixon Edited by: Crixon on 04/08/2004 19:31:36 I'm not a rat, and I've never destroyed any player ship in my life. think its fine atm but like the stats idea

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