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Korerin Mayul
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Posted - 2009.02.10 15:24:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Korerin Mayul on 10/02/2009 15:35:51
Edited by: Korerin Mayul on 10/02/2009 15:35:39
Edited by: Korerin Mayul on 10/02/2009 15:35:21
a complaint about eve is the hands-off pioleting; its impractical to introduce direct ship controll without instancing on a MMO of this scale... sooo how about animations:
- small ships travelling fast asked to do a 180 turn could execute a 'turn and burn' animation.
- Small ships asked to slow down from a high speed should have a slightley wobbley breaking path - one of the tralers from LOOOONG ago features this behavour
- Small ships travelling slow and close to large ships should automatically adjust their cource to follow the collision parimiter of the larger ship - re 'empire strikes back' final space battle
- Large ships (BC and above) when asked to impliment a 180 turn could do a similar 'turn and burn' but slower and more 'big'!
BUT WAIT, theres more;
how about ship emotes to trigger specific pathing animations - /roll /loop stuff like that; again only really applicable to small ships, if your in somthing bigger then a BC then you should be thankfull for your good fortune! :P
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Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.02.10 16:33:00 -
[2]
If this was a real space navy combat rolling would be a viable option any any ship including larger onces, Most ships in eve would go for a broadside and try to expose the most heavily shielded/armored part of the ship twoards the enemy, this would invovle rolling.
Overall waste of developer resources for minimal impact on immersion when you can have conversation with the npc instead and possibly see thier face. |
Korerin Mayul
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Posted - 2009.02.11 21:07:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Nova Fox
Overall waste of developer resources for minimal impact on immersion when you can have conversation with the npc instead and possibly see thier face.
its not really a social thing; its for posing in the ship, and celebrating a kill etc etc... it would help with emersion.
also, it would require negladgable developer time, just some technical artists to put the animation paths together... i doubt they have much else to do :P
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NightF0x
Gallente
Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.02.11 21:29:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Korerin Mayul
Originally by: Nova Fox
Overall waste of developer resources for minimal impact on immersion when you can have conversation with the npc instead and possibly see thier face.
its not really a social thing; its for posing in the ship, and celebrating a kill etc etc... it would help with emersion.
also, it would require negladgable developer time, just some technical artists to put the animation paths together... i doubt they have much else to do :P
You claim that it would help with immersion...please explain how. I doubt that you know how to program python so I wouldn't suggest that an addition is minimal development time. Every ship on grid has to know exactly where your ship is during the entire emote, and if they are firing then they have to do calculations on your barrel roll. Not something that I would like to calculate.
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Korerin Mayul
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Posted - 2009.02.11 21:37:00 -
[5]
Originally by: NightF0x
Originally by: Korerin Mayul
Originally by: Nova Fox
Overall waste of developer resources for minimal impact on immersion when you can have conversation with the npc instead and possibly see thier face.
its not really a social thing; its for posing in the ship, and celebrating a kill etc etc... it would help with emersion.
also, it would require negladgable developer time, just some technical artists to put the animation paths together... i doubt they have much else to do :P
You claim that it would help with immersion...please explain how. I doubt that you know how to program python so I wouldn't suggest that an addition is minimal development time. Every ship on grid has to know exactly where your ship is during the entire emote, and if they are firing then they have to do calculations on your barrel roll. Not something that I would like to calculate.
well first off, i can program python and have spent enough time round game programmers for them to try and explane that paradigm to me.
the emote wouldent require a change in ship position: the collision envalopes for ships are *much* larger then the ship itself and a clever animator could easly manipulate the model insde the collision envalpope...
... saying that, turrents may be a problem
and, it helps with emersion as it removes another barrier between 'nice looking picture of a spaceship' and 'holey $^&ú im IN star-wars!!11!11oneoneeleven*subscribe**roll caldari**win*' :P
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NightF0x
Gallente
Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.02.11 21:50:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Korerin Mayul
Originally by: NightF0x
Originally by: Korerin Mayul
Originally by: Nova Fox
Overall waste of developer resources for minimal impact on immersion when you can have conversation with the npc instead and possibly see thier face.
its not really a social thing; its for posing in the ship, and celebrating a kill etc etc... it would help with emersion.
also, it would require negladgable developer time, just some technical artists to put the animation paths together... i doubt they have much else to do :P
You claim that it would help with immersion...please explain how. I doubt that you know how to program python so I wouldn't suggest that an addition is minimal development time. Every ship on grid has to know exactly where your ship is during the entire emote, and if they are firing then they have to do calculations on your barrel roll. Not something that I would like to calculate.
well first off, i can program python and have spent enough time round game programmers for them to try and explane that paradigm to me.
the emote wouldent require a change in ship position: the collision envalopes for ships are *much* larger then the ship itself and a clever animator could easly manipulate the model insde the collision envalpope...
... saying that, turrents may be a problem
and, it helps with emersion as it removes another barrier between 'nice looking picture of a spaceship' and 'holey $^&ú im IN star-wars!!11!11oneoneeleven*subscribe**roll caldari**win*' :P
not everyone is an emo teenager that needs emotes like every other game. Sorry but emotes on a space ship is a lame attempt at copying every other MMO.
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Silva Riley
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Posted - 2009.02.11 21:58:00 -
[7]
I may not be a emo teenager, but I want more eyecandy. Make it optional for the "EVE has sound? EVE has color? EVE has textures?" faction, if you like.
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Typhado3
Minmatar
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2009.02.12 00:34:00 -
[8]
if I can get in the middle of a blob of capitals in my naglfar and do a barrel roll this feature will have payed for itself.
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls |
Thunderbird Anthares
BLACK BARONS
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.02.12 06:15:00 -
[9]
/signed
because i REALLY love this crap and im jealous of fighters
and i also fly assault frigs really often
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When you get to the end of your journey,everything that really matters is the journey itself. |
Thunderbird Anthares
BLACK BARONS
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.02.12 06:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Typhado3
if I can get in the middle of a blob of capitals in my naglfar and do a barrel roll this feature will have payed for itself.
aww c`mon,dreads barely even have the power to move forward and turn 1 degree per a solar year,how could they possibly have the power do do a barrel roll with enough power to even shove other capitals few meters aside 
P.S.: dont be morons guys,this would be cool
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When you get to the end of your journey,everything that really matters is the journey itself. |
Korerin Mayul
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Posted - 2009.02.12 06:20:00 -
[11]
Originally by: NightF0x
Originally by: Korerin Mayul
Originally by: NightF0x
Originally by: Korerin Mayul
its not really a social thing; its for posing in the ship, and celebrating a kill etc etc... it would help with emersion.
also, it would require negladgable developer time, just some technical artists to put the animation paths together... i doubt they have much else to do :P
You claim that it would help with immersion...please explain how. I doubt that you know how to program python so I wouldn't suggest that an addition is minimal development time. Every ship on grid has to know exactly where your ship is during the entire emote, and if they are firing then they have to do calculations on your barrel roll. Not something that I would like to calculate.
well first off, i can program python and have spent enough time round game programmers for them to try and explane that paradigm to me.
the emote wouldent require a change in ship position: the collision envalopes for ships are *much* larger then the ship itself and a clever animator could easly manipulate the model insde the collision envalpope...
... saying that, turrents may be a problem
and, it helps with emersion as it removes another barrier between 'nice looking picture of a spaceship' and 'holey $^&ú im IN star-wars!!11!11oneoneeleven*subscribe**roll caldari**win*' :P
not everyone is an emo teenager that needs emotes like every other game. Sorry but emotes on a space ship is a lame attempt at copying every other MMO.
'emote' may not be the right word for this, though technically an emote is a user-triggered animation with no emmidate purpose... to streighten things out; im not looking for a /weep which causes your tormenter to stop and shed a single tear of sadness about why all the other frigs have t2 varients and he is all alone, im asking for, effectivally improvments to visual impact of the really rather static ship pathing system.
and if anyone says that eve *isnt* about eye-candy, they are wrong!
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Mithfindel
Gallente
Zenko Group
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Posted - 2009.02.12 07:13:00 -
[12]
Need to be careful, though. If I remember correctly, some other MMO (err, Earth & Beyond) had emotes, to the degree where they did trademark a few. As such, unless CCP makes a deal with the owners of the E&B IP, they can't use /roll. (Fighters can roll, since it's an animation, not an emote - also it's possible to use the mouse-click interface and make your ship to do a "vertical roll" by varying the course around the "up" axis, since the "keel" of the ship is always kept "down".)
But back to IP & lawyer-stuff: Sounds like a sexual minority affair, but that's how I've heard things go.
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Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.02.12 11:05:00 -
[13]
Thats the system wide telemetry being set by the ships computers based on the majority of the planets orbits giving you a relative up and down thus why your ship 'keel' which is improper word here since the spine would be more likely centered around the reactor is always pointed down.
First off reterm the catch word here, emotes means to apply an emotion usually. Ships dont have feelings most of the time.
Stunts or Manuvers would be more appropiate here.
Many of what you are suggesting would require a 'flight path' as well so your going to have to account for the 'what if I run into something.' or better yet 'should this flight manuver avoid collison?' Also now toss in 'my ship is too heavy would it look right if i still pulled this off? (amarr for example)' or 'my ship is to light would it look right if I pulled this off as well?.'
Then your going have to argue various factors like "why should we limit this to smaller ships?" "How many manuvers do we want?" "How much impact its going to have vs the time it takes to develop this idea?" "would these moves make any sense?" "will it look cool?" "will it be eve still?" "how are players going to receive the idea?" "will this screw with npcs?" "will this be exploitable?" "will this give players to much advantages in pvp?" "how will the role players eat this up?" "how will the math/physics geeks would eat this up" ect ect.
But as far as impact vs implimentation this is a little iffy on the graph, impact would be medium to low, it adds some value to eve but overall doesnt attribute to game play as your idea is, toss in game play factors would increase its value, such as making your ship harder to hit or increasing your tracking ability just because you positioned better. Implimtation WILL NOT be that simple if your wondering why look at the questions above and try to program codes for all of it.
Im no programmer but a project like this would probably take the following resources in positions
1-2 programers
.5 producer/manager
.5 qa
1 artist
the 0.5 factor applies possible oversite of several minor projects combined.
I nominate it should add game play value in tactical avoidance and positioning to null out various factors of combat however that would imply more combat depth such as weak spots on ships (larger ship factor) and tracking deviances.
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Typhado3
Minmatar
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2009.02.12 11:20:00 -
[14]
from what I've heard the physics engine would need to be reworked for this to be useful.
will test out something when eve comes back on online.
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls |
MacMasters
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Posted - 2009.02.12 11:43:00 -
[15]
its starting to sound like some unfunny joke 
"how many programmers does it take to make eyecandy?"
Originally by: Nova Fox
1-2 programers
.5 producer/manager
.5 qa
1 artist
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Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.02.12 12:59:00 -
[16]
I basing this on the 11 teams currently working on currenct expansion.
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Korerin Mayul
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Posted - 2009.02.12 13:05:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Nova Fox
Stunts or Manuvers would be more appropiate here.
Many of what you are suggesting would require a 'flight path' as well so your going to have to account for the 'what if I run into something.' or better yet 'should this flight manuver avoid collison?' Also now toss in 'my ship is too heavy would it look right if i still pulled this off? (amarr for example)' or 'my ship is to light would it look right if I pulled this off as well?.'
Then your going have to argue various factors like "why should we limit this to smaller ships?" "How many manuvers do we want?" "How much impact its going to have vs the time it takes to develop this idea?" "would these moves make any sense?" "will it look cool?" "will it be eve still?" "how are players going to receive the idea?" "will this screw with npcs?" "will this be exploitable?" "will this give players to much advantages in pvp?" "how will the role players eat this up?" "how will the math/physics geeks would eat this up" ect ect.
*snip*
stunts / manouvers is a better name for it!
'what if I run into something.' - the current collision system, though a little bit broken should work fine... the ship would clip into the colission range then 'bounce' out - its not perfect, but it works
i dont think ships being too hevy / light needs to matter too much, its the class of ship where the lines should be drawn.
"why should we limit this to smaller ships?" - we shouldent; unless theres a 'manouver' for large ships... its physically unlikley!
i dont think exploitablity is an issue at all, the system currently exists your just mucking about with the model, this shouldent have to muck with collision.
i think most of the exceptions raised in the middle paragraph hang on the 'it would look cool' asthetic; physics geeks can accept asymmetric thrust, enertia in space and wings on spaceships so this will go fine, the rollplayers will love it, its a way to imply expression into space.
i agree that the direct trade off between effort required and effect on the gameplay is negladgable, but saying that, this is about beautifying the interaction in space - a step away from the artifical moovments that we have at the moment...
Eve, more then any other mmo is very beautiful visually, we should let the rather ridged gameplay interact with this beauty in a more organic manner...
which is what im after really
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