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Cho Boom
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Posted - 2009.02.10 21:53:00 -
[1]
So i had some isk to burn and decided to go throw away a few ships in FW,grabbed a stealth bomber (nemesis) and headed of out.
First 1v1 , im sat cloaked at a gate and a rifer warps in , he sits there for a while so i guess hes camping looking for a fight.
Took my time , checked the stats:
Hes got 20% damage resistance vs my thermal cruise missiles.35% on armor but im guesing its going to be shield tanked.
Hes got a larger sig radius than my explosion radius.
Hes Sat still.
Okay so my missile skills suck ,, ive got a base volly damage of 1600 (yeah v low i know)
Even so 1600 - 20% = dead rifter..
So i turn on my passive targeter and let lose a volly, expecting to hit him for around 800ish once he spots me and hits MWD.
about 2 seconds before the missiles hit i turn on my target painter to make sure his sig radius realy is bigger than the explosion and.......
My missiles hit just as hes turning the ship around.. For a whopping 141 dmg in total.
Thats just under 92% damage reduction 
I threw away my frigate to make sure, got of 4 volleys before poping and sure enough not a single one over 150 dmg.
141 damage with an 18 second refire rate,, thats lower DPS than a velator !! 
So heres my question:
Where is all that damage reduction coming from ? and is there anything i can do about it ?
Only thing i can think of is explosion velocity~ Does it realy make that big a diference and is there anything that can be done about it other than webbers ?
Anyone have a link to the math behind exp velocity? i cant seem find one.
PS: im asking about missile mechanics not ship types ~ so no raven trolling thanks o/
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.10 22:01:00 -
[2]
Welcome to caldari space , I hope you enjoy your overnerfed cruise missile.
Go and check out our missile topic in assembly hall.
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Wannabehero
Absolutely No Retreat
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Posted - 2009.02.10 22:09:00 -
[3]
Missile Damage reduction formula
Stealth bombers are in a very sorry state currently |
Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
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Posted - 2009.02.10 22:09:00 -
[4]
Missiles suck vs anything smaller
Missiles suck vs anything same-sized and moving
Missiles are good vs afk same-sized ships
Missiles are good vs bigger targets. |
VoiceInTheDesert
Diplomatic Disruption
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2009.02.10 22:27:00 -
[5]
As much as missile suck, a lot of offensive weaponry does right now, so it's not a unique problem.
Blasters require close range but are unable to get into that range with the web nerf and unable to track even if they do because of the same web nerf.
Autocannons have been fighting in falloff for forever and a day at this point.
And you have told the woes of missiles so I will not restate them.
Basically the FOTM weapon is lasers and with good reason. They have good tracking, good optimals, instant crystal switch and high dps.
But I guess taking up a little more cap balances it all out, amirite?
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Eka Lawrencia
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.10 22:54:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Eka Lawrencia on 10/02/2009 22:56:26
 Originally by: Cho Boom
Where is all that damage reduction coming from ?
Sucky skills, sucky tactics, sucky fittings. Possibly the inability to read damage notifications. |
Endless Subversion
The Accursed
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:35:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Endless Subversion on 10/02/2009 23:36:38
Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert
Laser Whining
But I guess taking up a little more cap balances it all out, amirite?
You mean more fitting, more cap, worst of all close range weapon tracking and only two close range variants? Not to mention EM/Therm only? Oh and you're ignnoring the ship hulls that these are attached to.
Lasers didn't get buffed last patch, webs got nerfed. You may be trying to spin that as an indirect buff to lasers, but it isn't.
I recently read someone talking about how minmatar ships with bonuses to lasers would be pure win.
I'm not sure I agree, but he makes a very good. The ship layouts and bonuses matter just as much as the dmg system.
*Edit* And stealth bombers used to really, really suck. Then cruise missile dmg versus smaller targets took a hit. Now they suck even more. They're like the pilgrim, stop screwing your gang by flying them and bring something that actually contributes until they get a buff. |
Mire Stoude
Cash Money Brothers
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:43:00 -
[8]
I single volley'ed a velator standing still on a gate a few days ago... true story. Embrace SB's new anti-rookie ship role. |
P'uck
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Posted - 2009.02.11 01:00:00 -
[9]
Edited by: P''uck on 11/02/2009 01:00:39
As far as I understand it, explosion velocity plays a big role here:
SBs might get an explosion radius reduction, but the blast is still cruise-missile-ass-slow. I am not sure but it somewhat feels as if explosion velocity got reduced with QR or the formula got changed. You needed a lot more "weeeeeee" to properly outrun the blast from stealthbombers.
Nowadays frigs at base speed arent really bothered by cruise missile explosions.
Long story short: the signature radius is NOT the problem, because that one is almost frigsize on a stealthbomber. edit: and that's why I'd never use a TP on an SB  |
Joss Sparq
Caldari
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.11 04:40:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Endless Subversion
I recently read someone talking about how minmatar ships with bonuses to lasers would be pure win.
And completely ridiculous. While I admit that Tech III plays the role of a wild card right now, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the impossible.
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Burn Mac
Minmatar
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.02.11 08:48:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mire Stoude
I single volley'ed a velator standing still on a gate a few days ago... true story. Embrace SB's new anti-rookie ship role.
Sadly a good fitted velator will take out a SB no problem so it fails even at that role. |
retro mike
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Posted - 2009.02.11 09:53:00 -
[12]
Fact of the matter is that SB's have been absolutely crippled by the missile nerf. I understood that it was only the explosion velocity that ccp tinkered around with but if this is the case why is its volley damage so poor against near-stationary targets? |
Fuazzole
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Posted - 2009.02.11 11:11:00 -
[13]
on the test server with..
Rigor II
Flare II
5% exp vel
-5% exp radius
Strong Crash
Presision Cruise
Maxed missle suport skills
You can hit a ceptor for big dmg easy at any speed (cept AB ceptors), AF don't need presision, but no one has all of the above so
Should at least be able to get the 1-3% hardwires, I would skip the drugs and go T1 on the rigs and get skills up, for the bomber which is using cruise vs frigs you really need lvl 5 skills to back that up. |
Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2009.02.11 11:37:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Cpt Cosmic on 11/02/2009 11:38:14
problem is, most frigates have lower sig and high base speed thus they will greatly reduce your dmg done. good thing is, even if their base speed is high, you can still do full dmg if their sig is high enough. doubling their signature radius results in full dmg done, 2 TP will do the trick. now the problem with target painters is, they have pretty low optimal range, thus you could use a drake/caracal instead (that is fully insurable)
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Murina
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.02.11 11:54:00 -
[15]
Bombers are a issue but the fact is that 425mm rail guns, tachyon beams and 1400 arties cannot hit frigs either.
But then they cannot be fitted on a frig either.......
Bombers break the mold and class between shiips and weapon classes distinction in eve.
Originally by: 7shining7one7
Lasers get reduced dmg inside optimal if you are approaching with 0 transversal cos lasers fragment when you approach them
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Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2009.02.11 12:01:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Murina
Bombers are a issue but the fact is that 425mm rail guns, tachyon beams and 1400 arties cannot hit frigs either.
But then they cannot be fitted on a frig either.......
Bombers break the mold and class between shiips and weapon classes distinction in eve.
this btw
nevertheless if you have 2 SB in a gang with range rigs for TP + 2 TP fitted, the chance is pretty high that atleast2 TP will kick in resulting in insta popping frigs.
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Ancy Denaries
Caldari
Solaris Operations
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Posted - 2009.02.11 13:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Cpt Cosmic
this btw
nevertheless if you have 2 SB in a gang with range rigs for TP + 2 TP fitted, the chance is pretty high that atleast2 TP will kick in resulting in insta popping frigs.
Unless they are movingāof course.
-----
Why doesn't anyone ever read the forums before posting?
EVE is a PvP game. Adaptation is your survival. |
Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.11 13:52:00 -
[18]
I personally feel that a SB should have bonuses (with high skills) that would neutralize the cruise missile penalties for hittig small ships.
MAX SB SKILLS = Cruise missiles would hit like light missiles, but with much much more alpha. If the target is a slippery thing for light missiles, then it would be a slippery one for these too.
Stop whining. |
Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2009.02.11 13:58:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ancy Denaries
Originally by: Cpt Cosmic
this btw
nevertheless if you have 2 SB in a gang with range rigs for TP + 2 TP fitted, the chance is pretty high that atleast2 TP will kick in resulting in insta popping frigs.
Unless they are movingāof course.
looks like you missed the speed rebalance patch  . if targets sig exceed your missile explosion radius you can still deal full dmg even if they move fast enough to reduce the dmg under normal circumstances.
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K1RTH G3RS3N
Haunted House
BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2009.02.11 14:25:00 -
[20]
Edited by: K1RTH G3RS3N on 11/02/2009 14:29:38
yes i had same problem the other day - ws a tuskers pilot actually - i got off about 4 volleys in my approx 250dps/2800volley manticore on his rifter first volley him just turning around and i think i MAYBE got through shield by the time i popped.
Recruiting \o/ |
Cho Boom
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Posted - 2009.02.11 18:48:00 -
[21]
Thanks for all the reply's o/ Especialy that link its gold.
I'll train up for:
navigation prediction 5
missile precision 5
Signature Focusing 5
Those should up the damage more than training actual damage skills for shooting anything smaller than your launchers intended size of target.
And yes ill take a more usefull ship in gangs untill i can use the bomber effectivly o/
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K1RTH G3RS3N
Haunted House
BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2009.02.11 20:16:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Cho Boom
Thanks for all the reply's o/ Especialy that link its gold.
I'll train up for:
navigation prediction 5
missile precision 5
Signature Focusing 5
Those should up the damage more than training actual damage skills for shooting anything smaller than your launchers intended size of target.
And yes ill take a more usefull ship in gangs untill i can use the bomber effectivly o/
nah those skills wont let you do more damage they just compensate for the damage that has disappeared into mid-air.
Recruiting \o/ |
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