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David Kang
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Posted - 2009.02.10 22:19:00 -
[1]
Without going into full detail about this chain mail email I received as it isn't PC, I would just like to know how many other people got it also.
OK a little about this email.
It is what I received from an American friend.
Holocaust Ban in UK Schools Chain Email
After sitting down to him and explaining to him that the UK Hasn't banned such a thing he was shocked.
Is the PC state in England really become that BAD that the Americans will believe that?
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari Terradyne Networks Terradyne Networks Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.10 22:30:00 -
[2]
Your friend must really be a dim bulb.
But then I have a coworker who is like this with all those virus advisory emails so she sends it to me and I send her back the snopes link. |

Rondo Gunn
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.02.10 22:51:00 -
[3]
No, Mr. Kang. But holocaust denial is a touchy subject, wouldn't you agree?
I know I've already had one screaming match with one idiotic person about it.  ----------------------------------------------- shin ku myo u
Please note: Everything I say is flavored with irony, cynicism and, of course, minty freshness. |

David Kang
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Posted - 2009.02.10 22:59:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Rondo Gunn No, Mr. Kang. But holocaust denial is a touchy subject, wouldn't you agree?
I know I've already had one screaming match with one idiotic person about it. 
Agreed its a touchy subject. but one that should t not be forgotten. its nothing to do with the Germans as a people. its to teach what **** dictatorship is and its wrong doings.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari Terradyne Networks Terradyne Networks Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:01:00 -
[5]
In all honesty I can't imagine why someone would not want to know about it.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:02:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 10/02/2009 23:03:10 This is just one more example of crap that targets those in the US who are ready to believe anything that smears Muslims. Many right wing political action committees here in America play to low information voters' fears by pushing the meme of all Muslims being bloodthirsty barbarians.
Yeah Ahmadinejad denies the holocaust. Yeah theocracy is probably the least valid basis of government. Yeah there are extremist Muslims serving in violent terrorist organizations. But these things are rarely examined with any nuance in public political discourse here, and you get things like this chain mail or the unsolicited copy of the "Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against the West" film that many of us swing staters received before the 2008 election.
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Fire Watch
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:27:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Fire Watch on 10/02/2009 23:28:17 Britain has some PC issues.
Britiain bans Geert Wilders for being a security risk Linkage
Liberals are really pushing there luck with all there political correctness bull****. |

Rondo Gunn
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:28:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich In all honesty I can't imagine why someone would not want to know about it.
Because they live in a fantasy world constructed around the belief that their individual failures are due to some zionist propoganda machine and not in fact their own inferiority? |

Aurora148
RPS Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:51:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Aurora148 on 10/02/2009 23:51:29 le sigh
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Rob Z0mbie
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:54:00 -
[10]
Sounds to me like someone's getting ready to attack Iran.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.02.11 00:09:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 11/02/2009 00:09:35
Quote: ôThe film has nothing to do with freedom of expression. This freedom does not give the right to offend"
This is one thing that's always bugged me about free speech laws in several European countries. The idea that freedom of speech doesn't give the right to offend is at odds with everything I've ever been taught about the American version of this freedom and I can't help but consider our version superior in this regard.
That said, might it be that what this Dutch MEP actually meant, perhaps being lost in translation, was that the film was an incitement to violence against a certain group? Because that, and I'll jump back to the American interpretation of free speech here, was ruled to be unprotected speech long, long ago.
As an atheist and progressive I have a hard time backing any party in the debate over this movie. Geert Wilders professed hatred of Islam, Muslims threatening Warner, the parliamentarians who cave on banning the film or saying that the film is too offensive to be protected under the free speech blanket... I dunno. Everyone sucks I guess 
I read up a bit on that Fitna movie and it sounds a lot like that short film I mentioned in my earlier post: replete with examples of the worst that the Qu'ran and radical Islam have to offer, without placing it in any context. A biased filmmaker could easily do the same thing with a movie about any other major religion.
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Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.02.11 00:24:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 11/02/2009 00:25:01 I come to say that I have not seen that in my email box.
Then again, I am a pretty indiscriminate deleter of mails.
- If it is not from something I recognize as authoritative or buisness related it is deleted.
- If it is not from someone I know personally then it is deleted.
- If it has the pre-text fwd on it, it gets deleted.
- If the title does not peak my interest it just may be deleted.
So in all honesty I can not say I have not recieved it though  
Slade
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2009.02.11 00:31:00 -
[13]
Moslem!
I am a Moslem according to that e-mail, hurf durf.
To be honest though, anybody who denies the Holocaust is mentally ******ed. |

Cierejai
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.11 01:34:00 -
[14]
I can see that it happening. Recently the word 'God' was removed from the graduation speech at the university in my city because it offended some atheists.
Recently the NATIONAL ANTHEM was banned from being played every morning at a school in New Brunswick. The don't say it is because of the reference to god, but connect the dots.
"Different families have different beliefs.... It's not up to me as a school administrator to subject kids to something their parents don't want them exposed to. I have to protect the minority rights as well as the majority rights."
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/story.html?id=1232716
lol?
The irony is that the definition of democracy is, 'government by the people ; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections' |

Rondo Gunn
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.02.11 01:52:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cierejai I can see that it happening. Recently the word 'God' was removed from the graduation speech at the university in my city because it offended some atheists.
Recently the NATIONAL ANTHEM was banned from being played every morning at a school in New Brunswick. The don't say it is because of the reference to god, but connect the dots.
"Different families have different beliefs.... It's not up to me as a school administrator to subject kids to something their parents don't want them exposed to. I have to protect the minority rights as well as the majority rights."
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/story.html?id=1232716
lol?
The irony is that the definition of democracy is, 'government by the people ; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections'
Topic is about holocaust denial and a stupid email. Not really about current religious agendas.  ----------------------------------------------- shin ku myo u
Please note: Everything I say is flavored with irony, cynicism and, of course, minty freshness. |

Cierejai
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.11 01:56:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Rondo Gunn
Originally by: Cierejai I can see that it happening. Recently the word 'God' was removed from the graduation speech at the university in my city because it offended some atheists.
Recently the NATIONAL ANTHEM was banned from being played every morning at a school in New Brunswick. The don't say it is because of the reference to god, but connect the dots.
"Different families have different beliefs.... It's not up to me as a school administrator to subject kids to something their parents don't want them exposed to. I have to protect the minority rights as well as the majority rights."
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/story.html?id=1232716
lol?
The irony is that the definition of democracy is, 'government by the people ; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections'
Topic is about holocaust denial and a stupid email. Not really about current religious agendas. 
I was attempting to show the mail could in fact be true, because ridiculous stuff like that does happen. :D
Even if it isn't true, it could happen.
mirite?
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.02.11 01:57:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 11/02/2009 01:58:24
Originally by: Cierejai I can see that it happening. Recently the word 'God' was removed from the graduation speech at the university in my city because it offended some atheists.
Recently the NATIONAL ANTHEM was banned from being played every morning at a school in New Brunswick. The don't say it is because of the reference to god, but connect the dots.
"Different families have different beliefs.... It's not up to me as a school administrator to subject kids to something their parents don't want them exposed to. I have to protect the minority rights as well as the majority rights."
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/story.html?id=1232716
lol?
The irony is that the definition of democracy is, 'government by the people ; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections'
Typically when references to God are excluded from things like commencement speeches it's because the context they appear in is exclusionary. I think this is a valid concern of atheists and those whose religion doesn't have a single central god, because in those cases it may be taken to imply that those not holding a belief in a central god are not as equal as those who do. Remember this is just a case-by-case issue. It's not like atheists have an allergy to the G word itself.
As for the Canadian national anthem thing I wouldn't want to speculate too deep into that. Although if they sing the French version there I might be able to understand why some people would find it offensive. The lyrics aren't the same as the English "O Canada". The French version talks about carrying both a sword and a cross in one's arms, and that Canadian valor is steeped in faith. Some people get edgy when others glorify the idea of faith-based aggression, after all. Not saying every French speaking Canadian interprets the lyrics like that, but I'd understand if some did.
Also your definition of democracy is not fully valid here. A true democracy is in its purest form a rule by majority, but the reason it isn't fully valid is two-fold: 1. there are no pure democracies amongst national governments today 2. the majority cannot simply impose its will on a country when it comes to issues at the core of that country's constitutional values (in this case those being free speech and free religion.) Referendums are needed. Multiple votes taken. Supermajorities are usually required to amend the constitution to implement the desired changes.
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Rondo Gunn
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.02.11 02:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Typically when references to God are excluded from things like commencement speeches it's because the context they appear in is exclusionary. I think this is a valid concern of atheists and those whose religion doesn't have a single central god, because in those cases it may be taken to imply that those not holding a belief in a central god are not as equal as those who do. Remember this is just a case-by-case issue. It's not like atheists have an allergy to the G word itself.
Well said.
And yes, to the other poster, this sorta stuff happens far too often. Repression and denial of the facts and histories of our forefathers is the first step to tyranny, dictatorship and more human-made horrors. It is a tool used by all Evil men.
And yes that's Evil with a capital 'E'.
----------------------------------------------- shin ku myo u
Please note: Everything I say is flavored with irony, cynicism and, of course, minty freshness. |

Cierejai
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.11 02:25:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Cierejai on 11/02/2009 02:26:04
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 11/02/2009 01:58:24
Originally by: Cierejai I can see that it happening. Recently the word 'God' was removed from the graduation speech at the university in my city because it offended some atheists.
Recently the NATIONAL ANTHEM was banned from being played every morning at a school in New Brunswick. The don't say it is because of the reference to god, but connect the dots.
"Different families have different beliefs.... It's not up to me as a school administrator to subject kids to something their parents don't want them exposed to. I have to protect the minority rights as well as the majority rights."
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/story.html?id=1232716
lol?
The irony is that the definition of democracy is, 'government by the people ; especially : rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections'
Typically when references to God are excluded from things like commencement speeches it's because the context they appear in is exclusionary. I think this is a valid concern of atheists and those whose religion doesn't have a single central god, because in those cases it may be taken to imply that those not holding a belief in a central god are not as equal as those who do. Remember this is just a case-by-case issue. It's not like atheists have an allergy to the G word itself.
As for the Canadian national anthem thing I wouldn't want to speculate too deep into that. Although if they sing the French version there I might be able to understand why some people would find it offensive. The lyrics aren't the same as the English "O Canada". The French version talks about carrying both a sword and a cross in one's arms, and that Canadian valor is steeped in faith. Some people get edgy when others glorify the idea of faith-based aggression, after all. Not saying every French speaking Canadian interprets the lyrics like that, but I'd understand if some did.
Also your definition of democracy is not fully valid here. A true democracy is in its purest form a rule by majority, but the reason it isn't fully valid is two-fold: 1. there are no pure democracies amongst national governments today 2. the majority cannot simply impose its will on a country when it comes to issues at the core of that country's constitutional values (in this case those being free speech and free religion.) Referendums are needed. Multiple votes taken. Supermajorities are usually required to amend the constitution to implement the desired changes.
There are countless examples of the majority getting the shaft for reasoning of equality, politcal correctness, minority complaints. You see, tolerance is supposed to be a two way street, we each hold hands and respect each other. Everyone wins. But in reality tolerance is a one way street, minorities drive the politically correct bulldozer and break down everything that has stood for hundreds of years.
I believe in equality, and clearly this is not the case.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.02.11 02:31:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 11/02/2009 02:32:01
Originally by: Cierejai There are countless examples of the majority getting the shaft for reasoning of equality, politcal correctness, minority complaints. You see, tolerance is supposed to be a two way street, we each hold hands and respect each other. Everyone wins. But in reality tolerance is a one way street, minorities drive the politically correct bulldozer and break down everything that has stood for hundreds of years.
I believe in equality, and clearly this is not the case.
But historically, not only in the Western world but in many places, the systems that stood for hundreds of years were often stupefyingly unequal by objective standards. |

Cierejai
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.11 02:53:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Cierejai on 11/02/2009 02:54:20
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 11/02/2009 02:32:01
Originally by: Cierejai There are countless examples of the majority getting the shaft for reasoning of equality, politcal correctness, minority complaints. You see, tolerance is supposed to be a two way street, we each hold hands and respect each other. Everyone wins. But in reality tolerance is a one way street, minorities drive the politically correct bulldozer and break down everything that has stood for hundreds of years.
I believe in equality, and clearly this is not the case.
But historically, not only in the Western world but in many places, the systems that stood for hundreds of years were often stupefyingly unequal by objective standards.
That's true, I assume you are talking about something like woman's rights. But that is oppression, which I would be against. Take for example, "Merry Christmas". Regardless of it's conception in history, today, I am not oppressing you with a system of belief you do not hold, I am simply being polite. And a correct response would be "thank you". Even if you don't celebrate Christmas, look around, our country obviously does. People can be polite back, but most choose to draw attention to a negative by saying they don't celebrate Christmas. But hey ,today politcal correctness means I say, "happy holidays".
edit: I didn't word that the best, but you get the idea. |

TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.02.11 02:55:00 -
[22]
Edited by: TraininVain on 11/02/2009 02:55:56
Quote: Is the PC state in England really become that BAD that the Americans will believe that?
Your post makes my brain hurt. Your friend emails you something stupid (your friend may be an idiot. Just saying) so you're asking if the stupid thing he emailed speaks of a deeper truth that makes stuff like that plausible to idiots?
Personally I wouldn't be thinking it through any further than "This copypasta email is stupid"... although that goes without saying. All copypasta email is stupid.
"PC" is basically a term people still living in that imaginary week in 195X use to discredit anything left wing. Right or wrong if it's "politically correct" it can be discounted. I tend to automatically file anyone using the term with any regularity as a bigot of some variety although that's a little prejudiced of me.
As for Britain, you do or did get the odd bit of bat**** insanity in Britain usually at the local government level.
There were a few Labour councils that did the odd wacky thing and got the attention of the tabloid press leading to them coining the term "Loony Left". I wouldn't say that reflected a trend particularly. Generally Britain is more stodgy and conservative than anything else. |

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.11 07:24:00 -
[23]
Hes a dumbass, but I cant blame him....
I mean you should know this just as well as I, with all the different news articles that pop up on the eve forums alone, would that be so radically unbelieveable anymore? Tbh, while this might be sad, very VERY few things can take me off guard about the human race at this point, so I do understand how he could be easily misslead into believing this.
But still, hes dumb.... I say you take away his breathing privilages now.
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BiggestT
Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.02.11 08:00:00 -
[24]
Things like this are not constructive at all.
Political relations with muslim and Western countries are always tense at best, efforts that aim to cause dissension in the populace and condemn a religion simply becasue they are different have no use at all.
Why would someone make an email like this?
EVE history
t2 precisions |

Reven Cordelle
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.02.11 10:55:00 -
[25]
Deny it?!
Haha - Oh it happened. Oh Yes.
It was histories most prolific attack on humanity yet it yielded some pretty handy scientific information.
But yeah - the United Kingdom bends over for any other country - and it only takes ONE complaint from ONE person to completely ban or change something.
Stupid really, its like the entire country thinks it gets its money from that one person.
Britain was once a substantial world power - then weak-willed busybodies got behind the wheel and turned it into a slushy pathetic husk of a country.
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.02.11 12:48:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Reven Cordelle Deny it?!
Haha - Oh it happened. Oh Yes.
It was histories most prolific attack on humanity yet it yielded some pretty handy scientific information.
But yeah - the United Kingdom bends over for any other country - and it only takes ONE complaint from ONE person to completely ban or change something.
Stupid really, its like the entire country thinks it gets its money from that one person.
Britain was once a substantial world power - then weak-willed busybodies got behind the wheel and turned it into a slushy pathetic husk of a country.
Twaddle. We used to be rapacious bandit kings.
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jason hill
Caldari Clan Shadow Wolf Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.11 15:51:00 -
[27]
Edited by: jason hill on 11/02/2009 15:51:47 if you really then I suggest you watch this programme nullThe Fun Police ...its the second video down on the list
destroy everything you touch |

ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.11 17:42:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Cierejai Recently the NATIONAL ANTHEM was banned from being played every morning at a school in New Brunswick.
that is good eve on my school on communist time we dint do that kids go to learn things not to be brainless-soldier-patriots btw recruit more players in your corp/alliance and tell your enemy to make the same thing and you get more players in low sec and 0.0 |

AsmodeaN
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.11 17:49:00 -
[29]
Originally by: David Kang Edited by: David Kang on 10/02/2009 23:03:44
Originally by: Rondo Gunn No, Mr. Kang. But holocaust denial is a touchy subject, wouldn't you agree?
I know I've already had one screaming match with one idiotic person about it. 
Agreed its a touchy subject. but one that should t not be forgotten. its nothing to do with the Germans as a people. its to teach what **** dictatorship is and its wrong doings. this also leads onto Fascism and Totalitarianism
You must ofcourse acknowledge the fact that Fascism is infact a very efficient form of government right? Technically a slightly modified version of fascism would actually be a very good system as long as the person at the top isn't a mentalist. Peoples view of fascism is ofcourse scewed because of what has happened in the past. (and rightly so!) The Naz.is were evil, and that isn't going to far at all. BUT even though i hate everything about them you cannot depute that the way they trasformed germany into a superpower was remarkable.
Yes freedom is great and the idea of democracy is superb, to be honest it really doesn't work particularly well. And to tie all that into the OP one reason why democracy is pap is because it allows ******s to come up with stupid ideas.
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Araxmas
The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.12 01:18:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Reven Cordelle
Britain was once a substantial world power - then weak-willed busybodies got behind the wheel and turned it into a slushy pathetic husk of a country.
Yes because if we were still a super-power all of England's troubles will go away  --------
derek |
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