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Alexander Faraday
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Posted - 2009.02.11 11:34:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Alexander Faraday on 11/02/2009 11:35:12
Hi all,
I'm sure it's something that gets asked a lot but as I can't find the search feature for this forum I'll have to post on it for now.
Ever since day 1 of my recent EVE trial, I've been interested in Covert Ops ships. I'm not some kid wanting to OMGGANX from stealth or anything, I just find the ship concept excessively appealing and the time I'm not spending in a Covert Ops vessel feels like time I'm being forced to do a kind of unwanted 'work'.
However... From everything I've heard, they're awful ships. People say you just sit and watch and never take any action. People say the stealth bombers are kind of cool, but they can't actually warp stealthed, so what's the point? People say they're found easily. People say they're expensive and hard to pilot well, etc, etc, etc.
People's opinions are all I have to go on at this point, as training the skills for the ships will take me about a month at this rate.
So what are your thoughts? What is the role of the Covert Ops ship? Does it even have one outside of extremely high-level organized fleeting? Opinions are welcome. Thank you.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.11 11:38:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Zeba on 11/02/2009 11:40:05
1 cheeta with a buffer tank and point + 1 gank fit bs/bc = 1 unsuspecting dead target. And that just the beggining of all the tasty things you can do with a cov ops with a bit of imagination.
So I guess a sneaky point is the point. 
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Rordan D'Kherr
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Posted - 2009.02.11 11:52:00 -
[3]
CovertOps are useful as
1.) Scout ships (to report intel about hostile fleets and POS)
2.) Cyno ships (provide a cyno field for capital ships)
3.) Exploration toys (fit scan probes and find hidden stuff)
CovOps are useless for PvP. You can fit a warp disruptor for any case, but this ship isn't made for it.
Really aweful ships are stealth bombers, that might the ones you have heard of. These cannot warp when cloaked, do bad dps and cannot tank anything.
But CovOps skills are required to go for recon ships, which you will love for sure. So training for CovOps is not a bad deal 
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Alexander Faraday
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Posted - 2009.02.11 11:57:00 -
[4]
Thanks. =D
Well, luckily for me I'm a bit of a carebear and I'm not all that into PVP. Of course, the universe is which is a bit of a problem...
Are recon scouts used regularly though? I'm currently in a corp that basically trains newbies and it's great but it lacks any focus on 'endgame' I think. So I really have no concept of what I'd do with myself once I got into a CovOps ship.
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Thorian Baalnorn
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Posted - 2009.02.11 11:59:00 -
[5]
I fly both covert ops regularly.
The Stealth Bombers have their uses. A stealth bomber that cant stay stealthed i find to be a tad on the stupid side but w/e. They work decent in gang pvp as DPS ships for lower sp pilots.Though higher SP pilots tend to favor larger ships. They basically have to range tank and if you get targeted your pretty much instapopped. The DPS is ok about equal to a raven roughly. Never tried the bomb launcher but since it deals AOE damage i would say its use is quite limited. Overall they are fun lil cheap ships to play around in. Wouldnt recommend flying one in a major fleet battle but thats just me.
The actual covert ops ships can have a few uses: 1) exploring dangerous areas with scan probes 2) scouting 3)i have known them to be used as tackle but personally id use an inty if i were using t2 frigs. 4) dropping covert cynos
Basically like most other ships in this game covert ops and bombers have their uses. just my 2 isk
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Birkinz
Caldari
Vectra Source Partnership
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Posted - 2009.02.11 12:03:00 -
[6]
"The DPS is ok about equal to a raven roughly"
Its not = to a raven. Count the launhcers and look at the bonuses.
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Maisonian
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Posted - 2009.02.11 12:05:00 -
[7]
Well, they like all T2 variants have their intended purpose - step outside of this too far and you're presented with a wall of fail. With regards to the Cov-ops ship you can use it in two ways that I can think of; the first is purely for scanning for sites/anomolies using the standard probe launcher (although a 'sisters' one is recomended if you can afford it). The second however, is a little more interesting; by fitting some light ewar (scram/TD on my anathema), a recon probe launcher and an AB/MWD you can work very effectively in a gang as a target locator that can de-cloak and lock down the target untill support arrives. |
Rordan D'Kherr
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Posted - 2009.02.11 12:07:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Alexander Faraday
Thanks. =D
Well, luckily for me I'm a bit of a carebear and I'm not all that into PVP. Of course, the universe is which is a bit of a problem...
Are recon scouts used regularly though? I'm currently in a corp that basically trains newbies and it's great but it lacks any focus on 'endgame' I think. So I really have no concept of what I'd do with myself once I got into a CovOps ship.
In larger engagements covops scouts are must. Mostly they are used with alt accounts, because going for a dedicated scout (if you have one account) is very very boring, trust me (you only observe, you do not act).
In smaller engagements scouts are a must, but you might use a recon ship (force recon or better a covert recon ship) for that (because you can scout and fight aswell).
As a carebear exploration stuff is a good possibility to get money and get into the scanning stuff. But it's, too, a bit boring imho.
Btw: There is no "endgame" in EVE. But you will find your way... 
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Thorian Baalnorn
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Posted - 2009.02.11 12:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Alexander Faraday
Thanks. =D
Well, luckily for me I'm a bit of a carebear and I'm not all that into PVP. Of course, the universe is which is a bit of a problem...
Are recon scouts used regularly though? I'm currently in a corp that basically trains newbies and it's great but it lacks any focus on 'endgame' I think. So I really have no concept of what I'd do with myself once I got into a CovOps ship.
Recon is used quite a bit and logistically in null space covert op ships are at times a necessity. Scouts are used when high value loads are being moved.
As was mentioned you should ultimately go for cruiser class recons. You would love them. think covert ops crossed with assault frigate on steroids. Recons are great pvp ships. are alot more durable, alot more versatile and can be useful in many many more situations than covert ops. And people tend to fear them
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.02.11 12:44:00 -
[10]
Edited by: TraininVain on 11/02/2009 12:45:10
They're not awful per se. What they do, they do very well.
It depends on how much you enjoy scouting really. A recon is a step up but it's also a big step up in cost and training time.
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Thorian Baalnorn
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Posted - 2009.02.11 12:53:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Birkinz
"The DPS is ok about equal to a raven roughly"
Its not = to a raven. Count the launhcers and look at the bonuses.
lol
yes more launchers =more boom booms.To end this DPS debate... i can fit a bomb launcher on my manti and do 3300 dps and over 8k alpha when you build a fitable raven that can do that ill send you all my isk. ( you can even use a CNR)
So QFT
for the OP. Like with any ships some people like them some dont some will swear up and down they can get more out of a ibis while some swear they can kill anything in a SB. Realistically. for a frigate size ship they do alot of damage and thats what they are intended to do heavy damage in an eggshell. you can get over 200 DPS on a bomber which is good for a frig. you can get more on a raven. and yet you can fit a bomb launcher to a manti and out dps any sub cap ship i can think of off the top of my head. you probably wont live very long but like i said for a frig its got good dps with just cruises.
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Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
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Posted - 2009.02.11 13:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
Originally by: Birkinz
"The DPS is ok about equal to a raven roughly"
Its not = to a raven. Count the launhcers and look at the bonuses.
lol
yes more launchers =more boom booms.
One of the actual limiting factors of a stealth bomber is that most of them don't have a great deal of CPU and thus flexibility in fittings that larger ships do. In particular, while it has 3 launchers to the Raven's 6, it's also nigh-on impossible to fit 3 BCS on any stealth bomber, whereas any realistic Raven fit will have 3 (and occasionally even a fourth) BCS. Consequently the Raven already does more than double the damage because of this, and since it gets a 25% ROF reduction (=> 33% DPS increase) to the bombers' 25% damage bonus, this gets played out even further.
Quote:
Realistically. for a frigate size ship they do alot of damage and thats what they are intended to do heavy damage in an eggshell. you can get over 200 DPS on a bomber which is good for a frig.
One of the problems with the bombers, though, is that this DPS is very hard to apply to smaller targets, since it's not using small-sized weaponry. As noted in other threads in this same subforum, you will never realise anything like the 200 theoretical DPS when firing at another frigate because of massivedamage reduction issues. Other 200 DPS frigates such as the Ishkur and Taranis are using small weapons and thus have no problems dealing this damage to small, fast ships. An untanked Rifter with an afterburner could easily take enough volleys from a stealth bomber in order to kill it, even if he has to cover 100km or so to reach it, whereas he would be dead very quickly to either of the aforementioned ships.
So the bomber can only really apply its damage reasonably well to targets of cruiser size and up. At that point, the damage level starts to look a lot less impressive; and again, the Ishkur and Taranis can easily take down solo cruisers because they have the agility and natural tankability to avoid most of the cruiser's damage and absorb what little makes it through. You wouldn't be able to pull off this same stunt in a stealth bomber, and would be dead long before your 200 DPS started to trouble the cruiser.
The one thing they do have for a frigate-sized ship is a decent range. One passable use for this is in firing on Falcons - cruiser sized, untanked ships that your missiles will actually be decent against. You won't be able to kill the Falcon unless he's AFK, but you will be able to force him to warp. Other than that, SBs can be used in gangs as long-range artillery support, though in a gang situation 200 DPS is hardly anything to write home about; a Cerberus can do more damage at a much longer range with similar/better precision, and a simple Caracal will rival the bomber's performance in a similar role. Sniper cruisers likewise will give better damage with better ability to hit small things (and no delayed damage either).
So yes, 200 DPS for a frigate looks good on paper, but it ain't what you've got, it's how you use it. Getting that 200 DPS to actually do something useful (in a situation where another comparable ship wouldn't do the same or better) is pretty tough.
Quote:
and yet you can fit a bomb launcher to a manti and out dps any sub cap ship i can think of off the top of my head.
Bombs are 0.0 only and have their own issues, plus quoting DPS for AoE weapons isn't very useful. Despite what EFT says, you can't do 6400 damage every 2 seconds as you can only fire one bomb every 3 minutes (IIRC), so actually this works out at ~35 DPS if you really want to give it a figure. And as before, the explosion radius of 400m on a bomb means that anything that would be troubled by 6400 damage will receive much less than that anyway.
Please don't just look at raw figures without taking into account what they mean. Interpretation is key to using EFT usefully to improve actual TQ performance.
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Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
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Posted - 2009.02.11 13:43:00 -
[13]
Oh, and to answer the OP - covops ships themselves are very very good at getting around undetected, and using probes quickly. That's basically it. While you can use them in actual combat, they'd die in a straight 1 vs 1 with a sensibly-fit T1 frigate, as they have bad offensive and defensive capabilities.
As someone said above, if you keep them cloaked except for the few seconds where you're dropping probes, and use them to provide intel and coordinate movements then they're excellent at that role. If you want to use them to actually get involved, then they're not so hot.
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Acinonyx Jubatus
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.02.11 14:04:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Rordan D'Kherr
CovOps are useless for PvP. You can fit a warp disruptor for any case, but this ship isn't made for it.
Maybe, then again I am/was a bit ballsy with my alt's cov ops and kept it alive for well over a year until I sold it for 2 mill  (I had to do something, better than letting it sit stuck in MB station for eternity)
It's not always the best, nor anywhere near the safest idea, but a cov ops can be used in direct combat.
My regular setup consisted of a web, 2 x scrams, and an mwd. I did this due to the fact I thought of multistabbed ships slipping through bubbleless gangs when I fitted it, basically a "not gonna get away this time!  " kind of deal. Problem with pitting a covert ops in combat... is it's very dicey and the ship combined with the cloak and other T2 goodies(maybe even rigs) is a very very fragile pinata.
The second you get locked, or even fired upon, you're pretty much ****ed.
That said, you can provide some sort of additional support given your ship/tastes/skills to help your gang a little. Usually 1-2 ewar mods of some sort, about all you can do really, maybe 1 gun/drone/missile as well if you have one.
Do note revealing yourself as a covert ops pilot can have its own set of consequences.
That out of the way, the primary role of them is to serve as a scout and seek out other ships. It's pretty simple really, though I'm not sure on the upcoming changes to probing if it'll pretty much simplify ship probing further, so you'll probably want to pratice probing/scanning techniques.
A lone covert ops can be helpful to any gang... and just plain lolz when you have 10-15 people joining a gang of 20-25 with them.
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Alexander Faraday
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Posted - 2009.02.11 15:16:00 -
[15]
Thanks guys, the input is appreciated.
It's sorta not what I wanted to hear though sadly. As a carebear player without the time to get deeply, deeply involved in fleet ops with a corp, it's somewhat of a letdown to find that these ships are probably useless to me.
Ack! I mean if I can't fight I can't make money off that, or off industry... And if I'm not doing recon for 'high level' fleet stuff then I'm pointless.
I'm going off to cry in the corner now. =P
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Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2009.02.11 15:36:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Rordan D'Kherr
Really aweful ships are stealth bombers, that might the ones you have heard of. These cannot warp when cloaked, do bad dps and cannot tank anything.
Confirming that stealth bombers suck. You're better off using something else in just about every instance.
Using cruise missiles: Attacking small ships, you don't do any damage. Attacking larger ships, you'll do damage, but not enough to matter. A fleet of ten bombers can insta-pop cruisers and whatnot, but honestly, if you fly something else you'll end up doing more damage and have better survivability.
I haven't had any experience with bombs - from all that I have heard, I don't even want to try them.
That doesn't mean they're not fun to fly... I fly one on occasion for kicks. They're just very ineffective.
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Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Frigateers
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Posted - 2009.02.11 15:39:00 -
[17]
I decided to train for covert ops the first time I was in a fleet that had a scout using one for probing. I wanted to learn to be a fleet commander and I realized that the scout was the one doing all the thinking and talking while the rest of us (including the FC) were just sitting there in our ships waiting for the "go" signal.
In practicing my probing skills I tried probing people in high-sec and discovered the art of ninja salvaging. That was fun for several months.
Now that I live in lowsec and fly in 0.0, I've discovered that covert ops ships are indispensible as courier ships, as well. If you're going to carry a dozen T2 modules to fit out a new ship, you don't want to fly them through the gatecamps and bubble camps in an industrial or even a T1 frigate.
So what I'm saying is, the ship class is incredibly versatile. Also most people greatly enjoy the power of stalking and watching other players without their knowledge, that's fun too.
.............
Starbreaker Frigateers - life on the edge |
Johan Price
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Posted - 2009.02.11 15:42:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Also most people greatly enjoy the power of stalking and watching other players without their knowledge, that's fun too.
Pretty much.
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K1RTH G3RS3N
Haunted House
BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2009.02.11 15:58:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Alexander Faraday
Thanks. =D
Well, luckily for me I'm a bit of a carebear and I'm not all that into PVP. Of course, the universe is which is a bit of a problem...
Are recon scouts used regularly though? I'm currently in a corp that basically trains newbies and it's great but it lacks any focus on 'endgame' I think. So I really have no concept of what I'd do with myself once I got into a CovOps ship.
a friend of mine uses an alt completely specialised in covops and probing for the purpose of scouting and finding hidden players/mission runners. is awesome.
Recruiting \o/ |
Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2009.02.11 16:19:00 -
[20]
The CovOps Frigates (not including the Stealth Bombers, I'll talk about them later) are one of the few ships that are both highly specialized, very effective at what they do, and perform several functions that are always going to be useful. I have an alt who's sole purpose in life was originally to fly CovOps frigates (CovOps V, Cyno V, near-maxed probing skills, etc.). If you need to move about unseen or probe someone or something out, this is the ship to use. Some very skilled/brave/stupid (depends on how you look at it) CovOps pilots will fit tackle on the ships when probing out hostiles to keep them from warping off; a sensor dampener with a scan res script comes in handy to keep your target from locking you as quickly. Others prefer to have a 'ceptor with them in fleet warp in and perform the initial tackle.
Aside from the typical scouting/cyno/probing, they are also a near necessity for large-scale fleet commanders; they allow the commander to focus on the fight at hand so they can keep calling targets without worrying as much about staying alive.
tl;dr version: like miners and haulers, there will always be a demand for CovOps pilots.
Stealth Bombers are somewhat less useful than their CovOps bretheren. They have their niche roles of course, but they aren't so universally useful to really justify specializing heavily in their use. Mind you my CovOps alt flies them, but only because he already has CovOps V and I haven't had him around long enough to get him into Recon ships yet.
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"I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
Mer Man
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Posted - 2009.02.11 16:30:00 -
[21]
If you had the covert ops as an alt for your main "carebear" account, they can be quite useful. Scouts gates, stations, etc when you're trying to move some good cargo through low sec..
I love mine
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Alexander Faraday
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Posted - 2009.02.11 16:41:00 -
[22]
Hmm. Well, I can see the appeal of them as scouting alts, however for me that would likely mean taking out a 2nd account, as I'm not immortal and can't wait 500 years to skill up two characters. =) Which is a tad lame, just because of the monthly cost.
HRM.
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Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum
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Posted - 2009.02.11 16:52:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Alexander Faraday
It's sorta not what I wanted to hear though sadly. As a carebear player without the time to get deeply, deeply involved in fleet ops with a corp, it's somewhat of a letdown to find that these ships are probably useless to me.
Ack! I mean if I can't fight I can't make money off that, or off industry... And if I'm not doing recon for 'high level' fleet stuff then I'm pointless.
If you want to do exploration (which is a basically carebear activity ), then covops are invaluable at present for vastly speeding up the time needed to find sites. No other ship can use scan probes anywhere near as well.
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Alexander Faraday
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Posted - 2009.02.11 16:57:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Gartel Reiman
If you want to do exploration (which is a basically carebear activity ), then covops are invaluable at present for vastly speeding up the time needed to find sites. No other ship can use scan probes anywhere near as well.
Thanks Gartel, I would like to know one thing though, is this profitable in any way? Because, you know... Money makes the universe go round? =D Apologies if the answer to that is obvious but I have only been playing for about 2 weeks (less in actual play time).
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xxxak
Caldari
O.W.N. Corp
OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.11 17:02:00 -
[25]
Edited by: xxxak on 11/02/2009 17:05:30
Edited by: xxxak on 11/02/2009 17:03:04
No one in this thread has done a great job of answering your question.
Two types of ships can warped cloaked, Covert Ops and Recons. I will discuss both and why that is important.
1) Covert ops ships and Recon ships are PvP ONLY. They are truly and indeed USELESS for 99% of all PVE work. The reason for this is that they lack the tank and DPS to kill serious NPC ships that make you real money. The only thing they are good for with regard to PVE is scanning down Complexes. Also, note that NO ship can SHOOT while cloaked, thus, even more useless for PVE fights.
2) Covert Ops shis and Recon ships can both warp cloaked. In 0.0 PvP this is EXTREMELY useful because you can get away from gate camps and bubbles MUCH more easily than any other ship class. Thus, Cov Ops and Recons are the best 0.0 scouts.
3) Recon ships have EXTREMELY useful special bonuses. They can Jam, Neutralize, and Web other ships, making enemies die MUCH faster. Recon ships are REQUIRED for serious 0.0 PvP.
In sum, Cloaking ships are USELESS in PVE fights.
Cloaking ships are CRUCIAL in PvP, especially 0.0 PVP
Train accordingly.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2009.02.11 17:30:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Alexander Faraday
Thanks guys, the input is appreciated.
It's sorta not what I wanted to hear though sadly. As a carebear player without the time to get deeply, deeply involved in fleet ops with a corp, it's somewhat of a letdown to find that these ships are probably useless to me.
Actually they can be great for carebears too. No one has mentioned they are hands down the fastest travel (not sublight although they can be quite speedy there too) ship in EVE. If you need to go 20 jumps nothing short of clone jumping will get you there faster. They align very quickly and, more importantly, have a warp speed of 13.5 AU/s. They cross 100 AU jaunts across a system in seconds.
Also, if you have a very high value and small cargo (e.g. some Officer mods) there is nothing better to get it safely from one place to another. With the CovOps cloak and a smidge of skill you are nigh unstoppable (not totally but very, very hard to catch unless you mess up).
And of course if for some reason you must dive into low sec for one reason or another nothing is safer to travel in if you are solo.
Very handy ships really.
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"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2009.02.11 17:31:00 -
[27]
Originally by: xxxak
Two types of ships can warped cloaked, Covert Ops and Recons.
Three kinds.
CovOps, Recons and Blockade Runners.
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"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Plinnk
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Posted - 2009.02.11 17:45:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Alexander Faraday
Originally by: Gartel Reiman
If you want to do exploration (which is a basically carebear activity ), then covops are invaluable at present for vastly speeding up the time needed to find sites. No other ship can use scan probes anywhere near as well.
Thanks Gartel, I would like to know one thing though, is this profitable in any way? Because, you know... Money makes the universe go round? =D Apologies if the answer to that is obvious but I have only been playing for about 2 weeks (less in actual play time).
It can be profitable, yes. Exploration can lead to some very nice hidden sites with good loot. You should know however that A) the best sites are in low/null sec, and B) exploration is considered by many to be very dull. I happen to like it, and I do it in low-sec systems which keeps me sharp and makes it exciting.
The money, however, is sporadic... some days you get a site with 50 mil in loot, other days you spend hours and find nothing. For sure-fire money-making it's hard to beat mission running, tbh.
Also, while cov ops are good for scanning out hidden hacking, archaeology and DED sites, they're not actually any good at getting the stuff out of them. You need to be able to fly a combat ship effectively so you can plunder the sites once you've found them, or be partnered with someone who can. You'd be best off getting comfy in a good combat/mission running ship before going after covops.
I love my cov ops but it is admittedly limited in its use. Stealth bombers are fun but aren't as uber as most stealth bomber pilots think they are. And as mentioned earlier, Cov Ops is a prereq for Recon cruisers, which are awesome.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2009.02.11 17:53:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Plinnk
The money, however, is sporadic... some days you get a site with 50 mil in loot, other days you spend hours and find nothing. For sure-fire money-making it's hard to beat mission running, tbh.
Also, while cov ops are good for scanning out hidden hacking, archaeology and DED sites, they're not actually any good at getting the stuff out of them. You need to be able to fly a combat ship effectively so you can plunder the sites once you've found them, or be partnered with someone who can. You'd be best off getting comfy in a good combat/mission running ship before going after covops.
Don't forget they will be very handy for probing in W-Space. Other ships can do it too (any ship really) but CovOps will be most efficient at it.
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"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Tandin
The Knights Templar
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.02.11 18:37:00 -
[30]
As a general rule, Cov Ops have 2 purposes for more experienced players:
1) As a probing ship. The bonuses with grav cap rigs and skills are excellent. This is likely to change to some degree with the upcoming release though since they've completely changed the way probing works.
2) As a stepping stone to force recons. Force recons are like cov ops that are a bit crunchier and can actually do something except probing that is useful.
It should be noted that there are 2 types of Recons. Force Recons and Combat recons. Combat recons are like super sized (mmm... french fries) ewar frigs. Force recons are like taking a cov ops frig and an ewar frig and stuffing both of their juicy fillings into a cruiser hull.
ôReligion is a terminal illness whose symptoms include the loss of common sense, humility, rational thinking, and in your case, moral decency.ö
- Gallente Ambassador Jacques Allirou, Caill |
Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.02.11 19:02:00 -
[31]
Covops frigates (not the bombers) are invaluable assets to a fleet, anyone stating differently obviously has no clue (kinda ballsy to say but it is how it is). Intel keeps you from making mistakes and they are the eyes and ears of the fleet, using inties for that just doesn't work as well.
Some people recommend using recons for it but that's just rubbish, a scout is there to... scout. NOT to put his ship on the line in combat. Actualy risking your ship to get on a KM is pretty much SELFISH when you're the main fleet scout. Apart from that recons have a MUCH larger signature radius meaning they'll get tackled more easily in gate camps which is CRAP.
If you want to put a point on a single BS target fit a 24km point and a sensor damp with scan res script. That buys you enough time for your fleet to jump in and warp to you.
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Grista
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Posted - 2009.02.11 19:12:00 -
[32]
Covert Ops ships are the "I win" button for running gatecamps. While they don't hold much, they are the only thing I use for moving small, extremely valuable items through normal gates in 0.0. Obviously, they are also great for positioning jump clones in 0.0, and POS management.
I have literally jumped into numerous 100 man gate camps with large T2 anchored bubbles and still never lost a covops. Getting decloaked by hostiles while burning out is a 1 in 1000 event if you are fit properly (MWD) and use the appropriate tactic (burning away from gate in random direction, not inline with celestial objects).
Note that it helps to have your route scouted beforehand with grid load bookmarks on gates, so you don't warp into a bubble. If you don't have those, simply warp into scan range of the gate, and wait until the bubble is down or number of hostiles are at a minimum.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2009.02.11 19:20:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Tandin
1) As a probing ship. The bonuses with grav cap rigs and skills are excellent. This is likely to change to some degree with the upcoming release though since they've completely changed the way probing works.
CCP will make any ship capable of some simple probing but they said the CovOps will remain the premier probing ship and be much more versatile/fast in doing its thing.
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"Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Plinnk
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Posted - 2009.02.11 19:43:00 -
[34]
Yes, as others have mentioned, it's worth noting that probing is going through a major overhaul, and thanks to wormholes is about to become much more interesting to a lot of people. How that will all shake out remains to be seen.
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Jalif
Black Sinisters
Freedom of Elbas
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Posted - 2009.02.11 23:27:00 -
[35]
A Covert-ops is really sneaky sneaky. I made that to my advantage today.
I had to use 4 points just to be sure XD
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Kakuremichi
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Posted - 2009.02.11 23:31:00 -
[36]
[Prowler, prober]
Caldari Navy Co-Processor
Caldari Navy Co-Processor
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Cap Recharger II
Domination Warp Disruptor
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Recon Probe Launcher, Snoop Scanner Probe I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
TBH this, cap stable at 2km/s perma orbit+ scram 
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Alexander Faraday
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Posted - 2009.02.12 01:54:00 -
[37]
Thanks for the input guys, I really appreciate all the data you're providing.
Still unsure about whether it'll be worth it for me personally or not, but I've seen both sides of the 'argument' about the ships now and it should make my decisions easier. Thanks a lot. =D
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Al Drevika
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Posted - 2009.02.12 02:20:00 -
[38]
The only use I've found for my Covert Ops is creating warp-to points in nullsec for returning to bubbled gates later with other ships. That's pretty much it.
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Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2009.02.12 03:06:00 -
[39]
Please don't train for a different ship just because people here are fixed on their FOTM tunnel vision.
"ZOMG ITS NOT AMARR BS CANT TANK SO ITS OBVIOUSLY USELESS RAVEN DOES MORE LOL DAMAGE COVERT OPS ARE STUPID RECON WORK BETTER "
please don't listen to those idiots ^^^
Covert ops work great with small gangs to probe out ships in ss to force them to fight you. Put a little EWAR on them and you might even have a short term tackler till your gang gets there if you think they are about to warp out.
Stealth bombers are very good at what they do. They can cloak to hide, and uncloak and engage targets with 3 BATTLESHIP sized weapons on a FRIGATE. not to mention the HUGE cost difference. Stealth bomber theoretically does about half the damage as a raven, but also costs way less than half. not to mention the tiny size, increased speed, and ability to cloak. On a fight against a typhoon, my corp mate and I (in stealth bombers) did a full quarter of the damage. WE were second and 3rd highest damage dealers.
That is why covert ops are good ships.
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Boomey Pootra
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Posted - 2009.02.12 07:01:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Actually they can be great for carebears too. No one has mentioned they are hands down the fastest travel (not sublight although they can be quite speedy there too) ship in EVE. If you need to go 20 jumps nothing short of clone jumping will get you there faster. They align very quickly and, more importantly, have a warp speed of 13.5 AU/s. They cross 100 AU jaunts across a system in seconds.
They are not the only ships which can travel at 13.5AU/s. The tackling interceptors such as the Malediction and Ares do that as well, and align faster to boot. Of course, they can't warp cloaked, and probably have less useful functions outside courier.
The Astrometrics skills take just over 3 weeks or so to skill up to level IV across the board, so it's not that big an investment. Skilling them to V is a different story, but by then you'll know if you want to or not. It's certainly something worth trying if there's no one else in your corp who trains it - even in an industrial corp, scanning down a nice juicy gravimetric site full of asteroids will do wonders for your corp.
While you'll never make really good ISK in highsec (best you can get is probably C-type medium stuff, iirc) but it's still worth something if you get lucky (A C-type med armour repairer can go for over 100mil), and in the event your corp or alliance does start to move into 0.0 you'll be well-placed to contribute a lot to the corp in terms of scouting, cyno and exploration duties, making you one of the most invaluable members of the corp.
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echohead
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Posted - 2009.02.12 07:08:00 -
[41]
The alliance tourny showed what packs of stealth bombers can do. Like allmost all ships if you have a plan for it you can make it work well.
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Jalif
Black Sinisters
Freedom of Elbas
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Posted - 2009.02.12 10:50:00 -
[42]
Originally by: echohead
The alliance tourny showed what packs of stealth bombers can do. Like allmost all ships if you have a plan for it you can make it work well.
7
Very well said sir
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Eka Lawrencia
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.12 12:02:00 -
[43]
Originally by: echohead
The alliance tourny showed what packs of stealth bombers can do. Like allmost all ships if you have a plan for it you can make it work well.
Link?
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Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
Minmatar
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
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Posted - 2009.02.12 12:05:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: xxxak
Two types of ships can warped cloaked, Covert Ops and Recons.
Three kinds.
CovOps, Recons and Blockade Runners.
True since QR, and the +2 warp strength got moved from the blockade runner to the DST.
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Originally by: Paper
Rock's fine, nerf Scissors
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