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Why Flying a T3 Might be Worth the SP Loss Risk:

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N'tek alar	Posted - 2009.02.11 17:47:00 - [31] Originally by: Zel Nughat well if this is how it works, i mean, losing only one trained level, then for me its fine and dandy, i though that you would lose the skill completely and had to buy the skill book again, jeez No, It's one level, of one of the subsystem skills, all of which are rank 1 skills.
Bigpimping Pimp Inc.	Posted - 2009.02.11 17:58:00 - [32] Edited by: Bigpimping on 11/02/2009 18:02:33 changed my mind, retraining in any form does still annoy me. ________________________________________ He who pimps, is God...
Plumpy McPudding	Posted - 2009.02.11 18:00:00 - [33] I couldn't care less if I lost an hour of training time, a loss of skill is a loss of skill. I don't feel like retraining a level 5 skill just because of some stupid event that is out of my control like loss of internet connection or something. Nah, I think I will pass. Thank you anyway CCP and I wish everyone else the best of luck while flying them. __________________________ Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite! Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Chip Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream.
Farrellus Cameron Sturmgrenadier Inc Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.02.11 18:19:00 - [34] I think it would be worth it because your enemies won't know what's coming at them. With other ships, most pilots can size up what they will be up against pretty quickly based on the ship type. Vagabond - Speed, Deimos - Glass Cannon, Ishtar - Drone boat, Cerberus - missile boat, Eagle - sniper. But with the tech3 ship, people will have a harder time figuring out what kind of setup you will be running because it will be hard to determine the stats of the ships from a quick glance. Obviously people will get adept at associating certain looks with certain types of ships because of the module look and what bonuses it comes with. But it will still be difficult to know exactly what to do to counter. ----------------------------------------------------
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas	Posted - 2009.02.11 18:19:00 - [35] Skills over time increase and open up new ways to enjoy eve. The skill loss isn't so devastating as the time spent retraining it. It takes away from time you cold be training for something new. I will not fly a t3 ship so long as the mechanics are this way. I won't take time away from every other part of eve just to support a t3 habit. I suppose I'll have to make due without it. Maybe t4 will alleviate the flaw in this technology that causes skillpoint loss.
Nomad Storm The Wandering Path	Posted - 2009.02.11 18:23:00 - [36] Originally by: Ris Dnalor Skills over time increase and open up new ways to enjoy eve. The skill loss isn't so devastating as the time spent retraining it. It takes away from time you cold be training for something new. I will not fly a t3 ship so long as the mechanics are this way. I won't take time away from every other part of eve just to support a t3 habit. I suppose I'll have to make due without it. Maybe t4 will alleviate the flaw in this technology that causes skillpoint loss. More whines about skill loss please, maybe it will bring prices down
Mr Ignitious R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.02.11 18:26:00 - [37] Originally by: Raindeth Originally by: Illioe Originally by: Jason Sweet Ill still fly 1 even with the sp loss If you keep your skills at level 1 you only lose 7 minutes of training time So if you dont want to risk as much just keep them at low levels but if you want to train them to max then that is your choice This exactly. Everyone is stuck in the mentality that they need everything at 5. You don't. So, you're going to spend like 810 million isk on a ship and fly it with level 1 skills?? Good luck with that. source on numbers plz? Originally by: CCP Zulupark WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas	Posted - 2009.02.11 18:29:00 - [38] Originally by: Nomad Storm Originally by: Ris Dnalor Skills over time increase and open up new ways to enjoy eve. The skill loss isn't so devastating as the time spent retraining it. It takes away from time you cold be training for something new. I will not fly a t3 ship so long as the mechanics are this way. I won't take time away from every other part of eve just to support a t3 habit. I suppose I'll have to make due without it. Maybe t4 will alleviate the flaw in this technology that causes skillpoint loss. More whines about skill loss please, maybe it will bring prices down Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't care if they put it in or not. I'm just stating my thoughts and plans regarding the issue. If there is skill loss It simplifies my budget. If there is not skill loss then well I can see me spending a whole lot of isk here real soon lol.
KarGard Agent-Orange	Posted - 2009.02.11 18:32:00 - [39] As someone who has accidently picked the wrong clone and then gotten podded I can say losing sp is incredibly aggravating. A mechanic that engrains skill loss in to the game is just terrible.
Dr Resheph Amarr YOU ARE NOW READING THIS LOUDLY	Posted - 2009.02.11 18:36:00 - [40] Having a better ship isn't worth the skillpoint loss. Doing something no other ship can might be. But skillpoint loss would still be a giant "F*$% YOU" to veteran players.
Khrillian Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.02.11 18:40:00 - [41] SP's are basically just worth the cost of running an account to train them (300mil ISK/month), plus some extra for your time. All this will do is create yet another incentive to have 7 super specialized alts instead of a main.
Corduroy Rab Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2009.02.11 18:41:00 - [42] A corp mate of mine on sisi the other day got an EM resist over 100% on the ship he flew...now I am guessing this is a bug but I am sure that if true many would be willing to "risk" their ships The Proof
Baby Dawl	Posted - 2009.02.11 21:10:00 - [43] Losing skill points is a serious turn off....HOWEVER when all else fails, redistribute your attributes and train them back several times faster then when you originally trained them! In fact...the redistribution of skill points will somewhat soften the whole tech3 sp lossage....making flying tech3 ships worth the sp loss and maybe a good, new challenge for the hard core pvper who's becoming a little bored and needs a few new challenges....
Katy Karkinoff Minmatar Psycho Chicks	Posted - 2009.02.11 21:32:00 - [44] Originally by: Corduroy Rab A corp mate of mine on sisi the other day got an EM resist over 100% on the ship he flew...now I am guessing this is a bug but I am sure that if true many would be willing to "risk" their ships The Proof while i see you're "guessing its a bug" and appreciate you recognize that it PROBABLY is, we (the eve community) NEED to remember its the fapping test server. All the T3 stuff they have up on there is nothing more than a teaser, I mean the amarr ones aren't modeled yet and 1/2 of them don't have any distinctions between them at all. SiSi != TQ, especially right now. People need to keep this in mind. It would probably help tone down the terrible quality of threads lately... Honestly I wouldn't be astonished if within the month some moron says "Carriers are 100isk on the test server!! WTF!! WHat is going to happen on TQ when this hits??!"
Raindeth FACTION Inc.	Posted - 2009.02.11 22:09:00 - [45] Originally by: Mr Ignitious Originally by: Raindeth Originally by: Illioe Originally by: Jason Sweet Ill still fly 1 even with the sp loss If you keep your skills at level 1 you only lose 7 minutes of training time So if you dont want to risk as much just keep them at low levels but if you want to train them to max then that is your choice This exactly. Everyone is stuck in the mentality that they need everything at 5. You don't. So, you're going to spend like 810 million isk on a ship and fly it with level 1 skills?? Good luck with that. source on numbers plz? I totally pulled it out of one of my orifices. - just a guess that doesn't matter cause they're modular ships. (ie. "Prices may vary") and in fact, the more expensive ships will probably require more skillpoints to pilot. The "alt" factor does look like it may play a role though. It's no secret that CCP develops many game mechanics with the thought in mind to get people who are already playing to make more characters (mining, cynoing caps, etc) Not only is there redistribution of attributes coming in this expansion, but these ships require VERY little skill to fly (compared to what you'd expect based on the difference between T1 and T2) AND also coming in this Apocrifa is HALVED experience point training time for characters under 1.6 million SP. So, your "T3 Alt"(tm) gets blasted under 1.6 million SP and retrains a skill at 2x speed with stats set high for the skill needed. Personally, I'd still rather see a mini super-weapon on there.
Visceroth Minmatar The Athiest Syndicate	Posted - 2009.02.11 22:21:00 - [46] As for the "Why train it beyond lvl 1" questions, who knows maybe more powerful mods will come out that require level 3 or level 5. Just a suggestion. The loss of skillpoints is a touchy one. They don't want T3 to become the normal(I believe anyway). But everyone forgets what this game is about risk/reward. Don't wanna take the risk? than don't reap the rewards.
Corduroy Rab Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2009.02.11 23:40:00 - [47] Originally by: Katy Karkinoff Originally by: Corduroy Rab A corp mate of mine on sisi the other day got an EM resist over 100% on the ship he flew...now I am guessing this is a bug but I am sure that if true many would be willing to "risk" their ships The Proof while i see you're "guessing its a bug" and appreciate you recognize that it PROBABLY is, we (the eve community) NEED to remember its the fapping test server. All the T3 stuff they have up on there is nothing more than a teaser, I mean the amarr ones aren't modeled yet and 1/2 of them don't have any distinctions between them at all. SiSi != TQ, especially right now. People need to keep this in mind. It would probably help tone down the terrible quality of threads lately... Honestly I wouldn't be astonished if within the month some moron says "Carriers are 100isk on the test server!! WTF!! WHat is going to happen on TQ when this hits??!" Hi Katy master of the blatantly obvious of overreaction specialist of the highest degree.
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2009.02.12 00:18:00 - [48] Z3 wont get a Isogen-5 powered superweapon. That's just silly. Further - that loss of a skill level - if the skills really will be rank 1 this ain't such a horrible loss. Training skills to lvl 5 is rarely worth it. So most of these skills will be lvl 4 max. Loosing lvl 4 takes a couple days or less (implants) to re-train. If it was a lvl 3 before the loss you'll have to re-train for a few hours. (overnight) --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back! Laptop, NVidia7900GS, Ubuntu 8.04, WINE
Icarus Flame Amarr The Tuskers	Posted - 2009.02.12 00:43:00 - [49] This thread's OP is the worst OP I have ever come across. No exceptions. That said, the content in the thread itself is pretty damn bad. The only sensible person so far was the guy questioning why everyone thought T3 would remain as expensive as dreads. It's obvious that CCP could not possibly have designed a ship class the size of CRUISERS the parts and materials of which would take so much effort to obtain that the market stabilization point would be 1.5 Billion ISK per ship. I mean, come on. The sleeper NPC's in FD-MLJ are almost certainly the top end of the spectrum, or even higher, for testing purposes. The ships themselves may involve a great deal of labor to build initially, but the supply lines will be set up. And the material cost of something the size of a cruiser with stats no better than a T2 cruiser cannot possible be more than a T1 BS. There's no way. So with all of that said, I'll say as I already have in another thread. I expect the final average cost of building a T3 cruiser to be on par with the cost of a T1 battlecruiser. CCP has not set out to give us UBERWTFOMGPWN super ships. They have only set out to create versatility. Also, OP, diaf.
Raindeth FACTION Inc.	Posted - 2009.02.12 01:06:00 - [50] Originally by: Icarus Flame This thread's OP is the worst OP I have ever come across. No exceptions. ... Also, OP, diaf. \o/ Apparently my 17 threads in the last 4 years really bugged you!
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2009.02.12 01:16:00 - [51] Originally by: Illioe This exactly. Everyone is stuck in the mentality that they need everything at 5. You don't. You need racial cruiser at 5 to fly the T3 ship, and some weapon skills at 5 in order to gain access the T2 weapons. There are lots of skills that must be level 5 if you want to be effective at the roles that require those skills. The SP loss drawback must be CCP's attempt to get even more people to sign up for new accounts to train alts. No way will I risk one of my level 5 warfare specialist skills for this. While I'm thinking along these lines, what the hell would happen if you get your T3 ship popped while wearing a warfare spec implant, and you lose that level 5, or cybernetics 5? Does your pod and clone go pop, too, when your T3 ship pops? *-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then* --**
Bimjo Caldari Domination. Force Of Evil	Posted - 2009.02.12 01:21:00 - [52] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Illioe This exactly. Everyone is stuck in the mentality that they need everything at 5. You don't. You need racial cruiser at 5 to fly the T3 ship, and some weapon skills at 5 in order to gain access the T2 weapons. There are lots of skills that must be level 5 if you want to be effective at the roles that require those skills. The SP loss drawback must be CCP's attempt to get even more people to sign up for new accounts to train alts. No way will I risk one of my level 5 warfare specialist skills for this. While I'm thinking along these lines, what the hell would happen if you get your T3 ship popped while wearing a warfare spec implant, and you lose that level 5, or cybernetics 5? Does your pod and clone go pop, too, when your T3 ship pops? you skipped past most of the posts didn't you ? you only lose SP in the new T3 sub-system skills,as far as we have been told they all have a X1 multiplier,meaning a few minutes from L0 to L1, less than an hour from L1 to L2,basically set them all to L2 and if you lose a T3 ship,you can get in to another immediately,whilst spending less than an hour raising the reduced skill to L2 again ====================
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2009.02.12 01:23:00 - [53] Originally by: Bimjo you only lose SP in the new T3 sub-system skills,as far as we have been told **! It's pre-nerfed as usual! -- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --**
B1FF	Posted - 2009.02.12 18:25:00 - [54] Originally by: Ortela Devereaux You don't get it, do you? There are no bonuses associated with the subsystem skills: it's just a matter whether you can jump in your next T3 ship after losing one or not. If you fly with everything on 1, you'll have to re-train 5x5 minutes to get back into one. If you got everything on 5, you'll go down to 4,3,2,1,0 and THEN have to retrain. For the ship itself, there's no difference in performance whether you got Subsystem X at 1 or 5. (Seems that way, at least... and it would make sense, wouldn't it?) That's nonsensical. It's rank 1. Level 1 takes 7 minutes. You'll have it trained before you have a new ship. Why spend 35 minutes training 2 let alone 4-5 days training 5?
Janu Hull Caldari Terra Incognita Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.02.13 01:33:00 - [55] All the T3 fanboys need to have a LONG look at the Integrated and Augmented drones before getting too excited. They're not even a fraction as annoying to manufacture, and yet I don't see too many of them floating around. And those that are, are far too expensive to be used in the arena where they'd make the most impact, PvP, and the parts for them don't drop often enough to saturate the market with enough stock to bring the cost in line to be worth the advantage of multiple damage types. I think it'll be a good six months before you see more than one or two showboats in T3s, and the better part of another year before they make any kind of major splash in PvP at the roaming gang level. The logistics of the material gathering is simply too irritating. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.02.13 01:40:00 - [56] Originally by: Janu Hull All the T3 fanboys need to have a LONG look at the Integrated and Augmented drones before getting too excited. They're not even a fraction as annoying to manufacture, and yet I don't see too many of them floating around. And those that are, are far too expensive to be used in the arena where they'd make the most impact, PvP, and the parts for them don't drop often enough to saturate the market with enough stock to bring the cost in line to be worth the advantage of multiple damage types. I think it'll be a good six months before you see more than one or two showboats in T3s, and the better part of another year before they make any kind of major splash in PvP at the roaming gang level. The logistics of the material gathering is simply too irritating. when i was in IRC i didnt know many people doing the exploration for it because we were just mining merxcoit the entire time i was there that might be the awnser to that wormholes will be everywhere not just in one perticual place This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
permion	Posted - 2009.02.13 04:35:00 - [57] Yes the plan is to have a wormhole within 3 to 5 jumps of anyone place in the universe.
Gold Seraph	Posted - 2009.02.13 08:40:00 - [58] Just another pre-mature prediction amongst the many but: T3 ships will be incredibly powerful, whether as a tank, nano-blitzer, or gun ship. T3 ships will be incredibly expensive at first, and will then stabilize at just extremely expensive. The skill loss will only be worth it to those hardcore enough to even consider flying these ~1 bil isk (wild speculation, I actually expect it will be much more than this once fit) ships into combat, and will be called primary at the onset of every engagement because each ship kill is like podding a pilot w/o an appropriate clone (the skill loss is complete bulls**t btw) Level 5 skills in a subsystem will be extremely rare, and so will level 2.
Mors Magne M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.02.13 09:21:00 - [59] Losing skill points is a bad idea. Flying your ultra expensive T3 ship with five low levels will mean they perform at less than their expensive value. Maybe fully maxed T2 ships will perform better The NEW M.Corp Data Hub - Check it out!
Shadowsword Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.02.13 09:26:00 - [60] Originally by: DeadDuck Most of the threats will come from NPC's that will not be a match for a gang. You're sure about that? I suggest you hop on Sisi and ask a Dev to spawn a "tough but not toughtest" sleeper spawn for you, then try it with a few gang mates. When you'll see those npc scrambling and neuting you, while having passive-drake like tanks and gank-blasterthron like dps, while changing targets to kill your drones, focus on your logistic ships first and so on, you'll understand. If it stay that way, aquiring parts for T3 ships will be an expensive proposition. ------------------------------------------

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