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Why do mining barges suck so much?

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Julia Steaz	Posted - 2009.02.12 04:33:00 - [1] In what kind of upside down world does a Battleship mine more than a Mining Barge? I mean -- there isn't even MINING in the name Battleship, like there is in the name Mining Barge. But somehow, a Hyperion with 8 x Miner II (750m3/min), is pulling more than a Retriever with 2 x Strip Miners (613m3/min). The difference being that the Receiver has horrible shielding. What's my point? The Retrieve sucks. Plain and simple. All Mining Barges are useless. Once you get the good one, that requires Mining Barge Lv5, you say -- f**k it, I'll just get the Hulk instead. Mining Barges are a useless series of ships.
Khemul Zula Amarr Keisen Trade League	Posted - 2009.02.12 04:37:00 - [2] I just lit a hamster on fire because of this thread. That is all. ------ I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.
Dari Anoh Amarr Anoh Shavar	Posted - 2009.02.12 04:43:00 - [3] thinks someone got bored and found a copy of "Forum Trolling for Dummies - The Art of Getting Kittens Killed for Pleasure"
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.02.12 04:44:00 - [4] The retriever is the entry level mining barge you use on your way to mining barge 5 and the covetor is what you use whilst you save up for the hulk or for dangerous times like a wardec so you can keep mining. Nothing moar nothing less. Bs miners also have alot of micro to deal with as miner II have a one minute cycle unlike a strip miners three minutes. Another point is the cargobay amount as a bs miner will have to constantly shift ore out of his tiny cargohold to keep from messing up the cycles and losing excess ore due to running out of space. Plus plenty moar that I'm too lazy to list. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
addiction21	Posted - 2009.02.12 04:46:00 - [5] Originally by: Dari Anoh thinks someone got bored and found a copy of "Forum Trolling for Dummies - The Art of Getting Kittens Killed for Pleasure" http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=996828 Shes been busy
Dr Resheph Amarr YOU ARE NOW READING THIS LOUDLY	Posted - 2009.02.12 04:56:00 - [6] Obvious troll is obvious.
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.02.12 04:56:00 - [7] For mining barges and exhumers to reach maximum yield you need to train to use the modulated strip miner II and the associated crystals for the ore you are mining. You should also move to the covetor as quickly as possible. It offers 1 more strip miner, slightly larger cargohold, more drone space. The barge/exhumers do allow a bit more casual interaction with their larger holds and longer cycle times, a battleship can keep you very busy mining. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.02.12 05:10:00 - [8] Why do mining barges suck so much ? Because that's what they were designed for, TO SUCK ROCK _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Agent Unknown Caldari Fist of Eargon	Posted - 2009.02.12 05:18:00 - [9] Originally by: Akita T Why do mining barges suck so much ? Because that's what they were designed for, TO SUCK ROCK Ahahaha...hah...yeah... They're extremely squishy but replaceable...although the T2 miners tend to shoot up the price a bit (meaning, two of them will cost more than the ship itself). ----------------------------------- "What can go wrong, will go wrong."
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2009.02.12 05:38:00 - [10] ITT we compare one of the best non-barge mining setups with one of the worst barges to complain about them. Tune in tomorrow when we prove barges are OP by comparing their DPS to that of a frigate
Agent Unknown Caldari Fist of Eargon	Posted - 2009.02.12 05:41:00 - [11] Originally by: Cambarus ITT we compare one of the best non-barge mining setups with one of the worst barges to complain about them. Tune in tomorrow when we prove barges are OP by comparing their DPS to that of a frigate If only mining lasers could be used as weapons.... ----------------------------------- "What can go wrong, will go wrong."
Karath Piki Ordo Quaesitoris	Posted - 2009.02.12 05:44:00 - [12] Hmmm, did someone pony up for another dose from our favorite mercenary forum troll? Or is this someone else showing off?
Stupid caldari	Posted - 2009.02.12 06:07:00 - [13] Originally by: Dr Resheph Obvious troll is obvious. Lol yeah
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2009.02.12 06:25:00 - [14] Originally by: Agent Unknown Originally by: Cambarus ITT we compare one of the best non-barge mining setups with one of the worst barges to complain about them. Tune in tomorrow when we prove barges are OP by comparing their DPS to that of a frigate If only mining lasers could be used as weapons.... I must be some kind of hacker, all my barges have drone bays...
Etria Issen Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.12 06:41:00 - [15] Someone should mention the Veldatar.
Nifan	Posted - 2009.02.12 07:44:00 - [16] Originally by: Dari Anoh thinks someone got bored and found a copy of "Forum Trolling for Dummies - The Art of Getting Kittens Killed for Pleasure" *Thinks someone found a way to say troll post in a troll post and feel good about doing it
Ambien Torca	Posted - 2009.02.12 07:48:00 - [17] To be honest it¦s still silly that you can mine more in a battleship than mid-grade barge. CCP oughta take a good look at mining anyway, it¦s quite boring and also not too profitable in most places.
Ancy Denaries Caldari Solaris Operations	Posted - 2009.02.12 08:13:00 - [18] The training is roughly equivelant. Why should the mid-range barge automatically mine more than someone who spent a lot of time skilling up to a battleship and want to do some "on the side" mining? And seriously, I prefer a barge ANY day over a battleship. I have enough RSI as it is. Oh and...Hulk anyone? Try to outmine THAT, or even a Covetor, with a battleship. I dare you. ----- Why doesn't anyone ever read the forums before posting? EVE is a PvP game. Adaptation is your survival.
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2009.02.12 08:18:00 - [19] Originally by: Ancy Denaries Why should the mid-range barge automatically mine more than someone who spent a lot of time skilling up to a battleship and want to do some "on the side" mining? Because the barge is a highly specialized ship made for that one purpose only - and still can't do it any better than a ship built for something completely different. The more important question, though, is - why does the Procurer exist at all? -------------------------------------------------- I'm a rich person. How I know? I can afford to be a miner.
Borun Tal Minmatar Virtual Rock Industries	Posted - 2009.02.12 08:31:00 - [20] It's all relative, baby... One Brutix sporting 5x or 6x Miner II, expanded cargoholds, cargo opts, filling up and dumping into GSC's versus a Covetor or Retriever with strippers jet-canning to a Mammoth or Hulk... One Exequror fitted correctly can have cargo space upwards of 2k m3 (same as unfit Retriever), for a lot less, same wait time, and better kill rate on npc pirates.... Gotta look at what works for you, what your goals are, and what you have the patience for. Escorts vs a Covertor launching medium drones, fleets to burn out Veldspar belts, or mine what you need to do your weeks worth of manufacturing or invention, plus a couple hours of ratting for salvage to game extra coin or salvage for invention? Only a ******* will tell you "mine and sell veldspar!"... And McDonalds only sells pasty, tiny cheesburgers and titanium-reinforced Filet-o-Fish... Don't ask the jaded 53-year veterans of Eve, and ignore the noobs with more hot air than real ideas. :)
Ancy Denaries Caldari Solaris Operations	Posted - 2009.02.12 08:32:00 - [21] Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind Because the barge is a highly specialized ship made for that one purpose only - and still can't do it any better than a ship built for something completely different. Anti-RSI reasons. Larger cargohold and 1/3 the dragndrop. Not good enough for you? Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind The more important question, though, is - why does the Procurer exist at all? THAT, my friend, is a VERY valid question. As much valid as to why the Covetor requires Astrogeology V, and not IV. It makes the Hulk nothing but an ISK question since the actual training between Covetor and Hulk is less than a day. ----- Why doesn't anyone ever read the forums before posting? EVE is a PvP game. Adaptation is your survival.
Zey Nadar Gallente Stormwatch Galactic	Posted - 2009.02.12 08:42:00 - [22] Edited by: Zey Nadar on 12/02/2009 08:44:30 Originally by: Julia Steaz What's my point? The Retrieve sucks. Plain and simple. All Mining Barges are useless. Once you get the good one, that requires Mining Barge Lv5, you say -- f**k it, I'll just get the Hulk instead. Mining Barges are a useless series of ships. k All true. Mining barges suck. However since getting to those ships requires learning mining barges as well.... its a ccp plot. :)
Silvana Kor'ah	Posted - 2009.02.12 09:52:00 - [23] Edited by: Silvana Kor''ah on 12/02/2009 09:53:57 mining barges are ridiculous, as are exhumers. CCP is ridiculous, and as long as they keep bringing new stuff into the game before fixing the current content, they'll ever be. You don't understand? Aye, check: all it takes are 5 T1 fitted destroyers to kill a 160m uninsurable, slow, defenseless exhumer in 0.7 security. (yes i know, this fit suxx. fit it perfectly and it'll take 7 or 8 dessis, so what?) Not to mention those guys are -10 pirates But lets first take a quick look at barges. - They all have 1 mid slot, right? reason? To fit a rock scanner, aye? Strip miners have a long cycle, you might wanna know how much ore is left. Ok, and how many options does that leave you exactly? Fitting a tank for 0.0 mining? Buy a hulk Fitting some tackle to enjoy ore thieves in highsec? Buy a hulk and risk 100m vs. a 200k rifter ffs, you can't even fit an afterburner thus not mine without having proper bookmarks with some roids in 15km range ... And why would one bother skilling for an expensive, non defendable exhumer? No one will ever suicide gank a battleship! This beeing said, T2 miners have a shorter cycle, thus beeing much more useable in empire with all that "mined to oblivion belts". Not to mention that it actually takes less time to go for a BS and T2 miners, and you can also run missions or pvp with it.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2009.02.12 09:55:00 - [24] the suck of a mining barge is directly compared to the amount they blow...up My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2009.02.12 10:16:00 - [25] If you skill straight for mining without engaging combat ships, battleships aren't even an option. So for a character purely skilled in mining and industry, yeah, there's a use for all the levels of ships. But for anyone with battleship skills, all exhumers have a reasonable purpose, and so do Covetors, being: Hulk: Best "general" mining ship in-game (sets you back 100-160 mil if you lose it) Mackinaw: Best Ice miner. Skiff: Best Mercoxit miner. Covetor: A "good" miner, needs a combat support in 0.0 though. That said, if you lose one with pretty basic fits, you're only out 5-10 million because it's fully insurable (in Jita, cost 19 mil, 6 mil to insure for 20 mil payout, Strip miner IIs and a mining upgrade) Big difference between a covetor and a hulk, and why you'd choose a covetor over a hulk lies in the risk. If there's a high chance you'll lose the ship, take out a covetor. Reduced income sure, but at worst the hulk might mine twice as fast as the covetor, but needs 10 times as much effort to replace if you lose it.
Rhatar Khurin Minmatar pSyChOTIC CareBears BrightSpark Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.12 11:10:00 - [26] Retrievers are ok, it's the single laser T1 barge that stinks, it has virtually no point to exist.
Silvana Kor'ah	Posted - 2009.02.12 11:21:00 - [27] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs text dude ... with the current suicide ganks, it doesn't make sense to field a hulk in highsec. You'll have to mine like 30-40 hours to replace it and you can't possibly defend it! Also, if you need combat support for your 0.0 covetor, why wouldn't you bring hulks if you have battleships covering your ass? If you mine 0.0 and watch local, stay alligned to a ss or pos, you are in fact much much more safer than in empire. Besides, the skill requiremtens for the covetor don't make sense as well. mining barge 5 takes like 20+ days to go from a retriever to covetor, and you only need some more 3 days to fly the ultimate hulk. nonsense! The simple fact is: there is simply no reason why mining barges are restricted to 1 mid slot, thus rendering them completey unflexible and worthless. only purpose left: raw material for T2 + max. 25 days as a barge till one can fly a hulk
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.02.12 11:26:00 - [28] …because they're just glorified, stripped-down, very very very clumsy cruisers. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2009.02.12 11:29:00 - [29] Quote: dude ... with the current suicide ganks, it doesn't make sense to field a hulk in highsec. You'll have to mine like 30-40 hours to replace it and you can't possibly defend it! Get out of [insert hub system where every man and his dog mines]. I always mine in a hulk in high sec and I've never been suicide ganked. Quote: Also, if you need combat support for your 0.0 covetor, why wouldn't you bring hulks if you have battleships covering your ass? If you mine 0.0 and watch local, stay alligned to a ss or pos, you are in fact much much more safer than in empire. Read what I wrote again. a combat support. A = One. One battleship to clean the rats around the place and make the most of sitting in the system. If it gets out of hand and you lose it, then no big a deal. To be frank though, it sounds like you've never heard of ninja mining in an environment of: - Hostile territory. - No POS. You only speak of mining under ideal conditions. Quote: Besides, the skill requiremtens for the covetor don't make sense as well. mining barge 5 takes like 20+ days to go from a retriever to covetor, and you only need some more 3 days to fly the ultimate hulk. nonsense! So during that 20 days you're stuck with retriever and procurer. Then, if you're high risk mining, go the covetor. If you're low risk, go a hulk. It's pretty simple.
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.02.12 11:30:00 - [30] Isn't it their designed task to suck roids? I.e. be happy the suck so much, working as intended. - - - Originally by: CCP Prism X I can invent ways to get free candy for you where the implementation is so bad that you'd never want to see candy again in your whole life.
TimMc Gallente Extradition	Posted - 2009.02.12 11:34:00 - [31] Price comparison? Anyway BS needs more skills than a retriever.
Wilson Klime Caldari Caldari Naval Shipyards	Posted - 2009.02.12 11:43:00 - [32] Originally by: Zeba The retriever is the entry level mining barge you use on your way to mining barge 5 and the covetor is what you use whilst you save up for the hulk or for dangerous times like a wardec so you can keep mining. Nothing moar nothing less. Bs miners also have alot of micro to deal with as miner II have a one minute cycle unlike a strip miners three minutes. Another point is the cargobay amount as a bs miner will have to constantly shift ore out of his tiny cargohold to keep from messing up the cycles and losing excess ore due to running out of space. Plus plenty moar that I'm too lazy to list. QFT Having to set up the cycles of my Rokh to accommodate (ATM) 978m2/min into a 500m2 cargo bay is a pain but, why not use a ship (that costs more that a Hulk BTW) that has the ability to mine, while I train towards a Hulk. Battleship miners can't AFK mine like barge miners do. Also, apart from cargo space there is also the greater range factor that strip miners have over lasers. The OP probably doesn't know this but apparently @ the beginning of eve there was no such thing as a mining barge/exhumer and people had to use turret based ships to mine, of which Battleships were the best. Originally by: Julia Steaz In what kind of upside down world does a Battleship mine more than a Mining Barge? I mean -- there isn't even MINING in the name Battleship, like there is in the name Mining Barge. Under this logic does that mean that my Rokh is OK, as we all know that "rocks" are an integral part of mining.
Silvana Kor'ah	Posted - 2009.02.12 12:05:00 - [33] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Quote: Get out of [insert hub system where every man and his dog mines]. I always mine in a hulk in high sec and I've never been suicide ganked. killer argument! both of em! Quote: a combat support. A = One. One battleship to clean the rats around the place and make the most of sitting in the system. If it gets out of hand and you lose it, then no big a deal. To be frank though, it sounds like you've never heard of ninja mining in an environment of: - Hostile territory. - No POS. So, if one would have the great idea of ninja mine in hostile territory (didn't realize 0.0 belts were so crowded people had even to consider about such), he should then take a BS and covetor instead of a solo hulk? This beeing said, you do realize that a covetor and a mate in a bs will cut your income drastically, do you? Quote: So during that 20 days you're stuck with retriever and procurer. Then, if you're high risk mining, go the covetor. If you're low risk, go a hulk. It's pretty simple. Yes, it's simple but you seem not to understand it though. Really pal, this argument is nonsense either. Or would you go like "exequror needs gallente cruiser 4, vexor and thorax 5. If you're low risk pvp'ing, fly the vexor/thorax; high risk take the ishtar/deimos?
Ralitge boyter Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.12 12:17:00 - [34] Mining barges are great of course some battle ships with the ability to fit a lot more lasers manage to out mine the low end barges... just like some of the good tackeling frigates beat some of the non specialized cruisers at tackeling. It makes sense doesn't it that a high end ship of class A can beat a low end ship of class B. That is why there is 3 more ships that are more specialized at mining then your example Retriever. So why have the Retriever in the first place, well to be able to fly a Exhumer you need to spend a lot of time training Mining barges and it would be quite silly of CCP not to provide you with something that can mine quite fast already when you are nearing the half way point of that training. But a Battle ship is better... so as a miner I have no reason to train for a battle ship now do I because I mine and do not do battle. But a battle ship has more staying power then a mining barge, yeah it does so what... in most cases you are better of mining in your Mining barge then you are in a Exhumer, simply because of replacement value. But would a battle ship not be better? Maybe if as a miner you don't mind training for a battle ship then it might be better at this but still getting a Hulk to mine most ores is far better then any battle ship will ever do and for people that go that route CCP provided a ship that can almost match the best mining battleship out there which is just a good thing. ------------------------------------------- Should you disagree with me, well I guess that is because I disagree with you. If you have a problem with that please feel free not to tell me.

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