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spaceinator
R0GUE DR0NEZbzztz-011010
0
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Posted - 2012.04.23 04:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
So i was unsure if there was a topic already created for this, but its more of a question to the developers than anything (mostly wanting their opinion), and before i start, i dont want anyone being like "this is a stupid idea GTFO" or anything like that, i would like to keep this civil, and actual decent non-raging thread.
So my proposal/question is that instead of PLEX's giving players game time, i was thinking of giving skill points/instant levels, at a cost (to be determined by the developers), as to a players perspective and the companies, it would seem logical, as in EVE it takes a long time to get anywhere, and for new beginners, in my opinion drives them away from the game, as they realise exactly how long they are going to have to play it before they get decent/good at the game/ be able to do high level missions/good mining/manufacturing/etc. Changing the PLEX system/adding in a new skill points system would be advantageous to both the player (being able to get decent faster, and still be able to enjoy the game more), and to the developers/the company (it allows the continuing purchase of skill points (making more money), and if the PLEX system is changed, it means that players will actually have to pay for gametime) i see it as a win/win situation for everyone.
I know a common issue that the old players will have with this, as they have had to do all the training, so why should other players get it better than them, well i kinda agree, but the developers want to bring more players to the game. Another issue a lot of the old players will have with this, is that they are able to make the 500mill-ish isk that it costs to buy a PLEX, and they would complain that they will have to start paying for the game again, and to be honest, if you want to play a free game, go try a game that is intended to be free (idk but star trek online is free), because in all honesty people who arent prepared to pay the costs to play a game shouldn't be here (just my opinion).
Please feel free to comment, but again, please keep the rage away, i know there is arguments for and against, ive tried to briefly outline them. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1301
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 04:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
spaceinator wrote:i would like to keep this civil, and actual decent non-raging thread.
You're an idiot. There you go, that's far more civil an answer than this idea deserves.
Seriously, go read any one of the dozens of other threads about SP to learn why this is such a horrible idea. If you still can't figure it out, maybe that lobotomy you seem to have had was a bad idea. |
spaceinator
R0GUE DR0NEZbzztz-011010
0
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Posted - 2012.04.23 04:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
i would prefer, instead of you being a rude and arrogant *******, to explain why its a horrible idea. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1302
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Posted - 2012.04.23 04:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
spaceinator wrote:i would prefer, instead of you being a rude and arrogant *******, to explain why its a horrible idea.
And I would prefer that you stop and read the countless rebuttals against the same bad idea before posting it all over again. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin.
Black Legion.
410
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Posted - 2012.04.23 05:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
spaceinator wrote:i would prefer, instead of you being a rude and arrogant *******, to explain why its a horrible idea.
people stamp their feet and get furiously spacemad about "pay2win inmplications", "eve DEMANDS patience", "no instant gratification" etc.
meanwhile, we have the character bazaar, where you can quite easily convert plex to isk to SP and this is totally reasonable and not p2w because
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Stigman Zuwadza
Repercussus
RAZOR Alliance
10
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Posted - 2012.04.23 05:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
The trouble with this post is it started out as an idea and then slowly but surely turned into a thinly veiled attempt to mask the OPs utter contemp at those that pay via PLEX, this dastardly plan was an attempt to seed an idea that would eliminating PLEX players.
You should of left your seething disdain out of your post, it may of got more support ....nooooooooot. 
I think Eve players soon understand the time investment of Eve, even if it is sometimes immensely fustrating.
Onwards and sideways. o7
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
572
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Posted - 2012.04.23 06:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Quote:So i was unsure if there was a topic already created for this,
Your first mistake. When in doubt, run a search. This topic has been beaten to death.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=94210
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=86481
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1098962#post1098962
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78809
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=962209#post962209
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=53185
Quote:its more of a question to the developers than anything (mostly wanting their opinion),
Second mistake. You actually expect a DEV to respond. They never do... especially not in this forum subsection (the last serious DEV post here that I can remember was well over a year or two ago... and I believe it was in reference to the idea of "hive ships" and how EVE's coding would not allow multiple players in the same ship)
Quote:in EVE it takes a long time to get anywhere, and for new beginners, in my opinion drives them away from the game, as they realise exactly how long they are going to have to play it before they get decent/good at the game/ be able to do high level missions/good mining/manufacturing/etc.
Don't wait. Ever. Even with lacking skills people can make a difference when banded together with others. You don't have to be "good" really... just have a plan. And yes... this is possible because:
- all skills max out at level 5. No matter how long you play the game, you cannot go beyond this limit.
- Only a certain amount of skills apply to any one ship, mod, weapon, and/or specialty at any given time. Just because a vet just got Large Energy Turret to level 5 it doesn't mean that their small turret skills have gotten any better.
- Getting a skill to level 5 only adds on an extra "edge" (2% here, 5% there) at the cost of time. Many people (vets included) will sometimes opt to ignore getting certain specialty skills to level 5 because they don't see the need in having that extra 2 - 5% "edge" when they can train a number of other skills in a different area to level 4.
- Getting a skill to level 4 put you at about 80% of the effectiveness of someone who has the same skill at level 5... get all skills within a specialty to level 4 and you'll be closer to 85 - 90% (which is an easy gap to bridge with the correct mod, weapon, and/or tactics).
- Skills for more "newbie friendly" ships and activities are often the easiest to train for as they have the lowest training multiplier.
- Ships are balanced against each other.
For example: A battleship can potentially instapop a frigate... but the frigate can fly very fast, making it difficult for the battleship's weapons to track, especially at very close range... then again, the battleship can deploy drones to deal with the frigate... and the frigate can shoot the drones down... however the battleship might have a Large Energy Neutralizer fitted to nuke the frigate's capacitor every 24 second... in which case the frigate could use a Small Nosferatu that sucks out capacitor every 3 seconds... etc. etc.
- Specialties are often balanced too. Vets don't want to do the "boring" and/or risky jobs... and lucky enough for newbies, it's easy to train into "boring" and/or risky jobs.
For example: It's relatively easy to climb into a basic T1 mining barge. But it's also boring AND risky (because you have a meager tank). If said newbie were to attach him/herself to a veteran with an Orca, they would gain security by having someone who can haul their ore safely (no more can flipping), someone who could give them bonuses (to mine more or make them more resistant to ganks), someone who can maybe reprocess the ore more efficiently.... and the Vet would gain access to people who are willing to perform a task that he/she might loathe.
Similar things can also be said of hauling too.
Quote:if the PLEX system is changed, it means that players will actually have to pay for gametime) i see it as a win/win situation for everyone.
Someone appears to not understand how the PLEX system works. Basically people who have disposable income are paying the subscriptions of others in exchange for ISK. CCP still gets the same amount of money (and a little bit more) as it would had both players paid RL money and ISK is transferred through the in-game economy, not created.
In all honesty, it's a DEVIOUSLY intelligent way to combat RMT and I'm surprised that other MMOs have not emulated it.
Quote:Another issue a lot of the old players will have with this, is that they are able to make the 500mill-ish isk that it costs to buy a PLEX, and they would complain that they will have to start paying for the game again, and to be honest, if you want to play a free game, go try a game that is intended to be free (idk but star trek online is free),
Weak argument. People are still paying for their subs... just in a different way... and it benefits the economy as a whole by allowing for wealth transference between players for a coveted item: time.
Mfume Apocal wrote:
we have the character bazaar, where you can quite easily convert plex to isk to SP and this is totally reasonable and not p2w because
I do not like the character bazaar. However, there is a market out there fo...
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
spaceinator
R0GUE DR0NEZbzztz-011010
0
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Posted - 2012.04.23 06:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
cheers for the honest and non agressive reponse :), thats all i wanted to know |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
572
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 06:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
spaceinator wrote:cheers for the honest and non agressive reponse :), thats all i wanted to know
"Non agressive?" Damn. Better throw in more "GTFO" and "biomass yourself" and "idea sucks" and all that jazz next time. 
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
189
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Posted - 2012.04.23 08:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:spaceinator wrote:i would prefer, instead of you being a rude and arrogant *******, to explain why its a horrible idea. people stamp their feet and get furiously spacemad about "pay2win inmplications", "eve DEMANDS patience", "no instant gratification" etc. meanwhile, we have the character bazaar, where you can quite easily convert plex to isk to SP and this is totally reasonable and not p2w because
Because someone still had to take the time to skill the characters.
Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Resurrected Darkness
119
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 09:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:spaceinator wrote:i would prefer, instead of you being a rude and arrogant *******, to explain why its a horrible idea. people stamp their feet and get furiously spacemad about "pay2win inmplications", "eve DEMANDS patience", "no instant gratification" etc. meanwhile, we have the character bazaar, where you can quite easily convert plex to isk to SP and this is totally reasonable and not p2w because ...somebody had to make those characters. And for some reason they want to get rid of them.
-á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters
i'm strangely comfortable with it"
-Mittens |
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
366
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Posted - 2012.04.23 12:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
At the moment the way the GTC/PLEX system works is someone buys a GTC from a retailer and then sells the code or converts it to PLEX and sells those to gain ISK, helping another player keep their account running. Most players are happy to do this, it's a semi altruistic exchange to some extent, I'd rather know that someone was able to keep playing if I sell a GTC or PLEX.
If the system was changed to skill points the market would drop rapidly as players would be unwilling to simply sell sp to others unless the amounts of ISK being paid were much larger. CCP would suffer a drop in revenue and both GTC and PLEX would become so expensive that most players probably wouldn't bother anyway, decreasing demand. People may still purchase GTCs for their own use but the market for them would be very poor.
WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place... |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1307
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 13:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:*snip*
Saving this for copy-past responses. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1356
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 14:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Simply put, there wouldn't be as large a market.
PLEX exist to give people a legitimate way to RMT, and so that CCP can cash in on what was previously a completely illegal market. The best way to make plex worth buying is to push their market value up. taking away the ability to use plex for game time would crash the market for them, reducing the volume of plex purchases and deeply impact CCP's ability to sell them. And I strongly suspect that the loss of PLEX would result in a lot of accounts not being resubbed. It would be a massive net loss for CCP.
It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
205
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 15:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
no.
eve is about time = skill. not money = skill.
if you f*cking i*iot would have looked through the forum for 1 minute, you would know this! |
Astroniomix
EliteTroll
56
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 15:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
mxzf wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:*snip* Saving this for copy-past responses.
copypasta ftw. |
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
60
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 15:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
Yet another let us buy skill points thread. To be civil I'll just say no. If you want to know why, its the same reason all the other threads say no. You cannot buy time, skill points accumulate over time, thats what makes us all even. If this were allowed all the rich moon goo alliances would be maxing out all their pilots making the game yet more unbalanced towards them. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1310
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 15:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Astroniomix wrote:mxzf wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:*snip* Saving this for copy-past responses. copypasta ftw.
Honestly, it's often the best way to handle things when people ask the same questions over and over without looking for the information themselves. And you should have seen me when the probing filters hit TQ, after the first day of "why can't I probe stuff down?" I had a copy-paste for that which I was all but spamming in Exploration chat, lol. |
Dersen Lowery
Children of Armok
Ushra'Khan
15
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Posted - 2012.04.23 15:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:no.
eve is about time = skill. not money = skill.
And by that equation, it already gives the OP what he wants. Money buys time (PLEX). Time buys skill points. Therefore, money buys skill points. You just get them over 30 days instead of all at once. |
The Hamilton
Definitive Exploration and Excavations
The Watchmen.
38
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Posted - 2012.04.23 15:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
I like to think of posts like this as "going through EVE puberty" you like the game, and you want instant rewards like you get in other MMO's but don't yet realise that the time based system is actually better. Also you complain a ton, like a pre-teen who thinks they know everything. Oops! I think I just became jaded and old.... |
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