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Caldari Navy Raven or Caldari Navy Scorpion?

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Otrebla Utrigas Space Bastards 9	Posted - 2012.04.23 08:48:00 - [1] - Quote Hi guys, I keep going on my plans of getting a stable L4 mission income while upgrading my skills for later PvP warfare, and I practice frig PvP in my little kestrel / merlin. Now i'm at the point where my Drake can pwn all L3 missions without ever caring for triggers with its impressive passive tank, so i'm training to get my first BS for L4 missions. So my question is... should I get a Caldari Navy Raven or Caldari Navy Scorpion? CNR is much more expensive, and I can't see it is way better, and the CNS has the same bonuses as the drake, so I think you can do a "drake like" passive buff shield tank instead of relying on active shield like in the Raven. Any advices?
Misanthra Alternative Enterprises 53	Posted - 2012.04.23 09:00:00 - [2] - Quote Otrebla Utrigas wrote: Hi guys, I keep going on my plans of getting a stable L4 mission income while upgrading my skills for later PvP warfare, and I practice frig PvP in my little kestrel / merlin. Now i'm at the point where my Drake can pwn all L3 missions without ever caring for triggers with its impressive passive tank, so i'm training to get my first BS for L4 missions. So my question is... should I get a Caldari Navy Raven or Caldari Navy Scorpion? CNR is much more expensive, and I can't see it is way better, and the CNS has the same bonuses as the drake, so I think you can do a "drake like" passive buff shield tank instead of relying on active shield like in the Raven. Any advices? CNR more gank than tank SNI more tank than gank. CNR puts out more damage to kill stuff faster. SNI will have a better tank....but it needs it since its kills stuff slower. Wrecks don't fire back lol. Pick your flavor of combat here. SNI also is an active tanker. Its does not passive tank like drake. If youy like that tank style, rattler. The secret to the passive "drake" tank is a natural ship stat that boosts shield regen. Ships that don't have as high it do not regen as fast. Also SNI (or CNR but this issue will affect your passive SNI idea more) will be your intro to the world of cruise missiles. A key ingredient of passive tank is lots of purge rigs or cdfe. Your drake ran well like this since heavy missiles hit medium size targets decent. Cruise missiles don't give you that luxury. All your passive tank rigs....you will lose them. In favor of flare or rigor rigs. No flare/rigor and you hit ships like utter ass. Making missions more difficult than they need to be. Welcom to cruise missiles lol.
Stenhardt Black Lagoon Inc. 0	Posted - 2012.04.23 09:17:00 - [3] - Quote i would get a rattlesnake if i where you=P.
Otrebla Utrigas Space Bastards 9	Posted - 2012.04.23 09:50:00 - [4] - Quote Stenhardt wrote: i would get a rattlesnake if i where you=P. Training the required skills will take me so much time, that I could instead train for tengu. But thanks for the advice, I didn't know that ships even existed :D
Mike Whiite Progressive State 42	Posted - 2012.04.23 10:08:00 - [5] - Quote It's not entirely true that a CNR does more damage/ kill stuff faster than a SNI. because of the tank an the mids slots a SNI can always dedicate it's riggs towards it's launchers, it's midslots make it possible to fit a second target painter killing smaller targets faster. and it's easier to fit a AB as well, not unuseful in many missions with larges distances between the gates. And it 's cheaper to fit it and run missions in it. And it looks better than the Raven That said in the end the CNR is probably better but only by a nose lenght
Dig Ito renditions of madness B A C K B 0 N E 2	Posted - 2012.04.23 10:09:00 - [6] - Quote If you are refering to Drone Skills, keep in mind that every t1 BS should have a flight of Hammerhead IIs with Drone Interfacing to IV , just saying
Stetson Eagle ROC Academy The ROC 17	Posted - 2012.04.23 10:42:00 - [7] - Quote In the current state of things training cruise missiles is a waste - the dps is plain lackluster even on CNR. I'd give serious thought to Tengu which is fast to train for and does it all fairly well. The difference between the two mentioned ships are: CNR: Good dps from missiles. SNI: Good dps from missiles and sentry drones, high tank potential. Rattler: Mediocre dps from drones and missiles, extreme tank potential. Golem: Excellent dps from torpedoes which require less missile support skills than cruise missiles. Salvage on the go. Tengu: Very fast movement compared to all the rest, jack of all trades, good dps from missiles, excellent dps from HAM's. The Rattlesnake is probably going to become very good with the potential drone damage mod in the future, but training decent sentry drones takes almost 3 months.
Stetson Eagle ROC Academy The ROC 17	Posted - 2012.04.23 10:50:00 - [8] - Quote Mike Whiite wrote: It's not entirely true that a CNR does more damage/ kill stuff faster than a SNI. because of the tank an the mids slots a SNI can always dedicate it's riggs towards it's launchers, it's midslots make it possible to fit a second target painter killing smaller targets faster. and it's easier to fit a AB as well, not unuseful in many missions with larges distances between the gates. And it 's cheaper to fit it and run missions in it. And it looks better than the Raven That said in the end the CNR is probably better but only by a nose lenght This is in fact true, but requires the SNI to use sentry drones as well as missiles. This leaves little utility for killing frigates except for being keen with the sentries and rat transversal, making the potentially good SNI a pain to fly in gankfit compared to CNR. I consider both ships lackluster - the SNI has a price advantage but that's it. CNR can be used as a massive DPS pump in torp fit for nullsec anoms (forsaken hubs mainly) but that requires a logistics alt. Pvp is a completely different matter. The SNI makes for an excellent bait in both armor and shield setup and CNR pushes out pretty nasty dps where needed (carrier kill fleets etc).
Otrebla Utrigas Space Bastards 9	Posted - 2012.04.23 10:51:00 - [9] - Quote Stetson Eagle wrote: In the current state of things training cruise missiles is a waste - the dps is plain lackluster even on CNR. I'd give serious thought to Tengu which is fast to train for and does it all fairly well. The difference between the two mentioned ships are: CNR: Good dps from missiles. SNI: Good dps from missiles and sentry drones, high tank potential. Rattler: Mediocre dps from drones and missiles, extreme tank potential. Golem: Excellent dps from torpedoes which require less missile support skills than cruise missiles. Salvage on the go. Tengu: Very fast movement compared to all the rest, jack of all trades, good dps from missiles, excellent dps from HAM's. The Rattlesnake is probably going to become very good with the potential drone damage mod in the future, but training decent sentry drones takes almost 3 months. I know, the difference is I can fly a BS and do L4 missions in 5 days, but I can't fly a tengu until 3 or 4 months. Don't be afraid, I'M GOING to train to tengu someday (after I had finished training for AF, cov ops and ceptors). But I just want L4 mission income meanwhile :D
Caleidascope Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 97	Posted - 2012.04.23 16:09:00 - [10] - Quote For beginner, I always recommend starting with navy scorpion. You can always later buy navy raven from lp store. Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat desert first!
Kalli Brixzat 9	Posted - 2012.04.24 04:11:00 - [11] - Quote Caleidascope wrote: For beginner, I always recommend starting with navy scorpion. You can always later buy navy raven from lp store. Good advice. It will be hard to lose your SNI in any L4 mission unless you're careless with triggers and aggro entire pockets. Even then, you have a good chance of surviving. CNR has the higher damage potential due to the extra launcher, which will make missions faster. If you're willing to drop a couple billion on your CNR, you can deadspace your tank and be nigh invincible. If money is an issue, get the SNI. If you have isk to burn, go for the CNR.
Tikera Tissant 31	Posted - 2012.04.24 04:12:00 - [12] - Quote Caleidascope wrote: For beginner, I always recommend starting with navy scorpion. You can always later buy navy raven from lp store. I agree, but I wouldn't get one from LP store For a BS starter, best to go to a SNI first, as its tank will make missions easy. Once you feel comfortable and your weapon skills and supporting skills gets higher and better, you can go to a CNR and do the missions faster.
Otrebla Utrigas Space Bastards 9	Posted - 2012.04.24 07:10:00 - [13] - Quote Thanks all for your replies. I'm gonna start with the SNI and then the CNR when i have enough money for it.
AstarothPrime Eternal Profiteers Persona Non Gratis 10	Posted - 2012.04.24 07:16:00 - [14] - Quote I still regret training caldari BS 5 and cruise missile specs... raven is c.r.a.p. Only thing good about caldari BullShit 5 is fixed rokh, but i need some rail skills now. Try some of the following in stead: 1) Tengu 2) Navy geddon 3) Apoc 4) Machariel 5) Arty maelstrom 6) Ubertanked abaddon You wont regret it I.
July Oumis Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2012.04.24 09:13:00 - [15] - Quote [Raven Navy Issue, EM / Therm] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Dread Guristas Heat Dissipation Field Dread Guristas Photon Scattering Field Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile Small Tractor Beam I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Applies most of your DPS, burst tank. Use NPC spec hardeners. This is an Example for Sansha / Blood. Tengu is better against Serp Guri, but with the Raven you have the advantage to hit for every Resist with the same damage using the right missiles. Forget Torps, forget cap stable tanking. This Fit requires a good amount of training and tactics. It also is far far away from any dumbstable, overtanked "afk" fitting
Kieron VonDeux 12	Posted - 2012.04.24 15:53:00 - [16] - Quote AstarothPrime wrote: ...Only thing good about caldari BullShit 5 is fixed rokh,... It's also good for the Nightmare.
Caleidascope Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 97	Posted - 2012.04.24 17:20:00 - [17] - Quote AstarothPrime wrote: I still regret training caldari BS 5 and cruise missile specs... raven is c.r.a.p. Only thing good about caldari BullShit 5 is fixed rokh, but i need some rail skills now. Try some of the following in stead: 1) Tengu 2) Navy geddon 3) Apoc 4) Machariel 5) Arty maelstrom 6) Ubertanked abaddon You wont regret it I. Not sure if trolling. Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat desert first!
Vaktaren Cat Proximity Alert Force Khatovar Industries Alliance 0	Posted - 2012.04.25 07:47:00 - [18] - Quote Having flown both, I find the SNI my favourite, it's slightly more flexible and massively less ugly. You can do a 3 TP or 2 TP or 1 TP fit depending on the missions, giving more tank or more ability to hit small things. With 3 TP's those missions with lots of frigs go much faster than just using drones. Also the SNI is cheaper. If you have lower skills it is better since you can up the tank and just do the missions slower, less likely to loose your ship when you haven't built up the isk to buy a new one.
11eyes War Trident Trifectas Syndicate 0	Posted - 2012.04.25 10:44:00 - [19] - Quote Kieron VonDeux wrote: AstarothPrime wrote: ...Only thing good about caldari BullShit 5 is fixed rokh,... It's also good for the Nightmare. and the rattlesnake
Gorki Andropov Kerensky Initiatives 328	Posted - 2012.04.25 16:01:00 - [20] - Quote You could try this. My Raven was equipped with the following: HIGH 06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I 01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1 01 x SALVAGER I MEDIUM 04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS 01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM 01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER LOW 01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL 01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I 01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I 02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I DRONES 02 x WARRIOR I DRONES 03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES UPGRADES 01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I 01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I 01 x HYDRAULIC BAY THRUSTER I
Caleidascope Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 97	Posted - 2012.04.25 20:46:00 - [21] - Quote Gorki Andropov wrote: You could try this. My Raven was equipped with the following: HIGH 06 x Cruise Missile Launcher I 01 x SMALL TRACTOR BEAM 1 01 x SALVAGER I MEDIUM 04 x LARGE SHIELD EXTENDERS 01 x 'HYPHNOS' ECM 01 x MEDIUM SHIELD BOOSTER LOW 01 x EMERGENCY DAMAGE CONTROL 01 x ARMOR KINETIC HARDENER I 01 x ARMOR THREMIC HARDENER I 02 x WARP CORE STABILIZER I DRONES 02 x WARRIOR I DRONES 03 x HAMMERHEAD I DRONES UPGRADES 01 x ROCKET FUEL CACHE PARTINTION I 01 x BAY LOADING ACCELERATOR I 01 x HYDRAULIC BAY THRUSTER I lol Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat desert first!
Katja Faith Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 54	Posted - 2012.04.25 20:47:00 - [22] - Quote I prefer the SNI; the Ravens are just too lumbering for my tastes...
Mike Whiite Progressive State State Section 9 42	Posted - 2012.04.26 11:31:00 - [23] - Quote Otrebla Utrigas wrote: Thanks all for your replies. I'm gonna start with the SNI and then the CNR when i have enough money for it. Also, when flying an SNI, you can start op-ing it with faction and dead space modules, since you can use them on the CNR as well.

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