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JP Beauregard
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Posted - 2004.08.06 06:16:00 -
[1]
Edited by: JP Beauregard on 07/08/2004 12:36:53
While I'm on the subject of obscenely irritating people...
N.A.G.A. now has now acquired a Buzzard bpo to add to their one Cheetah and two Helios bpos, rivaling only Xanadu in public expressions of self-satisfied gloating. More power to them, as long as the money lasts at least. Rest assured, I won't be buying from N.A.G.A. even if that means I'd have to pay triple their price (unlikely) or not fly a Buzzard at all. Monolpolies must die.
But my beef is not with N.A.G.A. It is with those who do research in a specific research field to obtain certain bps and then decide, nah, it's too much of a hassle to actually enjoy what you worked for, let's just get another quick and equally useless billion of virtual cash.
Without any regard for the effects that the rampant auctioning and selling of tech II bpos has on the market - and thereby everyone in EVE - they absolutely insist on adding a few utterly meaningless zeros to their wallets before they quit the game because they got bored with how easy it is to "win".
Why?
Is is an achiever syndrome? Are you people hell-bent on making the rest of us lose all respect for our fellow gamers?
Why?
Someone with a kind heart explain this to me, please. And I beg you to refrain from using the word "greed".
JP Beauregard
=== The Pilkington Guides to EVE === |
JP Beauregard
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Posted - 2004.08.06 06:16:00 -
[2]
Edited by: JP Beauregard on 07/08/2004 12:36:53
While I'm on the subject of obscenely irritating people...
N.A.G.A. now has now acquired a Buzzard bpo to add to their one Cheetah and two Helios bpos, rivaling only Xanadu in public expressions of self-satisfied gloating. More power to them, as long as the money lasts at least. Rest assured, I won't be buying from N.A.G.A. even if that means I'd have to pay triple their price (unlikely) or not fly a Buzzard at all. Monolpolies must die.
But my beef is not with N.A.G.A. It is with those who do research in a specific research field to obtain certain bps and then decide, nah, it's too much of a hassle to actually enjoy what you worked for, let's just get another quick and equally useless billion of virtual cash.
Without any regard for the effects that the rampant auctioning and selling of tech II bpos has on the market - and thereby everyone in EVE - they absolutely insist on adding a few utterly meaningless zeros to their wallets before they quit the game because they got bored with how easy it is to "win".
Why?
Is is an achiever syndrome? Are you people hell-bent on making the rest of us lose all respect for our fellow gamers?
Why?
Someone with a kind heart explain this to me, please. And I beg you to refrain from using the word "greed".
JP Beauregard
=== The Pilkington Guides to EVE === |
hatchette
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Posted - 2004.08.06 06:39:00 -
[3]
Many people who research don't have skills to manufacture and research tech2 blueprints. They don't have industry lvl5 or metallurgy lvl5.. because they are lets say fighters.. and don't want to spend 2 weeks of skill training industry, when they can get that controlled bursts or something to lvl5.
And they want to have fun fighting... not producing. So they rather sell BPO and get the money, so they can replace their ships.
We suffer from this too.. but we can't really blame people who sell the BPOs.. they just want to enjoy the game in different way, than you do.
And you can't blame Xanadu and NAGA.. they buy BPOs because they can... because they have money and they want to make more money.
So who is to blame? We are.
1. We can protest their monopolism and don't buy their products. If we don't we are to blame for their wealth. We give them money to acquire even more BPOs.
2. We are to blame because we don't organize.. combine our knowledge and wealth and acquire BPOs ourselves.
I for one won't sell any tech2 BPOs.. but i'll buy more of them if opportunity arises. Hopefully i'll also have some luck in BPO lottery soon...
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hatchette
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Posted - 2004.08.06 06:39:00 -
[4]
Many people who research don't have skills to manufacture and research tech2 blueprints. They don't have industry lvl5 or metallurgy lvl5.. because they are lets say fighters.. and don't want to spend 2 weeks of skill training industry, when they can get that controlled bursts or something to lvl5.
And they want to have fun fighting... not producing. So they rather sell BPO and get the money, so they can replace their ships.
We suffer from this too.. but we can't really blame people who sell the BPOs.. they just want to enjoy the game in different way, than you do.
And you can't blame Xanadu and NAGA.. they buy BPOs because they can... because they have money and they want to make more money.
So who is to blame? We are.
1. We can protest their monopolism and don't buy their products. If we don't we are to blame for their wealth. We give them money to acquire even more BPOs.
2. We are to blame because we don't organize.. combine our knowledge and wealth and acquire BPOs ourselves.
I for one won't sell any tech2 BPOs.. but i'll buy more of them if opportunity arises. Hopefully i'll also have some luck in BPO lottery soon...
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Sammira
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Posted - 2004.08.06 07:14:00 -
[5]
(
From reading that, I got that NAGA just have two helios but have 3 of the different types of covert ops ships.
As for why . . well the component market to make these ships is fluctuating rapidly, supplies are often low for any parts needed, costs to build are very high often pushing the small-timers out of the chance of building these. Not to mention the skills required to research and then build are often high.
Some people think it's just not worth the effort. They would rather have the money to be able to do something else with it that they enjoy than waiting ages to research the BPo then attempt to gain enough components to sell afew ships. Larger corps have better abilties (usually) to build the ships, as well as obsene amounts of cash to pay the lucky so-and-so's and thus are the ones acruing the BPo's.
Heh, I've seen people sell on tech II BPo's for a mix of battleships + isk so that they can PvP more and I certainly can't see them quitting any time soon.
)
Drink StarsiÖ + [DS] Haulage
Production Division
Caldari State Citizen
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Sammira
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Posted - 2004.08.06 07:14:00 -
[6]
(
From reading that, I got that NAGA just have two helios but have 3 of the different types of covert ops ships.
As for why . . well the component market to make these ships is fluctuating rapidly, supplies are often low for any parts needed, costs to build are very high often pushing the small-timers out of the chance of building these. Not to mention the skills required to research and then build are often high.
Some people think it's just not worth the effort. They would rather have the money to be able to do something else with it that they enjoy than waiting ages to research the BPo then attempt to gain enough components to sell afew ships. Larger corps have better abilties (usually) to build the ships, as well as obsene amounts of cash to pay the lucky so-and-so's and thus are the ones acruing the BPo's.
Heh, I've seen people sell on tech II BPo's for a mix of battleships + isk so that they can PvP more and I certainly can't see them quitting any time soon.
)
Drink StarsiÖ + [DS] Haulage
Production Division
Caldari State Citizen
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JP Beauregard
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Posted - 2004.08.06 07:35:00 -
[7]
hatchette, dearie, I'm not looking to "blame" anyone for anything.
I am merely pointing out that once you have sold your tech II bpo, there is nothing to show for from your research other than virtual money. And anyone who has played EVE for any lenght of time will tell you that virtual money means absolutely positively nothing. There is an endless supply of it and anyone with half a brain, bah, make it a quarter, will have more than he can ever hope to spend in no time _and_ have had fun making it almost incidentally.
Sammira - thanks for the correction, I edited myself accordingly -, I am fairly familiar with the tech II component nightmare. As a small corporation, we have been doing pretty well with tech II research: three researchers, six tech bpos offered, four accepted. So I think I can say with some experience to back me up that there are ways in which even a small corporation can make decent money on tech II manufacturing.
How? Try bulk sales to large corporations for starters, combined with BYOC deals. You'd probably make less money than if you sold the bpo outright but you'll still make plenty - and there are plenty of intangible gains to boot.
So why do people sell tech II bpos after they've invested a lot of time in skill training and research missions to obtain them? If they do it for money, why, they could have gone mining in the first place...
JP Beauregard
=== The Pilkington Guides to EVE === |
JP Beauregard
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Posted - 2004.08.06 07:35:00 -
[8]
hatchette, dearie, I'm not looking to "blame" anyone for anything.
I am merely pointing out that once you have sold your tech II bpo, there is nothing to show for from your research other than virtual money. And anyone who has played EVE for any lenght of time will tell you that virtual money means absolutely positively nothing. There is an endless supply of it and anyone with half a brain, bah, make it a quarter, will have more than he can ever hope to spend in no time _and_ have had fun making it almost incidentally.
Sammira - thanks for the correction, I edited myself accordingly -, I am fairly familiar with the tech II component nightmare. As a small corporation, we have been doing pretty well with tech II research: three researchers, six tech bpos offered, four accepted. So I think I can say with some experience to back me up that there are ways in which even a small corporation can make decent money on tech II manufacturing.
How? Try bulk sales to large corporations for starters, combined with BYOC deals. You'd probably make less money than if you sold the bpo outright but you'll still make plenty - and there are plenty of intangible gains to boot.
So why do people sell tech II bpos after they've invested a lot of time in skill training and research missions to obtain them? If they do it for money, why, they could have gone mining in the first place...
JP Beauregard
=== The Pilkington Guides to EVE === |
hatchette
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Posted - 2004.08.06 07:55:00 -
[9]
Well... mining takes time.. research does not. Every fighter has electronic, eng and mechanic skills to lvl5.. and science to lvl3... so they train science for 5-6days and they are in the lottery to win tech2 BPO.
But they can't and don't want to do a thing with it.. so they sell it. Even BYOC manufacturing takes time.. you have to go to one place to replenish supplies of components and minerals.. but many people who get Tech2 BPOs simply don't want to waste time going to empire every 2-3 days.
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hatchette
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Posted - 2004.08.06 07:55:00 -
[10]
Well... mining takes time.. research does not. Every fighter has electronic, eng and mechanic skills to lvl5.. and science to lvl3... so they train science for 5-6days and they are in the lottery to win tech2 BPO.
But they can't and don't want to do a thing with it.. so they sell it. Even BYOC manufacturing takes time.. you have to go to one place to replenish supplies of components and minerals.. but many people who get Tech2 BPOs simply don't want to waste time going to empire every 2-3 days.
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Kalast Raven
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Posted - 2004.08.06 10:04:00 -
[11]
I am also concerned about the growing industrial power of the ultra-rich. The only way to deal with it is to retain finiancial independence, so that you can't be bought, and you keep your own technological edge.
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K. Raven
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Kalast Raven
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Posted - 2004.08.06 10:04:00 -
[12]
I am also concerned about the growing industrial power of the ultra-rich. The only way to deal with it is to retain finiancial independence, so that you can't be bought, and you keep your own technological edge.
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K. Raven
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Space Angel
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Posted - 2004.08.06 15:15:00 -
[13]
I have dealt with naga quite a few times for various items and freewheeling is always great to deal with
As for the pricing I have found it to always be fair and reasonable Rather them than the ridiculous prices some people charge he even took back some cargo expanders when I realised I needed 2% more to fit an extra gaint can in
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Space Angel
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Posted - 2004.08.06 15:15:00 -
[14]
I have dealt with naga quite a few times for various items and freewheeling is always great to deal with
As for the pricing I have found it to always be fair and reasonable Rather them than the ridiculous prices some people charge he even took back some cargo expanders when I realised I needed 2% more to fit an extra gaint can in
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2004.08.06 15:27:00 -
[15]
I have to say I'm in the lottery for the bpo's, not the money.
So far I've been fortunate enough to get one bpo. Since the day I've had it it's been sat in my hanger doing absolutely nothing. I have the skills neither to manufacture nor research it. Do I care ? No. A tech II bpo is (currently) one of the only ways to possess an (almost)unique item. To me it's worth more than anybody could possibly offer me for it.
But before you all go crazy saying it's people like me that are ruining the tech II market, it's a fairly useless item that can't even be sold on the market (grrr, please sort that CCP!). It's also one of the unfortunate ones which requires a tech I item, the bpo of which is even harder to get hold of than the tech II.
Eventually I'll train the skills, and at the very least build a couple for me and run off a bpc or six.
But if it was useful ? Well, if I couldn't dedicate the time to manufacture/copy, then I would consider selling. In the end I would rather see it put to use than collecting dust in my hangar.
ISK is not the only achievement.
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2004.08.06 15:27:00 -
[16]
I have to say I'm in the lottery for the bpo's, not the money.
So far I've been fortunate enough to get one bpo. Since the day I've had it it's been sat in my hanger doing absolutely nothing. I have the skills neither to manufacture nor research it. Do I care ? No. A tech II bpo is (currently) one of the only ways to possess an (almost)unique item. To me it's worth more than anybody could possibly offer me for it.
But before you all go crazy saying it's people like me that are ruining the tech II market, it's a fairly useless item that can't even be sold on the market (grrr, please sort that CCP!). It's also one of the unfortunate ones which requires a tech I item, the bpo of which is even harder to get hold of than the tech II.
Eventually I'll train the skills, and at the very least build a couple for me and run off a bpc or six.
But if it was useful ? Well, if I couldn't dedicate the time to manufacture/copy, then I would consider selling. In the end I would rather see it put to use than collecting dust in my hangar.
ISK is not the only achievement.
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Dirtball
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Posted - 2004.08.06 15:59:00 -
[17]
I do not know why people would sell their tech 2 bpo's either. Furthermore there is always hope that you'll get a tech 2 bpo so I don't know why people are selling their tech 2 components. I'm with Toran Mehtar, if I had a tech 2 bpo and couldn't use it, it would sit in my hangar collecting dust regardless of how much someone wanted to pay me for it.
However remember that in the early days of the lottery some people would get 2 interceptor bpo's in a week, and you only need 1 so may as well sell the other one I guess (but not to Xanadu).
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Dirtball
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Posted - 2004.08.06 15:59:00 -
[18]
I do not know why people would sell their tech 2 bpo's either. Furthermore there is always hope that you'll get a tech 2 bpo so I don't know why people are selling their tech 2 components. I'm with Toran Mehtar, if I had a tech 2 bpo and couldn't use it, it would sit in my hangar collecting dust regardless of how much someone wanted to pay me for it.
However remember that in the early days of the lottery some people would get 2 interceptor bpo's in a week, and you only need 1 so may as well sell the other one I guess (but not to Xanadu).
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Diana Merris
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Posted - 2004.08.06 18:51:00 -
[19]
Hatchette covered the reasons pretty well.
I'm a freelancer not a corp member. I also have limited time to play, 20hrs a week if I'm lucky. If I were to manufacture an item myself it would take most of my play time just to get the components. I don't find mining/hauling to be fun. I have 1.5 million skill points in industry because I used to be a manufacturer but I don't bother anymore.
As far as selling BPs for "useless virtual money" goes, I don't work at the game to make money, I play the game to have fun. What that means is I only have 50 million in the bank even though I've been playing since release. Winning more BPs to sell would give me more money to have fun with and having fun is why I play the game. 
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Diana Merris
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Posted - 2004.08.06 18:51:00 -
[20]
Hatchette covered the reasons pretty well.
I'm a freelancer not a corp member. I also have limited time to play, 20hrs a week if I'm lucky. If I were to manufacture an item myself it would take most of my play time just to get the components. I don't find mining/hauling to be fun. I have 1.5 million skill points in industry because I used to be a manufacturer but I don't bother anymore.
As far as selling BPs for "useless virtual money" goes, I don't work at the game to make money, I play the game to have fun. What that means is I only have 50 million in the bank even though I've been playing since release. Winning more BPs to sell would give me more money to have fun with and having fun is why I play the game.
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Siroc
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Posted - 2004.08.06 20:19:00 -
[21]
typical case of corporation bashing, yes, lets start screaming at NAGA because they can make more money then we can. Get a grip bro, you want to make money, then figure out a way. I think NAGA is a great corporation from looking at how they operate and what they do and I wish there would be more like that. Game would only benefit from it.
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Siroc
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Posted - 2004.08.06 20:19:00 -
[22]
typical case of corporation bashing, yes, lets start screaming at NAGA because they can make more money then we can. Get a grip bro, you want to make money, then figure out a way. I think NAGA is a great corporation from looking at how they operate and what they do and I wish there would be more like that. Game would only benefit from it.
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Zinjan
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Posted - 2004.08.06 20:40:00 -
[23]
Love 
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Zinjan
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Posted - 2004.08.06 20:40:00 -
[24]
Love
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Ara Belegalen
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Posted - 2004.08.07 11:57:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Ara Belegalen on 07/08/2004 12:02:32
Edited by: Ara Belegalen on 07/08/2004 12:00:26
I understand what you mean. I also do not see a resolution and as you probably realized after playing the game as long as you have that people will do things without considering the end result (for better or for worse). The end result of the BPO original auctions is that the more they happen the more establised the powerful become. The rich become richer and the cycle continues. And for anyone that thinks this is a bash on So-And-So-Rich-Corp thread you are totaly missing the point and should not bother posting.
JP I would be happy to talk about this more ingame if you like.
EDIT: LOVE 
When all you know is gone, you will know death. |
Ara Belegalen
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Posted - 2004.08.07 11:57:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Ara Belegalen on 07/08/2004 12:02:32
Edited by: Ara Belegalen on 07/08/2004 12:00:26
I understand what you mean. I also do not see a resolution and as you probably realized after playing the game as long as you have that people will do things without considering the end result (for better or for worse). The end result of the BPO original auctions is that the more they happen the more establised the powerful become. The rich become richer and the cycle continues. And for anyone that thinks this is a bash on So-And-So-Rich-Corp thread you are totaly missing the point and should not bother posting.
JP I would be happy to talk about this more ingame if you like.
EDIT: LOVE
When all you know is gone, you will know death. |
Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2004.08.07 22:26:00 -
[27]
Well,
Regarding your "beef" with people who research BPO's, get them and sell them.
It's human nature to want something, then when you get it, realize that maybe that's not what you REALLY want.
Making the most out of a BPO doesn't mean just getting it. That's just the tip of the iceberg. Then you gotta:
1) Get the skills to produce the item (or find a trusted partner who can do it).
2) Get the skills to research the item. (interchangable with 1).
3) Locate the parts to make the item.
4) Sell the item at a profit.
So you see, not everybody is prepared to go thru those steps, once they get the BPO. Again, it's human nature.
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Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2004.08.07 22:26:00 -
[28]
Well,
Regarding your "beef" with people who research BPO's, get them and sell them.
It's human nature to want something, then when you get it, realize that maybe that's not what you REALLY want.
Making the most out of a BPO doesn't mean just getting it. That's just the tip of the iceberg. Then you gotta:
1) Get the skills to produce the item (or find a trusted partner who can do it).
2) Get the skills to research the item. (interchangable with 1).
3) Locate the parts to make the item.
4) Sell the item at a profit.
So you see, not everybody is prepared to go thru those steps, once they get the BPO. Again, it's human nature.
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Kurenin
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Posted - 2004.08.08 03:45:00 -
[29]
 Originally by: JP Beauregard
...only Xanadu in public expressions of self-satisfied gloating...I won't be buying from N.A.G.A. even if that means I'd have to pay triple their price (unlikely) or not fly a Buzzard at all. Monolpolies must die....
Firstly; lol.
Secoundly; Xanadu has not made any threads "gloating".
Thirdly; Why bother boycotting N.A.G.A, why shoot yourself in the foot and pay more?
Your arguement is flawed tbh.
-----
[22:02] <Kurenin> anyhow, on a more serious note, what did you think of those ideas?
[22:02] <Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
Inactivity wins you. |
Kurenin
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Posted - 2004.08.08 03:45:00 -
[30]
Originally by: JP Beauregard
...only Xanadu in public expressions of self-satisfied gloating...I won't be buying from N.A.G.A. even if that means I'd have to pay triple their price (unlikely) or not fly a Buzzard at all. Monolpolies must die....
Firstly; lol.
Secoundly; Xanadu has not made any threads "gloating".
Thirdly; Why bother boycotting N.A.G.A, why shoot yourself in the foot and pay more?
Your arguement is flawed tbh.
-----
[22:02] <Kurenin> anyhow, on a more serious note, what did you think of those ideas?
[22:02] <Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
Inactivity wins you. |
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