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Wokers in Chinese like sweatshop for HP, Microsoft, Dell and IBM

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Rakivic Galactic Express Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.02.13 19:13:00 - [1] I read this and glad I dont use Dell and IBM products and only Microsoft softawre....it is desturbing to say the least http://observers.france24.com/en/content/20090212-working-hp-microsoft-china-serving-prison-sentence-sweatshop-dell-ibm-china
Fiire Watch	Posted - 2009.02.13 19:25:00 - [2] Communism at its best.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.02.13 19:29:00 - [3] It's hardly the first time I've read a story like this, but words still fail me.
P'uck	Posted - 2009.02.13 19:33:00 - [4] I feel ashamed that my windows copy is not pirated
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.02.13 19:34:00 - [5] Originally by: Fiire Watch Global capitalism at its best. Fixed.
Dantes Revenge Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.13 19:36:00 - [6] Originally by: Fiire Watch Communism at its best. Western imperialism at its best more like. Sweatshops have been the norm for most Western industries, if you won't buy from them because of this, you won't buy any designer label goods. Be it clothing, household goods, electrical goods or anything else, big names always use sweatshops. All this "Fair Trade Goods" hype is garbage, they still employ sweatshop workers in the poorest countries in the world to cut their costs and boost their profits. If an unknown name can manufacture cheaper goods from their home country, that only shows that known brand names are just making obscene profits at the expense of the poorest countries. -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. All this has happened before and will happen again
FOl2TY8 Revolutionary United Front Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.02.13 20:07:00 - [7] Originally by: Fiire Watch Communism at its best. Ha ha ha what an uninformed tool. How does communism have anything to do with this?
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction The Firm.	Posted - 2009.02.13 20:12:00 - [8] The system under which this happens is irrelevant. Their labour is cheap. Our labour is expensive. This should naturally correct. However, continued exponential growth of the human population ensures it cannot. There is a global labour surplus, and there will be until there is either far more economic activity, or fewer people. Authoritarian interests of all stripes merely use the resources available, which helpfully oblige by multiplying prodigiously.
Rawrior Gallente Neo Spartans	Posted - 2009.02.13 20:24:00 - [9] Originally by: FOl2TY8 Originally by: Fiire Watch Communism at its best. Ha ha ha what an uninformed tool. How does communism have anything to do with this? china's communist c/d
Dred 'Morte New European Regiment R.U.R.	Posted - 2009.02.13 20:32:00 - [10] china's politicly communist, economicly capitalist really, the core of the problem here is, because of the crisis, it's hard to find another job and their boss' exploit that, sad
IVeige	Posted - 2009.02.13 21:33:00 - [11] Originally by: P'uck I feel ashamed that my windows copy is not pirated You mean there is actually real people that pay money for windows ?
MyOwnSling Gallente Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.02.13 21:40:00 - [12] Ever stop and wonder why those people are in the sweatshops to begin with? Are they being forced there? They are not, otherwise it would be called slave labor and there would be an even larger outcry. So, you have to wonder why these people are there. In general, you would think they are there to try to earn money to support themselves or their families. Putting the sweatshop out of business wouldn't solve the issue as it would take away the ability to earn money and the workers would be in even worse shape. In short, I don't think you can blame the companies employing the workers so much as the countries the workers live in and the lack of labor laws or human rights laws. There is definitely more to it than that, but just blindly blaming and going after the "offending" corporations is the wrong approach.
Sgt Blade Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.02.14 02:21:00 - [13] ok 60 euro cents = about 5.2CNY(Chinese money ) and last time I went over there to visit family I could pay 2/3 CNY to catch a bus trip which would last 30 mins or catch the metro for 5 CNY. Using that as an example compared the the english minimum wage of ú5.73 its not too far off seeing as these days bus fares cost ú1.60 where I live. so the only thing to gripe about is the working conditions... and even then like the guy above said, they are not forced to work there Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.02.14 02:29:00 - [14] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 14/02/2009 02:30:28 It doesn't matter if the wage is comparable to Western-style minimum wages when working conditions exist like that. It also doesn't matter that the people aren't forced to work there. It still doesn't make it right. American workers in the age of the robber barons lived in a state not unlike this, but fortunately for us we eventually got some reformers into the government and effective leaders into unions who put a stop to it. American prosperity boomed after the end of that era, and many of us (I know it's true with me and my parents) have been able to live greatly improved lives because our grandparents didn't have to sc**** by in the conditions of the bad old days. There is no price that can be put on human dignity, and there is no dignity in being locked in a sweatshop, working 12 hours a day every day of the week for what is barely a living wage if there is no system in place that has the capacity for eventually improving those workers situations. Without such a system even passive resistance is all but useless.
Bish Ounen Gallente Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.02.14 02:36:00 - [15] Originally by: MyOwnSling Ever stop and wonder why those people are in the sweatshops to begin with? Are they being forced there? They are not, otherwise it would be called slave labor and there would be an even larger outcry. So, you have to wonder why these people are there. In general, you would think they are there to try to earn money to support themselves or their families. Putting the sweatshop out of business wouldn't solve the issue as it would take away the ability to earn money and the workers would be in even worse shape. In short, I don't think you can blame the companies employing the workers so much as the countries the workers live in and the lack of labor laws or human rights laws. There is definitely more to it than that, but just blindly blaming and going after the "offending" corporations is the wrong approach. QFT. Sweatshops are bad, but bleeding heart lefties with no concept of economics are worse. Here's a clue lefties: Better to work in a sweatshop and have enough to live than to have no work and starve to death. The REAL problem here is that the Chinese govt, while enjoying the economic fruits of Capitalism, is still at it's heart a cold and calculating Communist Oligarchy. The Chinese government cares very little for it's people beyond keeping them quiet and in line. The only way to stop the sweatshops is regime change in China. Not likely to happen until the Chinese people and the Chinese military decide it's worth it. Fix the Wardec System!
Sgt Blade Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.02.14 02:41:00 - [16] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 14/02/2009 02:30:28 It doesn't matter if the wage is comparable to Western-style minimum wages when working conditions exist like that. It also doesn't matter that the people aren't forced to work there. It still doesn't make it right. American workers in the age of the robber barons lived in a state not unlike this, but fortunately for us we eventually got some reformers into the government and effective leaders into unions who put a stop to it. American prosperity boomed after the end of that era, and many of us (I know it's true with me and my parents) have been able to live greatly improved lives because our grandparents didn't have to sc**** by in the conditions of the bad old days. There is no price that can be put on human dignity, and there is no dignity in being locked in a sweatshop, working 12 hours a day every day of the week for what is barely a living wage if there is no system in place that has the capacity for eventually improving those workers situations. Without such a system even passive resistance is all but useless. I see where your coming from but remember, many of these counties like China are still developing countries. In many places people still live in absolute poverty. How can they develop as a country like how many Western countries have with all these 'restrictions' that would be put on them if the US or UK had control. In the UK people had slaved in the old coal pits or risked lung disease in the pot banks during the industrial age. but without having gone through that period, the UK would not be what it is now which is (apart from this slight depression) a rather powerful country with some economic power. If you don't let countries get trhough their own "tough" period, they will never develop as fast as the rest of the world has. Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2009.02.14 03:12:00 - [17] ITT people who have never worked a real crap job? "Including unpaid overtime, workers are at the factory on average 81 hours a week, which exceeds China's legal limit by 318 percent!" If my calculations are correct, and Im pretty sure they are, that puts the max legal work week at 20 hours. Uh huh. Even in western nations, 81 hours is not unheard of, especially in hospitals and law offices. I recall reading in some article about gold farmers that the cost of living in China is approx. 1/8th of the US. 76 cents x 8 = $6.08/hr. I used to work for $5.20/hr. The only possible work injury for these people are repetitive strain disorders, better off than many in that regard. Working conditions, terrible, but a job is a job. The only party to blame here is the Chinese government. Those Olympic facilities were built on the broken bodies of sweatshop workers, but all anyone talked about was the poor little Tibetans. In before Ralara.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Enterprises	Posted - 2009.02.14 03:53:00 - [18] Originally by: Brea Lafail ITT people who have never worked a real crap job? "Including unpaid overtime, workers are at the factory on average 81 hours a week, which exceeds China's legal limit by 318 percent!" If my calculations are correct, and Im pretty sure they are, that puts the max legal work week at 20 hours. Uh huh. Even in western nations, 81 hours is not unheard of, especially in hospitals and law offices. I recall reading in some article about gold farmers that the cost of living in China is approx. 1/8th of the US. 76 cents x 8 = $6.08/hr. I used to work for $5.20/hr. The only possible work injury for these people are repetitive strain disorders, better off than many in that regard. Working conditions, terrible, but a job is a job. The only party to blame here is the Chinese government. Those Olympic facilities were built on the broken bodies of sweatshop workers, but all anyone talked about was the poor little Tibetans. 4 words doesn't make it right ---------- "This is Chopper Dave's made for TV movie, Blades Of Vengeance. See, he's a chopper pilot by day, but by night he fights crime as a werewolf... YEAH!"
lofty29 Aliastra	Posted - 2009.02.14 04:09:00 - [19] Originally by: HankMurphy 4 words doesn't make it right It's called outsourcing. It's expensive to pay american people to do menial tasks, so instead they send the work over to countries such as China and Thailand. However, people make the mistake of looking at how much they would be making in USD, not in a relevance to their local amounts. The cost of living for those people is rediculously lower than it is in western countries like the US and western Europe, so they're normally getting paid quite a bit more than they would working other jobs. And what other jobs might those be? Well in china, they could go and work 16 hours a day in rice fields, for half the pay, with even worse living conditions. But I don't see you complaining about that when you pick up your 2kg sack of rice at the supermarket. Ignorance sure is bliss. 族---族 Latest Video : Relentless
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Enterprises	Posted - 2009.02.14 04:16:00 - [20] oh shove it. "i dont see you complaining" like i'm some naive child you are educating on the harsh harsh world. the fact the outsource to save a buck ALONE ****es me off. unbridled capitalism at it's worst. suggesting that someone working 80 hours a week is us doing them a favor because of their alternatives is the peak of stupidity. the wage itself isn't what i am commenting on. if our countries MUST outsource to other countries, the least they could do is REALLY make a difference like instituting a standard work week, giving these workers a bare minimum of incentive/benifits on top of their wages etc etc etc. help set a better standard in the region. and they can. with all the money they are saving by outsourcing they most definitely can and still rake in the $$.... but nevermind, you keep justifying it and telling me how unlearned i am ---------- "This is Chopper Dave's made for TV movie, Blades Of Vengeance. See, he's a chopper pilot by day, but by night he fights crime as a werewolf... YEAH!"
lofty29 Aliastra	Posted - 2009.02.14 04:25:00 - [21] Somehow I don't think even Microsoft could get the Chinese Government to succumb to their ideas. As it is, outsourcing is the life-blood of some countries, and without it they would be far worse off. And don't try that 'oh it annoys me that they try to make a quick $$$'. No, they're trying to run a successful business. And which businesses are the most successful? Oh yeah, the ones who save money where they can. Would you buy a graphics card off of website A for ú100 more than off website B? Of course not, it's simple logic. Now, if the people were forced by whip and chain to work at these factorys, well that's a different story, but they aren't. They're there voluntarily because they can't get another job, and the majority of them would probably be homeless without said factories. They're not perfect, but they're something. Oh, and Bill Gates has probably done more for developing countries than anyone else on this planet combined. And once he dies, his direct family members are only getting $1b each. The rest (over 50bn) is going to various charities.
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2009.02.14 04:27:00 - [22] Originally by: HankMurphy 4 words doesn't make it right Maybe not right, but definitely not my problem. If Chinese want to treat Chinese poorly, do we have a right to tell them otherwise? It's up to the chinese to set and enforce their own work codes. Capitalism, similar to democracy, is the worst form of economics except for all the other that have been tried.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.02.14 04:53:00 - [23] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 14/02/2009 04:57:20 Originally by: Brea Lafail Capitalism, similar to democracy, is the worst form of economics except for all the other that have been tried. Treating people like **** is something that no economic or political model has a monopoly on. Looking the other way on it only enables it further. Maybe not so much if it's you or I who look the other way, but the governments of the free world who wouldn't tolerate such conditions in their own countries have only one very poor excuse for tolerating virtual slavery: "we don't want to pay more for stuff."
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2009.02.14 07:26:00 - [24] The comment on that is right; "What do you expect if consumers want $400 PC's".
Nebulous Minmatar Thukker Zoku	Posted - 2009.02.14 08:03:00 - [25] Originally by: Brea Lafail Capitalism, similar to democracy, is the worst form of economics except for all the other that have been tried. This is a common problem the world faces today, people like to think that Communism, democratic, socialist, republican and liberal governments are different, problem is they are "all" the same for they all have and revolve around the money/profit/labour system, since the use of money was introduced another form of economy has never been tried, that is why you have no freedom whatsoever, for you can not vote out of the monetary system, all your government does is make the rules and laws with little or no thought towards humankind as a whole. --------------------------------
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.02.14 12:08:00 - [26] Edited by: TraininVain on 14/02/2009 12:13:23 Originally by: Rawrior Originally by: FOl2TY8 Originally by: Fiire Watch Communism at its best. Ha ha ha what an uninformed tool. How does communism have anything to do with this? china's communist c/d d. China have been switching their economy from a planned to an open market economy for the past 20 years. The government still maintain control like a communist government but I'd categorise them more as a mixed economy with strong links to the capitalist global economy. I don't know if you can call a country that does the amount of export business china does "Communist".
ceaon Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.14 12:16:00 - [27] Originally by: TraininVain Originally by: Fiire Watch Global capitalism at its best. Fixed. sad and true btw recruit more players in your corp/alliance and tell your enemy to make the same thing and you get more players in low sec and 0.0
Rondo Gunn Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2009.02.14 12:53:00 - [28] Originally by: Dantes Revenge ...All this "Fair Trade Goods" hype is garbage, Quote: Here here. There's a shop in Austin Tx and they swear all the goods are fair trade. It's the cornerstone of the whole buisness from the looks. They'd probably leap across the counter and strangle you just for saying that. Ah the poor kids and their 'ideals'. Pah. ----------------------------------------------- shin ku myo u Please note: Everything I say is flavored with irony, cynicism and, of course, minty freshness.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.02.14 13:28:00 - [29] Every human life is NOT precious. Especially not when there's nearly 7 bil of them, with over 1 bil just in China. Some people will ALWAYS have to take shabby jobs to make a living. Not all people can be engineers or doctors. Is it modern-day wage slavery ? Yeah, you could call it that. But it's unavoidable when there's plenty of people and not enough jobs. Is that fair for them ? Probably not, but I don't give a damn. And their compatriots certainly don't either. _ Create a character \|\| Fit a ship \|\| Get some ISK
Nebulous Minmatar Thukker Zoku	Posted - 2009.02.14 13:45:00 - [30] Originally by: Akita T Every human life is NOT precious. In my opinion it is Originally by: Akita T Especially not when there's nearly 7 bil of them, There are more than enough rescources to see to it that every person on the planet has an above average lifestyle. Originally by: Akita T Some people will ALWAYS have to take shabby jobs to make a living. Only while money exists, if you take away the finance side of economics like Bankers, stock broker and accountants etc, then 90% of the remaining jobs can be done by machine. Originally by: Akita T Not all people can be engineers or doctors. Thats true, but when you look at the last thing I quoted you on then the only jobs that would need to be done are by doctors and engineers, more than enough people would be willing to do them as well, because we would be helping each other out as opposed to trying to get the better of each other due to money. Originally by: Akita T Is it modern-day wage slavery ? Yeah, you could call it that. But it's unavoidable when there's plenty of people and not enough jobs. As I said earlier most jobs are irrelevant, it is only money driven economy that creates these ridiculous anti human jobs. Originally by: Akita T but I don't give a damn. And this last thing is what highlights a massive problem with human beings at the moment, I don't blame you though because thats how you have been taught to be by the system, but it's not to late to educate yourself of course. --------------------------------

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