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Shoukei
Caldari
Boobs Ahoy
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Posted - 2009.02.14 03:14:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 13/02/2009 22:53:17
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 13/02/2009 22:52:44
As a game designer myself, two things;
- Nice list of things, shows that you have ideas.
- Bad list as you only address issues not totality.
- Worse list 'cause you address only part of the game, not all of it.
- The absolute killer is; you're thinking like a player with no regards to time, effort and cost.
And maybe the worst of all:
- You fail to place it in the riht forum section.
- it is
- eh, what? please give us an example.
- give us an example of how the entire game should be addressed.
- LOL
- forum section is fine. this way someone will at least read it.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.02.14 04:17:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 14/02/2009 04:17:14
signed
on one proviso
nerf officer fit faction BS cloak-mwd-warping :))
SKUNK
(o)
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Ephemeron
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.02.14 06:32:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Edited by: Le Skunk on 14/02/2009 04:17:14
signed
on one proviso
nerf officer fit faction BS cloak-mwd-warping :))
SKUNK
That game feature is essential in allowing big ships to survive gate camps - not 100%, but a good deal of them. Without such mechanic, you would see a lot less of those ships in pvp, thus decreasing your opportunity to kill one in first place. Considering that all my faction bs have died even tho I had cloak-mwd-warping, that tactic is not that overpowered.
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Unforgivin
Caldari
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.02.14 06:50:00 -
[34]
what? |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.14 10:19:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 14/02/2009 10:25:24
Originally by: Shoukei
- it is
- eh, what? please give us an example.
- give us an example of how the entire game should be addressed.
- LOL
- forum section is fine. this way someone will at least read it.
Those replies alone make YOU arther poor at taking feedback. Answering someone "lol", when someone gives constructive critisism on ones work, is not appropriate.
IT's like saying LOL outloud to a marriage proposal.
By the way, i don't "give an example" because i'm not the one working on the game. Why should i use my free time to advance someone elses game?
CCP knows what they want to do they have their plans, stop fiddling with them. It's THEIR game, not yours.
Now, if the OP wants to learn about game design;
Take three ideas, JUST three, rest will never be done, and expand them. Sell them, what makes them good ideas, what makes them bad ideas(if any) and so forth.
I want to see atleast 4 lines from each three ideas.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Demeterus
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.14 10:37:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Take three ideas, JUST three, rest will never be done, and expand them. Sell them, what makes them good ideas, what makes them bad ideas(if any) and so forth.
I want to see atleast 4 lines from each three ideas.
Ideas are cheap. Everyone has ideas. As you no doubt know, a designer takes one of those myriads of ideas everywhere and describes a marketable product. OP:s ideas are not marketable because they only cater to a player with a particular style of play. Ie himself. So, OP has no big picture, and no understanding of the need of a big picture.
---
Why are you reading my sig? Did you expect something of sigs? |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.14 10:38:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Demeterus
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Take three ideas, JUST three, rest will never be done, and expand them. Sell them, what makes them good ideas, what makes them bad ideas(if any) and so forth.
I want to see atleast 4 lines from each three ideas.
Ideas are cheap. Everyone has ideas. As you no doubt know, a designer takes one of those myriads of ideas everywhere and describes a marketable product. OP:s ideas are not marketable because they only cater to a player with a particular style of play. Ie himself. So, OP has no big picture, and no understanding of the need of a big picture.
Kind of the point i'm making, because out of those three exapanded ideas, maybe one goes through and then you have to kill it for PR, other races etc still.
First rule of game design; kill your babies.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Evocationz
Amarr
Terra Nostra
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Posted - 2009.02.14 10:51:00 -
[38]
so to the OP, if u where game deisgner ud make the game awsum for urself
this is hwy they doint employ peopel like u |
Bootya
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Posted - 2009.02.14 11:15:00 -
[39]
On fourth month tritanium supplies would run out and all you hardcore wannabe antibears will have to resort to mining or stop blowing up yarrr! ships.
"carebear" is overrated and ppl like you use it to show how cool they are - when in fact they are not. also, incase you didn't notice: hating em is stupid cause they run "your" game.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2009.02.14 11:39:00 -
[40]
There's a saying I've picked up somewhere over the past few years that sums this up nicely. Given the chance to make one change to their favourite MMO for the better, 95% of people would completely ruin the game in question. To believe yourself to be in that magical remaining 5% with this list of changes is arrogant.
I've posted a lot on game balance and posted a lot of ideas like the mining revamp I posted two years ago but even I will admit I'm not usually in that 5%. It's the same as what Sherif Jones is saying, there's an entire process of editing and refinement that goes into the design process. That's what distills a list of changes like the one you've posted into a smaller list of changes that won't wreck the game. And even then most of the remaining ideas may be found unsuitable for implementation for a variety of other reasons. And for the record, just making a list of changes with absolutely no backing evidence to suggest they're needed is worthless. If you think blasters need 20% more damage or huginns need a web strength bonus, make a case for them.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.14 11:47:00 -
[41]
The one decicion i'd make to improve EVE is to stop listening to the players.
Now it sounds harsh at first, but the facts are these;
Any change will **** someone off.
Any change will make someone else "less".
People are never happy, not even with megakill3000 implants that pop the whole EVEverse at a whim.
So do what you want, change what you see fit, and most importantly let the players know that complaining is useless because "that's how EVE is".
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
KhaniKirai
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Posted - 2009.02.14 11:50:00 -
[42]
A lead designer shouldnt bother with the list of things you posted, thats for one of the teams below him, to actively keep looking for balance.
A lead designer should focus more on how all the things in eve come together and lets face it, thats slowly vaporizing.
Last few years a lot of new things came out, but they barely have anything in common or are connected well to the eve galaxy. It may seems to be fun, all these add-ons to eve, but lets face it, its 1 galaxy and it should all be WELL connected and not so minorly as it is now:
Examples: faction warfare, people still cant tell me, what the benefit for them is, I also heard there are still barely faction shops special for them?
Cosmos and exploration: yeah funny drop a lot of stuff around, most of it only accessible for a few alliances and then just forget it and do nothing with it in game.
Missions and deadspace: I still miss the days, i could see huge giant BS ships close near empire gates, because someone had a mission there. You were looking as noob at it and though: i want that too!!!
Nowadays, they just come with some new themes and idea's put it in, but it barely connects.
Just look on t3 ships, its all based on new stuff, it has no connection with t1 and t2 at all?
It really doesnt make any sense.
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Azermy
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Posted - 2009.02.14 11:53:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Lindsay Logan
Meh, OP has a lot of fail fixes. Shows no knowledge of the whole picture.
Yup.
"i'm going to fix 0.0 SOV mechanics" yes... and how precisely? and how do you plan on doing all that in a few weeks?
You seem to be one of those politicians... spout promises that are completely impossible to accomplish, while bashing "the other man" sorry, but no thanks |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.02.14 12:20:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 14/02/2009 11:48:26
The one decicion i'd make to improve EVE is to stop listening to the players.
Now it sounds harsh at first, but the facts are these;
Any change will **** someone off.
Any change will make someone else "less".
People are never happy, not even with megakill3000 implants that pop the whole EVEverse at a whim.
So do what you want, change what you see fit, and most importantly let the players know that complaining is useless because "that's how EVE is".
I wouldn't expect a detective to listen to a barkeep on how to solve a murder, i don't expect professional game developers to listen to our "common man" on how to do their job.
Your analogue about the detective is pretty horrible(I know you fancy being a law enforcement officer, but you really aren't  ) and I think you know it. Players are not professionals, but they interact with the product constantly and have a pretty good idea when something is working and when it could use improvement. They are also the people CCP has to please to a degree, if they want to keep their own game alive. So it is not stupid to listen to the players. In fact it would be grossly stupid to ignore them.
However it would be stupid to allow players alone to dictate the how the game should be developed. Players are focused on their own little part of the game and their comments should and propably are treated as such. They offer ideas and suggestions, but it is the professional game designer, that manages the big picture and decides what ideas might fit and be feasible to implement.
So I guess in my view the game designer is the one in charge and the players act as an nearly limitless pool of ideas and suggestions, that you can take advantage of. Players know their own little area of specialisation very well and how those could be improved further. Players also actually play the game, so they can tell you how the mechanic that a designer implemented is actually used in the game. Players are pretty resourseful in finding ways to game the system and those loopholes might make the intended design irrelevant. |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2009.02.14 12:35:00 -
[45]
On a similar note, CCP just updated their jobs page. Unfortunately, the update was to take down the "General Application" section. I only found out because I've had the form open in the background for a week while I tidied up my CV. I was hoping to submit a general application and let them see if I look useful enough to hire :/. I applied for a programmer position they are advertising instead but I'm sure my lack of experience with C++ will kill any chance I have with that. 
Ah well, fingers crossed. Still 5 months left until I graduate from uni, maybe they'll get in touch. |
Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.14 12:43:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
This wouldn't make the game anymore hardcore at all. Changes to make the game more hardcore would be like removing CONCORD from high sec and gate guns from low sec as well as letting -10 pirates go through high sec unmolested and nerfing corp hopping to run from wars.
If you think this would make EVE more hardcore you're naive.
Removing CONCORD and entry guns from high-sec would simply make it into low value nullsec.
As a result all those carebears you look down on would kill their accounts (no they wouldn't suddenly turn into enthusiastic combat pilots). With the map now mostly empty and mining, production, trade and even stuff from missioning 95% gone you have not only trouble getting ****s bigger than a T1 frig - but also hardly anybody to gank on.
Well - I guess that is more hardcore - in a way.
This here wins the thread:
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
What's more likely, is you'd take over game design and understand why you couldn't suddenly do every single thing you wanted to, why some of them should not be done, and why there are other things to take care of first.
Words of wisdom.
OPs list is not without "some" merit - but no way he could have get that done in a month without breaking the game - let alone his 3 month plan.
The frack-the-carebears poster would be fun.
But to keep things fairly balanced and there should also be a second poster showing a proud industrialist with upward charts and production lines in the background and a bunch of pvpers haggling deperately for shiny new ships and mods standing in line.
Neither the Raven nor the whatever killed it ships would be there without the carebears making it happen.
Gankers need carebears - and vice versa. |
Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.14 13:03:00 -
[47]
And I especially loved the "I'll fix sov" part.
Deciding to fix it is the easy part. And outsourcing that to the players is not only a lack of game design but also an utter failure to understand human psychology.
The average player makes a terrible game designer. S/he will fix some particular feature that bugged him/her with some *obvious* fix and mess up the game in no time.
Proof for that can easily be found every day here on the forum. And the OPs ideas are emongst the better ones on this forum - not that that's saying much.
And I wish CCP would listen less to what players are demanding. Attribute re-allocation? Horrible idea. I'm sure CCP just got fed up with the constant requests for it.
Won't help them as now people will ask for SP re-allocation or other horrible ideas next - enthused because they eventually got their stupid attribute remix.
Why it is stupid? Because it makes them meaningless. CCP could just as well remove attributes altogether and replace them with a constant average value in the training formula - because that is the long term result of having regular attribute re-allocation in the game.
Allow it once - for noobs - within first few weeks (8-12) in game. That would take care of some horrible newbie mistake that some people seem to suffer from badly for years.
Never understood that myself. So my attributes are not optimized for my chosen skill path all the time. Big deal - I have less SP than I could have compared to some ideal skill training path. Makes for some variety.
---
Save the forum: Think before you post.
ISK BUYER = LOSER
EVE TV- Bring it back!
Laptop, NVidia7900GS, Ubuntu 8.04, WINE |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.14 13:31:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
Your analogue about the detective is pretty horrible(I know you fancy being a law enforcement officer, but you really aren't ) and I think you know it. Players are not professionals, but they interact with the product constantly and have a pretty good idea when something is working and when it could use improvement. They are also the people CCP has to please to a degree, if they want to keep their own game alive. So it is not stupid to listen to the players. In fact it would be grossly stupid to ignore them.
I know you fancy being a psychologists, but you're not 
PLayers usually don't know what's working and what's not. Developers do that. And CCP DOESN'T have to please the players, especially would fit EVE.
Never said ignore the players, just don't do what they ask and make it clear that you're not going to do anything else.
Ripping off ideas from the forums is just some pasttime fun. |
RiotRick
Black-Sun
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.02.14 16:10:00 -
[49]
I would buy that poster 
--
The future is black.
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Scarlet Pimpdaddy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.14 16:19:00 -
[50]
So, in conclusion, you would sort these things to make the game easier for yourself/corp/alliance. Sorry matey, EVE is supposed to be difficult!
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