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Faster ThanJesus
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Posted - 2004.08.06 12:40:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Zrakor
This won't make it to Tranquility. A slight misunderstanding caused this to go out to our test server. Please ignore this, the bounties on NPCs spawned in agent missions will remain the same  .
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Faster ThanJesus
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Posted - 2004.08.06 12:40:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Zrakor
This won't make it to Tranquility. A slight misunderstanding caused this to go out to our test server. Please ignore this, the bounties on NPCs spawned in agent missions will remain the same .
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Nieda
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Posted - 2004.08.06 12:42:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Nieda on 06/08/2004 12:43:11
Originally by: Zrakor
This won't make it to Tranquility. A slight misunderstanding caused this to go out to our test server. Please ignore this, the bounties on NPCs spawned in agent missions will remain the same .
My constructive reply is:
\o/
---------------------------------------------
2004.08.12 14:50:32combatYour 720mm Carbine Howitzer I perfectly strikes Guristas Destructor, wrecking for 543.9 damage. |
Nieda
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Posted - 2004.08.06 12:42:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Nieda on 06/08/2004 12:43:11
Originally by: Zrakor
This won't make it to Tranquility. A slight misunderstanding caused this to go out to our test server. Please ignore this, the bounties on NPCs spawned in agent missions will remain the same .
My constructive reply is:
\o/
---------------------------------------------
2004.08.12 14:50:32combatYour 720mm Carbine Howitzer I perfectly strikes Guristas Destructor, wrecking for 543.9 damage. |
Rancid Mare
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Posted - 2004.08.06 12:54:00 -
[35]
Quote:
Yes I'm aware that I can discuss moderation issues at the frequently quoted email address, and I will do so.
can i suggest that we all follow Sforza's lead and send an email to [email protected] displaying our collective un-happyness with the way this situation is being managed.
Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals.
Our Webby
Recruitement Videos here |
Rancid Mare
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Posted - 2004.08.06 12:54:00 -
[36]
Quote:
Yes I'm aware that I can discuss moderation issues at the frequently quoted email address, and I will do so.
can i suggest that we all follow Sforza's lead and send an email to [email protected] displaying our collective un-happyness with the way this situation is being managed.
Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals.
Our Webby
Recruitement Videos here |
JP Beauregard
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Posted - 2004.08.06 12:57:00 -
[37]
Edited by: JP Beauregard on 06/08/2004 13:08:24
Thank you, Zrakor, for that "clarification". I'm satisfied that our universal outrage helped clear up such a deplorable "misunderstanding".
There go more testing resources, squandered on a "misunderstanding", though one that was merely "slight". Wonder what Shiva will be called three days after release 
JP Beauregard
=== The Pilkington Guides to EVE === |
JP Beauregard
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Posted - 2004.08.06 12:57:00 -
[38]
Edited by: JP Beauregard on 06/08/2004 13:08:24
Thank you, Zrakor, for that "clarification". I'm satisfied that our universal outrage helped clear up such a deplorable "misunderstanding".
There go more testing resources, squandered on a "misunderstanding", though one that was merely "slight". Wonder what Shiva will be called three days after release
JP Beauregard
=== The Pilkington Guides to EVE === |
Eelai
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Posted - 2004.08.06 13:05:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Eelai on 06/08/2004 13:08:36
Edit : Sorry was typing that before dev. posted. Part about the nerf taken apart, I still believe in what I just posted.
I just came across this topic and being a young player I would also like to give my point of view.
As I am playing under the 14 days trial, I am still trying to figure out if I should suscribe to the game. I keep looking on different forums to have several points of view (especially to get infos about how is the end game) and to be honest I am shocked by the number of people arguing that this game is too much mining dependent.
Personnaly, I hate mining. There is nothing appealing in this and I am not alone to think is. So most of my time is spent running missions for agent and thus this is my main and only ISK in-come.
I have tried mining a bit at the beginning and I know it is more efficient to do mindless safe runs in 1.0 newbie sectors if you want fast money, but still, running missions isn't that bad thanks to the bounty rewards.
Thus, I believe that, for low levels, and for the futur of this game, such a nerf would be like if CCP were shooting themselves in the foot. Just have a look at any Eve forum : most of the people thinking the game "sucks" is because there is "nothing else but mining".
You can argue they are just trolling and haven't put any effort in the game, the fact is if they use such an argument most of the time, it may be true in a way.
So, that's why I hope devs are planning to promote others way of playing than mining (because most of the time I am reading comments in the rookie help channel it looks like mining is the only way to succeed at low level : this is far from being the best way to promote Eve). But if such a nerf is applied, I highly doubt it and seriously I doubt I will bother continue playing after my trial, and I am certain I am not alone to think this.
You can add whatever about how great is the end game, young players won't accept to do months of boring mining while waiting their skills are high enough to be able to offer a ship good enough to take part in PvP or travel in 0.0.
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Eelai
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Posted - 2004.08.06 13:05:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Eelai on 06/08/2004 13:08:36
Edit : Sorry was typing that before dev. posted. Part about the nerf taken apart, I still believe in what I just posted.
I just came across this topic and being a young player I would also like to give my point of view.
As I am playing under the 14 days trial, I am still trying to figure out if I should suscribe to the game. I keep looking on different forums to have several points of view (especially to get infos about how is the end game) and to be honest I am shocked by the number of people arguing that this game is too much mining dependent.
Personnaly, I hate mining. There is nothing appealing in this and I am not alone to think is. So most of my time is spent running missions for agent and thus this is my main and only ISK in-come.
I have tried mining a bit at the beginning and I know it is more efficient to do mindless safe runs in 1.0 newbie sectors if you want fast money, but still, running missions isn't that bad thanks to the bounty rewards.
Thus, I believe that, for low levels, and for the futur of this game, such a nerf would be like if CCP were shooting themselves in the foot. Just have a look at any Eve forum : most of the people thinking the game "sucks" is because there is "nothing else but mining".
You can argue they are just trolling and haven't put any effort in the game, the fact is if they use such an argument most of the time, it may be true in a way.
So, that's why I hope devs are planning to promote others way of playing than mining (because most of the time I am reading comments in the rookie help channel it looks like mining is the only way to succeed at low level : this is far from being the best way to promote Eve). But if such a nerf is applied, I highly doubt it and seriously I doubt I will bother continue playing after my trial, and I am certain I am not alone to think this.
You can add whatever about how great is the end game, young players won't accept to do months of boring mining while waiting their skills are high enough to be able to offer a ship good enough to take part in PvP or travel in 0.0.
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Malius
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Posted - 2004.08.06 13:08:00 -
[41]
Well, I'll believe it's not being put on TQ when you actually patch TQ. Seen too many things that 'weren't supposed to go to TQ' make it anyway.
Sorry to point out the clouds in the silver lining.
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Malius
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Posted - 2004.08.06 13:08:00 -
[42]
Well, I'll believe it's not being put on TQ when you actually patch TQ. Seen too many things that 'weren't supposed to go to TQ' make it anyway.
Sorry to point out the clouds in the silver lining.
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2004.08.06 13:49:00 -
[43]
Edited by: X'Alor on 06/08/2004 13:52:33
Quit nerfing the agents period.
this is the second time you've given the agent system something good and showed us .....hey guys look what we can do for ya, oooops never mind whining so we'll pull it now.
I say make your missions as your planning.
Everyone that has chosen to be a pirate or 00 pilot corp member has chosen to.
If they can't find this info on how important an aspect that agents were going to be as a part of EVE, again their choice not to read.
If it upsets people that pilots in good corporate standings are rewarded for that........bummer, get over it. you made your choices.
If you went to 00 specifically to hunt BS and did not know about the agent BS.......again bummer, read and learn.
Now people are whining about empire space BS named items and want no named items to drop.....I mean come on already.
I say make the missions hard, if people are doing higher lvl harder missions they accept the possibility of destruction of ship.........um insurance. isn't that why it's their. just cuz your in empire space and you take on a mission spawns does not mean they can't kick your azz.
What 00 blockades and pirates do to players is what we(mission runners) do to NPC's. so what's the big dang deal already?
Mission runners have chosen to be empire space pilots looking for their "just" rewards for working for NPC mega corps and completing task they need done. They are offering work for anyone who has standing to accept them. Just cuz one ca accept a mission does not mean they should automatically be able to complete it.
what wrong with options BS kills in Lvl 3 agents?
I say make your missions, fix the bugs. let us die in them. Make it a news post or forum post saying...........
"IF YOU ACCEPT A MISSION AND DIE TRYING IT'S YOUR OWN DANG FAULT AND "NO" PETITIONS ON "MY MISSION KILLED MY BS" OR ANY OTHER SHIP WILL BE REPLACED."
Evidentally people are forgeting there are other things to do in eve than sit in a 00 blockade, or gate ganking. Eve does have a PvE realm thru the missions and agents and if someone doesn't like that fact.......bummer get over it already.
Don't take our(mission runners) just rewards away yet AGAIN.
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2004.08.06 13:49:00 -
[44]
Edited by: X'Alor on 06/08/2004 13:52:33
Quit nerfing the agents period.
this is the second time you've given the agent system something good and showed us .....hey guys look what we can do for ya, oooops never mind whining so we'll pull it now.
I say make your missions as your planning.
Everyone that has chosen to be a pirate or 00 pilot corp member has chosen to.
If they can't find this info on how important an aspect that agents were going to be as a part of EVE, again their choice not to read.
If it upsets people that pilots in good corporate standings are rewarded for that........bummer, get over it. you made your choices.
If you went to 00 specifically to hunt BS and did not know about the agent BS.......again bummer, read and learn.
Now people are whining about empire space BS named items and want no named items to drop.....I mean come on already.
I say make the missions hard, if people are doing higher lvl harder missions they accept the possibility of destruction of ship.........um insurance. isn't that why it's their. just cuz your in empire space and you take on a mission spawns does not mean they can't kick your azz.
What 00 blockades and pirates do to players is what we(mission runners) do to NPC's. so what's the big dang deal already?
Mission runners have chosen to be empire space pilots looking for their "just" rewards for working for NPC mega corps and completing task they need done. They are offering work for anyone who has standing to accept them. Just cuz one ca accept a mission does not mean they should automatically be able to complete it.
what wrong with options BS kills in Lvl 3 agents?
I say make your missions, fix the bugs. let us die in them. Make it a news post or forum post saying...........
"IF YOU ACCEPT A MISSION AND DIE TRYING IT'S YOUR OWN DANG FAULT AND "NO" PETITIONS ON "MY MISSION KILLED MY BS" OR ANY OTHER SHIP WILL BE REPLACED."
Evidentally people are forgeting there are other things to do in eve than sit in a 00 blockade, or gate ganking. Eve does have a PvE realm thru the missions and agents and if someone doesn't like that fact.......bummer get over it already.
Don't take our(mission runners) just rewards away yet AGAIN.
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Captin Zoom
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Posted - 2004.08.06 14:33:00 -
[45]
Waiting for battleship missions when a pack of interceptors jam/web/scramble me or if they use cloaked ships to get close and battleships warp on top of me that would be a challenge but since people whine it will probably not happen anytime not even when level 4 are implemented.
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Captin Zoom
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Posted - 2004.08.06 14:33:00 -
[46]
Waiting for battleship missions when a pack of interceptors jam/web/scramble me or if they use cloaked ships to get close and battleships warp on top of me that would be a challenge but since people whine it will probably not happen anytime not even when level 4 are implemented.
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Hematic
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Posted - 2004.08.06 15:07:00 -
[47]
I think a nerf to bounties would be uncalled for when doing agent missions.
The solution should work in a way that is fair for the amount of time spent on a mission.
Mission payouts should reflect the following:
1) How many cargo holds are needed to complete.
2) How many jumps/docks total are required to complete this would include getting BACK to the agent when they leave you in BFE.
3) How tough/many the NPCs are to fight.
By and large I prefer kill missions. They are less boring mainly and the bounty/loot is better. You also get the bonus of a miniscule sec status gain (better than nothing).
I agree balancing is needed between the two types. But for the love of god don't bring it down to the LEAST common denominator. Bring cargo missions UP to balance.
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Hematic
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Posted - 2004.08.06 15:07:00 -
[48]
I think a nerf to bounties would be uncalled for when doing agent missions.
The solution should work in a way that is fair for the amount of time spent on a mission.
Mission payouts should reflect the following:
1) How many cargo holds are needed to complete.
2) How many jumps/docks total are required to complete this would include getting BACK to the agent when they leave you in BFE.
3) How tough/many the NPCs are to fight.
By and large I prefer kill missions. They are less boring mainly and the bounty/loot is better. You also get the bonus of a miniscule sec status gain (better than nothing).
I agree balancing is needed between the two types. But for the love of god don't bring it down to the LEAST common denominator. Bring cargo missions UP to balance.
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obscuroditus
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Posted - 2004.08.06 16:57:00 -
[49]
First of all I would like to thank Zrakor for clearing this misunderstanding up, his feedback was timely enough and hard needed.
I would like to emphasise that current L3 agent mission running should be subject of some loving, not limiting. The introduction of the sabotage mission was excellent, except that some of the baddies were too easy to take down - this could have been fixed by for example spawning three randomly equipped BS (random as in, not the same each time ofcourse) - a type set for armor tanking, a type set for longrange, a blaster version, a MWD version etc.
This would limit the number of people going in with a single setup everytime and shooting them off the easy way, yet still encourage the more experiened players to go agent mission running and get rewarded for it (or shot).
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obscuroditus
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Posted - 2004.08.06 16:57:00 -
[50]
First of all I would like to thank Zrakor for clearing this misunderstanding up, his feedback was timely enough and hard needed.
I would like to emphasise that current L3 agent mission running should be subject of some loving, not limiting. The introduction of the sabotage mission was excellent, except that some of the baddies were too easy to take down - this could have been fixed by for example spawning three randomly equipped BS (random as in, not the same each time ofcourse) - a type set for armor tanking, a type set for longrange, a blaster version, a MWD version etc.
This would limit the number of people going in with a single setup everytime and shooting them off the easy way, yet still encourage the more experiened players to go agent mission running and get rewarded for it (or shot).
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Percivs
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Posted - 2004.08.06 17:40:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Percivs on 06/08/2004 17:42:16
I'm glad to see that the Dev's have already indicated that this should never have made it to Entropy and is not intended to be released to Tranquility.
That said, I think some comment on agent missions might be useful (as others have already volunteered their opinions) feedback to the Devs as they were obviously thinking something when they put this in...
If there is a perception that Courier vs. Kill missions need balancing, then I must agree with the other commentators on this topic:
Bring Courier mission pay up, not kill mission pay down.
As it is, I can make more money doing anything else. I can hunt cruiser rats in perimeter space (0.1-0.4) and make almost 700k an hour. I can mine and make several million an hour (just the mining, not counting the selling/hauling time.) I can produce stuff and sell it on market for 8-12M per week easily. But if I do agent missions, I'm lucky if I get 500-600k an hour.
All of the above numbers are assuming that I don't stop to pick up the rat loot. These are "pure bounty", "mineral value" and "pure bounty/agent reward" numbers.
Granted when I do agent missions I get refinable modules and scads of useless small projectile ammo, but since the kill mission pay typically accounts for 60-75% of the pay on a per mission basis, if the nerf was put in I'd be looking at getting millions of rounds of useless small ammo from a L3 agent, a few middle of the road modules, and 62.5-70% (100% minus half of 60-75% (or 30-37.5%)) of what I currently make on agent missions. Which would reduce an already low paying activity from about 600k per hour (assuming I don't stop to loot, or get someone else to loot the cans and split the loot with them) to about 375k to 420k in mission rat bounties + agent rewards. (Some may wonder why I do agent missions at all? Because I'm still hoping for spare implants to replace my current implant after my next (unavoidable) podding  )
And of course, one needs ask the all important question. Why is that agent runners would be subject to a nerf on rat bounties but miners would not?
As you can tell, I'm against this nerf. I think that things are fairly balanced as it is presently, and if anything, courier missions need a small boost if you want to change anything.
But, I'm not all that dedicated that either, since as it was pointed out earlier, those who do kill missions often have consumable costs (ammo) and higher risk in killing the rats. This means that the "profit to cost ratio" is lower than in doing courier missions. The only cost in courier missions is time. The cost in kill missions is time+ammo.
Disclaimer: All the numbers above are for solo activities. None of this has anything to do with the fabled "Level 4" agents due Soon(tm). It's a mistake, imho, to pre-nerf agent missions on the premise that L4 agents will change the face of agent missions.
---
"All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E. |
Percivs
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Posted - 2004.08.06 17:40:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Percivs on 06/08/2004 17:42:16
I'm glad to see that the Dev's have already indicated that this should never have made it to Entropy and is not intended to be released to Tranquility.
That said, I think some comment on agent missions might be useful (as others have already volunteered their opinions) feedback to the Devs as they were obviously thinking something when they put this in...
If there is a perception that Courier vs. Kill missions need balancing, then I must agree with the other commentators on this topic:
Bring Courier mission pay up, not kill mission pay down.
As it is, I can make more money doing anything else. I can hunt cruiser rats in perimeter space (0.1-0.4) and make almost 700k an hour. I can mine and make several million an hour (just the mining, not counting the selling/hauling time.) I can produce stuff and sell it on market for 8-12M per week easily. But if I do agent missions, I'm lucky if I get 500-600k an hour.
All of the above numbers are assuming that I don't stop to pick up the rat loot. These are "pure bounty", "mineral value" and "pure bounty/agent reward" numbers.
Granted when I do agent missions I get refinable modules and scads of useless small projectile ammo, but since the kill mission pay typically accounts for 60-75% of the pay on a per mission basis, if the nerf was put in I'd be looking at getting millions of rounds of useless small ammo from a L3 agent, a few middle of the road modules, and 62.5-70% (100% minus half of 60-75% (or 30-37.5%)) of what I currently make on agent missions. Which would reduce an already low paying activity from about 600k per hour (assuming I don't stop to loot, or get someone else to loot the cans and split the loot with them) to about 375k to 420k in mission rat bounties + agent rewards. (Some may wonder why I do agent missions at all? Because I'm still hoping for spare implants to replace my current implant after my next (unavoidable) podding )
And of course, one needs ask the all important question. Why is that agent runners would be subject to a nerf on rat bounties but miners would not?
As you can tell, I'm against this nerf. I think that things are fairly balanced as it is presently, and if anything, courier missions need a small boost if you want to change anything.
But, I'm not all that dedicated that either, since as it was pointed out earlier, those who do kill missions often have consumable costs (ammo) and higher risk in killing the rats. This means that the "profit to cost ratio" is lower than in doing courier missions. The only cost in courier missions is time. The cost in kill missions is time+ammo.
Disclaimer: All the numbers above are for solo activities. None of this has anything to do with the fabled "Level 4" agents due Soon(tm). It's a mistake, imho, to pre-nerf agent missions on the premise that L4 agents will change the face of agent missions.
---
"All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field" - A.E. |
Mitchman
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Posted - 2004.08.06 18:28:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Zrakor
This won't make it to Tranquility. A slight misunderstanding caused this to go out to our test server. Please ignore this, the bounties on NPCs spawned in agent missions will remain the same .
Thank you. Now, can we have back the Sabotaged mission for the BS spawn, please? Only thing making it worth doing agent mission for me...
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Mitchman
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Posted - 2004.08.06 18:28:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Zrakor
This won't make it to Tranquility. A slight misunderstanding caused this to go out to our test server. Please ignore this, the bounties on NPCs spawned in agent missions will remain the same .
Thank you. Now, can we have back the Sabotaged mission for the BS spawn, please? Only thing making it worth doing agent mission for me...
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Pesadilla
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Posted - 2004.08.08 19:25:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Pesadilla on 08/08/2004 19:26:37
Originally by: Zrakor
This won't make it to Tranquility. A slight misunderstanding caused this to go out to our test server. Please ignore this, the bounties on NPCs spawned in agent missions will remain the same .
Isnt anyone else interested what the orignial "make xyz half" was?
-----
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Pesadilla
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Posted - 2004.08.08 19:25:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Pesadilla on 08/08/2004 19:26:37
Originally by: Zrakor
This won't make it to Tranquility. A slight misunderstanding caused this to go out to our test server. Please ignore this, the bounties on NPCs spawned in agent missions will remain the same .
Isnt anyone else interested what the orignial "make xyz half" was?
-----
|
Hematic
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Posted - 2004.08.08 20:51:00 -
[57]
Still would be nice to see missions weighted for their time/risk involvement.
People forced to fly through Obe and other dangerous systems ought to get a bigger bonus then staying in .5 and above.
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Hematic
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Posted - 2004.08.08 20:51:00 -
[58]
Still would be nice to see missions weighted for their time/risk involvement.
People forced to fly through Obe and other dangerous systems ought to get a bigger bonus then staying in .5 and above.
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Sherkaner
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Posted - 2004.08.10 10:02:00 -
[59]
Please keep the thread free of flames and personal attacks.
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Sherkaner
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Posted - 2004.08.10 10:02:00 -
[60]
Please keep the thread free of flames and personal attacks.
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