| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Gysan Cloudmantle
   |
Posted - 2009.02.14 18:00:00 -
[1]
Ok this is my first post and I thought that this area would be best for my discussion, but im sorry if i've posted in the wrong area. I am just under a month away from piloting a marauder for lv4 running. My problem is this, which one do I choose between the Vargur or Kronos? I have the skills to run both and use both their proffered guns (blasters and autocannons) so which would you suggest, here are my two set ups:
Vargur:
Hi-1200 heavy 'scout' artillery x 4
Salvager x 2
Tractor Beam x 1
Mid-Caldari Navy X-large shield booster x 1
Shield Boost amplifier Tech 2 x 1
Invulnerability Field tech 2 x 2
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field x 1
Target Painter x 1
Low-Capacitor power relay tech 2 x 2
Capacitor flux coil tech 2 x 2
True sansha power diagnositc system
Rigs-CCC x 2
Dps 272
Kronos:
Hi-Neutron Blaster cannon tech 2 x 4
Salavager x 2
Tractor beam x 1
Mid-Cap recharger tech 2 x3
Tracking computer tech 2 x 1 (optimal range script)
Low-Large armor repairer tech 2 x 2
Resistance hardners (em, therm etc) tech 2 x 4 ( 2 of each)
Capacitor power relay tech 2 x 2
Rig-CCC x 2
Dps 506
Now i've got these on EFT (btw anyone who could show me how to link these from that program would make me very grateful) and on here it looks like Kronos is the clear winner yet when i compare the defense rating from EFT ( Vargur:-930 Kronos:-555) i start to wonder. Also you might be wondering why i went for perma tanks, iv had far too many disconnections and lag that have resulted in a loss of a ship, im not letting it happen to this ship which im investing alot of isk into.
Thank you for any guidance and support you can provide.
(I'll be happy to discuss any irregularities or strangeness in these builds, im just after help)
|
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2009.02.14 18:11:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Gysan Cloudmantle
(I'll be happy to discuss any irregularities or strangeness in these builds, im just after help)
I'd say that one irregularity (from my point of view) is that you're getting damage output and defense ratings that are lower than what I get out of my half-skilled L4 HAC setups… 
Since I'm allergic to slowmobiles, I can't personally say where you're going wrong — I can only say that something must be out of whack with either the setups and the skills.
A lack of drones, maybe?
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Gysan Cloudmantle
|
Posted - 2009.02.14 18:28:00 -
[3]
Good point, neither have drone dps added in, new dps figures are (using medium tech 2 drones) Vargur:- 413 Kronos:- 647, also I guess that the reason for such low dps is me being obsessed about having a perma repairing tank, I just cant afford to micro manage on my internet connection.
Thanks for the help regardless.
|
KaerBerohs
Amarr
PREDATOR THE MOVIE
|
Posted - 2009.02.14 19:07:00 -
[4]
I would consider autocannons on your vargur. The ship bonuses let you get a very nice range for ACs.
-Boz
|
Jessica Fyers
Gallente
Azure Horizon
|
Posted - 2009.02.14 21:14:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Jessica Fyers on 14/02/2009 21:20:13
Edited by: Jessica Fyers on 14/02/2009 21:16:14
Actually, you've done an inverse fitting here, going for long range guns on the Vargur and short range on the Kronos, where it should be the other way around. I fly both ships and this is what i use.
1) Kronos:
4x 425mm railgunn II (antimatter ammo)
2x Salvager
1x Tractor Beam
1x Tracking Computer II (+ tracking speed script)
1x Gallente Navy Stasis Webifier
2x Cap Recharger II
1x Large Armor Repairer II
3x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
1x EANM II
2x Mission Specific Active Armor Hardeners t2 (like, 1x kinetic + 1x thermal vs Serpentis)
Drones: t2 lights and 3x Berserker SW-900
Rigs: 1x Auxilliary Nano Pump I and 1x CCC I
2) Vargur:
4x 800mm Repeating Artillery II (fusion, EMP, phased plasma - depending on mission rat types)
2x Salvager
1x Tractor
2x Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster
2x Invulnerability Field II
1x Shield Boost Amplifier II
1x Stasis Webifier II
1x Damage Control II
4x Gyrostabilizer II
Drones: 5x t2 light, 2x Berserker SW-900 (heavy webber)
Rigs: 2x Projectile Ambit Extension I (increases fallof range)
On the whole, the Vargur is better than the Kronos in most cases, both in terms of tank and DPS; also, its shield tank permaruns, while the Kronos' will run out after a few minutes. However, you shouldnt have that much trouble killing stuff fast enough not to have to tank a lot. Too much tank is counterproductive.
Range on Kronos is around 60km, on Vargur around 45km, but i dont really care, as i prefer to salvage and loot in one go, otherwise i'd be flying a Megathron and/ or Maelstrom.
If you must fly these ships, i stronlgy suggest you fix whatever connection probs you got.
PS: and btw, EFT is never taking into account human factor, NPC behaviour and whatnot, its just a tool churning out numbers based on the info you give it - never used it myself. If a setup doesnt work, back to the drawing board. And you know whether a setup works or not by using t1 ships anyway, you dont go bling in missions flying a Marauder.
Edit: forgot the drones on Kronos and ammo types used in both 
----------------------------------------------
Some people say you should fight fire with fire... Nonsense of course; you should fight everything with fire! |
Iron Eater
|
Posted - 2009.02.16 18:18:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Iron Eater on 16/02/2009 18:20:35
I neither fly the Vagur nor the Cronos, but I have a lot of L4 experience.
Imo a tank of 700dps with rat specific hardeners is more than sufficient to do L4 missions successfully. You really dont need two large armor reppers.
Replace the second repper and the two cap power relays by heat sinks. Then you got nice damage output and a sufficient tank.
PS: In EFT, sustained defence efficiency is the tank without activating the boosters/reppers. Reinforced defence efficieny is the tank with boosters/reppers running.
By default, EFT calculates the tank assuming that the opponent does the same damage over every damage type. You may change that by right-clicking the field "Defence". That way you can calculate your tank according to specific types of rats and determine the best rat-specific hardeners.
The 700dps above mean rat-specific damage. This equals to about 250-300dps when using the default EFT-setting "uniform distribution" and hardeners equally distributed over all damage types.
Sorry for the double post, I didn't read the previous post properly.
|
Pwett
Minmatar
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
|
Posted - 2009.02.16 19:36:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Iron Eater
PS: In EFT, sustained defence efficiency is the tank without activating the boosters/reppers. Reinforced defence efficieny is the tank with boosters/reppers running.
Sustained = cap stable portion of the defense
Reinforced = all on
If you're cap-stable; sustained = reinforced.
_______________
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
Item Database
|
Gysan Cloudmantle
|
Posted - 2009.02.17 00:30:00 -
[8]
Thanks alot for the responces, I love the idea of the double pith B types :D i would have never come up with that and the autocannons are a must, iv been shown that now.
The set up youve provided seems perfect, although what is the miss rate? Would be removing a gyro for a low slot targetting computer (forgotten the name) be required?
Thanks alot for this guys, iv had a fair amount of experience with lvl 4's but iv always 2manned them with me in straight out dps first in a mega, then crossing over to minmatar battleships for the changable damage types.
I worked my way up to a Machariel and then my mission runnner buddy grabbed himself a Golem and i wasnt needed anymore :S my macchy collected dust because i felt i could never equip it for lvl 4 running safely, i dont know why id risk a marauder instead but it feels safer. Pretty much anything to get me out of this grind of lvl 3's in a perfectly functional but boring domi.
Cheers
|
Rip Minner
|
Posted - 2009.02.17 00:36:00 -
[9]
I like to have a large tank too.
I personly like the Kronos better do to its larger drone bay. I use this to pack 3xboucer 2's and 5x light tech's. The lights handle any small ships for you and the bouncers do nicely on bs bc and slower cruisers.
High slots are fitted with 2xlarge rails and 2xlarge blasters pluse 4xdrone links for the bouncers I have a salvage ship to come back with. Its just faster that way to me. But with out the drone links any drones you use will only have a 45km range. I have two and two of each gun type becouse they are both like 4 rails and 4 blasters works nicely.
Kronos Heavy perma tank:
Mids
4x Cap rechargers tech 2
Lows
2x Large amor repairer tech 2's or Navy ps. Navy is better.
4 slots for armor hardners missions verys.
1xCapacitor power relay tech 2
rig
1x ccc
with good cap skills you only need the ccc rig for perma tank. I use a hybird weapon rig in the other slot.
EFT ratings
Tank with mission hardners 1576/1576 dps 667 volly3133 with bouncer 2's out.
|
Irdia Freelancer
|
Posted - 2009.02.17 02:32:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Rip Minner
with out the drone links any drones you use will only have a 45km range
There are 2 skills that increase drone range. More like 60km when skills fully trained.
|
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
|
Posted - 2009.02.17 02:42:00 -
[11]
I use a similar Vargur setup, it permatanks every single level 4 mission in the game, though unfortunately it has some trouble breaking one of the battleship tanks in mordus somethingother mission.
I wouldn't trade it for anything though since being able to go afk whenever i feel like it is awesome, especially since im usually watching a movie and forget im doing a mission half the time 
---------------------------
[Coreli Corporation] |
Terminus Vindictus
|
Posted - 2009.02.17 03:09:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Gysan Cloudmantle
Vargur:
.
.
.
Dps 272
err... if you only get 272 DPS out of a Vargur, then you're not ready to fly one. Period. That's hella-lame DPS output, and you can do better in a cruiser.
|
small chimp
|
Posted - 2009.02.17 12:26:00 -
[13]
Damage mods are noob's choice!
|
Gysan Cloudmantle
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 00:30:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Gysan Cloudmantle on 18/02/2009 00:31:03
Originally by: Terminus Vindictus
Edited by: Terminus Vindictus on 17/02/2009 03:17:14
Originally by: Gysan Cloudmantle
Vargur:
.
.
.
Dps 272
I have the skills to run both and use both their proffered guns....
err... if you only get 272 DPS out of a Vargur, then you're not ready to fly one. Period. That's hella-lame DPS output, and you can do better in a cruiser.
I've got lvl 5 skills in all core gunnery skills (except falloff bonus, lvl 4) and gotten blaster and autocannon specialisation to lvl 4. What your commenting on is a Artillery build with no gyros or drones dps added in, please read, i just wanted advice not someone trying to look good at flaming. I've got 23 million skill points, 9m in gunnery alone, its not alot but it should be sufficient to run these ships.
|
Terminus Vindictus
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 04:06:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Gysan Cloudmantle
What your commenting on is a Artillery build with no gyros or drones dps added in, please read, i just wanted advice not someone trying to look good at flaming.
It wasn't a flame. It was an honest assessment of your setup.
|
Gysan Cloudmantle
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 23:34:00 -
[16]
Then i apologise, sorry i missunderstood, iv spent a while waiting for this and hearing that its all for naught pushes a sore area for me.
Sorry
|
Xano Heroma
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2009.02.19 11:19:00 -
[17]
any gun boat should have at the very least 2 gun upgrades (Gyrostabilize/Heat sinks)
preferable 3 or even better 4 
especialy the marauders are best for dps-tanking !
 my paladin uses 4 Heat sinks, in halv the missions they don't even go through my shield to armor. and I have NO doubt that it will be the same with both Vargur and the Kronus
if you are one of those AFK mission runner types I strongly recomment the Dominix or a missile boat, they are better for AFK'ing 
2 x reppers on a marauder is overkill friend, 1 will be fine.
|
Yoshito Kae'un
|
Posted - 2009.02.20 09:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Xano Heroma
preferable 3 or even better 4
my paladin uses 4 Heat sinks, in halv the missions they don't even go through my shield to armor.
2 x reppers on a marauder is overkill friend, 1 will be fine.
I thought that at you could only benefit from maximum 3 gunupgrades? Correct me if im wrong.
|
Jade Vendetta
Gallente
The Babylon5 Consortuim
|
Posted - 2009.02.20 10:21:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Jade Vendetta on 20/02/2009 10:23:46
Originally by: Yo****o Kae'un
I thought that at you could only benefit from maximum 3 gunupgrades? Correct me if im wrong.
Well, conventional wisdom is that with anything stacking penalized, the benefits of adding a fourth module is too little to be worth it (you get approximately 1/4th the bonus), but if you got all the other bases covered (tank and cap) then why not add a fourth :)
Ofc, adding a Tracking Enhancer instead might (probably will) give you better actual dps
|
vanBuskirk
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.02.20 19:20:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Iron Eater
Replace the second repper and the two cap power relays by heat sinks. Then you got nice damage output and a sufficient tank.
Sorry to be picky, but fitting heatsinks to a Kronos is unlikely to do much if you're fitting the guns it's designed for.
----------------------------------------------
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
|
Pwett
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
|
Posted - 2009.02.20 19:23:00 -
[21]
The Law of the Vargur
Rule 1:
A Vargur MUST have 4 Republic Fleet Gyro's in its lows; no questions asked.
I recommend the 5th low being a DCII, but that is up to you. 
_______________
<Q> QUANT Hegemony
Item Database
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |