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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 40 post(s) |
Elijah Craig
Trask Industries Li3 Federation
27
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Posted - 2012.06.13 19:03:00 -
[91] - Quote
Selissa Shadoe wrote:Elijah Craig wrote:Frankly I am hella bored of reading about this tedious tinfoil hat topic. And yet you still clicked on the topic, read it and posted your viewpoint. If you don't care or are bored with it, stop reading :)
Nope, I clicked on the topic "Inferno 1.1, Changes to the War Dec system" not "OMG CCP are Designing the game for Goons".
I commented because that other thread became silted up with endless repetition of the same tinfoil rubbish and I am dismayed this thread is going the same way. There is a debate to be had about a number of issues around the wardec subject and the way this newly revisted mechanic could evolve, but this endless repetitioIsis yet another thread is stifling that debate.
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Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
159
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 19:10:00 -
[92] - Quote
TBH, goonswarm doesn't care about empire for the most part. It's a playground to visit, buy stuff in, and cause chaos in general. Anyway, :words: because people are confused about this patch.
Here is a break down of our wars. We have approximately 8,901 members in Goonswarm Federation right now, though I'd be surprised if more than 50 were down in empire taking part in these wars. We do have a lot of dumb pilots who ignore war decs though and try to buy something in Jita, dying on the undock!
Quote:Goonswarm Fed vs Mabrick Mining and Manufacturing (3 members) 0 Allies 0 kills, 0 losses
Goonswarm Fed vs Paladin Noesis (2 members) 0 Allies 0 kills, 0 losses
Goonswarm Fed vs Paladin Philanthropists (3 members) 0 Allies 0 kills, 0 losses
Goonswarm Fed vs The Honda Accord (154 members) (http://evewho.com/alli/The+Honda+Accord) 38 Allies 40 kills, 341 losses (7 bil killed, 17.8 bil lost)
Goonswarm Fed vs The Star Fraction (70 members (http://evewho.com/alli/The+Star+Fraction) 40 Allies 19 kills, 62 losses (1.4 bil killed, 10.2 bil lost)
So, to replicate this circumstance in this new system, Honda and Star Fraction would have to spend approximately 1.4 Quintillion and 5.5 Quintillion respectively (short system). Versus the Inferno War dec system, which cost 0. Now, if you have significant resources to protect, 10 allies is 20 bil, which is somewhat reasonable. But you better choose your mercs wisely! I also assure you that we will have similar losses in the new system as well, we are bad at eve.
The current system is obviously broken, this is not the merc system as was requested. It's not like goonswarm is showing up in groups of 400 in empire to kill one small group either. We're showing up in packs of two's and four's to gank haulers and industrials. And we are losing tons of single pilots on jita undock, because we have dumb pilots.
In the end, you have to hire competent mercenaries that can protect your assets with small groups with a fleet doctrine and you'll be fine. Hiring the entire universe to defend you is crazy talk. Also, why would people hire mercenaries if they can get some people to randomly show up for free? Give people a reason to hire the best mercenaries rather than just gankers. Hiring a group like the Privateers is great if you want them to sit on Jita undock and pop random goons. But to protect you in the belts and hauling, that takes a real mercenary crew.
Also, I made this quick spreadsheet to demonstrate the lunacy of attempting 50 allies. This should go in the wiki but ... :effort:
Quote: 1 ally = 0 Million 2 allies = 10 Million 3 allies = 30 Million 4 allies = 70 Million 5 allies = 150 Million 6 allies = 310 Million 7 allies = 630 Million 8 allies = 1 Billion 9 allies = 2 Billion 10 allies = 5 Billion 11 allies = 10 Billion 12 allies = 20 Billion 13 allies = 40 Billion 14 allies = 81 Billion 15 allies = 163 Billion 16 allies = 327 Billion 17 allies = 655 Billion 18 allies = 1 Trillion 19 allies = 2 Trillion 20 allies = 5 Trillion 21 allies = 10 Trillion 22 allies = 20 Trillion 23 allies = 41 Trillion 24 allies = 83 Trillion 25 allies = 167 Trillion 26 allies = 335 Trillion 27 allies = 671 Trillion 28 allies = 1 Quadrillion 29 allies = 2 Quadrillion 30 allies = 5 Quadrillion 31 allies = 10 Quadrillion 32 allies = 21 Quadrillion 33 allies = 42 Quadrillion 34 allies = 85 Quadrillion 35 allies = 171 Quadrillion 36 allies = 343 Quadrillion 37 allies = 687 Quadrillion 38 allies = 1 Quintillion 39 allies = 2 Quintillion 40 allies = 5 Quintillion 41 allies = 10 Quintillion 42 allies = 21 Quintillion 43 allies = 43 Quintillion 44 allies = 87 Quintillion 45 allies = 175 Quintillion 46 allies = 351 Quintillion 47 allies = 703 Quintillion 48 allies = 1 Sextillion 49 allies = 2 Sextillion 50 allies = 5 Sextillion
PS, if CCP were working for us, Super Capitals and Titans would be removed from the game. Nice troll though! |
Rrama Ratamnim
Phoenix Evolved Part Duo
55
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 19:22:00 -
[93] - Quote
Aleph Phi wrote:devblog wrote:Lastly, there is a new skill out there, called Armor Resistance Phasing. It reduces the cycle time of Reactive Armor Hardeners (or, well, the one that currently exists) by 10% per level. This skill costs ca. 600k, has a skill rank of 5 and is sold wherever good skill books are sold (i.e. the usual places). Reduced Cycle time? While I'm all for a skill to make reactive armor hardeners adapt faster, this isn't a good way to go about it. Here's why: Neutralization vulnerability. A module with a shorter cycle time is far more prone to being deactivated by capacitor warfare -- particularly when you're relying on a capacitor booster to keep your hardeners running. This is particularly critical on the reactive hardener, where deactivation means that adaptation has to start all over again. Increased capacitor consumption. Unless you're also intending to reduce the activation cost, a faster cycle time results in correspondingly higher energy cost on a per second basis. The reactive armor hardener already consumes dramatically more capacitor than standard armor hardeners -- this would only make that worse. For these reasons, I would actively avoid training the skill. The reactive armor hardener can be situationally useful without it, but the drawbacks make it a liability. P.S.: Did you mean to make the reactive armor hardener stacking penalized against damage controls? Neither module makes any mention of stacking penalties, but they most definitely act against each other.
100% agree, Soundwave please make this a activation cost Reduction + Cycle time reduction to maintain cap stability as it is its already very cap sensitive
And yes the stacking penalty is annoying... do to its situational usage i really wish they would make it in a stacking group by itself. i mena if i'm gonna dump that much cpu into a DCU and a Reactive armor let me get the resists lol
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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
375
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 19:32:00 -
[94] - Quote
I don't know if Jade is from the US or not but if he is he should go into politics. The whole "I'm going to hammer a point over and over despite multiple people pointing out I'm wrong" would fit very well into American politics, especially on the right wing. |
Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions Solid Foundation
159
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 19:41:00 -
[95] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Once again though, your argument assumes that this was a knee-jerk response to Goonswarm's plight, an idea which has zero basis in reality whatsoever. Goonswarm never came up once in any of the CCP / CSM talks about the war dec issue, despite all the loonies trying to suggest as much. So these are changes that needed to be made, and the game will be better for it. Up until now the new wardeck mechanics were a little silly. With everyone being able to dogpile into a war there was very little incentive to shop around and actually hire mercenaries. And being able to declare a war mutual and lock someone into a war against multiple alliances probably wasn't the best game mechanic.
But this whole fiasco comes down to a problem of perception. From the outside it looks like these desperately needed changes were not brought into the game because they were desperately needed changes, but rather because the goons whined about it.
In a very short amount of time people saw the goons wardeck some people in highsec. The people highsec asked for help. They got help (a lot of help). And then a nerf was announced to prevent them from getting the same kind of help again. No matter what CCP's intentions were with their patch, that's what people saw.
The same thing happened with the tracking titan nerf. tracking titans needed to be fixed. But they only got fixed because the goons were shouting about it.
If you want to prove once and for all that this game is being changed for the better, and not just for the betterment of one large alliance then you should work on one desperately needed change that the goons wouldn't be in favor of.
I would suggest making a Technetium Fix just as high a priority as the wardeck fix. Don't schedule it for "maybe summer". Don't put it on the back burner while you work on sleeve tattoos. Just like the wardeck fix, and tracking titans, let's see some results. Go into full on "OH ****" mode because it is an issue that is probably just as important (if not more so) an issue as fixing the amount of allies that can join a wardeck. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
239
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 19:42:00 -
[96] - Quote
Kismeteer wrote:TBH, goonswarm doesn't care about empire for the most part. It's a playground to visit, buy stuff in, and cause chaos in general. Anyway, :words: because people are confused about this patch. Here is a break down of our wars. We have approximately 8,901 members in Goonswarm Federation right now, though I'd be surprised if more than 50 were down in empire taking part in these wars. We do have a lot of dumb pilots who ignore war decs though and try to buy something in Jita, dying on the undock! Quote:Goonswarm Fed vs Mabrick Mining and Manufacturing (3 members) 0 Allies 0 kills, 0 losses
Goonswarm Fed vs Paladin Noesis (2 members) 0 Allies 0 kills, 0 losses
Goonswarm Fed vs Paladin Philanthropists (3 members) 0 Allies 0 kills, 0 losses
Goonswarm Fed vs The Honda Accord (154 members) (http://evewho.com/alli/The+Honda+Accord) 38 Allies 40 kills, 341 losses (7 bil killed, 17.8 bil lost)
Goonswarm Fed vs The Star Fraction (70 members (http://evewho.com/alli/The+Star+Fraction) 40 Allies 19 kills, 62 losses (1.4 bil killed, 10.2 bil lost) So, to replicate this circumstance in this new system, Honda and Star Fraction would have to spend approximately 1.4 Quintillion and 5.5 Quintillion respectively (short system). Versus the Inferno War dec system, which cost 0. Now, if you have significant resources to protect, 10 allies is 20 bil, which is somewhat reasonable. But you better choose your mercs wisely! I also assure you that we will have similar losses in the new system as well, we are bad at eve. The current system is obviously broken, this is not the merc system as was requested. It's not like goonswarm is showing up in groups of 400 in empire to kill one small group either. We're showing up in packs of two's and four's to gank haulers and industrials. And we are losing tons of single pilots on jita undock, because we have dumb pilots. In the end, you have to hire competent mercenaries that can protect your assets with small groups with a fleet doctrine and you'll be fine. Hiring the entire universe to defend you is crazy talk. Also, why would people hire mercenaries if they can get some people to randomly show up for free? Give people a reason to hire the best mercenaries rather than just gankers. Hiring a group like the Privateers is great if you want them to sit on Jita undock and pop random goons. But to protect you in the belts and hauling, that takes a real mercenary crew. Also, I made this quick spreadsheet to demonstrate the lunacy of attempting 50 allies. This should go in the wiki but ... :effort: Quote: 1 ally = 0 Million 2 allies = 10 Million 3 allies = 30 Million 4 allies = 70 Million 5 allies = 150 Million 6 allies = 310 Million 7 allies = 630 Million 8 allies = 1 Billion 9 allies = 2 Billion 10 allies = 5 Billion 11 allies = 10 Billion 12 allies = 20 Billion 13 allies = 40 Billion 14 allies = 81 Billion 15 allies = 163 Billion 16 allies = 327 Billion 17 allies = 655 Billion 18 allies = 1 Trillion 19 allies = 2 Trillion 20 allies = 5 Trillion 21 allies = 10 Trillion 22 allies = 20 Trillion 23 allies = 41 Trillion 24 allies = 83 Trillion 25 allies = 167 Trillion 26 allies = 335 Trillion 27 allies = 671 Trillion 28 allies = 1 Quadrillion 29 allies = 2 Quadrillion 30 allies = 5 Quadrillion 31 allies = 10 Quadrillion 32 allies = 21 Quadrillion 33 allies = 42 Quadrillion 34 allies = 85 Quadrillion 35 allies = 171 Quadrillion 36 allies = 343 Quadrillion 37 allies = 687 Quadrillion 38 allies = 1 Quintillion 39 allies = 2 Quintillion 40 allies = 5 Quintillion 41 allies = 10 Quintillion 42 allies = 21 Quintillion 43 allies = 43 Quintillion 44 allies = 87 Quintillion 45 allies = 175 Quintillion 46 allies = 351 Quintillion 47 allies = 703 Quintillion 48 allies = 1 Sextillion 49 allies = 2 Sextillion 50 allies = 5 Sextillion
PS, if CCP were working for us, Super Capitals and Titans would be removed from the game. Nice troll though!
lol or here's a calculation I saw in Evenew24: Jade wants to match goon numbers and put together a 9000 person coalition from other 100 man corps/alliance it will cost 3,094,850,098,213,450,687,247,810,550,000,000 isk every two weeks.
The day that CCP 'fixes' stop sucking is the day they start fixing vaccum cleaners |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
376
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 19:45:00 -
[97] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:lol or here's a calculation I saw in Evenew24: Jade wants to match goon numbers and put together a 9000 person coalition from other 100 man corps/alliance it will cost 3,094,850,098,213,450,687,247,810,550,000,000 isk every two weeks.
If only there were an NPC buy order for pretentious words. Jade would have no problem paying those fees then. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2479
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 19:45:00 -
[98] - Quote
Aleph Phi wrote:As for a ship that'd be troubled by the additional capacitor consumption? How about an Abaddon? They're already quite reliant on their cap boosters to run their lasers. Any additional pressure is just going to make them run through their charges that much faster. It's a factor, whether you admit it or not.
No no, I get it, stuff takes cap. I was just asking to find out whether you'd actually played with this in practice on a specific fit and tested it under such conditions, or were just talking in principle. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
239
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 19:46:00 -
[99] - Quote
Since CCP is turning the ally rules on thier head so completely I'm sure that CCP is giving current mutual War DEC's the option of quitting the war with no costs on the date of the rule change? The day that CCP 'fixes' stop sucking is the day they start fixing vaccum cleaners |
LtCol Laurentius
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 19:52:00 -
[100] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:[the *design objective* of these changes was creating an outlet for mercenary work - NOT making wars perfectly balanced or fair. The changes instituted in Inferno completely undermined this objective, and needed modification.
This must be one of the most boneheaded responses I have ever read.
So basically you are arguing that wars BY DESIGN (not by players striving to get an advantage) should be unfair, favouring the agressor.
Fine. Personelly I think The Caldari and and Amarr militia militia should be capped at 200 members while the obvioulsy sucessful Gallente and Minmatar militia should not be touched. That would make the current FW wars about the same level of unfair BY DESIGN. After all, this is what you are advocating.
Unfairness by DESIGN. |
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Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
160
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 19:57:00 -
[101] - Quote
Wolodymyr wrote:If you want to prove once and for all that this game is being changed for the better, and not just for the betterment of one large alliance then you should work on one desperately needed change that the goons wouldn't be in favor of.
I would suggest making a Technetium Fix just as high a priority as the wardeck fix. Don't schedule it for "maybe summer". Don't put it on the back burner while you work on sleeve tattoos. Just like the wardeck fix, and tracking titans, let's see some results. Go into full on "OH ****" mode because it is an issue that is probably just as important (if not more so) an issue as fixing the amount of allies that can join a wardeck.
You really need to read the CSM notes from previous sessions. Goons have been at the forefront of shouting for a technetium fix for a very long time, we just have not gotten it yet. Then we started using all of our tech because CCP is not fixing it.
More details: http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/230860/page/2
E: oh yeah, and the CSM notes in question: http://www.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2011/CSM_CCP_Mettings_7-9_12_2011.pdf |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
561
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 20:04:00 -
[102] - Quote
LtCol Laurentius wrote:\ Also, congratz on not considering any other design criteria than to pamper for Alek and Noir. I am sure thats the ONLY thing that shoud matter when discussing wardecs.. Im strongly opposed to the change to the ally system and CCP has ignored me.
So try again, it's not my fault nor has anything to do with a damn thing I've said. Arydanika:-á"Alekseyev Karrde mercenary of my heart."-á
CSM7 rep, CSM 4 vet www.noirmercs.com Noir. Academy now recruiting |
Atum
Eclipse Industrials STR8NGE BREW
57
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 20:13:00 -
[103] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:As mentioned in the test server thread, the reason this is being dealt with isn't so much to block jade's attempt to let us shoot everyone in highsec, but to allow actual mercs to market their services. Since that's a major feature of this expansion, mercs being unable to charge a fee is the sort of broken mechanic that needs a quick CCP response. I'm not an empire dweller (spent the last few months in a WH, now I'm in null), so this stuff doesn't affect me all that much. I just don't see how the merc market is really screwed up by this... There was no merc market before Inferno, so why is changing something that's not even a month old completely screw the pooch? Everyone loves to hate the Goons, and I think most folks (besides TEST and the rest of the CFC) would probably love to shoot Goons just on the principle of the thing. That they can do so without the corresponding security hit would just be an added bonus.
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Once again though, your argument assumes that this was a knee-jerk response to Goonswarm's plight, an idea which has zero basis in reality whatsoever. Goonswarm never came up once in any of the CCP / CSM talks about the war dec issue, despite all the loonies trying to suggest as much.
The harm has been stated quite clearly multiple times now - the *design objective* of these changes was creating an outlet for mercenary work - NOT making wars perfectly balanced or fair. The changes instituted in Inferno completely undermined this objective, and needed modification. Once again??? Uhhh... that was the first post I made in this thread. I'm not arguing right or wrong on making this change, and the "design objective," as you say, is one that I agree with. What I don't like is that rather than sitting back and watching a little longer, CCP is moving forward with a major change that breaks the emergent response to an interesting conundrum, and which, intentionally or not, is directly favorable to a faction generally regarded as a royal PITA. *I* never said anything about the Goons coming up during talks (others, though, have), and had this happened five years ago and worked in favor of BOB, I'm sure we'd be having this same discussion.
As I mentioned above, considering that the merc market is completely new with Inferno, waiting a little while to watch the evolution would not be a game-breaker. Let's say this were Star Fraction versus Stain Wagon... would either side be worried about the other going mutual and bringing the rest of the cluster in on the fun? I rather doubt it. I agree that this is a broken mechanic, but I'd much rather give it some time before going in and changing things, since this is also a brand new mechanic. |
LtCol Laurentius
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 20:13:00 -
[104] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:LtCol Laurentius wrote:\ Also, congratz on not considering any other design criteria than to pamper for Alek and Noir. I am sure thats the ONLY thing that shoud matter when discussing wardecs.. Im strongly opposed to the change to the ally system and CCP has ignored me. So try again, it's not my fault nor has anything to do with a damn thing I've said.
Soundwave goes out of his way to acertain that the ONLY thing that he wanted to make sure of is that mercs was a viable proffesion. The rest of the dec mechanic seems to be totally uniteresting to him, even if this was the FLAGSHIP of the Inferno expansion. If that is not pampering to your playstyle, I dont know what is.
You might not agree with the implemenation, and this is confirmed by Soundwave as well:
CCP Soundwave wrote: 2. We're doing this change based on CSM and merc feedback, which was to restrict the option to get as many free allies as the defender wanted so mercs could profile their services more visibly. What we disagree with is the practical solution to this issue; they wanted one tailored to mercs and the option I chose was one that was more balanced. This means that corps and alliances have the option to go with a smaller group of elite people or simply throw a ton of cash at getting a lot of allies in. At the end of the day, this is the more flexible option, which is much healthier for EVE as a whole.
So basically, he says that the ENTIRE CSM wanted an even more merc-tailored solution than the one we have got. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2164
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 20:14:00 -
[105] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:LtCol Laurentius wrote:\ Also, congratz on not considering any other design criteria than to pamper for Alek and Noir. I am sure thats the ONLY thing that shoud matter when discussing wardecs.. Im strongly opposed to the change to the ally system and CCP has ignored me. So try again, it's not my fault nor has anything to do with a damn thing I've said.
I kinda repeated that a fair bit earlier Alekseyev but seemed nobody was listening :)
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom Epic Inferno Wardec Test, Sign up and shoot Goons for free! |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3349
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 20:18:00 -
[106] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote: I kinda repeated that a fair bit earlier Alekseyev but seemed nobody was listening :)
well no you claimed "the entire csm" was against the change and naturally were ignored when you were repeatedly contradicted by csm member after csm member |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3349
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 20:21:00 -
[107] - Quote
I kept claiming the sun orbited around the earth, and people kept ignoring me! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2165
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 20:22:00 -
[108] - Quote
corestwo wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:lol or here's a calculation I saw in Evenew24: Jade wants to match goon numbers and put together a 9000 person coalition from other 100 man corps/alliance it will cost 3,094,850,098,213,450,687,247,810,550,000,000 isk every two weeks.
If only there were an NPC buy order for pretentious words. Jade would have no problem paying those fees then.
See this is the irony about the whole goonie thing. Whenever some poor miner pipes up on GD and goes "oh noes goons ganked my hulk lets all form up a giant alliance and go bash them!" the goons will generlaly say "come at me bro" and encourage the attack with bluster and bravado.
Problem is that the first time we ever got close to actually putting together a hisec coalition to do just that and you guys are backpeddling faster than a trick unicyclist from an escaped tiger.
End of the day you guys want the right to do "grief decs" on your terms without effective counter. And you have now got a sequence of game changes to your clear benefit.
1. Loopholes gone - check. 2. 10x the cost to counter dec - check. 3. Mutual lock-in removed - check. 4. Defensive allies priced out of stratosphere - check.
And we are going to be stuck with this system for quite some time.
So while sure, you guys are going to be eating high the hog for a while - just don't expect the rest of Eve Online to keep eating your line of blather about welcoming wardecs. You don't. You are wardec evaders end of the day - on the grandest scale Eve Online has ever witnessed.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom Epic Inferno Wardec Test, Sign up and shoot Goons for free! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2165
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 20:23:00 -
[109] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Jade Constantine wrote: I kinda repeated that a fair bit earlier Alekseyev but seemed nobody was listening :)
well no you claimed "the entire csm" was against the change and naturally were ignored when you were repeatedly contradicted by csm member after csm member
Stop telling fibs and get on the spin control over at Eve news 24 weaselor. Only one CSM member tried to contradict me and he wasn't ever at the meeting referenced.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom Epic Inferno Wardec Test, Sign up and shoot Goons for free! |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2479
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 20:25:00 -
[110] - Quote
Wolodymyr wrote:If you want to prove once and for all that this game is being changed for the better, and not just for the betterment of one large alliance then you should work on one desperately needed change that the goons wouldn't be in favor of.
I would suggest making a Technetium Fix just as high a priority as the wardeck fix. Don't schedule it for "maybe summer". Don't put it on the back burner while you work on sleeve tattoos. Just like the wardeck fix, and tracking titans, let's see some results. Go into full on "OH ****" mode because it is an issue that is probably just as important (if not more so) an issue as fixing the amount of allies that can join a wardeck.
Honestly, I think constantly catering to public misconception and wasting extra time and resources trying to combat conspiracy theorists is more detrimental to the overall process than just asking players to screw their heads on straight and not leap to conclusions all the time.
The bottom line is that Goons are *NOT* the driving force behind every major decision in EVE, despite their numbers and despite all the erroneous hype. Going out of our way to select a feature change that GÇ£hurts GoonsGÇ¥ is giving them exactly what theyGÇÖre after: attention. If you donGÇÖt understand Goon motivations for why they do what they do, I donGÇÖt know where to start. They would be *thrilled* to know the game was changed on their behalf, whether its in support of or in spite of their efforts.
Besides, The Mittani has been one of the most outspoken supporters of a Technetium nerf, so thatGÇÖs not even a place you can go to hit them GÇ£below the beltGÇ¥. Again, its important that you understand Goon motivation for the tactics they employ, often using silly mechanics to their extreme end in order to make a statement about the game design in the first place. However, there is a critical difference between using behavior as an *example* to the developers, and using oneGÇÖs insider influence to actually *control* the developers as so many have fearfully suggested.
Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2480
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 20:29:00 -
[111] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote: Stop telling fibs and get on the spin control over at Eve news 24 weaselor. Only one CSM member tried to contradict me and he wasn't ever at the meeting referenced.
And you can stop telling fibs as well Jade. Kelduum was most certainly present at the CSM summit in Iceland.
Also, saying that only one CSM member tried to contradict you is completely misleading. We certainly agree that the fees model was not ideal, but most of has have repeatedly rebuked your insistence that all of this was done to cater to Goon influence. There is no reason to suggest any kind of implied solidarity with your cause. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3350
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 20:29:00 -
[112] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote: Stop telling fibs and get on the spin control over at Eve news 24 weaselor. Only one CSM member tried to contradict me and he wasn't ever at the meeting referenced.
why on earth would i care about en24
tons of people with csm tags posted in that thread and the only one not explicitly mocking you was hans, and you could tell how much it took out of him to not mock you |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
3718
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 20:33:00 -
[113] - Quote
Yay Protective Armor Hardeners.... :P
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Kody Grey
Banana Pants Incorporated
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 20:36:00 -
[114] - Quote
Why does CCP feel it has to create a merc industry in a sand box game? If a defender in a war wants to ally with free help and that free help wants to help for free, why not let them. If they suck then hey you get what you pay for.
So if you want "awesome" protection, hire real merc's with a proven track record but at a cost. Seems simple. The group of players in this sandbox game that would want to white knight for free should be allowed to do so.
So if you happen to get the situation where a giant alliance war decs a target and more people want to side with the defenders for free, well life sucks sometimes, this is a player driven sandbox game. Instead we have the developers stepping in, stopping the player driven content for I don't really know what exactly. |
Selissa Shadoe
94
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 20:39:00 -
[115] - Quote
Dabigredboat wrote:
I hear that repeatedly attacking a developer of the game is now bannable. I would be careful how many times you attack soundwave, who has done nothing but promote great changes and fixes to this game ever since he has joined ccp games.
Attacking the POINT OF VIEW of a CCP member is NOT the same as attacking them personally. Learn to read. People are free to disagree with others' viewpoints. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2167
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Posted - 2012.06.13 20:46:00 -
[116] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Jade Constantine wrote: Stop telling fibs and get on the spin control over at Eve news 24 weaselor. Only one CSM member tried to contradict me and he wasn't ever at the meeting referenced.
And you can stop telling fibs as well Jade. Kelduum was most certainly present at the CSM summit in Iceland.
In which case either Kelduum or Alekseyev Karrde is lying. Because Alekseyez says that the proposal was universally rejected by the CSM representatives present. Either Kelduum was present and supported the change (in which case Alekseyez is telling fibs) OR Kelduum wasn't present and you are telling fibs.
Stop trying to attack players because you CSM reps cannot seem to get your story straight on this fiasco.
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Also, saying that only one CSM member tried to contradict you is completely misleading. We certainly agree that the fees model was not ideal, but most of has have repeatedly rebuked your insistence that all of this was done to cater to Goon influence. There is no reason to suggest any kind of implied solidarity with your cause.
You are in no position to "rebuke" anybody so I advise you to quit the stuffed shirt strutting chickenlord act and float back gently to earth with the rest of us mere mortals. We have been told this change was universally downvoted by the CSM present at the meeting by a member of the CSM. If you think there is something wrong with that statement then take it up with Alekseyev and stop lashing out at players trying to make sense of this nonsense.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom Epic Inferno Wardec Test, Sign up and shoot Goons for free! |
Marlona Sky
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
1138
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Posted - 2012.06.13 20:51:00 -
[117] - Quote
Lack of communication strikes again it seems.
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1760
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Posted - 2012.06.13 20:55:00 -
[118] - Quote
Chribba wrote:Yay Protective Armor Hardeners.... :P
I know, right? CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics K162
2006
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Posted - 2012.06.13 21:01:00 -
[119] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote: Stop telling fibs and get on the spin control over at Eve news 24 weaselor. Only one CSM member tried to contradict me and he wasn't ever at the meeting referenced.
I haven't been reading what you have been posting because, frankly, it is boring and terrible. Please consider me to be contradicting everything you are saying everywhere. CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
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Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
97
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Posted - 2012.06.13 21:01:00 -
[120] - Quote
Basically what I get out of this thread is that there is a whiney babby whining that he isn't able to get free help anymore. Self-appointed forums hallway monitor |
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