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The Apostle
The Black Priests
526
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Posted - 2011.10.19 21:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
I awoke this morning (Australia) to read the recent news about CCP job layoffs.
There are some good posts supportive of CCP and there are also some extremely insensitive dicks emerging from the woodwork.
And for mine, the dicks need to be belted for being the short range, self-centred aholes they are.
For all CCP's weaknesses they are also one of the great visionaries in the world of gaming. Visionaries always do it tougher than the follow the leader type businesses. They attract greater risk in every venture by being so.
Just like Eve. It was risky, it was visionary. It worked. Some latter stuff hasn't had time to emerge yet to be able to gauge the good/bad yet. Put simply, half of the huff and puff going on in Eve about CCP is just mindless drivel from no more than spoiled brats who have nfi and it's about time you stfu or gtfo.
In all of this, we're forgetting that the very people that made the decisions that made Eve are also the very people that had to pass on the bad news to several employees and subsequently their families. You know REAL people, with REAL lives...
The reality in all of this, despite some of the uninformed commentary to the contrary, you simply cannot sack managment to save a company. You can restructure, you can dump some middle staff but you cannot start at the top. Period.
Regardless, as an ex employer who has had to lay staff off, it is the hardest, most gut wrenching job you will ever possibly have to do. There will be some very, very sad senior management in CCP over the coming weeks and if you REALLY knew these things you wouldn't be so bloody thoughtless and insensitive.
Show some fn respect - to both the dismissed staff and to the people who have had to make the toughest call there is. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
596
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Posted - 2011.10.19 21:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
People will always find something to whine about...
edit/not talking about OP.
/c
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RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
49
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:I awoke this morning (Australia) to read the recent news about CCP job layoffs.
There are some good posts supportive of CCP and there are also some extremely insensitive dicks emerging from the woodwork.
And for mine, the dicks need to be belted for being the short range, self-centred aholes they are.
For all CCP's weaknesses they are also one of the great visionaries in the world of gaming. Visionaries always do it tougher than the follow the leader type businesses. They attract greater risk in every venture by being so.
Just like Eve. It was risky, it was visionary. It worked. Some latter stuff hasn't had time to emerge yet to be able to gauge the good/bad yet. Put simply, half of the huff and puff going on in Eve about CCP is just mindless drivel from no more than spoiled brats who have nfi and it's about time you stfu or gtfo.
In all of this, we're forgetting that the very people that made the decisions that made Eve are also the very people that had to pass on the bad news to several employees and subsequently their families. You know REAL people, with REAL lives...
The reality in all of this, despite some of the uninformed commentary to the contrary, you simply cannot sack managment to save a company. You can restructure, you can dump some middle staff but you cannot start at the top. Period.
Regardless, as an ex employer who has had to lay staff off, it is the hardest, most gut wrenching job you will ever possibly have to do. There will be some very, very sad senior management in CCP over the coming weeks and if you REALLY knew these things you wouldn't be so bloody thoughtless and insensitive.
Show some fn respect - to both the dismissed staff and to the people who have had to make the toughest call there is.
Ill take under consideration what you say as soon as you can answer for me why Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson. Still has a job?
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baltec1
121
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Posted - 2011.10.19 21:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
The Apostle posts some terrible threads. This is not one of them.
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mkint
155
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Posted - 2011.10.19 21:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hilmar has spent the past 2+ years in a delusional state, and you expect us to feel sorry for -him-?
Yes, I feel absolutely awful for all those people. It's not a small number of people who have some awful challenges ahead of them. I've avoided commenting on this topic up to now, but to defend Hilmar?
btw: "visionary" is a garbage word. I've known some mentally ill homeless people with some great vision. A couple drops of acid or some magic mushrooms will confer some great vision. Hilmar wasn't the only founder of CCP, he's just the only one that's a big enough slimeball to be the salesman of EVE. Hilmar has over-sold, and good people, people not-hilmar, are paying the price. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
526
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:Ill take under consideration what you say as soon as you can answer for me why Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson. Still has a job? All CEO's are given a chance at resurrection. If he doesn't sort out CCP after having that chance then on his head be it.
But while some call for him to fall on his sword, it was people like the CEO AND most of his senior staff that STARTED Eve. It's their baby, their vision...
Regardless, now is NOT the time to be proclaiming you are the fixer-of-all-things-bad...
For seniors to have to 1) admit errors for being visionary and 2) yield the axe for that vision is so, so tough.
If you knew how hard it is, you'd be silent. Very silent.
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
49
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:RougeOperator wrote:Ill take under consideration what you say as soon as you can answer for me why Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson. Still has a job? All CEO's are given a chance at resurrection. If he doesn't sort out CCP after having that chance then on his head be it. But while some call for him to fall on his sword, it was people like the CEO AND most of his senior staff that STARTED Eve. It's their baby, their vision... Regardless, now is NOT the time to be proclaiming you are the fixer-of-all-things-bad... For seniors to have to 1) admit errors for being visionary and 2) yield the axe for that vision is so, so tough. If you knew how hard it is, you'd be silent. Very silent.
This post strikes me as a delusional person.
Hilmar are you.....The Apostle? |
stoicfaux
302
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
People are being respectful. I think most folks have realized that 20% layoffs means 99% less forum moderation, yet no one has a created a "Mods are asleep, post ponies!" thread...
Tinfoil. It should be at the top of everyone's food pyramid.
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baltec1
121
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Posted - 2011.10.19 21:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:People are being respectful. I think most folks have realized that 20% layoffs means 99% less forum moderation, yet no one has a created a "Mods are asleep, post ponies!" thread...
We did but it didnt take off. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
526
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
mkint wrote:Hilmar has spent the past 2+ years in a delusional state, and you expect us to feel sorry for -him-?
Yes, I feel absolutely awful for all those people. It's not a small number of people who have some awful challenges ahead of them. I've avoided commenting on this topic up to now, but to defend Hilmar?
btw: "visionary" is a garbage word. I've known some mentally ill homeless people with some great vision. A couple drops of acid or some magic mushrooms will confer some great vision. Hilmar wasn't the only founder of CCP, he's just the only one that's a big enough slimeball to be the salesman of EVE. Hilmar has over-sold, and good people, people not-hilmar, are paying the price. You put your credentials on the table and I'll listen further to your repeated snipes.
tbh, you may even be right, I don't know, I am not a senior executive with years of experience to draw such conclusions from.
Regardless, THIS is NOT the time... Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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Jigoku Tomi
Time Sync
7
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Posted - 2011.10.19 21:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Still thinking about my response to last night's events.
It might be a WoT I'm afraid.
So TA you city based or in some shack someplace? |
Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor The Seventh Day
77
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:
If you knew how hard it is, you'd be silent. Very silent.
Actually, some people don't seem to understand that others are born assholes. So this statement is not necessarily true. |
Janos Saal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
35
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
The Apostle wrote: Show some fn respect - [...] to the people who have had to make the toughest call there is.
how 'bout no EVE is dead |
Kengutsi Akira
58
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
not even trollin, this is eve respect an eve dont exactly go hand in hand What Mittani wants, Mittani gets, Mittani help us all
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Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
179
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Posted - 2011.10.19 21:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
So CCP fired 20% of its workforce and then hired The Apostle as the Forums Morals Police? |
Janos Saal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
35
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:The Apostle posts some terrible threads. This is not one of them.
yes it is EVE is dead |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
684
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:People are being respectful. I think most folks have realized that 20 [percent] layoffs means 99 [percent] less forum moderation, yet no one has a created a "Mods are asleep, post ponies!" thread... Oh reallyGǪ?
Oh FFS! FORUMS!! GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
299
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ill take under consideration what you say as soon as you can answer for me why Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson. Still has a job? [/quote] I can answer if you don't understand by yourself.
- He made mistakes - He admitted that he made mistakes - He is honestly sorry about the mistakes and learned plenty from them - He committed to return EvE back to track and increase communication to prevent similiar stuff happening in future - He is making necessary adjustments to recover from the mistakes and setting sail to new course
Today's actions are part of the difficult recovery process.
Even good CEO may make mistakes as long he has enough balls take the responsibility if crap hits the fan. Hilmar is doing just this. Laying your own employees off is most difficult task you can give yourself. It isn't easy and you don't take it lightly. You do it only if it is inevitable to prevent even worse events.
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Reverand Pastor
Dynasty Ink.
5
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Posted - 2011.10.19 21:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
What a terrible thread. If there were people like you we would all still think the world is flat and the earth is the center of the universe. This was a tragic error and for years we delt the brunt of it and now people who should not be held accountable are being thrown under the bus. I and others are pissed off and if you dont like that fact maybe this "sandox" game isnt right for you. On the respect note i havent read anything that has been the least bit disrespectful. Angry yes. Welcome to a FORUM |
Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
35
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Posted - 2011.10.19 21:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
I can assure you that I never said that management needs to be fired. There are always more creative solutions if you catch my drift.
Slade
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RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
49
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Posted - 2011.10.19 21:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:RougeOperator wrote: Ill take under consideration what you say as soon as you can answer for me why Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson. Still has a job?
I can answer if you don't understand by yourself. - He made mistakes - He admitted that he made mistakes - He is honestly sorry about the mistakes and learned plenty from them - He committed to return EvE back to track and increase communication to prevent similiar stuff happening in future - He is making necessary adjustments to recover from the mistakes and setting sail to new course Today's actions are part of the difficult recovery process. Even good CEO may make mistakes as long he has enough balls take the responsibility if crap hits the fan. Hilmar is doing just this. Laying your own employees off is most difficult task you can give yourself. It isn't easy and you don't take it lightly. You do it only if it is inevitable to prevent even worse events.
You really think that he learned anything when it took him MONTHS to admit anything? The doubles down on stupid shortly after? |
Xymethian
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
Gas thread, ban OP. |
Janos Saal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
35
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote: Even good CEO may make mistakes
yeah thats great but were talking about hilmar EVE is dead |
Mallak Azaria
Hole Plunderer's
8
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:I awoke this morning (Australia) to read the recent news about CCP job layoffs.
There are some good posts supportive of CCP and there are also some extremely insensitive dicks emerging from the woodwork.
And for mine, the dicks need to be belted for being the short range, self-centred aholes they are.
For all CCP's weaknesses they are also one of the great visionaries in the world of gaming. Visionaries always do it tougher than the follow the leader type businesses. They attract greater risk in every venture by being so.
Just like Eve. It was risky, it was visionary. It worked. Some latter stuff hasn't had time to emerge yet to be able to gauge the good/bad yet. Put simply, half of the huff and puff going on in Eve about CCP is just mindless drivel from no more than spoiled brats who have nfi and it's about time you stfu or gtfo.
In all of this, we're forgetting that the very people that made the decisions that made Eve are also the very people that had to pass on the bad news to several employees and subsequently their families. You know REAL people, with REAL lives...
The reality in all of this, despite some of the uninformed commentary to the contrary, you simply cannot sack managment to save a company. You can restructure, you can dump some middle staff but you cannot start at the top. Period.
Regardless, as an ex employer who has had to lay staff off, it is the hardest, most gut wrenching job you will ever possibly have to do. There will be some very, very sad senior management in CCP over the coming weeks and if you REALLY knew these things you wouldn't be so bloody thoughtless and insensitive.
Show some fn respect - to both the dismissed staff and to the people who have had to make the toughest call there is.
Why do people like you insist on making all Aussies look bad?
Also, confirming OP is mad.
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The Apostle
The Black Priests
529
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
Kengutsi Akira wrote:not even trollin, this is eve respect an eve dont exactly go hand in hand It's extraordinary to think that actions IN a game has ramifications OUT of game....
If that's not true, tell that to the staff searching Positions Vacant.
So either
1) "The Protests" in Eve have caused this therefore we are much more powerful in REAL life than we know and we're using a game interface to do so!
2) This has nothing to do with "The Protests" (it's only a game) which means all commentary about RL people are void.
If 1, then some OUT of game respect, dignity and empathy for RL people must apply and we need to use the game interface to do it.
If 2, then be harsh by all means but then you can't use RL people or practices to justify the commentary.
We must either except they are mutually exclusive or they are not. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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Grog Barrel
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
I really hope for the Apostle being a WiDot poaster (edit: in disguise). |
Smoking Blunts
Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD.
118
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
is this the same respect that hilmar has shown the player base over the last 2 years?
i dont wanna get the respect wrong and upset the op even more CCP-áare full of words and no action. We watch what they do and its nothing but false statements and lies.
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Martinez
T-Cells Moar Tears
3
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Posted - 2011.10.19 21:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
Most the the replies have been very respectful. I would say more than 80%. As for where the angry is directed it should be at the Hilmar. He ran the ship aground and is using the bottom 20% to stand on while people try and fix the boat. I love Eve I hope it works.
As for the Meat Floats, sorry about your jobs guys. I myself have been in the spot and it sucks. GL finding a new job and looking at some of the jobs being posted on the the forums I am sure you all can get back on your feet. |
Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
181
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:46:00 -
[29] - Quote
Grog Barrel wrote:I really hope for the Apostle being a WiDot poaster (edit: in disguise). We used to think he was a Riverini alt but not even Riverini would make a thread this horrible.
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Astrid Stjerna
Teraa Matar
25
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:46:00 -
[30] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote: Ill take under consideration what you say as soon as you can answer for me why Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson. Still has a job?
Because when you axe the top management, your investors get very nervous. They put signifigant amounts of capital at risk to fund the company, and a fired CEO screams 'internal conflict' and 'hostile takeover' -- which any investor worth his salt will look at very carefully when it next comes time to pay the bills. |
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Haulin Aussie
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
Xymethian wrote:Gas thread, ban OP.
Makes me sad to be an Australian when I see bears like OP riding CCP and their :awesome"
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The Apostle
The Black Priests
529
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:48:00 -
[32] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:The Apostle wrote:I awoke this morning (Australia) to read the recent news about CCP job layoffs. ....... Why do people like you insist on making all Aussies look bad? Also, confirming OP is mad. That's the most un Australian thing I've heard for a long time. Check your postcode. Does it have 4 digits?
Confirming OP is angry and mad. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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The Apostle
The Black Priests
532
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 21:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
Jigoku Tomi wrote:Still thinking about my response to last night's events.
It might be a WoT I'm afraid.
So TA you city based or in some shack someplace? Option 3) I live in a shack in a city.
jk
Recently ex city - returned to "bush" for tree change. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
299
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:01:00 -
[34] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:RougeOperator wrote: Ill take under consideration what you say as soon as you can answer for me why Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson. Still has a job?
I can answer if you don't understand by yourself. - He made mistakes - He admitted that he made mistakes - He is honestly sorry about the mistakes and learned plenty from them - He committed to return EvE back to track and increase communication to prevent similiar stuff happening in future - He is making necessary adjustments to recover from the mistakes and setting sail to new course Today's actions are part of the difficult recovery process. Even good CEO may make mistakes as long he has enough balls take the responsibility if crap hits the fan. Hilmar is doing just this. Laying your own employees off is most difficult task you can give yourself. It isn't easy and you don't take it lightly. You do it only if it is inevitable to prevent even worse events. You really think that he learned anything when it took him MONTHS to admit anything? The doubles down on stupid shortly after? Well would you be happier if we had someone who would not admit his mistakes at all before entire corporation is dead. World is full of that kind of leaders.
I surely am not happy that CCP is in this point today and it is most certainly Hilmar's fault, but at least he goes clean with it. I was yelling loud about replacing Hilmar during the protests, but after his latest blog I finally started to have some faith to the guy again. He certainly has earned the right to "try again". I wouldn't trade him to some "fresh blood" just to watch rerun of same mistakes what have been made in past few years.
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Jaiimez Skor
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
6
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:02:00 -
[35] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:RougeOperator wrote: Ill take under consideration what you say as soon as you can answer for me why Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson. Still has a job?
I can answer if you don't understand by yourself. - He made mistakes - He admitted that he made mistakes - He is honestly sorry about the mistakes and learned plenty from them - He committed to return EvE back to track and increase communication to prevent similiar stuff happening in future - He is making necessary adjustments to recover from the mistakes and setting sail to new course Today's actions are part of the difficult recovery process. Even good CEO may make mistakes as long he has enough balls take the responsibility if crap hits the fan. Hilmar is doing just this. Laying your own employees off is most difficult task you can give yourself. It isn't easy and you don't take it lightly. You do it only if it is inevitable to prevent even worse events. Every worker you fire you fire because of your own mistakes. That really makes you think what being humble means.
I believe also the nature of how CCP is ran it is not a publically owned company, that means there is no board of directors, it means Hilmar is the boss, there is nobody who can fire him, he is the head of the company, there is no board of directors to vote him outta the job, the only way he can lose it is if #1 he quits due to pressure from the community or staffing, or #2 his company goes to hell because everybody leaves in protest or it isn't making money.
I also do not believe Hilmar deserves to be sacked, he has screwed up he knows that, I do not believe that CCP are only after fattening their wallets unlike what alot of people say I do believe they are trying to make more money, but they're a business that's what businesses do, but I also believe the extra money will be reinvested into EvE as well as their other projects.
Although on a different note, i'm slightly confused, how is realising you're stretched too thin and trying to do too much with not enough people mean you have to reduce staff numbers, surely if you don't have enough people, the best thing is to employ more, the only reason you'd lay people off if there are finanacial concerns and you cannot afford to employ more staff to make up for the extra hours needed to not be stretched thing, or you are concerned that the company has become too large too fast, and it is part of the reason for the lack of communication and other issues and wish to downsize and get the company back to how it previously was.
Knowing CCP I wouldn't be suprised if it is in an attempt to fix their communication issues and get back to being that close friendly developers that we all love, rather than becoming so large they have to become too corporate and cold to the community to avoid any issues with communication. |
Smoking Blunts
Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD.
118
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:05:00 -
[36] - Quote
Jaiimez Skor wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:RougeOperator wrote: Ill take under consideration what you say as soon as you can answer for me why Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson. Still has a job?
I can answer if you don't understand by yourself. - He made mistakes - He admitted that he made mistakes - He is honestly sorry about the mistakes and learned plenty from them - He committed to return EvE back to track and increase communication to prevent similiar stuff happening in future - He is making necessary adjustments to recover from the mistakes and setting sail to new course Today's actions are part of the difficult recovery process. Even good CEO may make mistakes as long he has enough balls take the responsibility if crap hits the fan. Hilmar is doing just this. Laying your own employees off is most difficult task you can give yourself. It isn't easy and you don't take it lightly. You do it only if it is inevitable to prevent even worse events. Every worker you fire you fire because of your own mistakes. That really makes you think what being humble means. I believe also the nature of how CCP is ran it is not a publically owned company, that means there is no board of directors, it means Hilmar is the boss, there is nobody who can fire him, he is the head of the company, there is no board of directors to vote him outta the job, the only way he can lose it is if #1 he quits due to pressure from the community or staffing, or #2 his company goes to hell because everybody leaves in protest or it isn't making money. I also do not believe Hilmar deserves to be sacked, he has screwed up he knows that, I do not believe that CCP are only after fattening their wallets unlike what alot of people say I do believe they are trying to make more money, but they're a business that's what businesses do, but I also believe the extra money will be reinvested into EvE as well as their other projects. Although on a different note, i'm slightly confused, how is realising you're stretched too thin and trying to do too much with not enough people mean you have to reduce staff numbers, surely if you don't have enough people, the best thing is to employ more, the only reason you'd lay people off if there are finanacial concerns and you cannot afford to employ more staff to make up for the extra hours needed to not be stretched thing, or you are concerned that the company has become too large too fast, and it is part of the reason for the lack of communication and other issues and wish to downsize and get the company back to how it previously was. Knowing CCP I wouldn't be suprised if it is in an attempt to fix their communication issues and get back to being that close friendly developers that we all love, rather than becoming so large they have to become too corporate and cold to the community to avoid any issues with communication.
hilmar is that you?
he is running eve and ccp into the ground. you can not fix your communitaction with the community by sacking the community reps. thats like running a pub and not buying beer CCP-áare full of words and no action. We watch what they do and its nothing but false statements and lies.
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RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
49
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:07:00 -
[37] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:
hilmar is that you?
he is running eve and ccp into the ground. you can not fix your communitaction with the community by sacking the community reps. thats like running a pub and not buying beer
More like showing the customer the beer then smashing it on the ground in front of them. Then tell them to lick it up while dodging shards of glass. |
Barakkus
852
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:09:00 -
[38] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote: he is running eve and ccp into the ground. you can not fix your communitaction with the community by sacking the community reps. thats like running a pub and not buying beer
While I don't like the list of who they laid off, some of them were my fav CCP personalities, I would like to know how you would get anything actually coded and produced with just community reps...
The PR people are always the first to go in these situations, unfortunately those positions are expendable. It REALLY sucks, but you're not going to get any 3D modeling or coding out of a PR person, no matter how much you try, unless they are actually developers as well...I'm pretty sure most of the people on the list so far are not actual grunt developers.
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Reverand Pastor
Dynasty Ink.
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:12:00 -
[39] - Quote
The people laid off is a big concern. Community Devs and Mods have been axed. The people who are the link between ccp and player base. This is while touting new interaction between us and the company. so strange. |
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
50
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:12:00 -
[40] - Quote
Barakkus wrote:Smoking Blunts wrote: he is running eve and ccp into the ground. you can not fix your communitaction with the community by sacking the community reps. thats like running a pub and not buying beer
While I don't like the list of who they laid off, some of them were my fav CCP personalities, I would like to know how you would get anything actually coded and produced with just community reps... The PR people are always the first to go in these situations, unfortunately those positions are expendable. It REALLY sucks, but you're not going to get any 3D modeling or coding out of a PR person, no matter how much you try, unless they are actually developers as well...I'm pretty sure most of the people on the list so far are not actual grunt developers.
Have EPIC amounts of terrible PR.
KILL YOUR PR TEAM
MAKES PERFECT SENSE. |
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Dessau
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:And for mine, the dicks need to be belted...
Interesting username. A true believer, a loyal follower. The perfect sort of sheep to pad Hilmar's wallet for the outstanding state or affairs in this game.
No thanks. I'll save my respect for when someone earns it.
|
Generals4
183
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:17:00 -
[42] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:
You really think that he learned anything when it took him MONTHS to admit anything? The doubles down on stupid shortly after?
To his defence at least he admitted he made a mistake and actually corrected it. Many CEO's nowadays admit they made a mistake but continue following said path. -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
Paragon Renegade
The Multinational Company.
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:21:00 -
[43] - Quote
This, by far, is the worst community of people I've ever seen in any game.
Being fine with people being laid off for spurious reasons? Reality check |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
299
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:24:00 -
[44] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote: Have EPIC amounts of terrible PR. KILL YOUR PR TEAM MAKES PERFECT SENSE.
Do you know the reasoning behind PR employee lay-offs? I certainly don't.
It might as well be because new goal is to offer more direct discussion between the community and developers making certain PR roles obsolete. However it pointless to speculate or judge without any of the basic information needed to the task.
|
Mallak Azaria
Hole Plunderer's
8
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:24:00 -
[45] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:The Apostle wrote:I awoke this morning (Australia) to read the recent news about CCP job layoffs. ....... Why do people like you insist on making all Aussies look bad? Also, confirming OP is mad. That's the most un Australian thing I've heard for a long time. Check your postcode. Does it have 4 digits? Confirming OP is angry and mad.
You don't get out much, do you?
|
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:26:00 -
[46] - Quote
Are we talking about he guy who, more or less, said: 'Ignore what our customers are saying'. |
Martinez
T-Cells Moar Tears
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:27:00 -
[47] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:This, by far, is the worst community of people I've ever seen in any game.
Being fine with people being laid off for spurious reasons? Reality check
Not sure where you are reading bad stuff enough to say its the "worst community". As I said earlier most posts have been very nice.
Although, had a community leader died in RL or anyone else for that matter, all hell would have broken loose. |
Grog Barrel
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:29:00 -
[48] - Quote
Alexandra Delarge wrote:Are we talking about he guy who, more or less, said: 'Ignore what our customers are saying'.
In some cases, autism can be cured...they said. |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
300
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
Paragon Renegade wrote:This, by far, is the worst community of people I've ever seen in any game.
Being fine with people being laid off for spurious reasons? Reality check I don't think anyone is "fine" about lay-offs in here.
|
Smoking Blunts
Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD.
118
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:35:00 -
[50] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:Paragon Renegade wrote:This, by far, is the worst community of people I've ever seen in any game.
Being fine with people being laid off for spurious reasons? Reality check I don't think anyone is "fine" about lay-offs in here.
true, i think most just want hilmar to be the one fired. to the ones that did loose there jobs, for what its worth, GL with what ever comes next CCP-áare full of words and no action. We watch what they do and its nothing but false statements and lies.
|
|
The Apostle
The Black Priests
537
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:38:00 -
[51] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:The Apostle wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:The Apostle wrote:I awoke this morning (Australia) to read the recent news about CCP job layoffs. ....... Why do people like you insist on making all Aussies look bad? Also, confirming OP is mad. That's the most un Australian thing I've heard for a long time. Check your postcode. Does it have 4 digits? Confirming OP is angry and mad. You don't get out much, do you? Here's a funny thing Aussie - and this is coming from a bloke that rode broncos in the bush, was a roo-shooter, chased dingo bounties, ran fishing charters in wild seas and owned several businesses in and out of the cities. I am, for all intents and purposes, semi-retired from my own exploits.
I came from an era where, after you belted a bloke, you hauled him up afterwards, dusted him off and bought him a beer. The very same ethos often used in Eve by posting 'gf' in local as a mark of respect.
There are some 'Aussies' these days that go around in gangs, beat up innocents and kick them while they're down. Yep, that still happens in Eve but they STILL post 'gf' in local.
You, of all people, have got the steelcaps on, slamming me on **** you know nothing about and you dare to call me un Australian.
I'd bet my Austrian kangaroo to your silk pyjamas in mum's house that you never got out much mate.
Fair crack son, fair crack. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
Revajin
15 Minute Outliers Chained Reactions
15
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:49:00 -
[52] - Quote
I can feel that the community as a whole is upset. Therefore I have formulated an action plan to fix this.
Step one: Get really really mad. Step two: Create an alt for trolling the forums. Step three: Cancel all your alt accounts, if you don't have any simply claim you cancelled alts anyway Step four: Rally like-minded community members to go to Jita to shoot a statue. Step five: Create a long winded rant about how the game and CCP have gone to **** and post it on the forums. Step six: Attack and verbally abuse anyone who disagrees with you. Step seven: Get banned for voicing "your opinion" (read: being an *******). Step eight: Create yet another alt as a sockpuppet who rallies to your defense because CCP clearly is going on a witch hunt and trying to silence dissent by banning you. Step nine: Repeat steps 1-8 until victory is achieved Step ten: Celebrate your inevitable victory when CCP comes out and says that the community will be appeased and EVE will be saved.
Hey it worked for Incarna.
|
Mallak Azaria
Hole Plunderer's
8
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:50:00 -
[53] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:The Apostle wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:The Apostle wrote:I awoke this morning (Australia) to read the recent news about CCP job layoffs. ....... Why do people like you insist on making all Aussies look bad? Also, confirming OP is mad. That's the most un Australian thing I've heard for a long time. Check your postcode. Does it have 4 digits? Confirming OP is angry and mad. You don't get out much, do you? Here's a funny thing Aussie - and this is coming from a bloke that rode broncos in the bush, was a roo-shooter, chased dingo bounties, ran fishing charters in wild seas and owned several businesses in and out of the cities. I am, for all intents and purposes, semi-retired from my own exploits. I came from an era where, after you belted a bloke, you hauled him up afterwards, dusted him off and bought him a beer. The very same ethos often used in Eve by posting 'gf' in local as a mark of respect. There are some 'Aussies' these days that go around in gangs, beat up innocents and kick them while they're down. Yep, that still happens in Eve but they STILL post 'gf' in local. You, of all people, have got the steelcaps on, slamming me on **** you know nothing about and you dare to call me un Australian. I'd bet my Austrian kangaroo to your silk pyjamas in mum's house that you never got out much mate. Fair crack son, fair crack.
I will now refer to my original statement.
Why do people like you insist on making all Aussies look bad?
|
The Apostle
The Black Priests
537
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 23:01:00 -
[54] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:The Apostle wrote:Fair crack son, fair crack. I will now refer to my original statement. Why do people like you insist on making all Aussies look bad?
I will also refer to my original statement.
Quote:There are some good posts supportive of CCP and there are also some extremely insensitive dicks emerging from the woodwork.
And for mine, the dicks need to be belted for being the short range, self-centred aholes they are. Quid Pro Quo Aussie...
Besides, the topic isn't about which Aussie is the best type. My reference to Australia was to explain why it was "morning" when I made OP. Not so we could play spot the wombat.
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
Bomberlocks
CTRL-Q
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 23:04:00 -
[55] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:... The reality in all of this, despite some of the uninformed commentary to the contrary, you simply cannot sack managment to save a company. .... Bernie Ebbers and Ken Lay both gave you 10/10 for that bit. |
Skunk Gracklaw
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
188
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 23:08:00 -
[56] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Here's a funny thing Aussie - and this is coming from a bloke that rode broncos in the bush, was a roo-shooter, chased dingo bounties, ran fishing charters in wild seas and owned several businesses in and out of the cities. I am, for all intents and purposes, semi-retired from my own exploits. Holy **** The Apostle is Crocodile Dundee.
|
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
88
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 23:10:00 -
[57] - Quote
Ummm, I'm Australian and I agree with OP and I don't think he's making us look bad. I happen to believe any Aussie who disagrees with him would be making us Aussies look bad.
The "cool" thing to do would be disagree with OP. I bet you can't stand up and say something without first checking with all your "cool" friends to make sure it doesn't make you look bad. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
392
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 23:14:00 -
[58] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:I awoke this morning (Australia) to read the recent news about CCP job layoffs.
There are some good posts supportive of CCP and there are also some extremely insensitive dicks emerging from the woodwork.
And for mine, the dicks need to be belted for being the short range, self-centred aholes they are.
For all CCP's weaknesses they are also one of the great visionaries in the world of gaming. Visionaries always do it tougher than the follow the leader type businesses. They attract greater risk in every venture by being so.
Just like Eve. It was risky, it was visionary. It worked. Some latter stuff hasn't had time to emerge yet to be able to gauge the good/bad yet. Put simply, half of the huff and puff going on in Eve about CCP is just mindless drivel from no more than spoiled brats who have nfi and it's about time you stfu or gtfo.
In all of this, we're forgetting that the very people that made the decisions that made Eve are also the very people that had to pass on the bad news to several employees and subsequently their families. You know REAL people, with REAL lives...
The reality in all of this, despite some of the uninformed commentary to the contrary, you simply cannot sack managment to save a company. You can restructure, you can dump some middle staff but you cannot start at the top. Period.
Regardless, as an ex employer who has had to lay staff off, it is the hardest, most gut wrenching job you will ever possibly have to do. There will be some very, very sad senior management in CCP over the coming weeks and if you REALLY knew these things you wouldn't be so bloody thoughtless and insensitive.
Show some fn respect - to both the dismissed staff and to the people who have had to make the toughest call there is.
I don't usually think very highly of guys in hoods, but I'm going to give you props on this one.
And don't forget that I'll be voting for you come the CSM elections. Make me proud, Apostle.
Mr Epeen
If you can read this, you haven't blocked me yet. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
538
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 23:19:00 -
[59] - Quote
Skunk Gracklaw wrote:The Apostle wrote:Here's a funny thing Aussie - and this is coming from a bloke that rode broncos in the bush, was a roo-shooter, chased dingo bounties, ran fishing charters in wild seas and owned several businesses in and out of the cities. I am, for all intents and purposes, semi-retired from my own exploits. Holy **** The Apostle is Crocodile Dundee. Nicest thing you ever said Skunk. I'm touched. Unless ofc you know that the hardest job Croc Dundee (Paul Hogan) ever did was paint the Sydney Harbour Bridge.
(If you really wanted to insult me you woulda called me Steve Irwin. )
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
The Apostle
The Black Priests
538
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 23:25:00 -
[60] - Quote
non judgement wrote:Ummm, I'm Australian and I agree with OP and I don't think he's making us look bad. I happen to believe any Aussie who disagrees with him would be making us Aussies look bad.
The "cool" thing to do would be disagree with OP. I bet you can't stand up and say something without first checking with all your "cool" friends to make sure it doesn't make you look bad. He's welcome to disagree but there was no need to get personal.
I hate that "you're a moron" game, even though I can be really good at it myself when pushed. Although it's sad, because sneaky and slippery retorts are usually wasted on "THAT" kind of poster Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
|
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
89
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 23:30:00 -
[61] - Quote
Fair point. I guess my post does sorta make us Aussies look bad as well. I'll try to be personal only when someone isn't saying bad things about Aussies ;P |
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
60
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 23:35:00 -
[62] - Quote
Spend 4 years making one room
blame players for company falling apart
Hmmmm. |
Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope Gallente Federation
69
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 23:39:00 -
[63] - Quote
The Apostle wrote: The reality in all of this, despite some of the uninformed commentary to the contrary, you simply cannot sack managment to save a company. You can restructure, you can dump some middle staff but you cannot start at the top. Period.
Perhaps this kind of thinking is the cause of the current mess, not just with CCP but globally.
In fact management are totally responsible, and the higher they are the more responsible they are. THAT IS THE WHOLE ******* POINT OF MANAGEMENT.
Therefore they are precisely the ones who should be sacked, and better management found.
The Japanese have the right idea - the person at the top is the one who should have the balls and the sense of responsibility to commit "suicide" (i.e. voluntarily resign) when things go belly-up.
|
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
301
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 23:43:00 -
[64] - Quote
Barbelo Valentinian wrote: The Japanese have the right idea - the person at the top is the one who should have the balls and the sense of responsibility to commit "suicide" (i.e. voluntarily resign) when things go belly-up.
Apparently few nuclear reactors isn't "belly-up enough", so the policy got some flaws.
|
The Apostle
The Black Priests
539
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 23:44:00 -
[65] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:Spend 4 years making one room
blame players for company falling apart
Hmmmm. Keep to the facts mate please.
"The Room" and "The Door" occured less than 6 months ago. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
Sara XIII
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 23:44:00 -
[66] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:The Apostle posts some terrible threads. This is not one of them.
+1 |
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.
19
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 23:55:00 -
[67] - Quote
Slade Trillgon wrote:I can assure you that I never said that management needs to be fired. There are always more creative solutions if you catch my drift.
I see I'm not the only one inspired by that huge fish tank. Think of the fish, their fish food budget just got cut too.
|
The Apostle
The Black Priests
540
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 23:55:00 -
[68] - Quote
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:The Apostle wrote: The reality in all of this, despite some of the uninformed commentary to the contrary, you simply cannot sack managment to save a company. You can restructure, you can dump some middle staff but you cannot start at the top. Period.
Perhaps this kind of thinking is the cause of the current mess, not just with CCP but globally. In fact management are totally responsible, and the higher they are the more responsible they are. THAT IS THE WHOLE ******* POINT OF MANAGEMENT.Therefore they are precisely the ones who should be sacked, and better management found. The Japanese have the right idea - the person at the top is the one who should have the balls and the sense of responsibility to commit "suicide" (i.e. voluntarily resign) when things go belly-up. I cannot argue with this because it's beyond my expertise (as it is for most posters here). But the point of my OP is that there are real people involved with real lives and aspirations. At BOTH ends of the spectrum.
I'm simply of the opinion, that as someone who has had to fire staff from my own business because of mistakes I made, if I had fired myself then quite possibly nobody would have a job.
And someone else has already said it, if Hellmar was sacked (which I don't think he can be) then the future of CCP would be even more tenuous. That's to the detriment of everyone, INCLUDING you and I.
Regardless, as a boss, it is an extraordinary tough call sacking staff members, and in many cases, friends. I'm simply asking for a little empathy for all parties.
Yes Eve is a harsh game but for those leaving and those remaining at CCP, it's their life. We need to be mindful of the distinction. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 00:02:00 -
[69] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:RougeOperator wrote:Spend 4 years making one room
blame players for company falling apart
Hmmmm. Keep to the facts mate please. "The Room" and "The Door" occured less than 6 months ago.
Skill some reading compensation skills, he said making one room (i.e. developing). It was deployed 6 months ago but they spent the entire WoD team creating the engine to run the damn thing. It was not optimized, very resource intensive, can't compare to what current games are pumping out for similar content. They spent years on that engine to put that there and touted it....a room or a door. All that development and it was ****.l |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
541
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 00:09:00 -
[70] - Quote
Buruk Utama wrote:The Apostle wrote:RougeOperator wrote:Spend 4 years making one room
blame players for company falling apart
Hmmmm. Keep to the facts mate please. "The Room" and "The Door" occured less than 6 months ago. Skill some reading compensation skills, he said making one room (i.e. developing). It was deployed 6 months ago but they spent the entire WoD team creating the engine to run the damn thing. It was not optimized, very resource intensive, can't compare to what current games are pumping out for similar content. They spent years on that engine to put that there and touted it....a room or a door. All that development and it was ****.l Reading compensation?
I did compensate (for the lack of knowledge of CCP's ultimate vision).
Did ID software use a proprietary engine? They've been around longer than half the posters in the forums. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
|
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
60
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 00:19:00 -
[71] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Buruk Utama wrote:The Apostle wrote:RougeOperator wrote:Spend 4 years making one room
blame players for company falling apart
Hmmmm. Keep to the facts mate please. "The Room" and "The Door" occured less than 6 months ago. Skill some reading compensation skills, he said making one room (i.e. developing). It was deployed 6 months ago but they spent the entire WoD team creating the engine to run the damn thing. It was not optimized, very resource intensive, can't compare to what current games are pumping out for similar content. They spent years on that engine to put that there and touted it....a room or a door. All that development and it was ****.l Reading compensation? I did compensate (for the lack of knowledge of CCP's ultimate vision). Did ID software use a proprietary engine? They've been around longer than half the posters in the forums.
No seriously are you sleeping with someone in CCP upper management or something?
Ultimate vision? Are you suffering from some from of mental damage?
Brainwashing is to mild a term for your comments.
|
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 00:23:00 -
[72] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Did ID software use a proprietary engine? They've been around longer than half the posters in the forums.
Lets look at Skyrim v. WoD. WoD started development in 2007, Skyrim started development in 2008 after fallout. Bethseda built an entire new engine, AI, graphics input, etc like CCP has tried to do with WoD. Skyrim launches in a few weeks as one of the best RPG of all time...WoD created a fraken room! I'm sorta pissy by this entire development and believe the entire mess lies at the foot of CEO and upper management in the attitude they took towards the players and are now trying to blame all for these woes but those responsible, themselves.
I'm sorry but I don't see his letter as anything but an attempt to stem the blood flow. The game may be mortally wounded at this point and he still thinks he didn't do anything wrong. Look at the latest PI changes that are coming out and the many many things wrong with the implementation (not the change itself, but implementation and secondary affects which were apparently never thought about). CCP. Remember his words: Watch what they do, not what they say. So far CCP likes to say many things but everything regarding eve development currently is solely related to DUST integration and gearing up micro transactions to use plex sales as a replacement to sub numbers. |
Comy 1
Ore Mongers Indecisive Certainty
43
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 00:23:00 -
[73] - Quote
While it sucks that people lose their jobs, I actually prefer that the community team takes a bigger hit than actual devs. You know devs, the people that actually make the new shiny stuff you people want.
While I understand that all you forum warriors are sad faced about your favorite chat partners have to leave, their jobs are not as important for the future of EVE.
Why?
This place is too full of people who love nothing more than whine at anything they can for the sake of whining. Keep as many devs as you can, give me new content! |
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
60
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 00:24:00 -
[74] - Quote
I have a hard time respecting a company that puts out a grovelling letter of apology just a bit before sacking a lot of people before the Holidays.
Hilmar elevated from simply idiotic megalomania to scum. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
541
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 00:28:00 -
[75] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:No seriously are you sleeping with someone in CCP upper management or something?
Ultimate vision? Are you suffering from some from of mental damage?
Brainwashing is to mild a term for your comments.
"brainwashed" is the past tense, so even if I accept I'm suffering from "brainwashing", for you Sir, it's too late.
Now - back to the question, it's double jeapordy time!
1) Did ID software buy or create their own engine? 2) Are they still developing their own engine? 3) Are they still in business? 4) Do you remember Commander Keen, Wolfenstein and Doom? 5) When were they released?
Gogogo...... Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
393
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 00:29:00 -
[76] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:I have a hard time respecting ....
Let's just leave it at that.
Of course you could prove me wrong by linking even one post in which you have something positive to say. But we know that will never happen.
Mr Epeen
If you can read this, you haven't blocked me yet. |
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
61
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 00:30:00 -
[77] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:RougeOperator wrote:No seriously are you sleeping with someone in CCP upper management or something?
Ultimate vision? Are you suffering from some from of mental damage?
Brainwashing is to mild a term for your comments.
"brainwashed" is the past tense, so even if I accept I'm suffering from "brainwashing", for you Sir, it's too late. Now - back to the question, it's double jeapordy time! 1) Did ID software buy or create their own engine? 2) Are they still developing their own engine? 3) Are they still in business? 4) Do you remember Commander Keen, Wolfenstein and Doom? 5) When were they released? Gogogo......
Did you mean to quote the other guy or something?
Man you are one metal midget. |
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
61
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 00:33:00 -
[78] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:RougeOperator wrote:I have a hard time respecting .... Let's just leave it at that. Of course you could prove me wrong by linking even one post in which you have something positive to say. But we know that will never happen. Mr Epeen
that's cause it would be from 2 years ago on the old forums.
Thats how often CCP has let us down since what Apocrypha? |
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 00:33:00 -
[79] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:RougeOperator wrote:No seriously are you sleeping with someone in CCP upper management or something?
Ultimate vision? Are you suffering from some from of mental damage?
Brainwashing is to mild a term for your comments.
"brainwashed" is the past tense, so even if I accept I'm suffering from "brainwashing", for you Sir, it's too late. Now - back to the question, it's double jeapordy time! 1) Did ID software buy or create their own engine? 2) Are they still developing their own engine? 3) Are they still in business? 4) Do you remember Commander Keen, Wolfenstein and Doom? 5) When were they released? Gogogo......
1) created 2) no they were bought out and is owned by a company different than the original founders, they are no longer involved except 1 programmer 3) see number 2, they are not the same entity as the original so under your attempted parallel draw, CCP should be bought out by a much better company at computer games and the original founders pushed out and replaced with people with proper business and game background experience.
|
Jalapeno Life Preserver
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 00:41:00 -
[80] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:Spend 4 years making one room
blame players for company falling apart
Hmmmm.
Thank you for reminding me how pissed off I am that I've waiting for establishments for this long and then they come out with an utter failure. I feed on the kind of raw hatred I'm experiencing |
|
The Apostle
The Black Priests
547
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 00:52:00 -
[81] - Quote
Buruk Utama wrote:CCP should be bought out by a much better company at computer games and the original founders pushed out and replaced with people with proper business and game background experience.
So says Buruk Utama from "Science and Trade Institue ". (I had to, ohh the irony.. seriously, it's funny. yes it is... seriously)
But, jokes aside.... It was the technological decisions made by ID that made ID a very worthy and very wealthy company.
They were good and were bought BECAUSE they developed their own engine. They were innovators and it would be fair to say that they set the standards for gaming that we still enjoy, even today.
NEVER forget one thing. The SAME people "wasting their time on their new engine" (as your expert opinion tries to point out) developed Eve. You know, the ground-breaking, innovative, never before seen space environment that all others TRY to copy but cannot.
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 00:58:00 -
[82] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:
NEVER forget one thing. The SAME people "wasting their time on their new engine" (as your expert opinion tries to point out) developed Eve. You know, the ground-breaking, innovative, never before seen space environment that all others TRY to copy but cannot.
Uh did you not read my previous post to that one. I compare CCP to Bethseda and the creation of 2 new engines for their games. Bethseda created and is now launching one of the best engines out there for any sort of game environment. I never complained that they were creating their own engine. My chief complaint was the creation they made is horribly coded, not-efficient on any level of processing (it shouldn't tax a 4870x2 card to max resources for 1 apartment rendering), and looks like something made in 2004. Look at Skyrim and the engine they created for that, hell look at fallout 3 or oblivion. Each was a uniquely created engine in a few years time. Yet during that same time that Skyrim was created/built/launched CCP gave you a room which could burn your video card out.
I would love for them to create something new, however you cannot completely cut off all focus and funding for the only game paying you and not expect a backlash when people don't find a first person experience comparable with internet spaceship pew pew. |
Joneleth Rein
Delta vane Corp. Nostradamus Effect
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 01:32:00 -
[83] - Quote
Right. Because it really does wonders for companies to focus on one thing and one game alone. Specially for game developing studios in this economy
Let me ask you this.
Would you feel bad if part of the revenue that Dust or WoD would produce was also given for Eve?
Did the thought cross anyone's mind? Spider Pig!-áSpider Pig! Does what a Spider Pig does.. Can he swing? From a web.. No he can't. He's a pig. |
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
69
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 01:36:00 -
[84] - Quote
Joneleth Rein wrote:Right. Because it really does wonders for companies to focus on one thing and one game alone. Specially for game developing studios in this economy
Let me ask you this.
Would you feel bad if part of the revenue that Dust or WoD would produce was also given for Eve?
Did the thought cross anyone's mind?
Its a matter of fact that the porked over EvE in favor of the other projects.
No one had a problem with them working on new things but you cant do it while screwing over the existing product.
Which is what they did, they wasted years of development on crappy incarna with jack all to show for it. While old bugs, Content and problems were ignored. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
549
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 01:41:00 -
[85] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote: Which is what they did, they wasted years of development on crappy incarna with jack all to show for it. While old bugs, Content and problems were ignored.
errr. cough. Incarna has never been fully rolled out. They haven't even turned Carbon on yet.....
Patience my son. Patience. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
69
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 01:53:00 -
[86] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:RougeOperator wrote: Which is what they did, they wasted years of development on crappy incarna with jack all to show for it. While old bugs, Content and problems were ignored.
errr. cough. Incarna has never been fully rolled out. They haven't even turned Carbon on yet..... Patience my son. Patience.
They had more years then it takes most game companies take to make a complete game from the ground up.
Yeah patient waiting left the harbor long ago. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
550
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 02:00:00 -
[87] - Quote
Buruk Utama wrote:The Apostle wrote:
NEVER forget one thing. The SAME people "wasting their time on their new engine" (as your expert opinion tries to point out) developed Eve. You know, the ground-breaking, innovative, never before seen space environment that all others TRY to copy but cannot.
Uh did you not read my previous post to that one. I compare CCP to Bethseda and the creation of 2 new engines for their games. Bethseda created and is now launching one of the best engines out there for any sort of game environment. I never complained that they were creating their own engine. My chief complaint was the creation they made is horribly coded, not-efficient on any level of processing (it shouldn't tax a 4870x2 card to max resources for 1 apartment rendering), and looks like something made in 2004. Look at Skyrim and the engine they created for that, hell look at fallout 3 or oblivion. Each was a uniquely created engine in a few years time. Yet during that same time that Skyrim was created/built/launched CCP gave you a room which could burn your video card out. I would love for them to create something new, however you cannot completely cut off all focus and funding for the only game paying you and not expect a backlash when people don't find a first person experience comparable with internet spaceship pew pew. Nah. I get that. But none of the engine development has been completed. None of the final product rollouts have occurred.
You're making a judgement, supported by some important gaming historical facts, on a product that isn't even officially launched yet let alone have a history.
I'm not quite sure why you're following this line. There's nothing to draw a parallel from yet. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
Hicksimus
Road to Ruin
57
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 02:16:00 -
[88] - Quote
Thanks for trying, but I've never been laid off before because I've been smart enough to work for employers that know how to succeed. When you are job searching you should want to know everything you legally can about an employer just as an employer wants to know everything that they legally can about you. Just as they monitor your progress you should monitor theirs. If you see your employer keep ignoring the people paying for the product then you should jump ship.
Their lack of forward planning is a lack of self respect and I will not respect that. Things I have realized from the EvE forums: Many people beleive cost means money and only money |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
552
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 02:22:00 -
[89] - Quote
Hicksimus wrote:Thanks for trying, but I've never been laid off before because I've been smart enough to work for employers that know how to succeed. When you are job searching you should want to know everything you legally can about an employer just as an employer wants to know everything that they legally can about you. Just as they monitor your progress you should monitor theirs. If you see your employer keep ignoring the people paying for the product then you should jump ship.
Their lack of forward planning is a lack of self respect and I will not respect that. 2 things.
Point #1 "I've been smart enough to work for employers that know how to succeed. " << But never for yourself? Funny how everyone who knows how to run a company works for an employer.
Point #2 "forward planning" << CCP staff didn't launch Eve yesterday. It was 8 years ago. The staff they employed - AND the CEO - made this happen. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
69
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 02:25:00 -
[90] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Hicksimus wrote:Thanks for trying, but I've never been laid off before because I've been smart enough to work for employers that know how to succeed. When you are job searching you should want to know everything you legally can about an employer just as an employer wants to know everything that they legally can about you. Just as they monitor your progress you should monitor theirs. If you see your employer keep ignoring the people paying for the product then you should jump ship.
Their lack of forward planning is a lack of self respect and I will not respect that. 2 things. Point #1 "I've been smart enough to work for employers that know how to succeed. " << But never for yourself? Funny how everyone who knows how to run a company works for an employer. Point #2 "forward planning" << CCP staff didn't launch Eve yesterday. It was 8 years ago. The staff they employed - AND the CEO - made this happen.
Yeah it would be great if they had that CEO again instead of the current one. And originally Simon and schuster got eve off the ground. |
|
Joneleth Rein
Delta vane Corp. Nostradamus Effect
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 02:29:00 -
[91] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:Joneleth Rein wrote:Right. Because it really does wonders for companies to focus on one thing and one game alone. Specially for game developing studios in this economy
Let me ask you this.
Would you feel bad if part of the revenue that Dust or WoD would produce was also given for Eve?
Did the thought cross anyone's mind? Its a matter of fact that the porked over EvE in favor of the other projects. No one had a problem with them working on new things but you cant do it while screwing over the existing product. Which is what they did, they wasted years of development on crappy incarna with jack all to show for it. While old bugs, Content and problems were ignored.
Which eventually will benefit CCP and Eve because obviously they do need to pay their bills and look at the future and they can't just sit on their butts. I don't like pulling random numbers out of my head but what if it wasn't cutting it? Would you rather lose EVE than just wait 1 more year for them to actually finish? And actually, looking back at the history I have never seen a more quickly evolving and improving game and tbh I'm starting to get the feeling it's spoiled people a little too much. Things don't just happen. Priorities aren't always what we want them to be and someone else's plan might be looking far more ahead than ours.
I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm new to the game that I still hold some romantic value over it and CCP. Maybe i'll become a bitter vet in a couple years (doubt it).
And from my point of view they have a lot of things to show for it and they'r just a preview still. 2 years to develop the infrastructure engine to handle two different aspects of the same universe while in the meantime having to tackle the complexities both at a macro and micro level of a sandbox game. That enough should bring fear to anyone who has 1)coded for a project this size 2)has actually participated in a design process.
But my point isn't to back CCP up. Just hold your horses with the pitchforks and the torches and think about who's house you'll be setting on fire. Collateral isn't always manageable and sometimes it turns up to be the wrong house.
Peace out
Spider Pig!-áSpider Pig! Does what a Spider Pig does.. Can he swing? From a web.. No he can't. He's a pig. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
50
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 02:36:00 -
[92] - Quote
Buruk Utama wrote: Lets look at Skyrim v. WoD. WoD started development in 2007, Skyrim started development in 2008 after fallout. Bethseda built an entire new engine, AI, graphics input, etc like CCP has tried to do with WoD. Skyrim launches in a few weeks as one of the best RPG of all time...WoD created a fraken room! I'm sorta pissy by this entire development and believe the entire mess lies at the foot of CEO and upper management in the attitude they took towards the players and are now trying to blame all for these woes but those responsible, themselves.
I'm sorry but I don't see his letter as anything but an attempt to stem the blood flow. The game may be mortally wounded at this point and he still thinks he didn't do anything wrong. Look at the latest PI changes that are coming out and the many many things wrong with the implementation (not the change itself, but implementation and secondary affects which were apparently never thought about). CCP. Remember his words: Watch what they do, not what they say. So far CCP likes to say many things but everything regarding eve development currently is solely related to DUST integration and gearing up micro transactions to use plex sales as a replacement to sub numbers.
RougeOperator wrote:I have a hard time respecting a company that puts out a grovelling letter of apology just a bit before sacking a lot of people before the Holidays.
Hilmar elevated from simply idiotic megalomania to scum.
I agree,
It looks like CCP/Eve is falling down further into the Rabbit Hole, probably landing in Never Never Land. (DUST, WoD, NEX, etc.)
One thing is for sure, we're not in Kansas anymore. (Rushed content released, Bad coding, Forum censorship, etc)
One simple fact of life - a wounded animal always bellows just before it dies. (The Infamous Letter, Non-formative Dev Blogs, Company rollback, etc.)
When a Company is trying to repair public relations with a disgruntled and upset Community showing a declining subscription rate, the last thing needed is to remove the Liaison (GM's) between the Company and the Customer. Doing so only amplifies the community's perception of distrust and low estimation towards the company.
A better approach might have been to reduce wages or cut back working overtime hours instead of laying-off or terminating employees. Of course, if CCP/Eve is indeed a sinking ship - then the rats are always first to leave while the Captain (Hilmar) goes down with the ship.
Hopefully I'm wrong. I'm just tired of all this stuff, starting to wish I had never even heard of Eve. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
552
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 02:46:00 -
[93] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:I have a hard time respecting a company that puts out a grovelling letter of apology just a bit before sacking a lot of people before the Holidays.
Hilmar elevated from simply idiotic megalomania to scum. I missed this post. Probably because I might have skipped the poster rather than the subject
But hey, Hellmar apologized to YOU, the player and stated that "he's on it"....
He acts, rationalizes, as CEO's have to do, to get Eve back on track, which YOU demanded, and he apologized for.
So he was nothing more than "a simple idiotic meglomaniac" and has now become "scum"?
I don't get it.
YOU guys ASKED for this.
Though I s'pose now you're going to tell me that he didn't sack who YOU wanted sacked. And of course, you're the CEO of CCP and had to make the choices yourself?
Maybe he should have given you a list of employees and YOU could work out who goes/who stays. It's easy. Really is.
Eenie Meenie, Minie Mo.......
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
70
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 02:49:00 -
[94] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:RougeOperator wrote:I have a hard time respecting a company that puts out a grovelling letter of apology just a bit before sacking a lot of people before the Holidays.
Hilmar elevated from simply idiotic megalomania to scum. I missed this post. Probably because I might have skipped the poster rather than the subject But hey, Hellmar apologized to YOU, the player and stated that "he's on it".... He acts, rationalizes, as CEO's have to do, to get Eve back on track, which YOU demanded, and he apologized for. So he was nothing more than "a simple idiotic meglomaniac" and has now become "scum"? I don't get it. YOU guys ASKED for this. Though I s'pose now you're going to tell me that he didn't sack who YOU wanted sacked. And of course, you're the CEO of CCP and had to make the choices yourself? Maybe he should have given you a list of employees and YOU could work out who goes/who stays. It's easy. Really is. Eenie Meenie, Minie Mo.......
Way to project and put words in peoples mouths dude.
This isnt what we asked for. Most of us have no problem with the sacking of WoD devs. Thats a fair call. We have issue with the sacking of the community teams. Which flys in the face of what we want.
I mean seriously are you freaking hilmar or what? Or is he your lover or something?
|
Deucalion Ex Mortis
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 02:52:00 -
[95] - Quote
Thank You Apostle
+1
You have my vote sir!
Please keep it up.
As for CCP employees past and present. Thank you for making/help make the greatest game around. Even with its faults eve is the best. I hope CCP can weather the storm. I look forward to Dusk, WoD and many more CCP games in the future. CCP is the best hope we have to bringing an end to the stagnation in the MMO industry. Be bold pilot!
For the employees that lost there jobs today. I wish you and your families the best. Thank you for all you have done for the community, the industry, and the game. |
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
70
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 02:53:00 -
[96] - Quote
Deucalion Ex Mortis wrote:Thank You Apostle
+1
You have my vote sir!
Please keep it up.
As for CCP employees past and present. Thank you for making/help make the greatest game around. Even with its faults eve is the best. I hope CCP can weather the storm. I look forward to Dusk, WoD and many more CCP games in the future. CCP is the best hope we have to bringing an end to the stagnation in the MMO industry. Be bold pilot!
For the employees that lost there jobs today. I wish you and your families the best. Thank you for all you have done for the community, the industry, and the game.
The Apostles Alts come into play.
Cute. |
Mallak Azaria
Hole Plunderer's
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 02:55:00 -
[97] - Quote
The Apostle wrote: He's welcome to disagree but there was no need to get personal.
I seem to have missed the part where I got personal.
|
The Apostle
The Black Priests
552
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 02:59:00 -
[98] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:The Apostle wrote: He's welcome to disagree but there was no need to get personal.
I seem to have missed the part where I got personal. [this space left intentionally blank]
Hang 5 mate. I'll go get the post.
Aha..... Here we go... Post #24
Mallak Azaria wrote:Why do people like you insist on making all Aussies look bad?
Also, confirming OP is mad. k. We done here? Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
72
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 03:01:00 -
[99] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:The Apostle wrote: He's welcome to disagree but there was no need to get personal.
I seem to have missed the part where I got personal. [this space left intentionally blank] Hang 5 mate. I'll go get the post.
You are a sad sad person.
That personal enough?
I know its accurate and all. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
552
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 03:05:00 -
[100] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:Deucalion Ex Mortis wrote:Thank You Apostle
+1
You have my vote sir!
Please keep it up.
As for CCP employees past and present. Thank you for making/help make the greatest game around. Even with its faults eve is the best. I hope CCP can weather the storm. I look forward to Dusk, WoD and many more CCP games in the future. CCP is the best hope we have to bringing an end to the stagnation in the MMO industry. Be bold pilot!
For the employees that lost there jobs today. I wish you and your families the best. Thank you for all you have done for the community, the industry, and the game. The Apostles Alts come into play. Cute. tch tch. The Fools Cubbyhouse. Make it personal.
Psst... I have a total of 15 chars to call on. I could. I don't. I can be foolish and stupid all by myself. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
|
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
72
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 03:14:00 -
[101] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:RougeOperator wrote:Deucalion Ex Mortis wrote:Thank You Apostle
+1
You have my vote sir!
Please keep it up.
As for CCP employees past and present. Thank you for making/help make the greatest game around. Even with its faults eve is the best. I hope CCP can weather the storm. I look forward to Dusk, WoD and many more CCP games in the future. CCP is the best hope we have to bringing an end to the stagnation in the MMO industry. Be bold pilot!
For the employees that lost there jobs today. I wish you and your families the best. Thank you for all you have done for the community, the industry, and the game. The Apostles Alts come into play. Cute. tch tch. The Fools Cubbyhouse. Make it personal. Psst... I have a total of 15 chars to call on. I could. I don't. I can be foolish and stupid all by myself.
Explains with clarity how you have so many likes. LOL.
|
The Apostle
The Black Priests
562
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 03:21:00 -
[102] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote: Explains with clarity how you have so many likes. LOL.
C'mon mate. Go have a cuppa and a lie down. You're starting to look a bit silly. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 03:25:00 -
[103] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:RougeOperator wrote: Explains with clarity how you have so many likes. LOL.
C'mon mate. Go have a cuppa and a lie down. You're starting to look a bit silly.
You've been at this for over 6 hours straight. Go to bed and we'll continue in the morning. |
Mallak Azaria
Hole Plunderer's
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 03:34:00 -
[104] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:The Apostle wrote: He's welcome to disagree but there was no need to get personal.
I seem to have missed the part where I got personal. [this space left intentionally blank] Hang 5 mate. I'll go get the post. Aha..... Here we go... Post #24 Mallak Azaria wrote:Why do people like you insist on making all Aussies look bad?
Also, confirming OP is mad. k. We done here?
How on earth did you manage to take that personally? That's very un-Australian of you.
|
The Apostle
The Black Priests
577
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 03:38:00 -
[105] - Quote
Buruk Utama wrote:The Apostle wrote:RougeOperator wrote: Explains with clarity how you have so many likes. LOL.
C'mon mate. Go have a cuppa and a lie down. You're starting to look a bit silly. You've been at this for over 6 hours straight. Go to bed and we'll continue in the morning. Hey man. It's 2.00 in the afternoon here Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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Azahni Vah'nos
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
45
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 03:38:00 -
[106] - Quote
Jaiimez Skor wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:RougeOperator wrote: Ill take under consideration what you say as soon as you can answer for me why Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson. Still has a job?
I can answer if you don't understand by yourself. - He made mistakes - He admitted that he made mistakes - He is honestly sorry about the mistakes and learned plenty from them - He committed to return EvE back to track and increase communication to prevent similiar stuff happening in future - He is making necessary adjustments to recover from the mistakes and setting sail to new course Today's actions are part of the difficult recovery process. Even good CEO may make mistakes as long he has enough balls take the responsibility if crap hits the fan. Hilmar is doing just this. Laying your own employees off is most difficult task you can give yourself. It isn't easy and you don't take it lightly. You do it only if it is inevitable to prevent even worse events. Every worker you fire you fire because of your own mistakes. That really makes you think what being humble means. I believe also the nature of how CCP is ran it is not a publically owned company, that means there is no board of directors, it means Hilmar is the boss, there is nobody who can fire him, he is the head of the company, there is no board of directors to vote him outta the job, the only way he can lose it is if #1 he quits due to pressure from the community or staffing, or #2 his company goes to hell because everybody leaves in protest or it isn't making money. I also do not believe Hilmar deserves to be sacked, he has screwed up he knows that, I do not believe that CCP are only after fattening their wallets unlike what alot of people say I do believe they are trying to make more money, but they're a business that's what businesses do, but I also believe the extra money will be reinvested into EvE as well as their other projects. Although on a different note, i'm slightly confused, how is realising you're stretched too thin and trying to do too much with not enough people mean you have to reduce staff numbers, surely if you don't have enough people, the best thing is to employ more, the only reason you'd lay people off if there are finanacial concerns and you cannot afford to employ more staff to make up for the extra hours needed to not be stretched thing, or you are concerned that the company has become too large too fast, and it is part of the reason for the lack of communication and other issues and wish to downsize and get the company back to how it previously was. Knowing CCP I wouldn't be suprised if it is in an attempt to fix their communication issues and get back to being that close friendly developers that we all love, rather than becoming so large they have to become too corporate and cold to the community to avoid any issues with communication. CCP is run by a board consisting of 7 people: Vilhj+ílmur +Porsteinsson (chairman), Birgir M+ír Ragnarsson, David Fialkow, Sigur+¦ur +ôlafsson, Stephen Wieck, Reynir Har+¦arson and deputy board members: Reynir Har+¦arson and Isaac Kato Nex (Cash Shop)-á/ Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
577
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 03:41:00 -
[107] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:The Apostle wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:The Apostle wrote: He's welcome to disagree but there was no need to get personal.
I seem to have missed the part where I got personal. [this space left intentionally blank] Hang 5 mate. I'll go get the post. Aha..... Here we go... Post #24 Mallak Azaria wrote:Why do people like you insist on making all Aussies look bad?
Also, confirming OP is mad. k. We done here? How on earth did you manage to take that personally? That's very un-Australian of you. If you meant it to be Australian v Australian you'd have simply called me a mongrel bastard.
But hey, whatever. Grab a beer cobber and celebrate the fact that it's Thursday. Any excuse yeah? Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
246
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 03:43:00 -
[108] - Quote
To the people wanting to knock Hilmar down, i ask you this:
Did you like EVE before Incarnia?
If yes, then he is responsible for 1 (apparent) error.
If not, why are you still here? Do you like playing games you don't like?
Incarnia bought in SM 3. THAT is what taxed video cards. And since SM 3 has been out for about a decade, if you got a burnt out video card then it was a golden opportunity to buy a new one hey?
Also, personally i love it how people QQ all day long about bugs in EVE and coding methods used, but QQ even more when CCP spend time fixing it...
Not lets face reality here for a minute. The GFC that has been going on for the past 3 years is still happening. There are not many places where it's not affecting anyone. [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
577
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 03:46:00 -
[109] - Quote
Azahni Vah'nos wrote:CCP is run by a board consisting of 7 people: Vilhj+ílmur +Porsteinsson (chairman), Birgir M+ír Ragnarsson, David Fialkow, Sigur+¦ur +ôlafsson, Stephen Wieck, Reynir Har+¦arson and deputy board members: Reynir Har+¦arson and Isaac Kato And the decision/s needed for restructure and refocus would have been made at a boards' request or at the very least, the boards' full approval.
Thx for that info. +1 Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
|
Mallak Azaria
Hole Plunderer's
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 03:49:00 -
[110] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:If you meant it to be Australian v Australian you'd have simply called me a mongrel bastard. But hey, whatever. Grab a beer cobber and celebrate the fact that it's Thursday. Any excuse yeah?
Being Australian doesn't make me a bogan, but I'll take the beer since I'm on leave :D
|
|
Jalapeno Life Preserver
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 03:50:00 -
[111] - Quote
Headerman wrote:To the people wanting to knock Hilmar down, i ask you this:
Did you like EVE before Incarnia?
If yes, then he is responsible for 1 (apparent) error.
If not, why are you still here? Do you like playing games you don't like?
Incarnia bought in SM 3. THAT is what taxed video cards. And since SM 3 has been out for about a decade, if you got a burnt out video card then it was a golden opportunity to buy a new one hey?
Also, personally i love it how people QQ all day long about bugs in EVE and coding methods used, but QQ even more when CCP spend time fixing it...
Not lets face reality here for a minute. The GFC that has been going on for the past 3 years is still happening. There are not many places where it's not affecting anyone.
I had a week old, new, updated computer before Incarna. In high settings it fries eggs. I can run it in low setting but this suggests that something is wrong to me. |
Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
246
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 03:50:00 -
[112] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:The Apostle wrote:If you meant it to be Australian v Australian you'd have simply called me a mongrel bastard. But hey, whatever. Grab a beer cobber and celebrate the fact that it's Thursday. Any excuse yeah? Being Australian doesn't make me a bogan, but I'll take the beer since I'm on leave :D
Ha i got a beer in hand and i am at work in the office :-+P
Still, i would rather be on leave.... [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
579
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 03:54:00 -
[113] - Quote
Jalapeno Life Preserver wrote:Headerman wrote:To the people wanting to knock Hilmar down, i ask you this:
Did you like EVE before Incarnia?
If yes, then he is responsible for 1 (apparent) error.
If not, why are you still here? Do you like playing games you don't like?
Incarnia bought in SM 3. THAT is what taxed video cards. And since SM 3 has been out for about a decade, if you got a burnt out video card then it was a golden opportunity to buy a new one hey?
Also, personally i love it how people QQ all day long about bugs in EVE and coding methods used, but QQ even more when CCP spend time fixing it...
Not lets face reality here for a minute. The GFC that has been going on for the past 3 years is still happening. There are not many places where it's not affecting anyone. I had a week old, new, updated computer before Incarna. In high settings it fries eggs. I can run it in low setting but this suggests that something is wrong to me. It's odd that I'm running a system at least 5 years old and never had the problem. I did running multiple accounts but that's unrealistic anyway.
Is being "new" a cause? Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
2
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Posted - 2011.10.20 03:54:00 -
[114] - Quote
Sorry no, no respect to those that didnt show it to us on the first place. Your apologetic ways and background info story only serves to entrench you on one side of the fence, that is all. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
579
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 03:55:00 -
[115] - Quote
Headerman wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:The Apostle wrote:If you meant it to be Australian v Australian you'd have simply called me a mongrel bastard. But hey, whatever. Grab a beer cobber and celebrate the fact that it's Thursday. Any excuse yeah? Being Australian doesn't make me a bogan, but I'll take the beer since I'm on leave :D Ha i got a beer in hand and i am at work in the office :-+P Still, i would rather be on leave.... I wanna know where you work? You sound a bit like Kev from Swift and Shift..... Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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Mallak Azaria
Hole Plunderer's
9
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Posted - 2011.10.20 03:56:00 -
[116] - Quote
Headerman wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:The Apostle wrote:If you meant it to be Australian v Australian you'd have simply called me a mongrel bastard. But hey, whatever. Grab a beer cobber and celebrate the fact that it's Thursday. Any excuse yeah? Being Australian doesn't make me a bogan, but I'll take the beer since I'm on leave :D Ha i got a beer in hand and i am at work in the office :-+P Still, i would rather be on leave....
My job doesn't allow for that, but the pay is worth the inconvenience.
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Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
246
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Posted - 2011.10.20 03:58:00 -
[117] - Quote
I would tell you all where i worked, but you'd probably email the boss and rat me out... -.- [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |
Demon Azrakel
Defiant.. Narwhals Ate My Duck
43
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 03:58:00 -
[118] - Quote
Reverand Pastor wrote:The people laid off is a big concern. Community Devs and Mods have been axed. The people who are the link between ccp and player base. This is while touting new interaction between us and the company. so strange.
qft |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
581
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Posted - 2011.10.20 03:59:00 -
[119] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Headerman wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:The Apostle wrote:If you meant it to be Australian v Australian you'd have simply called me a mongrel bastard. But hey, whatever. Grab a beer cobber and celebrate the fact that it's Thursday. Any excuse yeah? Being Australian doesn't make me a bogan, but I'll take the beer since I'm on leave :D Ha i got a beer in hand and i am at work in the office :-+P Still, i would rather be on leave.... My job doesn't allow for that, but the pay is worth the inconvenience. I did suggest you were a minor earlier. Maybe I shoulda said miner
If so, betcha you don't drive a Hulk when you're home. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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Mallak Azaria
Hole Plunderer's
9
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Posted - 2011.10.20 04:22:00 -
[120] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:If so, betcha you don't drive a Hulk when you're home.
Good guess. I actually spend most of my time at home riding the forums.
Does it show?
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Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
35
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Posted - 2011.10.20 04:28:00 -
[121] - Quote
I dunno - I think it's a bit drastic to slam CCP for the cuts. I'll wait and see what happens, but I think it's to early to crucify CCP. |
Da Vinci Code
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 04:33:00 -
[122] - Quote
Posting in a CCP Upper Management Alt Thread. |
Da Vinci Code
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 04:35:00 -
[123] - Quote
Why Doesn't CCP Upper Management take a 20% pay cut instead of firing those poor people before the holidays? |
Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
246
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Posted - 2011.10.20 04:38:00 -
[124] - Quote
Da Vinci Code wrote:Why Doesn't CCP Upper Management take a 20% pay cut instead of firing those poor people before the holidays?
They probably already have? [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |
Reverand Pastor
Dynasty Ink.
7
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Posted - 2011.10.20 04:40:00 -
[125] - Quote
Do you know what happens when you assume? |
Dessau
0
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Posted - 2011.10.20 04:46:00 -
[126] - Quote
Da Vinci Code wrote:Why Doesn't CCP Upper Management take a 20% pay cut instead of firing those poor people before the holidays? Can't be seen at the Yacht Club wearing jeans costing only $800. People will talk. |
Swooshie
USA Canada Private Corp
35
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Posted - 2011.10.20 04:49:00 -
[127] - Quote
I tend to agree with The Apostle's views quite a bit on many subjects and often appreciate his leveled head and this topic is no exception. I agree that credit is due when credit is deserved and it is true that EVE was brought to us by those seniors such as Hillmar.
But, for the sake of being fair, let's not forget that some geniuses and great innovators of this world fell prey to greed and complacency before and doomed what they worked so hard to accomplish in the long run.
I am not saying this is the case, I have nowhere near the proper information to even begin to form a judgment.
I just wanted to remind the OP, in the name of sound reasoning, that such as strong position based on strong convictions such as the ones he is displaying do, in fact, have a risk of being wrong despite their apparently undeniable logic at first glance.
TL;DR : It is possible to become a moron/tyrant/prick and more even after being the creator or initiator of something of immense greatness. BUT I have no pretension of saying that it is what happened here! "It is when I think about meaning that I lose what I meant to say." -á-á-á -Swooshie |
Reverand Pastor
Dynasty Ink.
7
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Posted - 2011.10.20 04:54:00 -
[128] - Quote
Couldnt agree more The Apostle is taking the stance of "people who are pissed off are wrong" wich is a bad stance to take for any type of dialouge. Arguing against facts makes you look Baghdad Bobbish and narrow minded. There are facts laid out by the playerbase AND CCP that support the stand a large swath of people are taking. Telling people do not behave this way is asinine and completely counter-productive |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
25
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Posted - 2011.10.20 05:01:00 -
[129] - Quote
In here showing some FN respect! |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
586
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Posted - 2011.10.20 05:30:00 -
[130] - Quote
Reverand Pastor wrote:Couldnt agree more The Apostle is taking the stance of "people who are pissed off are wrong" wich is a bad stance to take for any type of dialouge. Arguing against facts makes you look Baghdad Bobbish and narrow minded. There are facts laid out by the playerbase AND CCP that support the stand a large swath of people are taking. Telling people do not behave this way is asinine and completely counter-productive Never said the posters were wrong. Never said CCP was right or wrong.
What I said was show some respect for the people involved - including senior management. If anyone seriously thinks anyone in CCP is laughing and chilling out while all this is going down....
Yeah. nuff said.
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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The Apostle
The Black Priests
586
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Posted - 2011.10.20 05:43:00 -
[131] - Quote
Swooshie wrote:I just wanted to remind the OP, in the name of sound reasoning, that such as strong position based on strong convictions such as the ones he is displaying do, in fact, have a risk of being wrong despite their apparently undeniable logic at first glance.
One thing I have tried very carefully in this thread was to avoid terms like right and wrong, said as much in my last post.
In situations such as faced by CCP, what got them to here may have been wrong. The "fix" as it were may also be wrong. It may prove right but one thing remains quite clear and it's an ethos I have always lived by.
The wise use foresight to practise being foolish - The foolish use hindsight to practise being wise.
Put simply, we can all claim unlimited expertise in all things once the "writing is on the wall". Of course we can.
Someone came along and wrote it. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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shashe sin
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.10.20 06:12:00 -
[132] - Quote
lol, this thread lives on. No lock yet... :P |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
589
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Posted - 2011.10.20 06:14:00 -
[133] - Quote
shashe sin wrote:lol, this thread lives on. No lock yet... :P So true. Sitting here waiting for it to go.
Maybe it's 'cos I'm tryna be nice. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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Swooshie
USA Canada Private Corp
36
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Posted - 2011.10.20 06:26:00 -
[134] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:One thing I have tried very carefully in this thread was to avoid terms like right and wrong, said as much in my last post.
I'm sorry, I must have expressed myself wrongly. I didn't mean by wrong what CCP did now or in the past. I meant that the assumption that because someone did something nice in the past (like making an incredible PC game, for instance) shields them from harsh critics if one day they turn presumptuous, greedy or or complacent and, as a result, end up destroying that one nice thing they created.
As for respect for people, it SHOULD be a given, I always forget that forums are place where basic notions such as respecting other persons and separating acts and contentions from the persons are often forgotten. I don't remember seeing you at fault on that, ever.
AS for judging if the solutions are right or wrong, as I said, I can not know and will not pass anything other than mere thoughts since I have no knowledge to back any judgment. "It is when I think about meaning that I lose what I meant to say." -á-á-á -Swooshie |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
591
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Posted - 2011.10.20 06:26:00 -
[135] - Quote
Da Vinci Code wrote:Posting in a CCP Upper Management Alt Thread.
Da Vinci Code wrote:Why Doesn't CCP Upper Management take a 20% pay cut instead of firing those poor people before the holidays? Because we need to be paid properly to post in CCP Upper Management Alt Threads'.
duh. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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The Apostle
The Black Priests
591
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Posted - 2011.10.20 06:30:00 -
[136] - Quote
Swooshie wrote:The Apostle wrote:One thing I have tried very carefully in this thread was to avoid terms like right and wrong, said as much in my last post. I'm sorry, I must have expressed myself wrongly. I didn't mean by wrong what CCP did now or in the past. I meant that the assumption that because someone did something nice in the past (like making an incredible PC game, for instance) shields them from harsh critics if one day they turn presumptuous, greedy or or complacent and, as a result, end up destroying that one nice thing they created. As for respect for people, it SHOULD be a given, I always forget that forums are place where basic notions such as respecting other persons and separating acts and contentions from the persons are often forgotten. I don't remember seeing you at fault on that, ever. AS for judging if the solutions are right or wrong, as I said, I can not know and will not pass anything other than mere thoughts since I have no knowledge to back any judgment. Are you married?
I've revoked my vow of silence (as you can plainly see) I've revoked my vow of chastity (so I can **** with G&&ns) I've revoked my vow of poverty ( I got lots of iskies).
May as well get married. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
28
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Posted - 2011.10.20 06:49:00 -
[137] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:
Regardless, as an ex employer who has had to lay staff off, it is the hardest, most gut wrenching job you will ever possibly have to do. There will be some very, very sad senior management in CCP over the coming weeks and if you REALLY knew these things you wouldn't be so bloody thoughtless and insensitive.
Show some fn respect - to both the dismissed staff and to the people who have had to make the toughest call there is.
Blah blah blah....we are to feel sorry for the managers that just destroyed how many lives and families? What planet do you live on?
My ex-company wiped out 3000 people in one day, the same day the CEO was in Bangalore India announcing the company was doubling it's workforce to 40,000 there in 2 years.
Managers are slime. The higher you go in the company, the the worse they get. Sympathy for the people doing the firing....yeah right. I am sure they will sleep terribly as they get their paycheque, over and over, while all the people they turfed are ruined......
Upper management is of course immune to the disaster they have created. That is the way of business in most cases. There is a reason that the behaviour of a corporation has been equated to the behaviour of psychpaths by many studies. To advance in a large business you have to display said psychopathic behaviour.
Hilmar just proved he has joined that club, and you sound like you want a membership too. |
JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
1
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Posted - 2011.10.20 06:53:00 -
[138] - Quote
I already miss CCP Fallout, CCP Zymurgist, CCP Wrangler, and CCP Pann. :(
Horrible time of the year for anybody to be let go in all honesty. |
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CCP Spitfire
C C P C C P Alliance
264
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Posted - 2011.10.20 07:11:00 -
[139] - Quote
JC Anderson wrote:I already miss CCP Fallout, CCP Zymurgist, CCP Wrangler, and CCP Pann. :(
Horrible time of the year for anybody to be let go in all honesty.
We miss them too. However, please keep the discussion here.
*click* CCP Spitfire | Russian Community Coordinator @ccp_spitfire |
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