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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Wizie
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Posted - 2006.02.05 23:44:00 -
[1]
A month or more back Tuxford posted regarding the Typhoon getting a boost without going into details. A few weeks before that T0mb had posted regarding the Phoon getting looked at and getting some sort of Missile dmg bonus.
I post this because since that time we have not recieved any update on the matter. Also, I am against the idea of the phoon getting a missile bonus. Unless there is a major overhaul in its slot layout and hardpoint config.
Right now to be good, Minmatar have to be good at using turrets, shield tanks, armor tanks, drones AND missiles. Something I don't much fancy. To use a Phoon remotely well would then require good gunnery, good armor tanking, good missiles and good drones. Granted that at some point with specialisation in all those branches a Phoon would be deadly (depending on the type of missile boost we get). But how is that specialisation when you have to diversify what you specialise in to be remotely good.
I know others have an opinion on this too. So please go ahead and post what you think, while hoping/praying that the Devs are going to respond as well.
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Blind Man
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Posted - 2006.02.05 23:49:00 -
[2]
needs a role.
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AstroPhobic
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Posted - 2006.02.06 00:04:00 -
[3]
It does need a boost. The Combination of everything made it an all-around ship- and a poor one at that, IMO. Especially with the new missile overhaul, the 4 missile hardpoints are even less effective. The Tempest seems an all around better choice.
MC
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Twin blade
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Posted - 2006.02.06 00:26:00 -
[4]
The Typhoon is a mega mess of every thing in 1 the only real good point of the ship is the fact you can put a good armor tank on it but thats about all.
The Typhoon needs a AB bonus and 2 more gun slot's to be a good gun ship.
Or it need's 2 more missile slot's and give it 2 missile bonus so it can be used as a good missile ship.
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lollerskates
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Posted - 2006.02.06 01:37:00 -
[5]
the problem with the phoon is that BOTH bonuses only affect four of the weapons. with the type of projectile that benefits from it's optimal range bonus, you run out of grid fast and armor tanking is hard. perhaps give it the capability to use 5 launchers, and 5 turrets. boost it's grid a little too.
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Agnar Koladrov
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Posted - 2006.02.06 01:42:00 -
[6]
Originally by: lollerskates the problem with the phoon is that BOTH bonuses only affect four of the weapons. with the type of projectile that benefits from it's optimal range bonus, you run out of grid fast and armor tanking is hard. perhaps give it the capability to use 5 launchers, and 5 turrets. boost it's grid a little too.
But does the model allow a 5th gun hardpoint?
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lollerskates
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Posted - 2006.02.06 01:46:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Agnar Koladrov
But does the model allow a 5th gun hardpoint?
the real question is "would it be that hard to make a model for that 5th gun?". who cares what is done, but the typhoon really needs some kind of role, boost, whatever. it seems like it's the only ship that had no effort put into it's design, look at the description...
the DPS on a phoon is completely pathetic; here's an idea: just give it a rediculous base speed, like twice what it is now, that would allow for some really fun setups.
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Twin blade
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Posted - 2006.02.06 02:00:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Agnar Koladrov
Originally by: lollerskates the problem with the phoon is that BOTH bonuses only affect four of the weapons. with the type of projectile that benefits from it's optimal range bonus, you run out of grid fast and armor tanking is hard. perhaps give it the capability to use 5 launchers, and 5 turrets. boost it's grid a little too.
But does the model allow a 5th gun hardpoint?
I take it you have never a navy typhoon with 7 gun's on npc ship only.
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Brakkis
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Posted - 2006.02.06 04:10:00 -
[9]
Originally by: lollerskates
who cares what is done, but the typhoon really needs some kind of role, boost, whatever. it seems like it's the only ship that had no effort put into it's design, look at the description...
Yeah that's completely true.
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Lienzo
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Posted - 2006.02.06 04:45:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Lienzo on 06/02/2006 04:49:15 It does have the highest base speed and the smallest sig of any battleship. Kinda reminds me more of an overgrown Stabber than the Rupture.
If anything, a 7hards +1 utility slot layout with 5-6 turrets would be the most focused benefit it could recieve. It would need a drone bay nerf if the dps and ease of use was to rise vis a vis other tier 1 BS.
I wonder if it would be cool if the Scorp and Domi also got 2 utility slots each..
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.02.06 05:46:00 -
[11]
change optimal range to 5% bonus to missile lancher rof
THEN see of it needs further fixing
i like the idea of having a split system
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2006.02.06 06:11:00 -
[12]
I think increasing Phoon's base speed by about 100 would be a good idea. It's really not overpowering in any way
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2006.02.06 06:23:00 -
[13]
People who think a missle bonus is going to make it good arent thinking hard enough.
Because it has 4 missles and 4 guns it will still be like having only 1 bonus compared to most other ships.
Wherever you went - here you are.
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Aloysius Knight
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Posted - 2006.02.06 06:40:00 -
[14]
bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt try again adding that missile lancher rof bonus makes the phoon much more scaryer to face
*me runs off to find nautie boy so he can backzor me with with uber graphs
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.02.06 06:55:00 -
[15]
my 0.02 isk: give phoon 6 launchers and 5% rof bonus. Then i want to see some caldari cry.
I use no guns... i smack to death. |
Helga RedHair
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Posted - 2006.02.06 07:38:00 -
[16]
Quote: give phoon 6 launchers and 5% rof bonus. Then I want to see some caldari cry.
The above is just the most recent of several similar posts in the same vein. The trouble with this notion, is it just leads to the Phoon becoming the "Matari Raven".
What the Typhoon really needs is a unique role of its own. I propose the following:
1) Pull the silly bonus to large turret optimal range.
2) Drop one high slot. Keep 4 each turret and launcher hardpoints.
3) Drop mineral requirements, making the ship substantially cheaper to build.
4) Drop sig radius a bit more.
5) Redefine the existing bonus to large projectile firing speed to: 7.5% bonus to Large Autocannon and Cruise Missle firing speed per level.
6) Add a speed bonus: 5% bonus to maximum velocity per level.
7) Playtest and retweak grid, cpu, cap, armor, shields, base velocity.
The result? The Typhoon now becomes the game's pocket battleship. (Google "Graf Spee" if you don't understand the reference to pocket battleships.) Fast, small, inexpensive and hard hitting, with relatively short range weopons compared to other battleships. Its effectiveness aimed more at killing cruisers, battlecruisers, and HACs than other battleships.
Anybody else think this sounds cool? |
Shivar 'Ptah
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Posted - 2006.02.06 08:03:00 -
[17]
well no,
but you just figured out what Battlecruisers are suppose to be :p
i can tell you now, that aint happening, the only thing i see is the missile ROF change, which will actually make the phoon quite good. at least usefull anyway.
it would give it a role in short range terror aswell :p
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Helga RedHair
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Posted - 2006.02.06 08:42:00 -
[18]
Quote: well no, but you just figured out what Battlecruisers are suppose to be :p
I hear what you are saying. But I just hate for the Typhoon to become the Matari mini-Raven. It just doesn't seem unique enough, and will always seem second best to the actual Raven.
Your phrase "supposed to be" pretty much agrees with me that Battlecruisers do NOT fulfill the role I am proposing.
BTW, historically, battlecruisers and pocket battleships aren't really the same thing (Google HMS Hood). Actually what I am proposing makes the Typhoon more like historical battlecruisers, with the game's battlecruisers more like historical pocket battleships. (And HACS are like nothing that ever occured historically; small, fast, lightly armed battleships with thicker armor (better resistances) than normal battleships).
The point is a ship that has near HAC speed; defenses actually better than battleships to some weopons (torpedoes especially) due to low sig radius, but weaker to lighter cruiser size weopons; a hull smaller than ordinary battleships but carrying a limited number of battleship size guns.
This is not the same as a battlecruiser at all. BCs can't effectively mount large autocannon. I am not so sure about cruise missles, I am not that familiar with heavier missle ships. The historical pocket battleships mounted guns much larger than ordinary ships of their size (Graf Spee was basically a large cruiser with 6 11" guns, other large cruisers of the era, including the later [and larger] Prinz Eugen class, mounted 8-10 8" guns, oversize guns for its size is the element that led me to call my concept a "pocket battleship". |
Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.02.06 08:49:00 -
[19]
This is very simple.
Phoon should STAY split weapons to keep its flavour
Phoon needs better grid, and more CPU if it's to fit a full rack of weapons when it needs to mount 4 AC + 4 siege. Phoon needs a missile bonus. 7.5% RoF works best. Range bonus obviously drops for this.
There you have it, a good ship, still with the same theme as the original.
The Eve Guild Wars Project! |
Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.02.06 09:02:00 -
[20]
I dunno i tend to agree that split bonus ships plain suck...The phoon will change ,and then we will all go 4 NOS + 4 torps .
Wait a second it sounds good :)
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2006.02.06 09:38:00 -
[21]
ever ship that has splitted bonuses should get "dual bonuses"
dont remember the 'phoons bonus becouse im not ingame. but this is what i have in mind
10% optimal range | 10% missile speed 5% projectile rof | 5% missile rof
i dont think dual bonus will make it overpowered as all ships with two different bonuses already suck.
"We brake for nobody"
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.02.06 10:35:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock ever ship that has splitted bonuses should get "dual bonuses"
dont remember the 'phoons bonus becouse im not ingame. but this is what i have in mind
10% optimal range | 10% missile speed 5% projectile rof | 5% missile rof
i dont think dual bonus will make it overpowered as all ships with two different bonuses already suck.
Well but in that case they must change the high slot layout or else we would be crippled with only four missile slots.
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Urundal
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Posted - 2006.02.06 11:08:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Urundal on 06/02/2006 11:10:25
Phoon already has a defined role , and its very good at that :
the uberpwnage of anything smalller then another battleship. phoon can fit three nos, one neut, a mwd and with the passive resistance skills can get a 82/68/72/78 or something tank on 9000 armour. Sure it has crappy DPS that way, but its an excellent ship in the role of killing HACS and inty packs.
If you want to make that role more defined, give it a drone bonus , a speed bonus, or maybe a slight webber bonus.
Don't make it into the minmatar 's raven, please.
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.02.06 11:11:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Pesadel0 on 06/02/2006 11:12:06
Originally by: Urundal Edited by: Urundal on 06/02/2006 11:10:25
Phoon already has a defined role , and its very good at that :
the uberpwnage of anything smalller then another battleship. phoon can fit three nos, one neut, a mwd and with the passive resistance skills can get a 82/68/72/78 or something tank on 9000 armour. Sure it has crappy DPS that way, but its an excellent ship in the role of killing HACS and inty packs.
If you want to make that role more defined, give it a drone bonus , a speed bonus, or maybe a slight webber bonus.
Don't make it into the minmatar 's raven, please.
Erm any Tier1 BS can do that better than the phoon :|
Edit: But it has its advantages ,like you are never ever called primary :)
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Marcus Alkhaar
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Posted - 2006.02.06 11:16:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock ever ship that has splitted bonuses should get "dual bonuses"
dont remember the 'phoons bonus becouse im not ingame. but this is what i have in mind
10% optimal range | 10% missile speed 5% projectile rof | 5% missile rof
i dont think dual bonus will make it overpowered as all ships with two different bonuses already suck.
Those 2 missiles bonuses are belonging to the Raven!
Now, what I Like to see on the Typhoon is to keep the 5% Projectile RoF Bonus and get the 10% optimal Range bonus changed to 5% Damage dealt with Torps/cruise (Raven still got the RoF which deal more damage and got +2 missile slots) This way the Typhoon will niether be a Raven OR a new tempest (Again, People want it to use 1 type of guns, because then they dont have to use they brain capacity on fitting a good setup) Now, with Those 2 Bonuses, it should be able to fit torps + small BS AC or Cruise + big BS AC, If I am right, I dont fly the God Damn ship
the low slots fit for 3x BCU II, 3x Gyro (no HUGE penalty), this way it should be able to deal MORE damage! Me Thinks
EDIT: the 10% optimal bonus = Caldari Tier 3 BS Bonus EDIT EDIT: I hope the Devs read this post (who is it that change those bonuses anyway?)
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Kheo Sen
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Posted - 2006.02.06 11:24:00 -
[26]
How i would like to see the phoon:
A boost to armor and lower shilds, some more Cpu and grid. Bonus to armor rep per level 5% or 7.5% (like the brutix) and bonus to NOS and neut or bonus to launchers ROF.
My 0.1 ISK's
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2006.02.06 11:27:00 -
[27]
How about the rof bonus changed to speed/sig rad per level and given an extra two turret hardpoints. Simple change but effective without making to overpowered, it is a minmattar ship after all
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MachZERO
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Posted - 2006.02.06 11:52:00 -
[28]
I normally avoid these topics but this one does warrant some merrit. Can't help but agree.. The Phoon simply has the 'Jack of all trades' thing down so well that it simply lacks a well defined role.
Let's Compare it to the other Teir 1 BS's:
Armageddon: Great armor tank. Excellent at up close Ganking.
Scorpion: THE ECM god-ship of eve.
Dominix: Drones anyone? lol... oh yea.. and can carry a decent tank.
This leaves the phoon stuck in the median of mediocrity. It can armor tank, but nowhere near what the geddon can. It can carry alot of drones but doesn't really compare to the Domi. And you'd have to be insane to try to fit any ECM onto a phoon. I'm only using the above examples to show that the other teir 1 BS's actually have a "role" that they fit into rather nicely while the phoon is a bit lacking in the role department.
You can look at every battleship in eve and easily come up with several different things that it can do better than all the others... The phoon on the other hand... I'm still thinking... -------------------------------------- "All that is, Ever was, Will be ever, Twisting, Turning, Through the never" --------------------------------------
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Nifel
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Posted - 2006.02.06 11:55:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Testy Mctest This is very simple.
Phoon should STAY split weapons to keep its flavour
Phoon needs better grid, and more CPU if it's to fit a full rack of weapons when it needs to mount 4 AC + 4 siege. Phoon needs a missile bonus. 7.5% RoF works best. Range bonus obviously drops for this.
There you have it, a good ship, still with the same theme as the original.
Should have 6/6 hardpoints for both launchers and turrets. Would make it a lot more interesting ship since the bonuses would be split between them anyway.
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago." RKK Ranking: (MIN13) Jata |
Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.02.06 12:23:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Nifel
Originally by: Testy Mctest This is very simple.
Phoon should STAY split weapons to keep its flavour
Phoon needs better grid, and more CPU if it's to fit a full rack of weapons when it needs to mount 4 AC + 4 siege. Phoon needs a missile bonus. 7.5% RoF works best. Range bonus obviously drops for this.
There you have it, a good ship, still with the same theme as the original.
Should have 6/6 hardpoints for both launchers and turrets. Would make it a lot more interesting ship since the bonuses would be split between them anyway.
And also overpowered by being too flexible.
Remember, if you want Devs to listen, you have to think from a balanced point of view. 6/6 is not balanced.
The Eve Guild Wars Project! |
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