Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18] [18]:: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
747
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 15:56:00 -
[511] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote: In order to trigger any automation (muliple key strokes) you must do something 'manually'. No automation at all can take place unless physically someone does something, therefore the entire process is manual not automated
yes. This is partially definition of automation. It does not require AI or imply complete autonomous operation at all. Someone presses a button and a machine starts a complex or at least some operation, like iterating through number of eve clients and feeding them your input because you are too lazy or too convenient to do it by yourself. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2746
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 15:58:00 -
[512] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:no, actually its the other way around, its automation implemented by key broadcast. Focus on the idea and purpose not the technical detail or method used for realization. Exactly as penetrating and deformation of issue from my desert eagle example isnt synonym for killing someone, the other way around its the exact method employed for this certain purpose. No, it's not. It's just a dumb broadcast. There is no automation.
Robert Caldera wrote:it is what it is, you want to steer a fleet of alts by maintaining control over 1 client. In other words, you want your alts running with you without directly steering them, this is a form of automation. No, it's not. I do have to control them. The fact that I control them with a single input device doesn't make it automation. Every single thing they do I have to tell them to do.
Robert Caldera wrote:perhaps you are right and I wont change anything but I still will voice my opinion over the matter. U mad? Why would I be mad? I'm not the teary eyed one raging out against CCPs decisions. You can voice your opinion wherever and however you want. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
747
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 16:02:00 -
[513] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:No, it's not. It's just a dumb broadcast. There is no automation. yep, there is.
Lucas Kell wrote:No, it's not. I do have to control them. The fact that I control them with a single input device doesn't make it automation. Every single thing they do I have to tell them to do. no you dont. Isbox thing reads your input and feeds it forward. You are not interacting with all those clients.
Lucas Kell wrote:]Why would I be mad? I'm not the teary eyed one raging out against CCPs decisions. You can voice your opinion wherever and however you want. good. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2746
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 16:05:00 -
[514] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:does it neccessarily need to? A bot is a piece of software which performs tasks without direct user interaction. Like isboxed client is doing things with no direct human interaction, why I consider them bots. But it does take direct user interaction. No task is performed without the user interacting.
Robert Caldera wrote:if it doesnt reduce any compexity why would someone use it? Your fallacy is obvious. They in fact reduce complexity, namely to replicate the input across 20 clients manually and fcking up eventually or not even being able to manage it at all without automation tools. Actually, you're more likely to mess up with ISboxer running, since it's a dumb broadcaster, not automation. It doesn't make any judgement about whether anything is in the right state, it just does exactly what you tell it to do, when you tell it, quite literally.
The main benefit of it is performance management. It reduces the CPU load by reducing the framerate of background clients and managing their CPU distribution in a better way than windows does. It then hastens the alt-tab since it continue to render when inactive and gives you thumbnail views of the other clients ready to click on. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
ImYourMom
Republic University Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 16:05:00 -
[515] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:ImYourMom wrote: In order to trigger any automation (muliple key strokes) you must do something 'manually'. No automation at all can take place unless physically someone does something, therefore the entire process is manual not automated
yes. This is partially definition of automation. It does not require AI or imply complete autonomous operation at all. Someone presses a button and a machine starts a complex or at least some operation, like iterating through number of eve clients and feeding them your input because you are too lazy or too convenient to do it by yourself.
Ok seriously now, do you honestly think it is reasonable to ask a person who is paying their subscription for say 10 accounts should have to use 10 screens, 10 keyboards, 10 mice? really?
Thats not reasonable is it. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2746
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 16:10:00 -
[516] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:yep, there is. You really need to learn the actual meaning of that word in the technical sense.
Robert Caldera wrote:no you dont. Isbox thing reads your input and feeds it forward. You are not interacting with all those clients. No, I'm interacting with my controller which dumb broadcasts what I do to my destination applications. Broadcast != Automate.
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
747
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 16:15:00 -
[517] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:But it does take direct user interaction. No task is performed without the user interacting. no there is isbox inbetween. isboxed client has no direct interaction with the user.
Lucas Kell wrote:Actually, you're more likely to mess up with ISboxer running, since it's a dumb broadcaster, not automation. It doesn't make any judgement about whether anything is in the right state, it just does exactly what you tell it to do, when you tell it, quite literally. bots mess up too, so? Apparently people figured out how to setup isboxer for it to work properly, otherwise they wouldnt do it, right?
Lucas Kell wrote: The main benefit of it is performance management. It reduces the CPU load by reducing the framerate of background clients and managing their CPU distribution in a better way than windows does. It then hastens the alt-tab since it continue to render when inactive and gives you thumbnail views of the other clients ready to click on.
no its a lie and you know it yourself. Main benefit is not controlling all 20 clients manually, because this would render many scenarios unrealistic and unmanagable.
ImYourMom wrote:Ok seriously now, do you honestly think it is reasonable to ask a person who is paying their subscription for say 10 accounts should have to use 10 screens, 10 keyboards, 10 mice? really?
Thats not reasonable is it. you dont need multiple screens or mices for manual multiboxing. however you shouldnt be able to control a fleet of alts with just 1 client.
|
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
747
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 16:17:00 -
[518] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:You really need to learn the actual meaning of that word in the technical sense. I know the meaning very well.
Lucas Kell wrote:No, I'm interacting with my controller which dumb broadcasts what I do to my destination applications. Broadcast != Automate. you control 1 eve client, some software reads your input and feeds it forward to another 10 clients which are basically detached from your physical control in the moment as they receive their input from some piece of tool which sits between them and you. This is why you need and use it, its whole intention and purpose. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2746
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 16:21:00 -
[519] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:But it does take direct user interaction. No task is performed without the user interacting. no there is isbox inbetween. isboxed client has no direct interaction with the user. Lucas Kell wrote:Actually, you're more likely to mess up with ISboxer running, since it's a dumb broadcaster, not automation. It doesn't make any judgement about whether anything is in the right state, it just does exactly what you tell it to do, when you tell it, quite literally. bots mess up too, so? Apparently people figured out how to setup isboxer for it to work properly, otherwise they wouldnt do it, right? Lucas Kell wrote: The main benefit of it is performance management. It reduces the CPU load by reducing the framerate of background clients and managing their CPU distribution in a better way than windows does. It then hastens the alt-tab since it continue to render when inactive and gives you thumbnail views of the other clients ready to click on.
no its a lie and you know it yourself. Main benefit is not controlling all 20 clients manually, because this would render many scenarios unrealistic and unmanagable. ImYourMom wrote:Ok seriously now, do you honestly think it is reasonable to ask a person who is paying their subscription for say 10 accounts should have to use 10 screens, 10 keyboards, 10 mice? really?
Thats not reasonable is it. you dont need multiple screens or mices for manual multiboxing. however you shouldnt be able to control a fleet of alts with just 1 client. Is there any point continuing to argue with you? You clearly have no knowledge of automation in general or ISBoxer specifically, and no matter what anyone says, it's all "LIES!" right? Tinfoil hattery at it's best.
I'm gonna be the bigger man here and walk away. Continue to believe whatever you want to believe. I'll continue to live in the real world where what you say isn't automatically right just because you say it. One day you'll grow up and realise that. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
ImYourMom
Republic University Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 16:24:00 -
[520] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:But it does take direct user interaction. No task is performed without the user interacting. no there is isbox inbetween. isboxed client has no direct interaction with the user. Lucas Kell wrote:Actually, you're more likely to mess up with ISboxer running, since it's a dumb broadcaster, not automation. It doesn't make any judgement about whether anything is in the right state, it just does exactly what you tell it to do, when you tell it, quite literally. bots mess up too, so? Apparently people figured out how to setup isboxer for it to work properly, otherwise they wouldnt do it, right? Lucas Kell wrote: The main benefit of it is performance management. It reduces the CPU load by reducing the framerate of background clients and managing their CPU distribution in a better way than windows does. It then hastens the alt-tab since it continue to render when inactive and gives you thumbnail views of the other clients ready to click on.
no its a lie and you know it yourself. Main benefit is not controlling all 20 clients manually, because this would render many scenarios unrealistic and unmanagable. ImYourMom wrote:Ok seriously now, do you honestly think it is reasonable to ask a person who is paying their subscription for say 10 accounts should have to use 10 screens, 10 keyboards, 10 mice? really?
Thats not reasonable is it. you dont need multiple screens or mices for manual multiboxing. however you shouldnt be able to control a fleet of alts with just 1 client.
There you go you have just said it yourself, you shouldnt need to use multiple screens or mice (not mices!) thats exactly what IsBoxer does!
Otherwise how else are they going to do it? You can only get devices that allow you to plug in a keyboard and mice that control multiple machines, but you have to swich screens.
Please explain then how else can someone control 10 accounts at once? |
|
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
747
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 16:33:00 -
[521] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:[I'm gonna be the bigger man here and walk away. Continue to believe whatever you want to believe. I'll continue to live in the real world where what you say isn't automatically right just because you say it. One day you'll grow up and realise that. good bye
ImYourMom wrote:
There you go you have just said it yourself, you shouldnt need to use multiple screens or mice (not mices!) thats exactly what IsBoxer does!
Otherwise how else are they going to do it? You can only get devices that allow you to plug in a keyboard and mice that control multiple machines, but you have to swich screens.
Please explain then how else can someone control 10 accounts at once?
I never stated you should not need. I stated "you dont need". ever heard of alt tabbing? you can run 10 clients with just 1 screen 1 mouse and 1 keyboard perfectly fine. More screens ofc have advantage, I got 3 screens setup for example. If you like isboxer for the mere purpose of managing screens, its fine too. What is not fine is input broadcast since it implements automation and allows you to control a fleet of alts simultanously, which you wouldnt even be able to do with 10 screens alone, simply because handling that would exceed human capabilities - this is why people use it in first line. No 3rd party tool or method should be allowed to maintain uberhuman gameplay by automating. Sadly, they are allowed, for money and revenue, despite EULA hypocritically saying otherwise. |
ImYourMom
Republic University Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 16:48:00 -
[522] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:[I'm gonna be the bigger man here and walk away. Continue to believe whatever you want to believe. I'll continue to live in the real world where what you say isn't automatically right just because you say it. One day you'll grow up and realise that. good bye ImYourMom wrote:
There you go you have just said it yourself, you shouldnt need to use multiple screens or mice (not mices!) thats exactly what IsBoxer does!
Otherwise how else are they going to do it? You can only get devices that allow you to plug in a keyboard and mice that control multiple machines, but you have to swich screens.
Please explain then how else can someone control 10 accounts at once?
I never stated you should not need. I stated "you dont need". ever heard of alt tabbing? you can run 10 clients with just 1 screen 1 mouse and 1 keyboard perfectly fine. More screens ofc have advantage, I got 3 screens setup for example. If you like isboxer for the mere purpose of managing screens, its fine too. What is not fine is input broadcast since it implements automation and allows you to control a fleet of alts simultanously, which you wouldnt even be able to do with 10 screens alone, simply because handling that would exceed human capabilities - this is why people use it in first line. No 3rd party tool or method should be allowed to maintain uberhuman gameplay by automating. Sadly, they are allowed, for money and revenue, despite EULA hypocritically saying otherwise.
Alt tabbing ?? are you absolutely mental? have you even tried it? doing it with 2 clients is a pain, try doing it with 10! jesus really.
You would also need a super computer to run 10 clients on one machine. I have to stop responding to our posts now because your thinking is just way off the scale |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10577
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 16:49:00 -
[523] - Quote
What automation?
It wont do a thing without a human at a keyboard. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
747
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 16:52:00 -
[524] - Quote
ImYourMom wrote: Alt tabbing ?? are you absolutely mental? have you even tried it? doing it with 2 clients is a pain, try doing it with 10! jesus really.
You would also need a super computer to run 10 clients on one machine. I have to stop responding to our posts now because your thinking is just way off the scale
well, if your machine cant handle 10 clients or alt tabbing is too much of a hassle for you or you got only 1 screen - then you shouldnt be able to do that, rather than allowing input broadcasting tools in order to allow this kind of gameplay which itself is far beyond human capabilities. Its like with aimbots too, you might complain that your aiming is slow and you want an aimbot or wallhack, you get banned once you're caught. Noone asks you to play 10 chars in same time, does someone? |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2356
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 17:10:00 -
[525] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:this is why I called it "form of bot" not just "bot". You called it "form of bot" because you know that its not a bot, but are determined to call it such despite any and all reason.
Robert Caldera wrote:Batelle wrote: A helper bot is a bot controlling the client and makes decisions based on interpreting game data, an isboxered helper does not interpret game data, does not make decisions, and is directly controlled by the player.
does it neccessarily need to? A bot is a piece of software which performs tasks without direct user interaction. Like isboxed client is doing things with no direct human interaction, why I consider them bots. YES it needs to. That's what makes it a bot! An isboxed client cannot and does not do anything without human interaction.
Robert Caldera wrote: if it doesnt reduce any compexity why would someone use it? Your fallacy is obvious. They in fact reduce complexity, namely to replicate the input across 20 clients manually and fcking up eventually or not even being able to manage it at all without automation tools.
Now you're attacking the definition of "complexity." Complexity is not the same as number of clicks. ISboxer reduces the number of clicks without reducing the complexity of managing the clients (because nothing is automated). The complexity reduction comes by using identical UIs and particular ship setups. You specifically said you want multiboxers to have to repeat their clicks. CCP disagrees with you, and in their justification uses words like "complexity," "bot," and "automation." The fact that you disagree with this reasoning does not give you license to hack apart the English language in a silly attempt to prove CCP wrong about their own opinion. Go buy a ******* dictionary. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
|
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2928
|
Posted - 2014.03.25 17:29:00 -
[526] - Quote
As cleaning the thread will reduce its' page count drastically, and the same arguments are being made with no new content being brought up, I will be closing this thread. Thank you. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18] [18]:: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |