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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Nar' alk Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2014.05.15 22:51:00 -
[361] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nar' alk Breau wrote:I would have to disagree. For 10 + years eve has used time based training for skills. This isn't about skill training. This is about skill alterations and what kind of assurances you're being given when that happens. This is merely a statement to emphasize the importance of time in eve. The key principle is that you keep what you had, and if you get more in the process then hey, good for you. Only if the ability you trained for is outright removed do you get the time back (which is rarely needed since you often end up with more than you trained for). It is one of the key principals. No the key principal. Quote:If you reduce the significance of time in eve, the game would fall apart. Considering how many times (and at what scale) it has already happened, apparently not. The game didn't fall apart with the Destroyer and Battlecruiser changes, or with the hull progression alterations, and compared to those, this change to make the drone skills make sense is a rounding error.
Metaphorically speaking. |
Riyria Twinpeaks
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
1925
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 22:53:00 -
[362] - Quote
Walter Hart White wrote:[...]
What do YOU not get? If we get 512k reimbursement, then the give out would be equal. SDO V guys earn 512k+256k skill points after change. People with CDO V and SDO V get only 256k skill points. Does that seem fair to you? No. It shouldnt. That's why you refund 512k and both parties have gained 256k+512k skill points total. Everyone is happy. Except you I guess?
Giving people who have trained CDO V an additional 512k SP would make it even more unfair to new players who have to train the skills after the change. So you're just selfish. You don't care if other people are at a bigger disadvantage as long as you get your more SP. |
Marsha Mallow
560
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 22:54:00 -
[363] - Quote
Nar' alk Breau wrote:Shhh... The adults are talking.
CCP Fozzie wrote:Jane Shapperd wrote:So what about those who trained both skills Combat Drone Operation & Scout Drone Operation to 5
will they be compensated for training combat drone operation ?
as if they didn't train combat drone operation to 5 , they will get both new skills to level 5 Nope, because there's nothing to be compensated for.If you have either Combat Drone Operation or Scout Drone Operation (or both) trained to level 5 you get the maximum possible ranks of the new skills.
Bedtime.
Stop arguing in circles or sack up and challenge the Devs until they concede the point. The rest is just debate/perspective and nothing is final until the patch hits anyway. TO THE RIPARDMOBILE! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21743
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 22:56:00 -
[364] - Quote
Nar' alk Breau wrote:This is merely a statement to emphasize the importance of time in eve. That just makes it completely irrelevant.
Quote:It is one of the key principals. No the key principal. No, it's pretty much the key principle, considering how consistently it has been applied now.
Quote:Metaphorically speaking. It wouldn't fall apart metaphorically either. Perhaps you meant GÇ£hysterically hyperbolicallyGÇ¥ (i.e. not at all, but that won't stop people from ignorantly saying that it will)?
Really, Riyria got it right in one: this is just people being selfish. They're crying about how GÇ£unfairGÇ¥ it is that some people are being given more than they are, without even commenting on the unfairness that they are themselves being given more than some, and their GÇ£solutionGÇ¥ is to increase that particular unfairnessGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
beakerax
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 23:02:00 -
[365] - Quote
Tippia wrote:beakerax wrote:I wonder if the post that kicked off this bizarre discussion specifically mentioned it was people without Battlecruisers V or without Command Ships at the time of the patch who got the short shrift. Doesn't particularly matter. The point is that Command Ships was never a factor to begin with. No particular advantage was given to GÇ£older players (say, those with Command Ships trained)GÇ¥, and command ships were not in any way grandfathered in. Earlier you agreed that players who were able to train Command Ships I pre-patch were potentially able to fly ships post-patch that they had never skilled for (how is that not an advantage?), and having Battlecruisers V completed before the patch was also clearly advantageous.
You can argue that there was no better way to go about performing the change if want, but those two things definitely happened. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21743
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 23:03:00 -
[366] - Quote
beakerax wrote:Earlier you agreed that players who were able to train Command Ships I pre-patch were potentially able to fly ships post-patch that they had never skilled for (how is that not an advantage?), and having Battlecruisers V completed before the patch was also clearly advantageous.
You can argue that there was no better way to go about performing the change if want, but those two things definitely happened. GǪand?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Nar' alk Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 23:04:00 -
[367] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nar' alk Breau wrote:This is merely a statement to emphasize the importance of time in eve. That just makes it completely irrelevant. Quote:It is one of the key principals. No the key principal. No, it's pretty much the key principle, considering how consistently it has been applied now. Quote:Metaphorically speaking. It wouldn't fall apart metaphorically either. Perhaps you meant GÇ£hysterically hyperbolicallyGÇ¥ (i.e. not at all, but that won't stop people from ignorantly saying that it will)?
Tippia, nitpicking apart my forum etiquette is irrelevant. Time is one of the core elements of eve. Regardless of how consistently "keeping what you had" has been applied or equipment change, even more so, time has been a major factor. Metaphorically was correct. Obviously the game wouldn't complete derail but on the other hand if changed enough items in eve from a time perspective, who knows what would happen.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21744
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 23:09:00 -
[368] - Quote
Nar' alk Breau wrote:Time is one of the core elements of eve. GǪand that's why you never lose any in these changes: since the GÇ£if you could use itGÇ¥ principle is in effect. Only if there is no possibility at all to keep what you had GÇö if the fundamental mechanic behind a skill is removed, for instance GÇö do you get that time back in the form of freely distributable SP.
But the corollary to that is still that, if you end up with more than you had, then good for you. Free time from CCP GÇö yay! GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Nar' alk Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 23:10:00 -
[369] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Nar' alk Breau wrote:Shhh... The adults are talking. CCP Fozzie wrote:Jane Shapperd wrote:So what about those who trained both skills Combat Drone Operation & Scout Drone Operation to 5
will they be compensated for training combat drone operation ?
as if they didn't train combat drone operation to 5 , they will get both new skills to level 5 Nope, because there's nothing to be compensated for.If you have either Combat Drone Operation or Scout Drone Operation (or both) trained to level 5 you get the maximum possible ranks of the new skills. Bedtime. Stop arguing in circles or sack up and challenge the Devs until they concede the point. The rest is just debate/perspective and nothing is final until the patch hits anyway.
Debating in the forums is one way for the Devs to see the different points that people have to offer. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
751
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 23:11:00 -
[370] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Nar' alk Breau wrote:Shhh... The adults are talking. CCP Fozzie wrote:Jane Shapperd wrote:So what about those who trained both skills Combat Drone Operation & Scout Drone Operation to 5
will they be compensated for training combat drone operation ?
as if they didn't train combat drone operation to 5 , they will get both new skills to level 5 Nope, because there's nothing to be compensated for.If you have either Combat Drone Operation or Scout Drone Operation (or both) trained to level 5 you get the maximum possible ranks of the new skills. Bedtime. Stop arguing in circles or sack up and challenge the Devs until they concede the point. The rest is just debate/perspective and nothing is final until the patch hits anyway.
+1
The interesting thing here is how many people see SP as some sort of competition that you can "win" .
I also suspect part of the problem is the free SP given away in the past. The 10 million or so free SP you could feasibly pick up in the destroyer/battlecruiser rebalance almost doubled some newer players effective SP and seems to have created large expectations. That is despite the fact that people had the same effective in-game abilities and access after the rebalance as before. |
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Nar' alk Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 23:20:00 -
[371] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nar' alk Breau wrote:Time is one of the core elements of eve. GǪand that's why you never lose any in these changes: since the GÇ£if you could use itGÇ¥ principle is in effect. Only if there is no possibility at all to keep what you had GÇö if the fundamental mechanic behind a skill is removed, for instance GÇö do you get that time back in the form of freely distributable SP. But the corollary to that is still that, if you end up with more than you had, then good for you. Free time from CCP GÇö yay!
I'm not debating any loss. I'm debating the merit of awarding the same skill points to party A who has less time invested than party B. Skill points equate to time as far as training in eve is concerned.
It's not that I don't see where you're coming from. "We're all getting more than we had before". But if CCP were to give everyone 200m skill points tomorrow, then everyone would be ahead. Someone already has 200m skill points? Ok, let's make it 500m skill points. Why would people be mad? They all have more than they had before. It's because the other people got there without investing the time.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21745
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 23:23:00 -
[372] - Quote
Nar' alk Breau wrote:I'm debating the merit of awarding the same skill points to party A who has less time invested than party B. Skill points equate to time as far as training in eve is concerned. The merit is obvious: no-one loses what they have trained for.
Quote:But if CCP were to give everyone 200m skill points tomorrow GǪthen they would have to present a very good reason for it, like they have in this case. As it is, no change short of removing skills altogether would warrant that kind of hand-out (and would, as a bonus, render the hand-out pointless).
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
beakerax
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 23:31:00 -
[373] - Quote
And nothing, really. As far as I can tell, this Command Ships thing as been an irrelevant exercise in pedantry.
ggGD |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
752
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 23:32:00 -
[374] - Quote
Nar' alk Breau wrote:Tippia wrote:Nar' alk Breau wrote:Time is one of the core elements of eve. GǪand that's why you never lose any in these changes: since the GÇ£if you could use itGÇ¥ principle is in effect. Only if there is no possibility at all to keep what you had GÇö if the fundamental mechanic behind a skill is removed, for instance GÇö do you get that time back in the form of freely distributable SP. But the corollary to that is still that, if you end up with more than you had, then good for you. Free time from CCP GÇö yay! I'm not debating any loss. I'm debating the merit of awarding the same skill points to party A who has less time invested than party B. Skill points equate to time as far as training in eve is concerned. It's not that I don't see where you're coming from. "We're all getting more than we had before". But if CCP were to give everyone 200m skill points tomorrow, then everyone would be ahead. Someone already has 200m skill points? Ok, let's make it 500m skill points. Why would people be mad? They all have more than they had before. It's because the other people got there without investing the time.
But time is not an issue in Eve. It takes 18 years or more to get close to all skill so no one single character can ever "win" an SP race. Specialist alt characters are almost essential, the player with a single character that trains everything forever is seriously disadvantaged. Which is why the game provides you with two free alts on your main account.
There is also the character bazaar that lets you buy a character with considerably more SP than your current one. If you really want to race ahead in SP just build a character that specialises in making ISK and then buy yourself the pretrained advanced character you want.
Unlike other games there is no "street cred" for high SP. |
Nar' alk Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 23:32:00 -
[375] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nar' alk Breau wrote:I'm debating the merit of awarding the same skill points to party A who has less time invested than party B. Skill points equate to time as far as training in eve is concerned. The merit is obvious: no-one loses what they have trained for. Quote:But if CCP were to give everyone 200m skill points tomorrow GǪthen they would have to present a very good reason for it, like they have in this case. As it is, no change short of removing skills altogether would warrant that kind of hand-out (and would, as a bonus, render the hand-out pointless).
I'm pretty sure that if something like that happened there would be a LOT of people who would find no reason good enough. As it stands now, this reason is good enough because the amount of skill points involved isn't 200m. |
Nar' alk Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 23:42:00 -
[376] - Quote
Riyria Twinpeaks wrote:Walter Hart White wrote:[...]
What do YOU not get? If we get 512k reimbursement, then the give out would be equal. SDO V guys earn 512k+256k skill points after change. People with CDO V and SDO V get only 256k skill points. Does that seem fair to you? No. It shouldnt. That's why you refund 512k and both parties have gained 256k+512k skill points total. Everyone is happy. Except you I guess? Giving people who have trained CDO V an additional 512k SP would make it even more unfair to new players who have to train the skills after the change. So you're just selfish. You don't care if other people are at a bigger disadvantage as long as you get your more SP.
Not selfish at all. If you're talking about existing new players, they can start training the skills now and get the relevant points back. If you're talking about future players who don't even have an account, that's over reaching. Prior to me joining the game, I don't begrudge anyone who got free ships or otherwise, because I didn't have a subscription. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21745
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 23:52:00 -
[377] - Quote
Nar' alk Breau wrote:Not selfish at all. If you're talking about existing new players, they can start training the skills now and get the relevant points back. You're assuming that they want the skills, which they obviously aren't since they aren't training them. So they'd just end up with the exact same 512k SP they would have gotten anyway.
No, it's entirely selfish. They want more SP because someone else is getting more SP than they do. The fact that they get more SP as well is already unfair by the same standard. If they got even more, that's just more unfair, but that doesn't bother them, now does it? It's only when it's GÇ£unfairGÇ¥ to them that a GÇ£reimbursementGÇ¥ (read: additional free hand-out) is in order.
It really doesn't get any more selfish than that: GÇ£someone else got more so I deserve more and screw everyone elseGÇ¥. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Nar' alk Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 23:53:00 -
[378] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Nar' alk Breau wrote:Tippia wrote:Nar' alk Breau wrote:Time is one of the core elements of eve. GǪand that's why you never lose any in these changes: since the GÇ£if you could use itGÇ¥ principle is in effect. Only if there is no possibility at all to keep what you had GÇö if the fundamental mechanic behind a skill is removed, for instance GÇö do you get that time back in the form of freely distributable SP. But the corollary to that is still that, if you end up with more than you had, then good for you. Free time from CCP GÇö yay! I'm not debating any loss. I'm debating the merit of awarding the same skills points to party A who has less time invested than party B. Skill points equate to time as far as training in eve is concerned. It's not that I don't see where you're coming from. "We're all getting more than we had before". But if CCP were to give everyone 200m skill points tomorrow, then everyone would be ahead. Someone already has 200m skill points? Ok, let's make it 500m skill points. Why would people be mad? They all have more than they had before. It's because the other people got there without investing the time. But time is not an issue in Eve. It takes 18 years or more to get close to all skills so no one single character can ever "win" an SP race. Specialist alt characters are almost essential, the player with a single character that trains everything forever is seriously disadvantaged. Which is why the game provides you with two free alts on your main account. There is also the character bazaar that lets you buy a character with considerably more SP than your current one. If you really want to race ahead in SP - just build a character that specialises in making ISK and then buy yourself the pretrained advanced character you want and sell off your original. Unlike other games there is no "street cred" for high SP.
I would have to disagree. Time is an issue in eve, it is essential to eve. Time is what defines a character via their skill points. You mention the character bazaar, why does it exist? Because there are characters available with more skill points or different skill points than you. Someone invested the time into training that character to a particular level of skill points and then decided to sell the character to recap their investment.
This is why giving skill points to someone who hasn't invested the time is flawed (at least in my opinion).
In eve
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21747
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 23:57:00 -
[379] - Quote
Nar' alk Breau wrote:This is why giving skill points to someone who hasn't invested the time is flawed (at least in my opinion). GǪand they're not doing that either, so it all works out fine in the end. It is a good explanation for why there is no grounds for any kind of reimbursement, though. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Nar' alk Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.15 23:57:00 -
[380] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nar' alk Breau wrote:Not selfish at all. If you're talking about existing new players, they can start training the skills now and get the relevant points back. You're assuming that they want the skills, which they obviously aren't since they aren't training them. So they'd just end up with the exact same 512k SP they would have gotten anyway. No, it's entirely selfish. They want more SP because someone else is getting more SP than they do. The fact that they get more SP as well is already unfair by the same standard. If they got even more, that's just more unfair, but that doesn't bother them, now does it? It's only when it's GÇ£unfairGÇ¥ to them that a GÇ£reimbursementGÇ¥ (read: additional free hand-out) is in order. It really doesn't get any more selfish than that: GÇ£someone else got more so I deserve more and screw everyone elseGÇ¥.
Giving skill points to someone who hasn't invested the time could be considered the flaw. Wanting reimbursement for the time you invested isn't selfish. If you want to give away free skill points, reciprocally the person who invested the time for those skill points should be compensated in some fashion. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21747
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 00:03:00 -
[381] - Quote
Nar' alk Breau wrote:Wanting reimbursement for the time you invested isn't selfish. It is if the time you invested is somehow lost, which it isn't in this case. Instead, they want to be GÇ£reimbursedGÇ¥ for the grievance of having already been given more training time than they invested in just because someone else got more. And there really is no way to describe that sense of entitlement other than GÇ£selfishGÇ¥
Quote:If you want to give away free skill points, reciprocally the person who invested the time for those skill points should be compensated in some fashion. They already are. They want to be compensated for the fact that they're being compensated. They are being given some and now they want more.
Until they start specifying how people who haven't trained any of these skills should be compensated, GÇ£selfishGÇ¥ is an entirely accurate description of the kind of self-serving nonsense they're spewing. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Logan Revelore
Symbiotic Systems
30
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 00:12:00 -
[382] - Quote
Why don't they just reimburse people with however many SP they have in CDO since this skill is effectively irrelevant (semi removal) now that SDO will give players access to the 3 new skills.
That way it's fair and noone loses out on SP compared to other players withouth CDO levels. |
Nar' alk Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 00:13:00 -
[383] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nar' alk Breau wrote:Wanting reimbursement for the time you invested isn't selfish. It is if the time you invested is somehow lost, which it isn't in this case. Instead, they want to be GÇ£reimbursedGÇ¥ for the grievance of having already been given more training time than they invested in just because someone else got more. And there really is no way to describe that sense of entitlement other than GÇ£selfishGÇ¥ Quote:If you want to give away free skill points, reciprocally the person who invested the time for those skill points should be compensated in some fashion. They already are. They want to be compensated for the fact that they're being compensated. They are being given some and now they want more. Until they start specifying how people who haven't trained any of these skills should be compensated, GÇ£selfishGÇ¥ is an entirely accurate description of the kind of self-serving nonsense they're spewing.
It still boils down to the fact that party A invested less time than party B. Party A is still getting the same benefit as party B. Wanting party A to pay the same price as party B did for the same skills is only natural, not selfish. I would be fine if it weren't skill points refunded. Instead, give me some other new skill for drones to level 5. Trivializing the time I and others have invested isn't a solution that benefits anyone. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
9864
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 00:14:00 -
[384] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nar' alk Breau wrote:Wanting reimbursement for the time you invested isn't selfish. It is if the time you invested is somehow lost, which it isn't in this case. Well yes it is, because I trained both SDO 5 and CDO 5, and getting exactly what I would have gotten had I trained just SDO 5 and not even injected CDO. "Pretty much all 14 of the CSM were in favor of a drone assign nerf for OBVIOUS gameplay reasons" - Sala Cameron
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Gavin Dax
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
13
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Posted - 2014.05.16 00:14:00 -
[385] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nar' alk Breau wrote:Wanting reimbursement for the time you invested isn't selfish. It is if the time you invested is somehow lost, which it isn't in this case. Instead, they want to be GÇ£reimbursedGÇ¥ for the grievance of having already been given more training time than they invested in just because someone else got more. And there really is no way to describe that sense of entitlement other than GÇ£selfishGÇ¥ Quote:If you want to give away free skill points, reciprocally the person who invested the time for those skill points should be compensated in some fashion. They already are. They want to be compensated for the fact that they're being compensated. They are being given some and now they want more. Until they start specifying how people who haven't trained any of these skills should be compensated, GÇ£selfishGÇ¥ is an entirely accurate description of the kind of self-serving nonsense they're spewing.
Tippia, your argument just falls completely flat when you consider that this scenario could happen with skills that have much longer training times. I guess if CDO V was a 3 month skill to train instead of ~10 days, people who ask to be reimbursed would have a selfish sense of entitlement? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
21747
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 00:22:00 -
[386] - Quote
Logan Revelore wrote:Why don't they just reimburse people with however many SP they have in CDO since this skill is effectively irrelevant (semi removal) now that SDO will give players access to the 3 new skills. Because the SP and abilities aren't lost. It's hardly fair that people who are given 256k SP for free should be given another 512k SP for free even though they keep all the abilities they had.
Nar' alk Breau wrote:It still boils down to the fact that party A invested less time than party B. GǪwhich is still irrelevant, and isn't grounds for reimbursement. You are still asking to get more only because someone else got more than you did. Unless you ask that everyone get more, it's pure selfishness since you don't lose anything in the process.
Quote:Trivializing the time I and others have invested isn't a solution that benefits anyone. It benefits pretty much everyone since it keeps things as simple and as fair as possible.
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Well yes it is, because I trained both SDO 5 and CDO 5, and getting exactly what I would have gotten had I trained just SDO 5 and not even injected CDO. You trained both SDO V and CDO V and you're getting exactly what you'd get if you trained SDO V and CDO V. Nothing is lost. In fact, you gain half a week of training that you don't have to do because CCP wants you to keep all your old abilities. Someone else gaining more than you do is not a loss.
Gavin Dax wrote:I guess if CDO V was a 3 month skill to train instead of ~10 days, people who ask to be reimbursed would have a selfish sense of entitlement? If the SP wasn't lost and if they got exactly what they trained for, then yes. Asking to be reimbursed for not losing anything (indeed, for gaining 50% more than they had) would still be the same selfish sense of entitlement. Reductio ad absurdum only works as a proper argument if you keep all the circumstances the same GÇö if you don't, it immediately becomes a fallacy. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Nar' alk Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 00:24:00 -
[387] - Quote
Logan Revelore wrote:Why don't they just reimburse people with however many SP they have in CDO since this skill is effectively irrelevant (semi removal) now that SDO will give players access to the 3 new skills.
That way it's fair and noone loses out on SP compared to other players withouth CDO levels.
There are others who would agree, that would be fair. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
894
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 00:28:00 -
[388] - Quote
Easiest way to do it:
Cut CDO. Give Everyone SP back from CDO. Make SDO apply to all new skills.
Slightly more effort.
SDO = Light and Medium Skill Level. CDO = New drone support skill.
If you don't have CDO. You don't get ****.
e: dunno why that quoted |
Nar' alk Breau
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.05.16 00:31:00 -
[389] - Quote
1. Tippia wrote:Logan Revelore wrote:Why don't they just reimburse people with however many SP they have in CDO since this skill is effectively irrelevant (semi removal) now that SDO will give players access to the 3 new skills. Because the SP and abilities aren't lost. It's hardly fair that people who are given 256k SP for free should be given another 512k SP for free even though they keep all the abilities they had. 2. Nar' alk Breau wrote:It still boils down to the fact that party A invested less time than party B. GǪwhich is still irrelevant, and isn't grounds for reimbursement. You are still asking to get more only because someone else got more than you did. Unless you ask that everyone get more, it's pure selfishness since you don't lose anything in the process. 3. Quote:Trivializing the time I and others have invested isn't a solution that benefits anyone. It benefits pretty much everyone since it keeps things as simple and as fair as possible. 4. [quote=James Amril-Kesh]Well yes it is, because I trained both SDO 5 and CDO 5, and getting exactly what I would have gotten had I trained just SDO 5 and not even injected CDO. You trained both SDO V and CDO V and you're getting exactly what you'd get if you trained SDO V and CDO V. Nothing is lost. In fact, you gain half a week of training that you don't have to do because CCP wants you to keep all your old abilities. Someone else gaining more than you do is not a loss.
1. They are not free skill points. They have already been payed for with the time that the person invested.
2. The person who is getting more right now is the person who only trained SDO5. How is that fair? By your own logic, in order to keep this fair, there should be compensation to the CDO5 people.
3. What is simple and fair is refunding the skill points.
4. Again, it's not whats lost, it's what's gained by others without investing the same amount of time.
Heh, guess you can only quote 5 times. I really gotta figure out to use the edit feature here. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
894
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Posted - 2014.05.16 00:36:00 -
[390] - Quote
Nar' alk Breau wrote: You trained both SDO V and CDO V and you're getting exactly what you'd get if you trained SDO V and CDO V. Nothing is lost. In fact, you gain half a week of training that you don't have to do because CCP wants you to keep all your old abilities. Someone else gaining more than you do is not a loss.
1. They are not free skill points. They have already been payed for with the time that the person invested.
2. The person who is getting more right now is the person who only trained SDO5. How is that fair? By your own logic, in order to keep this fair, there should be compensation to the CDO5 people.
3. What is simple and fair is refunding the skill points.
4. Again, it's not whats lost, it's what's gained by others without investing the same amount of time.
Heh, guess you can only quote 5 times. I really gotta figure out to use the edit feature here.
I think you are missing the point.
Why do we train skills? Its not to have more SP than someone else, its to gain an advantage over someone else.
I have SDO and CDO to 5 so I have an advantage over people. After this change I will no longer have that advantage. Anyone with SDO to 5 CDO <5 will now have the exact same capacity as me for using both light and medium drones.
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