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Kel Gunrunner
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 07:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
I was recently the victim of a market buy order scam that cost me 3 bil.
The guy had flooded the market with sell orders for an item at 300 mil a piece, he put a buy order up that looked like a typo 700,000,000 rather than 70,000,000. so I figured Id try buying one of these and sell it. then i realised the buy order was for 10 so I couldent sell it. At this point I realised I had been scammed and thought... wouldent it be fun to aquire 10 of these to fill his order so he has to pay out... so I did I spent 3 billion on it. and when I clicked it the order dissapeared and instead it had put the 10 items up on a sell order for 700,000,000 each.
SCAMMED BIGTIME.
I didnt even know there was a skill that allowed you to create false buy orders, but after some reserch I understand the idea behind the skill it just needs a fix to stop people doing this.
The Solution: Highlight buy orders in red if the player they belong to does not have the capital to pay out. add a tooltip to explain why it is red. This can be avoided so easily.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
6582
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 08:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's one of the oldest and well known scams in EVE. It's complained about, but it's not much of an issue, scamming is allowed in this game and good appropriate solutions aren't so simple to implement. The real problem you should be worried about is why did you invest billions on a product when you lack rudimentary knowledge of the market and didn't even know the correct price of the product you're trading in? I know it's not what you want to hear, but you stumbled on the most obvious scam possible and no warning bells went off in your head. If you don't address the issue, you'll get scammed again even if margin trading scams gets removed. Well at least you get to keep your goods, that are worth 3 bil. All you need to do now is find another player who shares that belief and you can sell them your fine products at a generous 5% discount. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2618
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 08:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP cannot patch greed and stupidity out of the game. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13133
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 08:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
The skill isnt for the scam, the scam is just a clever use of the game tools. It is up to you to do your homework on something that looks too good to be true. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid Overload Everything
597
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 09:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
You gambled, you lost.
Learn from your error and move on. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |
Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
156
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 09:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
It seems hard to believe you could have 3bn and not have come across this. Travelling at the speed of love. |
Sigras
Conglomo
857
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 10:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kel Gunrunner wrote:The Solution: Highlight buy orders in red if the player they belong to does not have the capital to pay out. add a tooltip to explain why it is red. This can be avoided so easily. Do you understand what would actually be involved for a database back end programmer in order to implement your "solution"? because your idea suggests that you dont.
Let's say that the best case scenario is that CCP is willing to cache the "minimum purchasable amount" for each order in their database (which would actually make their orders database quite a bit larger as it would need to store another double)
Now lets make up a heavy trader, he has 150 buy order and 100 sell orders up at any given time and trading is his main profession. every time that his wallet updates the database has to roll through all of his buy orders and make sure that for each of them the minimum purchasable amounts are below the amount that is in his wallet.
He lives in Jita, and people are constantly buying and selling from him, which means that his wallet changes every minute or two. Now the database has to do 150 compares every minute. Still not that bad for a modern computer
now multiply that times the 10,000 people who trade in jita daily and if you think the market in jita is laggy now, just you wait.
A much better solution would be to have the option to "audit buy order" which would cost you 1,000,000 ISK, if you were wrong about the order and the person did actually have the cash to fulfill it, that 1,000,000 would be gone, but if not, the order would be canceled, their escrow seized and you would receive your ISK back
Or better yet, you could listen to the old adage that if it seems too good to be true, it is. :P |
chaosgrimm
Universal Production and Networking Services
154
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
I have to wanna say the devs had a thread about this going on at one time, not sure if anything ever came out of it. They said something along the lines that they didn't like how the UI wasn't giving players any information about the possibility of this happening, unlike in contract scams where the victims are just ppl who misread / acted to quickly, etc
One of the concerns about marking orders using the margin trading skill was that marking them could negatively impact the ppl who use the skill legitimately. |
Jur Tissant
Unreal Darkness
225
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Of course this scam is easy to spot for an experienced player but new players might reasonably expect the UI not to lie to them. Other scams rely on misdirection, so a keen eye can spot the scam if the player can temper their greed. Again, my concern here is mainly for newer players, as much as we like to say HTFU and forget about it, the game interface itself has lied to them and cost them the $20 PLEX they bought to jump-start their career.
Quote:One of the concerns about marking orders using the margin trading skill was that marking them could negatively impact the ppl who use the skill legitimately.
A small crowd in my experience, as I have never encountered a legit buy order which couldn't be fulfilled. Besides, does it matter if the the player is a legit trader? If a buy order can't be fulfilled, it can't be fulfilled, and shouldn't the seller have a right to know that? |
NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
928
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
I've always wondered, aside from this scam, what is the point of the min required for sale? I mean that seems the easiest fix for the scam is to get rid of that One less column, less database, happier server, fatter hamsters |
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Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
507
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Scams are part of life in EVE.
However, this particular scam is one that's aided and abetted by the UI itself. It uses game mechanics that require a fair bit of digging to understand and there's no indication it's even possible unless you already know about it. This makes it a "new player trap" and it should thus be quashed. - Mission Overhaul - Bridging the PVP / PVE Gap - -áIf the game stops teaching people to fear lowsec, maybe people will start going there? |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
692
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Wild idea: If Margin Trade was skilled and a player creates market orders, the server checks upon money transfer to other divisions/other characters if enough money remains in the division/wallet to cover the margin. If not, the player receives a notification to confirm the money transfer and as a result cancel the affected market order(s).
Also, why is this a separate topic and not in this thread? |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
323
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 14:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:One less column, less database, happier server, fatter hamsters
Dropping a column in a big table is a b*****d.
And you have to pray you dont (and never had) have lazy developers who select * and rely on an order existing. Or order by 1/2/3/n in the code.
A drop isnt likely
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
6078
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 14:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
Remember kids...
When you price-check an item, always cross-check that price before you buy it.
If something appears too good to be true, it probably is.
Selling stuff to buy orders just makes people smarter than you richer. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?" |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
651
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 14:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
The topic of this thread and the OP's post are based on the assumption that there is a "problem" that needs to be "fixed". I find this assumption to be flawed. |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
222
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 14:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
TL;DR version: Greedy person taught a lesson by smarter person. Wants to nerf smarter person. |
NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
928
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 15:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
afkalt wrote:NEONOVUS wrote:One less column, less database, happier server, fatter hamsters Dropping a column in a big table is a b*****d. And you have to pray you dont (and never had) have lazy developers who select * and rely on an order existing. Or order by 1/2/3/n in the code. A drop isnt likely Why is it no one codes in a sane and logical manner like all these books I am learning from advise? (Please ignore my effective and ongoing decision to write a browser in Java, it works and the code will look pretty when I am done, honest) Why do we need to call it Haskel and now have n+1 coding methods?
Also why are there so many coding methods? Arent most of them wrappered languages that end up outputting to the assembly code the same? |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
88
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 15:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
It's your own fault for not reading the price you were paying correctly... |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
403
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 15:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
1.) Hahaha, many have been there.
2.) Dark Green color for minimum buy order bigger then 1 is something I could live with. It is usually outside the window and a bit of a help. You are still to risk the investment, win or lose, which is also fine.
Comfort yes, scam fix - not really sure. Join the BIG Lottery (see Bio ingame), oldest and only non-profit Lottery in EVE, every second Monday. Wire ISK to BIG GAMES for tickets ! Join the Channel, have fun, being a lucky winner is optional ,)
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
323
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 15:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:It's your own fault for not reading the price you were paying correctly...
I don't think you know how this scam works. |
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evepal
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 15:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
If you put a buy order up for more than the lowest selling order and have capital to back that buy order, it'll automatically buy up all the sell orders equal or less than your price - that match the quantity and range requirements.
If you put a sell order up for less than the highest buying order, it'll automatically sell it to the highest buy order that's equal or more than your price.
So yeah, this is a pretty easy scam to avoid. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
323
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 15:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
evepal wrote:If you put a sell order up for less than the highest buying order, it'll automatically sell it to the highest buy order that's equal or more than your price.
What do you think happens when the seller has margin trading 5 and posts a billion isk order but only has half that in his wallet when someone tries to sell to it?
EVE doesnt do overdrafts.
Edit: The amount of people who patently have no clue how this works suggests that I should start doing this. |
Major Trant
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
922
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 16:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:...Well at least you get to keep your goods, that are worth 3 bil. All you need to do now is find another player who shares that belief and you can sell them your fine products at a generous 5% discount. These goods are not worth 3B, the scammer would have bought out the market on a rare items first, then reposted the goods on Sell Orders for a greatly inflated price, typically 10 times the price.
At the same time he posts a 'mistaken' Buy order with the price even more inflated but fixed to fail due to insufficient funds using the Margin Trading skill and an empty wallet. The scammers alt advertises the Buy order in local saying something like "Looks at this noob Market error, if only I had the cash to fulfill it." The Victim sees that he can buy the goods and immediately sell them to the Buy Order for a massive profit, without checking what the true cost of the goods are. He buys them, then gets stuck with them when the sell attempt fails and then he finds that the goods are only worth a fraction of the price he paid.
NEONOVUS wrote:I've always wondered, aside from this scam, what is the point of the min required for sale? I mean that seems the easiest fix for the scam is to get rid of that One less column, less database, happier server, fatter hamsters The purpose of the minimum buy quantity is to allow a buyer to minimise the number of stations he needs to visit when he puts up a multi station buy order. Lets say someone is putting up a Region wide buy order for 10,000 Veldspar. He doesn't care where he goes to collect it when the buy order is fulfilled, but he only wants to make one trip to fetch it. So he wants it all in one place. Not 1-50 units in each of 300 different stations. CTRL-Q - Minmatar FW - Low Sec PvP - Euro TZ - New Player Friendly Contact: Major Trant In game channel: FeO Public Recruitment thread: CTRL-Q |
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 16:17:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kel Gunrunner wrote:
I didnt even know there was a skill that allowed you to create false buy orders
This is the essence of why the scam works. It preys on a players lack of knowledge 0f a particular skill book when the game leads you to believe you can't put up a buy order without the isk.
The derpy pro-scammer kids will ironically come in here and try to say you were stupid and should have known better.
EVE is plagued with these awful and poorly thought out mechanics that some players exploit against others, and that never get fixed until there is mass complaining.
Did you know you can fly into other players missions and blow up their required mission objectives items just to **** them them? Nothing you can do about it either. You just have to eat a massive standing hit for failing the mission. Seems fair, right?
The real reason CCP doesn't police scamming is because they figure it would cost them too much to police it. That harsh and dangerous world is a line of crap they feed you to make up for their poor choices and lazyness. It's just a ******, broken game that doesn't seem to be improving at near the rate I thought it would when I started.
CCP Veritas has recently accepted this truth. I feel less inclined to be a part of EVE too after CCP Rise completely **** all over the versatility for the SP-intensive Rattlesnake, a ship considered to be UP, for no good reason whatsoever. |
Ghaustyl Kathix
Rising Thunder
30
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 16:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote: I feel less inclined to be a part of EVE too after CCP Rise completely **** all over the versatility for the SP-intensive Rattlesnake, a ship considered to be UP, for no good reason whatsoever. Stop trying to derail other threads with your usual whining. |
Beta Maoye
37
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 16:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Thanks for sharing your story. Last year a lengthy discussion thread in Features & Ideas section was dedicated to your issue. What is said has been said before. The issue remains unchanged. I think CCP will not do anything about it. Learn from your mistakes and move on. |
Mag's
the united
17836
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 18:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kel Gunrunner wrote:I was recently the victim of a market buy order scam that cost me 3 bil. The guy had flooded the market with sell orders for an item at 300 mil a piece, he put a buy order up that looked like a typo 700,000,000 rather than 70,000,000. so I figured Id try buying one of these and sell it. then i realised the buy order was for 10 so I couldent sell it. At this point I realised I had been scammed and thought... wouldent it be fun to aquire 10 of these to fill his order so he has to pay out... so I did I spent 3 billion on it. and when I clicked it the order dissapeared and instead it had put the 10 items up on a sell order for 700,000,000 each. So you thought you were going to make lots of quick ISK and screw over another pilot?
Kel Gunrunner wrote:SCAMMED BIGTIME. I didnt even know there was a skill that allowed you to create false buy orders, but after some reserch I understand the idea behind the skill it just needs a fix to stop people doing this. What you did was market PvP. But it just so happens you made a massive error of judgement. Due in part to your lack of gathering information on your investment before taking the plunge.
Kel Gunrunner wrote:The Solution: Highlight buy orders in red if the player they belong to does not have the capital to pay out. add a tooltip to explain why it is red. This can be avoided so easily.
The solution is to know what you are doing, before sinking 3 billion into an item/items worth far less. It just so happens the market has tools available to do just that. But greed and the thought of screwing over another pilot, got the better of you.
That said, I would however agree with a tooltip that states. "No order is guaranteed. Buyer beware."
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
evepal
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 18:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
afkalt wrote:evepal wrote:If you put a sell order up for less than the highest buying order, it'll automatically sell it to the highest buy order that's equal or more than your price. What do you think happens when the seller has margin trading 5 and posts a billion isk order but only has half that in his wallet when someone tries to sell to it? EVE doesnt do overdrafts. Edit: The amount of people who patently have no clue how this works suggests that I should start doing this.
Your reading comprehension suggests that you should go ahead and do it. Those two statements weren't separate, they were in conjunction with one another.
In your case, it's quite simple: there'd be a buy order that has a listing price higher than the lowest sell order price. Therefore, that's how you know it doesn't have capital.
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Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
733
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 18:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
It's possible to scam the scammer but you need to have the item in volume he is using to scam.
You need to run sale orders assuming his margin escrow is still more than the true price.
With 'typo' scams like 700 mill, a 25% escrow is 175 mill. If you put the sale for that the sale will happen and clear his escrow. A true 70 mill item just sold for 175 mill so you won.
Most traders know that if you see a buy order with a minimum buy order of more than 1 item? It's a scam. The only victims in these trades are new to Trading players and that's unfortunate. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
324
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 19:40:00 -
[30] - Quote
evepal wrote:afkalt wrote:evepal wrote:If you put a sell order up for less than the highest buying order, it'll automatically sell it to the highest buy order that's equal or more than your price. What do you think happens when the seller has margin trading 5 and posts a billion isk order but only has half that in his wallet when someone tries to sell to it? EVE doesnt do overdrafts. Edit: The amount of people who patently have no clue how this works suggests that I should start doing this. Your reading comprehension suggests that you should go ahead and do it. Those two statements weren't separate, they were in conjunction with one another. In your case, it's quite simple: there'd be a buy order that has a listing price higher than the lowest sell order price. Therefore, that's how you know it doesn't have capital.
Yes, however, this is exactly why these are invariably rare items with a minimum quantity attached per purchase. |
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Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
225
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 19:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:It preys on a players lack of knowledge 0f a particular skill book when the game leads you to believe you can't put up a buy order without the isk. Actually, it preys on players who have never heard the saying "If it looks too good to be true, it probably is." That's all there is to it. Common sense will also cause alarm bells to ring: who sets a minimum quantity for high-value items? You don't need to know the mechanics to smell something rotting.
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NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 20:26:00 -
[32] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:It preys on a players lack of knowledge 0f a particular skill book when the game leads you to believe you can't put up a buy order without the isk. Actually, it preys on players who have never heard the saying "If it looks too good to be true, it probably is." That's all there is to it. Common sense will also cause alarm bells to ring: who sets a minimum quantity for high-value items? You don't need to know the mechanics to smell something rotting.
Actually, Even fozzie admitted that the buy orders were basically lying to the player. Its not about something too good to be true, its that the game lies to the player and expecting to guess that there is a skill book that allows that is pretty stupid.
typical victim blaming irrespective of rational thought. |
Kell Braugh
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 20:36:00 -
[33] - Quote
"I didn't know there was a +3 strength warp scrambler" "I didn't know there was an infinite strength warp disruptor" "I didn't know being too close to an object in space would decloak my ship" "I didn't know margin trading existed as a skill"
See the pattern?
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Aplysia Vejun
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 20:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
Kell Braugh wrote:"I didn't know there was a +3 strength warp scrambler" "I didn't know there was an infinite strength warp disruptor" "I didn't know being too close to an object in space would decloak my ship" "I didn't know margin trading existed as a skill"
See the pattern?
. So.. if there was a bug ( or "feature") to be able to shoot other players without decloaking would you say: intended gameplay? |
Aplysia Vejun
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 20:53:00 -
[35] - Quote
Kell Braugh wrote:" Doesn't mean the company owes the cost of the product or service to the person who put work in/used capital in an attempt to fulfill the request.. Actually yes they do. If one part is retreating from the contract, they still have to pay the goods (or pay a fine) |
Kell Braugh
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 02:18:00 -
[36] - Quote
Aplysia Vejun wrote:Kell Braugh wrote:" Doesn't mean the company owes the cost of the product or service to the person who put work in/used capital in an attempt to fulfill the request.. Actually yes they do. If one part is retreating from the contract, they still have to pay the goods (or pay a fine) When did I say anything about a contract? When did the game say anything about a contract in regards to a buy order. Reading comprehension FTW.
Grats though on finding the difference between Eve's 'Regional Marketplace' mechanics and it's 'Contracts' mechanics though |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
811
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 03:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
afkalt wrote: Edit: The amount of people who patently have no clue how this works suggests that I should start doing this.
Make sure you don't have the actual amount to cover it in the wallet when the buy order is live - I got so much abuse from someone recently lol when I happened to already have a number of the item they were setting up the scam on and they hadn't yet moved the ISK out the wallet :D
While scamming is part and parcel of eve I do dislike this and the old trade window exploit (since patched) as unlike other things that Kell Braugh listed they are mechanisms that can't really be anticipated and also unlike those things exist in other games working in a standardised way that don't allow them to be manipulated in those ways and shouldn't be possible either IMO, though I'd be less against them if like above they had some notification that it couldn't be guaranteed. |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3370
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 03:17:00 -
[38] - Quote
Removed an off topic post. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
54
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 03:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
I almost fell into this same trap as a young player. Thankfully some helpful people in Amarr local saved me. The use of margin to intentionally create inflated buy orders that won't execute is absurd. There should be some kind of reasonable cap on buy order price, and serious consequences to margin trading if you lack the liquidity to execute the buy order. Also the tutorials should cover this scam. The market system creates the imprimatur of legitimacy which is especially troubling here. |
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 04:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:TL;DR version: Greedy person taught a lesson by smarter person. Wants to nerf smarter person.
It has nothing to do with being smart. Scammers are usually dumber than the people who fall for their scams, given what they spend their time trying to do. These are copycats who abuse a system that leads a player to believe something is a certain way. It has nothing to do with intelligence, just an abuse of another players all too common lack of knowledge about a certain mundane skill book. Even a moron should be able to understand this.
You are right to feel angry OP. CCP Fozzie has discussed fixing this issue recently. Disgusting how these awful gameplay mechanics are allowed to exist for so long that mostly victimize newer players. It only took them 10 years to fix can flipping. |
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chaosgrimm
Universal Production and Networking Services
154
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 05:22:00 -
[41] - Quote
Kell Braugh wrote:"I didn't know there was a +3 strength warp scrambler" "I didn't know there was an infinite strength warp disruptor" "I didn't know being too close to an object in space would decloak my ship" "I didn't know margin trading existed as a skill"
See the pattern?
In all fairness for the first 3 listed, even if the above resulted in the player losing their ship, the player would have been at least operating under the impression that they are in a dangerous area and risk losing their ship.
In margin trading, the player is not aware that they are at risk of losing the majority of what they spent.
Kell Braugh wrote: And about 'lying' to the player, well-- same thing happens in real life markets. Companies asking for proposals for services they don't end up buying, or being able to afford to buy. Doesn't mean the company owes the cost of the product or service to the person who put work in/used capital in an attempt to fulfill the request.
The big difference is that in Eve, you are instantly screwed, as opposed to waiting six months (or more) to find out you are.
Only the same thing doesnt typically happen in gaming markets, and seeing as this is a game world and not the real world, it's not reasonable to assume that margin trading or the margin trading scam exist |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
483
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 05:55:00 -
[42] - Quote
How to beat the scam.
See odd buy order,
fill it buying your stuff somewhere else, or as I have done in the past make it and have in the station. I usually kept some overstock if market kind of meh at time of delivery. Assuming no dire need of liquid isk, jsut let it rot and wait for markets to get better.
May only get a few sales but still can make some isk.
if making isk was as easy as seeing low sell order, high buy order we'd all be bazillionaires. Well that and I rarely believe in coincidences.
When you mix the coincidence of odd buy/sell with coincidence hundreds haven't run a train on it.....that's just too many coincidences
For op...to play this game safely in the future besides the above you want to do this on days following patch notes/blogs coming out for upcoming patches and the speculation runs rampant. then watch after patch hit a bit.
When ccp "nerfs" something you can see dips in sell price, But you get a decent chance a buy order has not adjusted and these would be legit risks. Still a risk, but odds a bit better then
The key here though is you need to see lots of buy orders with odd prices. Better chance these peeps are bad at trading or just not online at the time of patch notes. This would be why when I go vacations and such...I pull buy orders. Just not digging item A getting a market slump and peeps running a train on my better prices as a buy order when not able to login often. |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5565
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 06:55:00 -
[43] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:I've always wondered, aside from this scam, what is the point of the min required for sale? I mean that seems the easiest fix for the scam is to get rid of that One less column, less database, happier server, fatter hamsters
Say I want to get 100 Trit and am willing to do some hauling to get it cheap, but I'm not willing to take a trip to get 1 Trit out of a station, but am willing to go get 10. I can only afford 100 Trit.
If I set a buy order with no minimum, I might get 1 Trit in each of 100 stations, such that I've wasted all my money on things not worth picking up. The minimum guarantees that every Trit I buy is in a stack worth picking up.
It's also totally unnecessary to perform the scam.
Jur Tissant wrote:A small crowd in my experience, as I have never encountered a legit buy order which couldn't be fulfilled. Besides, does it matter if the the player is a legit trader? If a buy order can't be fulfilled, it can't be fulfilled, and shouldn't the seller have a right to know that?
And as soon as you become a seller, you are informed that the buyer was unable to cover his order.
In other words, the escrow check happens as soon as it matters. That's why it's impossible to lose anything selling to any order. Either you get the money you agreed to receive, or you keep your items.
Major Trant wrote:These goods are not worth 3B, the scammer would have bought out the market on a rare items first, then reposted the goods on Sell Orders for a greatly inflated price, typically 10 times the price.
As we all know, goods are worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for them. OP valued the items at 3B. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
evepal
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
43
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Posted - 2014.09.12 11:57:00 -
[44] - Quote
This scam should stay. As for station trading, there is little to no risk if you know what you're doing and aren't speculating your entire assets on a fluctuating item -- so there needs to be perfectly legitimate real world examples of those scams, that be replicated to the best of their ability within the confines of the games mechanics.
There are people in the real world, who do in fact sell items far, far beyond the normal price, and people will buy it. You cannot claim you were unaware of an items true value as defense for falling for the scam. Personal incredulity is not a valid argument in any discussion, and that includes this.
Addressing new players who fall for this, if they've amassed a wealth that's going to substantially hurt them in the time before they've started to get hooked into the universe, then they're in no real danger, are they? Either they buy another PLEX, or they'll continue to make ISK the way they did before, or they'll leave. EvE is a harsh game by mechanics, and if they don't like it, then this only serves as the instrument that gave them the conclusion.
There is going to be a mechanic that some new players don't like, just because some new players didn't like this one, doesn't make it an invalid mechanic. You may not personally like it, but please don't confuse personal distaste for something and the health of the universe.
That's just my 0.01 ISK up on this. |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
35
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 13:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:I've always wondered, aside from this scam, what is the point of the min required for sale? I mean that seems the easiest fix for the scam is to get rid of that One less column, less database, happier server, fatter hamsters
Some of us actually do not want to buy stuff below a specific amount... When you put up a region-wide buy order for, let's say, Tritanium, would you want to pick up 100 units here, 50 there, and the two last pieces over there? I'd rather only buy at least 500.000 units, and then fly to every station to pick up my 500.000+ units each. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the aliterate. |
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
89
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Posted - 2014.09.12 13:19:00 -
[46] - Quote
This margin trading scam post was created by ccp rise. Why this is not locked for repeat post is unclear Is that my two cents or yours? |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3373
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Posted - 2014.09.12 17:51:00 -
[47] - Quote
Quote:17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.
As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread. Thread closed. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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