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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1002
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 18:00:48 -
[1] - Quote
Gallente
vexor - change drone bonus to medium drones, 50/100 bay Navy vexor - reduce drone bonus to 7.5% damage Deimos - remove a turret , buff 5% damage bonus to 7.5% catalyst - remove a turret and high for a 3rd midslot ishtar - reduce drone bonus to 7.5% damage and reduce heavy drone tracking/speed bonus to 5% 125/250 bay
Guristas i feel the 2 superdrone experiment is just OP and should be replaced with the normal 5 drone system and all droneboats have -1 slot for a reason these should follow that too, removing a lowslot each restricts the dps output from getting OP
Worm - switch the missile damage to a role bonus, then use the 10% light drone damage bonus as the gallente bonus per lv 25/50 bay, remove a lowslot
Gila - switch the missile damage to a role bonus, then use the 10% medium drone damage bonus as the gallente bonus per lv 50/100 bay, remove a lowslot
Rattlesnake - switch the missile damage to a role bonus at 25% as 50% is too much and outshines the navy scorp easily, then use the 10% Heavy/Sentry drone damage bonus as the gallente bonus per lv 125/250 bay , remove a lowslot
Serpentis i still think 90% webs are far to OP and a combination of nerfing web strength to 45% max should fix it.
vigilant and vindicator - reduce damage bonus
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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BadAssMcKill
ElitistOps
913
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 18:17:22 -
[2] - Quote
Yea the rattlesnake sure needs to be worse than it is now |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1002
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 18:26:54 -
[3] - Quote
BadAssMcKill wrote:Yea the rattlesnake sure needs to be worse than it is now
Also I am curious as to how you came to the conclusion that these ships do too much damage
comparatively too other ships in the game of similar class or even higher .. for instance a gila can do 900dps easy which for a cruiser is extremely high even battlecruisers struggle too do that
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
70
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 18:28:16 -
[4] - Quote
Cool So why do you think these ships need changing. Why is the Deimos so OP in its correct form? What is making the Gila So OP by having that extra low slot? Any of them really....
Just saying They need less DPS without saying why you think they need changes is not a very constructive topic on an Ideas Discussion sub forum.
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1002
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 18:33:27 -
[5] - Quote
Tappits wrote:Cool So why do you think these ships need changing. Why is the Deimos so OP in its correct form? What is making the Gila So OP by having that extra low slot? Any of them really.... Just saying They need less DPS without saying why you think they need changes is not a very constructive topic on an Ideas Discussion sub forum.
cruisers doing more dps than combat battlecruisers kind of obsoletes them somewhat
-deimos is perhaps more edge case ... but a nos in exchange for a little dps is no bad thing it has fair amount of dps anyway. - i feel that cruisers should have lower dps on average then bc's and battleships
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
|
Dork Action
BACKUPLEGION
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 18:39:10 -
[6] - Quote
BS have projection to make up for it, BC just suck |
Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
70
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 18:40:14 -
[7] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Tappits wrote:Cool So why do you think these ships need changing. Why is the Deimos so OP in its correct form? What is making the Gila So OP by having that extra low slot? Any of them really.... Just saying They need less DPS without saying why you think they need changes is not a very constructive topic on an Ideas Discussion sub forum. cruisers doing more dps than combat battlecruisers kind of obsoletes them somewhat -deimos is perhaps more edge case ... but a nos in exchange for a little dps is no bad thing it has fair amount of dps anyway. - i feel that cruisers should have lower dps on average then bc's and battleships
battle cruisers advantages are more tank the ability to MJD and fit gang links. For that the trade off is is maybe a bit less DPS compared to HAC's and Faction/Pirate and full Gank fit crusers.
The trade off the cruisers have is more dps agility for less tank.
I don't see anything wrong with them. and haven't they only just had a balance pass? |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1002
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 18:44:19 -
[8] - Quote
Tappits wrote:Harvey James wrote:Tappits wrote:Cool So why do you think these ships need changing. Why is the Deimos so OP in its correct form? What is making the Gila So OP by having that extra low slot? Any of them really.... Just saying They need less DPS without saying why you think they need changes is not a very constructive topic on an Ideas Discussion sub forum. cruisers doing more dps than combat battlecruisers kind of obsoletes them somewhat -deimos is perhaps more edge case ... but a nos in exchange for a little dps is no bad thing it has fair amount of dps anyway. - i feel that cruisers should have lower dps on average then bc's and battleships battle cruisers advantages are more tank the ability to MJD and fit gang links. For that the trade off is is maybe a bit less DPS compared to HAC's and Faction/Pirate and full Gank fit crusers. The trade off the cruisers have is more dps agility for less tank. I don't see anything wrong with them. and haven't they only just had a balance pass?
bc's warfare link is pretty useless or not worth using on them, MMJD is still quite new too them and doesn't really fit or work well on most of them, or you have too sacrifice somethings for it, they trade off mobility for tank and dps. cruisers trade tank, fitting, dps for speed, mobility
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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Yazzinra
Scorpion Ventures Rim Worlds Protectorate
53
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 19:04:25 -
[9] - Quote
Why do you hate Gallente? Also, HACs can't be compared to cruisers or battle cruisers.
That said, giving up a high for a third mid on the catalyst could be interesting, though I can only imagine the gankers reactions. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1002
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 19:12:02 -
[10] - Quote
Yazzinra wrote:Why do you hate Gallente? Also, HACs can't be compared to cruisers or battle cruisers.
That said, giving up a high for a third mid on the catalyst could be interesting, though I can only imagine the gankers reactions.
:) im a fan of gallente ships i have a fair amount of them.. but you have too admit they are the dominant race atm .. its for a reason. HAC's are just supposed to be resilient cruisers... and yes nerfing the catalyst damage is no bad thing from a ganking point of view , in a pvp point of view the extra mid for a web is more useful too actually apply its dps
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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Leonard Nimoy II
Dark Force Protectorate Special Operators Federation Alliance
95
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 19:37:10 -
[11] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:I feel there are too many cruiser hulls that do more dps than combat battlecruisers do .. and some ships that are just OP on damage .. not including T3's as we know they need there nerf cycle first
Gallente vexor - change drone bonus to medium drones, 50/100 bay
Is this a joke? |
Iain Cariaba
662
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 19:47:05 -
[12] - Quote
Yazzinra wrote:Why do you hate Gallente? Also, HACs can't be compared to cruisers or battle cruisers.
That said, giving up a high for a third mid on the catalyst could be interesting, though I can only imagine the gankers reactions. They'll stop using catalysts and switch to thrashers, which will mean forums tears to nerf thrashers. Gankers will still gank, carebears will still rage, life will go on, just in minmatar ships instead of gallente.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2564
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 20:02:08 -
[13] - Quote
All ships should do 10 DPS from there respective weapons that they there will be no OP or underpowered ships.
-
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1002
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 20:02:48 -
[14] - Quote
Leonard Nimoy II wrote:Harvey James wrote:I feel there are too many cruiser hulls that do more dps than combat battlecruisers do .. and some ships that are just OP on damage .. not including T3's as we know they need there nerf cycle first
Gallente vexor - change drone bonus to medium drones, 50/100 bay
Is this a joke?
why would it be a joke or a bad thing even ?? .. its a medium ship using battleship drones rather than drones its supposed too use .. also mediums have there advantages over heavies.. and the overall damage output of vexors are very strong atm .. a little too strong.. especially in shield dps setups..
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
|
BadAssMcKill
ElitistOps
913
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 20:07:22 -
[15] - Quote
You give up hard tackle, a strong tank and you can only use a 2 heavy 2 med 1 light setup
Do you even play this game |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1003
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 20:13:14 -
[16] - Quote
BadAssMcKill wrote:You give up hard tackle, a strong tank and you can only use a 2 heavy 2 med 1 light setup
Do you even play this game
and what is your actual point here? .. you don't make a lot of sense
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
|
Gay Pornstar
Surprisingly Deep Hole Try Rerolling
23
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 20:23:59 -
[17] - Quote
I think the issue here isnt that these ships are OP, but that battlecruisers suck.
There is an idea of a Gay Pornstar; some kind of abstraction. But there is no real me: only an entity, something illusory. And though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable... I simply am not there.
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BadAssMcKill
ElitistOps
913
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 21:06:52 -
[18] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:BadAssMcKill wrote:You give up hard tackle, a strong tank and you can only use a 2 heavy 2 med 1 light setup
Do you even play this game and what is your actual point here? .. you don't make a lot of sense
To get the dps you typically have to give something up, blasters for example have high damage but terrible range
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Syrias Bizniz
Krautfleet
383
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 21:21:38 -
[19] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:I feel there are too many cruiser hulls that do more dps than combat battlecruisers do .. and some ships that are just OP on damage .. not including T3's as we know they need there nerf cycle first
Gallente vexor - change drone bonus to medium drones, 50/100 bay Navy vexor - reduce drone bonus to 7.5% damage Deimos - remove a turret , buff 5% damage bonus to 7.5% catalyst - remove a turret and high for a 3rd midslot ishtar - reduce drone bonus to 7.5% damage and reduce heavy drone tracking/speed bonus to 5% 125/250 bay
Guristas i feel the 2 superdrone experiment is just OP and should be replaced with the normal 5 drone system and all droneboats have -1 slot for a reason these should follow that too, removing a lowslot each restricts the dps output from getting OP
Worm - switch the missile damage to a role bonus, then use the 10% light drone damage bonus as the gallente bonus per lv 25/50 bay, remove a lowslot
Gila - switch the missile damage to a role bonus, then use the 10% medium drone damage bonus as the gallente bonus per lv 50/100 bay, remove a lowslot
Rattlesnake - switch the missile damage to a role bonus at 25% as 50% is too much and outshines the navy scorp easily, then use the 10% Heavy/Sentry drone damage bonus as the gallente bonus per lv 125/250 bay , remove a lowslot
Serpentis i still think 90% webs are far to OP and a combination of nerfing web strength to 45% max should fix it.
vigilant and vindicator - reduce damage bonus
Vexor is fine as it is. Navy Vexor is fine as it is. Deimos is currently powerful, but imo in a good spot. Catalyst is fine as it is. Ishtar needs a nerf. Not sure if this should be by nerfing the Ishtar itself or changing Sentries. For example i don't understand why Sentries, as a weapon system that is more in the BS range than in Cruiser / BC, have a 125m Signature Resolution.
Worm was pretty meh before patch, and you want it changed back to underwhelming performance? Same for the Gila and Rattler?
Also, if the Gila can get 900ish DPS and that is op, then why is there no proposed nerf to the Vigilant?
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Lugh Crow-Slave
244
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 21:25:43 -
[20] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Tappits wrote:Cool So why do you think these ships need changing. Why is the Deimos so OP in its correct form? What is making the Gila So OP by having that extra low slot? Any of them really.... Just saying They need less DPS without saying why you think they need changes is not a very constructive topic on an Ideas Discussion sub forum. cruisers doing more dps than combat battlecruisers kind of obsoletes them somewhat
tell that to the drake...
as for ships that need nerfs lets see what has killed me to day
oh the strat way to op
and a cat killed me in a hauler so it also needs nerf
tengu ganked me in a ls mission so it should also be nerfed |
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Meyr
Destructive Influence Northern Coalition.
365
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 22:52:09 -
[21] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Yazzinra wrote:Why do you hate Gallente? Also, HACs can't be compared to cruisers or battle cruisers.
That said, giving up a high for a third mid on the catalyst could be interesting, though I can only imagine the gankers reactions. They'll stop using catalysts and switch to thrashers, which will mean forums tears to nerf thrashers. Gankers will still gank, carebears will still rage, life will go on, just in minmatar ships instead of gallente.
No, because Thrashers cannot be rapidly trained up to do almost 500 DPS with an inexpensive fit - they top out a bit under 400. Combined with the recently announced banning of command broadcasting across multiple clients, a change to the Catalyst's DPS would have ganker's tears flowing like Niagara Falls, and I don't think CCP is quite ready to harvest them is so large of a quantity just yet, even if trading a high for a mid would be a good idea, and bring the hull back into alignment with the description of its stated purpose - catching frigates. (Let's not even mention the travesty that is the Amarr destroyer's slot layout - WTF are you supposed to catch and kill with only one mid-slot?!) |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
544
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 22:57:25 -
[22] - Quote
Thrasher is [email protected] million cost.
Thread gave me a laugh though, well done McTroll |
Meyr
Destructive Influence Northern Coalition.
365
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 23:07:38 -
[23] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Thrasher is [email protected] million cost. Thread gave me a laugh though, well done McTroll
Fine, then - what is the DPS of a comparably-fit Catalyst, using the same fitting tool? I don't currently have access to EFT, as I'm on an iPad, so I'm going with the numbers I have available using an iPad app.
Put your numbers into context, genius, or keep silent.
How's that for McTroll? |
Sigras
Conglomo
981
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 23:31:06 -
[24] - Quote
wow, way to compare one statistic while ignoring all the others that are relevant to the ship...
The only T1 cruiser you listed is the vexor, and while it is a great cruiser, it doesnt hold a candle to the myrmidon which does 100 more DPS and has almost twice the HP as the vexor.
Everything else takes quite a bit more time to train into and is quite a bit more expensive.
It's almost as though you were intentionally making an unfair comparison in order to back up your point which has no basis in reality... |
Mharius Skjem
Opacity Circles
218
|
Posted - 2014.11.30 23:57:44 -
[25] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Tappits wrote:Cool So why do you think these ships need changing. Why is the Deimos so OP in its correct form? What is making the Gila So OP by having that extra low slot? Any of them really.... Just saying They need less DPS without saying why you think they need changes is not a very constructive topic on an Ideas Discussion sub forum. cruisers doing more dps than combat battlecruisers kind of obsoletes them somewhat -deimos is perhaps more edge case ... but a nos in exchange for a little dps is no bad thing it has fair amount of dps anyway. - i feel that cruisers should have lower dps on average then bc's and battleships
Combat battlecruisers are not bc's as such they are just heavy cruisers. Cruisers with more ehp, that's all.
A recovering btter vet, with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...
Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
544
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 05:54:43 -
[26] - Quote
Meyr wrote:afkalt wrote:Thrasher is [email protected] million cost. Thread gave me a laugh though, well done McTroll Fine, then - what is the DPS of a comparably-fit Catalyst, using the same fitting tool? I don't currently have access to EFT, as I'm on an iPad, so I'm going with the numbers I have available using an iPad app. Put your numbers into context, genius, or keep silent. How's that for McTroll?
I was referring to op as the troll.
Cat does more on paper but thrasher gains selective damage making up for the drop, mostly. |
Syrias Bizniz
Krautfleet
387
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 11:03:53 -
[27] - Quote
Meyr wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:Yazzinra wrote:Why do you hate Gallente? Also, HACs can't be compared to cruisers or battle cruisers.
That said, giving up a high for a third mid on the catalyst could be interesting, though I can only imagine the gankers reactions. They'll stop using catalysts and switch to thrashers, which will mean forums tears to nerf thrashers. Gankers will still gank, carebears will still rage, life will go on, just in minmatar ships instead of gallente. No, because Thrashers cannot be rapidly trained up to do almost 500 DPS with an inexpensive fit - they top out a bit under 400. Combined with the recently announced banning of command broadcasting across multiple clients, a change to the Catalyst's DPS would have ganker's tears flowing like Niagara Falls, and I don't think CCP is quite ready to harvest them is so large of a quantity just yet, even if trading a high for a mid would be a good idea, and bring the hull back into alignment with the description of its stated purpose - catching frigates. (Let's not even mention the travesty that is the Amarr destroyer's slot layout - WTF are you supposed to catch and kill with only one mid-slot?!)
Actually, the real consequence would be: They get Amarr Dessie, and still skill for blasters. Because the Catalyst doesn't have a damage bonus, and the Coercer has 8 turrets, too. |
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
351
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 12:42:32 -
[28] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:I feel there are too many cruiser hulls that do more dps than combat battlecruisers do .. and some ships that are just OP on damage .. not including T3's as we know they need there nerf cycle first
Gallente vexor - change drone bonus to medium drones, 50/100 bay Navy vexor - reduce drone bonus to 7.5% damage Deimos - remove a turret , buff 5% damage bonus to 7.5% catalyst - remove a turret and high for a 3rd midslot ishtar - reduce drone bonus to 7.5% damage and reduce heavy drone tracking/speed bonus to 5% 125/250 bay
Guristas i feel the 2 superdrone experiment is just OP and should be replaced with the normal 5 drone system and all droneboats have -1 slot for a reason these should follow that too, removing a lowslot each restricts the dps output from getting OP
Worm - switch the missile damage to a role bonus, then use the 10% light drone damage bonus as the gallente bonus per lv 25/50 bay, remove a lowslot
Gila - switch the missile damage to a role bonus, then use the 10% medium drone damage bonus as the gallente bonus per lv 50/100 bay, remove a lowslot
Rattlesnake - switch the missile damage to a role bonus at 25% as 50% is too much and outshines the navy scorp easily, then use the 10% Heavy/Sentry drone damage bonus as the gallente bonus per lv 125/250 bay , remove a lowslot
Serpentis i still think 90% webs are far to OP and a combination of nerfing web strength to 45% max should fix it.
vigilant and vindicator - reduce damage bonus
Thanks for telling us about your feelings. No go away with your stupid ideas.
Seriously, I went through each of your suggestions, and each seemed somehow worse then the last. Please just stop.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14068
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 12:52:51 -
[29] - Quote
Meyr wrote:afkalt wrote:Thrasher is [email protected] million cost. Thread gave me a laugh though, well done McTroll Fine, then - what is the DPS of a comparably-fit Catalyst, using the same fitting tool? I don't currently have access to EFT, as I'm on an iPad, so I'm going with the numbers I have available using an iPad app. Put your numbers into context, genius, or keep silent. How's that for McTroll?
Perhaps you should learn how to gank before this goes much further.
Harvey James wrote:
cruisers doing more dps than combat battlecruisers kind of obsoletes them somewhat
Brutix puts out more firepower than a diemost.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Viribus
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
334
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 13:17:35 -
[30] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: Brutix puts out more firepower than a diemost.
less than one gun more, actually, since the two 5% bonuses the Deimos gets stack with each other, making it a little better than the brutix's 10% bonus. Works out to something like a 15% dps advantage over a Deimos, before drones (which make the difference smaller, obviously)
the deimos also gets more tank, way more mobility, more scan res, more sensor strength, better range, and a way smaller signature
that's pretty much the fundamental problem with BCs in a nutshell; they sacrifice way too much for a small advantage in DPS. Pretty much every cruiser hull in the game got buffed while the two most viable BCs got nerfed into the ground
thanks rise
watch me be a scurb and get owned
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Shivanthar
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
132
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 15:04:13 -
[31] - Quote
Yesterday, I saw a sacrilege flashing red in sortet, surely waiting for a fair fight. Gunned up my dusty stabber fleet issue and went out. When I was undocking, I told myself "I am going to loose this ship" After some brawling I lost. I enjoyed the fight. I returned to station. I continued to do my stuff. Should sacrilege be nerfed? No. Is it powerful? It should be. Do I care? No. I wanted to fight, I fought and lost and it was done.
Next time I am going to be more careful about overheting stuff. Learned from mistakes? Yes. This should be the attitude of any pilot floating in space, and game recommends it this way. No hard feelings against OP, but if they seem overpowered, I assume ccp already knows about it.
_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
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Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Volition Cult
850
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 15:09:54 -
[32] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:I feel there are too many cruiser hulls that do more dps than combat battlecruisers do .. and some ships that are just OP on damage .. not including T3's as we know they need there nerf cycle first Hahahahahahahahahaha.
Would you like some whine with your cheese? |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1006
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 16:52:45 -
[33] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Meyr wrote:afkalt wrote:Thrasher is [email protected] million cost. Thread gave me a laugh though, well done McTroll Fine, then - what is the DPS of a comparably-fit Catalyst, using the same fitting tool? I don't currently have access to EFT, as I'm on an iPad, so I'm going with the numbers I have available using an iPad app. Put your numbers into context, genius, or keep silent. How's that for McTroll? Perhaps you should learn how to gank before this goes much further. Harvey James wrote:
cruisers doing more dps than combat battlecruisers kind of obsoletes them somewhat
Brutix puts out more firepower than a diemost.
i was expecting someone too point that out .. but i was generalising ofc. main point being why would you fly a bc when you can fly a cruiser that can do much the same thing but with the low sig, mobility, warp speed advantage..
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1006
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 17:01:26 -
[34] - Quote
Syrias Bizniz wrote:Harvey James wrote:I feel there are too many cruiser hulls that do more dps than combat battlecruisers do .. and some ships that are just OP on damage .. not including T3's as we know they need there nerf cycle first
Gallente vexor - change drone bonus to medium drones, 50/100 bay Navy vexor - reduce drone bonus to 7.5% damage Deimos - remove a turret , buff 5% damage bonus to 7.5% catalyst - remove a turret and high for a 3rd midslot ishtar - reduce drone bonus to 7.5% damage and reduce heavy drone tracking/speed bonus to 5% 125/250 bay
Guristas i feel the 2 superdrone experiment is just OP and should be replaced with the normal 5 drone system and all droneboats have -1 slot for a reason these should follow that too, removing a lowslot each restricts the dps output from getting OP
Worm - switch the missile damage to a role bonus, then use the 10% light drone damage bonus as the gallente bonus per lv 25/50 bay, remove a lowslot
Gila - switch the missile damage to a role bonus, then use the 10% medium drone damage bonus as the gallente bonus per lv 50/100 bay, remove a lowslot
Rattlesnake - switch the missile damage to a role bonus at 25% as 50% is too much and outshines the navy scorp easily, then use the 10% Heavy/Sentry drone damage bonus as the gallente bonus per lv 125/250 bay , remove a lowslot
Serpentis i still think 90% webs are far to OP and a combination of nerfing web strength to 45% max should fix it.
vigilant and vindicator - reduce damage bonus Vexor is fine as it is. Navy Vexor is fine as it is. Deimos is currently powerful, but imo in a good spot. Catalyst is fine as it is. Ishtar needs a nerf. Not sure if this should be by nerfing the Ishtar itself or changing Sentries. For example i don't understand why Sentries, as a weapon system that is more in the BS range than in Cruiser / BC, have a 125m Signature Resolution. Worm was pretty meh before patch, and you want it changed back to underwhelming performance? Same for the Gila and Rattler? Also, if the Gila can get 900ish DPS and that is op, then why is there no proposed nerf to the Vigilant?
there is .. the last line .. i just haven't put any specific amount, NVI - is better than most bc's .. thus obsoletes them entirely which is obviously a bad thing .. 900 dps fits and cruiser hull advantages.. Sentries - sig res is 400, a slight range nerf is probably right , but since they are for battleships they can't be nerfed too much or that won't be fair on the domi/other battleships, so a damage nerf to non battleship hulls make more sense
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1006
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 17:03:42 -
[35] - Quote
Viribus wrote:baltec1 wrote: Brutix puts out more firepower than a diemost.
less than one gun more, actually, since the two 5% bonuses the Deimos gets stack with each other, making it a little better than the brutix's 10% bonus. Works out to something like a 15% dps advantage over a Deimos, before drones (which make the difference smaller, obviously) the deimos also gets more tank, way more mobility, more scan res, more sensor strength, better range, and a way smaller signature that's pretty much the fundamental problem with BCs in a nutshell; they sacrifice way too much for a small advantage in DPS. Pretty much every cruiser hull in the game got buffed while the two most viable BCs got nerfed into the ground thanks rise
rise has definitely overbuffed most things he has touched , yet the poor eagle is still rubbish
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
660
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 17:07:05 -
[36] - Quote
I do not agree with the OP and I hope that CCP does not listen to him, because his ideas concerning ship balance are knee jerk and half-baked.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1006
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 17:15:16 -
[37] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:I do not agree with the OP and I hope that CCP does not listen to him, because his ideas concerning ship balance are knee jerk and half-baked.
your post is knee jerk and half baked
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
292
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 17:19:17 -
[38] - Quote
Yazzinra wrote:Why do you hate Gallente? Also, HACs can't be compared to cruisers or battle cruisers.
That said, giving up a high for a third mid on the catalyst could be interesting, though I can only imagine the gankers reactions.
To be fair, Gallente are disgustingly OP right now. Vexor / Navy Vexor / Ishtar need to be nerfed hard. The Deimos is borderline...
Catalysts could use a bit less DPS, I mean you can get the thing to nearly 650.
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Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
292
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 17:21:11 -
[39] - Quote
Shivanthar wrote:Yesterday, I saw a sacrilege flashing red in sortet, surely waiting for a fair fight. Gunned up my dusty stabber fleet issue and went out. When I was undocking, I told myself "I am going to loose this ship" After some brawling I lost. I enjoyed the fight. I returned to station. I continued to do my stuff. Should sacrilege be nerfed? No. Is it powerful? It should be. Do I care? No. I wanted to fight, I fought and lost and it was done.
Next time I am going to be more careful about overheating stuff. Learned from mistakes? Yes. This should be the attitude of any pilot floating in space, and game recommends it this way. No hard feelings against OP, but if they seem overpowered, I assume ccp already knows about it.
Your entire post is completely irrelevant to the discussion.
Create a larger straw man next time. |
Sigras
Conglomo
983
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 17:30:53 -
[40] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:baltec1 wrote:Brutix puts out more firepower than a diemost. i was expecting someone too point that out .. but i was generalising ofc. main point being why would you fly a bc when you can fly a cruiser that can do much the same thing but with the low sig, mobility, warp speed advantage.. lets see... cost, training time, survivability, just to name a few. |
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Zavand Crendraven
Rolling Static Gone Critical
3
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 17:33:32 -
[41] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:there is .. the last line .. i just haven't put any specific amount, NVI - is better than most bc's .. thus obsoletes them entirely which is obviously a bad thing .. 900 dps fits and cruiser hull advantages.. Sentries - sig res is 400, a slight range nerf is probably right , but since they are for battleships they can't be nerfed too much or that won't be fair on the domi/other battleships, so a damage nerf to non battleship hulls make more sense The VNI has 200m3 dronebay so when you kill a drone it cant replace it unless it has made sacrifices on different drones. 200m3 is enough for 1 set of heavies, 1 set of mediums and 1 set of lights or some combination of heavies and lights. If your a large ship then shoot down a few heavies and dps start to get anemic. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14068
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 17:51:44 -
[42] - Quote
Sigras wrote:Harvey James wrote:baltec1 wrote:Brutix puts out more firepower than a diemost. i was expecting someone too point that out .. but i was generalising ofc. main point being why would you fly a bc when you can fly a cruiser that can do much the same thing but with the low sig, mobility, warp speed advantage.. lets see... cost, training time, survivability, just to name a few.
Its almost as if they simply look at unfitted hulls in EFT and base everything off that.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Shivanthar
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
132
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 19:30:21 -
[43] - Quote
Phaade wrote:Shivanthar wrote:Yesterday, I saw a sacrilege flashing red in sortet, surely waiting for a fair fight. Gunned up my dusty stabber fleet issue and went out. When I was undocking, I told myself "I am going to loose this ship" After some brawling I lost. I enjoyed the fight. I returned to station. I continued to do my stuff. Should sacrilege be nerfed? No. Is it powerful? It should be. Do I care? No. I wanted to fight, I fought and lost and it was done.
Next time I am going to be more careful about overheating stuff. Learned from mistakes? Yes. This should be the attitude of any pilot floating in space, and game recommends it this way. No hard feelings against OP, but if they seem overpowered, I assume ccp already knows about it. Your entire post is completely irrelevant to the discussion. Create a larger straw man next time.
I won't argue with you. All I can say is read it until you see something relevant. If you insist you don't see anything, read one more time and trust me the idea will appear in front of you. Its like cross your eyes and see the 3D image.
_Half _the lies they tell about me **aren't **true.
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Valkin Mordirc
409
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 20:15:02 -
[44] - Quote
Cruisers are actually pretty fine where they are. The VNI might do it's job to well, but it's certainly not on the levels how you are putting it.
For the most part, HAC's fill the role just fine. The Deimos probably one of the better ones, and the Eagle being probably the worst. I think the Deimos does just fine as is though, again maybe slightly overpowered. But not enough to lose a turret slot in exchange for a neut. It's an active tanking ship it doesn't need more cap pressure to put on itself.
Rather then calling for a Super-nerf on cruisers. What about a buff to CBC's?
Will agree the the Gila/Worm are OP, though. Gila can sling 1000dps with a bling fit. D=
#DeleteTheWeak
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1006
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 20:34:09 -
[45] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Cruisers are actually pretty fine where they are. The VNI might do it's job to well, but it's certainly not on the levels how you are putting it.
For the most part, HAC's fill the role just fine. The Deimos probably one of the better ones, and the Eagle being probably the worst. I think the Deimos does just fine as is though, again maybe slightly overpowered. But not enough to lose a turret slot in exchange for a neut. It's an active tanking ship it doesn't need more cap pressure to put on itself.
Rather then calling for a Super-nerf on cruisers. What about a buff to CBC's?
Will agree the the Gila/Worm are OP, though. Gila can sling 1000dps with a bling fit. D=
hardly a supernerf, just toning down some of the very strong dps cruisers too more reasonable dps levels .. try fitting a VNI with ogres and 2 blasters 3 DDA's and you'll see just how much dps you can get.. Deimos , i was thinking more a Nos too help its cap, with a small damage buff too compensate some dps loss.
Notice how there are no amarr or minmatar ships in my list..
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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Valkin Mordirc
409
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 21:44:37 -
[46] - Quote
Quote:hardly a supernerf, just toning down some of the very strong dps cruisers too more reasonable dps levels .. try fitting a VNI with ogres and 2 blasters 3 DDA's and you'll see just how much dps you can get.. Deimos , i was thinking more a Nos too help its cap, with a small damage buff too compensate some dps loss.
Notice how there are no amarr or minmatar ships in my list..
Yeah a Vexor would get a pretty sick DPS.
But your not going to have a tank at that point.
And I really don't care that you didn't mention Amarr or Minmatar ships, What was the point of mentioning it in the first place? I never said anything about them.
And again, Why do you insist on Nerfing Cruiser just because CBC's are flimsy? A HAC SHOULD beat a CBC. Even if CBC's where decent.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Zavand Crendraven
Rolling Static Gone Critical
3
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 21:56:49 -
[47] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:Cruisers are actually pretty fine where they are. The VNI might do it's job to well, but it's certainly not on the levels how you are putting it.
For the most part, HAC's fill the role just fine. The Deimos probably one of the better ones, and the Eagle being probably the worst. I think the Deimos does just fine as is though, again maybe slightly overpowered. But not enough to lose a turret slot in exchange for a neut. It's an active tanking ship it doesn't need more cap pressure to put on itself.
Rather then calling for a Super-nerf on cruisers. What about a buff to CBC's?
Will agree the the Gila/Worm are OP, though. Gila can sling 1000dps with a bling fit. D= hardly a supernerf, just toning down some of the very strong dps cruisers too more reasonable dps levels .. try fitting a VNI with ogres and 2 blasters 3 DDA's and you'll see just how much dps you can get.. Deimos , i was thinking more a Nos too help its cap, with a small damage buff too compensate some dps loss. Notice how there are no amarr or minmatar ships in my list.. what about the cerberus then? can get same dps as deimos and apply it to way better ranges also needs nerf hammer no? |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1006
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 22:02:29 -
[48] - Quote
Zavand Crendraven wrote:Harvey James wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:Cruisers are actually pretty fine where they are. The VNI might do it's job to well, but it's certainly not on the levels how you are putting it.
For the most part, HAC's fill the role just fine. The Deimos probably one of the better ones, and the Eagle being probably the worst. I think the Deimos does just fine as is though, again maybe slightly overpowered. But not enough to lose a turret slot in exchange for a neut. It's an active tanking ship it doesn't need more cap pressure to put on itself.
Rather then calling for a Super-nerf on cruisers. What about a buff to CBC's?
Will agree the the Gila/Worm are OP, though. Gila can sling 1000dps with a bling fit. D= hardly a supernerf, just toning down some of the very strong dps cruisers too more reasonable dps levels .. try fitting a VNI with ogres and 2 blasters 3 DDA's and you'll see just how much dps you can get.. Deimos , i was thinking more a Nos too help its cap, with a small damage buff too compensate some dps loss. Notice how there are no amarr or minmatar ships in my list.. what about the cerberus then? can get same dps as deimos and apply it to way better ranges also needs nerf hammer no?
i love the constant massive exaggerations too try and justify a point.. knocking something down a peg to where it belongs is hardly anywhere near a nerf hammer.. but yes cerb is also a little strong with projection and dps.. but even with 700dps it hardly applies it aswell as a deimos and is stuck with kinetic only, although HAM's having the same range as torps isn't right and will be fixed at some point surely..
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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Lugia3
The Southern Gentleman's Social Club Easily Excited
1402
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 22:15:24 -
[49] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Zavand Crendraven wrote:Harvey James wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:Cruisers are actually pretty fine where they are. The VNI might do it's job to well, but it's certainly not on the levels how you are putting it.
For the most part, HAC's fill the role just fine. The Deimos probably one of the better ones, and the Eagle being probably the worst. I think the Deimos does just fine as is though, again maybe slightly overpowered. But not enough to lose a turret slot in exchange for a neut. It's an active tanking ship it doesn't need more cap pressure to put on itself.
Rather then calling for a Super-nerf on cruisers. What about a buff to CBC's?
Will agree the the Gila/Worm are OP, though. Gila can sling 1000dps with a bling fit. D= hardly a supernerf, just toning down some of the very strong dps cruisers too more reasonable dps levels .. try fitting a VNI with ogres and 2 blasters 3 DDA's and you'll see just how much dps you can get.. Deimos , i was thinking more a Nos too help its cap, with a small damage buff too compensate some dps loss. Notice how there are no amarr or minmatar ships in my list.. what about the cerberus then? can get same dps as deimos and apply it to way better ranges also needs nerf hammer no? i love the constant massive exaggerations too try and justify a point.. knocking something down a peg to where it belongs is hardly anywhere near a nerf hammer.. but yes cerb is also a little strong with projection and dps.. but even with 700dps it hardly applies it aswell as a deimos and is stuck with kinetic only, although HAM's having the same range as torps isn't right and will be fixed at some point surely..
Cerb has 0 projection issues. It can hit out to long range doing good dps on smallish targets. If you want to wax frigs, fit rapid lights and you become a mobile no-fly zone for small ships. Meanwhile the Deimos has to be within 5km to do any damage whatsoever.
Pro tip: The Deimos is also restricted to kinetic/thermal damage.
Do you even Eve?
"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Remove Sov!
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14069
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 01:02:29 -
[50] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:Quote:hardly a supernerf, just toning down some of the very strong dps cruisers too more reasonable dps levels .. try fitting a VNI with ogres and 2 blasters 3 DDA's and you'll see just how much dps you can get.. Deimos , i was thinking more a Nos too help its cap, with a small damage buff too compensate some dps loss.
Notice how there are no amarr or minmatar ships in my list.. Yeah a Vexor would get a pretty sick DPS. But your not going to have a tank at that point. And I really don't care that you didn't mention Amarr or Minmatar ships, What was the point of mentioning it in the first place? I never said anything about them. And again, Why do you insist on Nerfing Cruiser just because CBC's are flimsy? A HAC SHOULD beat a CBC. Even if CBC's where decent.
A well fit brutix vs a well fit diemost will see the brutix win. Both will slug it out at the same range and both get a rep bonus but the brutix gets more firepower and meat to its tank. Then there is the myrm, a damn fine solo BC. CBC are far from helpless like the OP tries to make out.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Viribus
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
337
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 01:10:31 -
[51] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:A well fit brutix vs a well fit diemost will see the brutix win. Both will slug it out at the same range and both get a rep bonus but the brutix gets more firepower and meat to its tank. Then there is the myrm, a damn fine solo BC. CBC are far from helpless like the OP tries to make out.
you're kidding right?
the deimos tanks harder, has T2 resists that directly counter blasters, has way better passive cap, and with the falloff bonus it can just click "keep @ range: 5000m" and out-dps the brutix with the same guns
the utility high on the brutix might be useful if it actually had the grid to use it
there isn't a universe in which the brutix beats the deimos
watch me be a scurb and get owned
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14069
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 01:19:19 -
[52] - Quote
Viribus wrote:baltec1 wrote:A well fit brutix vs a well fit diemost will see the brutix win. Both will slug it out at the same range and both get a rep bonus but the brutix gets more firepower and meat to its tank. Then there is the myrm, a damn fine solo BC. CBC are far from helpless like the OP tries to make out. you're kidding right? the deimos tanks harder, has T2 resists that directly counter blasters, has way better passive cap, and with the falloff bonus it can just click "keep @ range: 5000m" and out-dps the brutix with the same guns the utility high on the brutix might be useful if it actually had the grid to use it there isn't a universe in which the brutix beats the deimos
You have more than enough grid for a med neut and at 5k the deimos is dictating nothing. Brutix makes use of its firepower advantage and neut to bring down the cap hungry deimos.
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Iudicium Vastus
Incognito Holdings and Savings
313
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 02:27:58 -
[53] - Quote
I love how outside a few pirate hulls, it's Gallente T1 hulls largely on his chopping block. You do know, high DPS is sorta the thing for Gallente ships right.
[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just..
-Fit more points
-Fit faction points
-Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
69
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Posted - 2014.12.02 03:02:01 -
[54] - Quote
Do not like the OP idea. There may be some truth to parts of it but as a whole it seems more like an emotional reaction to ships he has lost fights to, or has trouble with when he fights them.
A couple of questions come to mind here. What part of the problems that you see are based on skills and not the ships themselves? What part of the problems you see are based on modules used?
Now to these.
BadAssMcKill wrote:Yea the rattlesnake sure needs to be worse than it is now They messed it up pretty bad and these proposed changes would make it about worthless.
Syrias Bizniz wrote:Ishtar needs a nerf. Not sure if this should be by nerfing the Ishtar itself or changing Sentries. For example i don't understand why Sentries, as a weapon system that is more in the BS range than in Cruiser / BC, have a 125m Signature Resolution. This one is easy, so let's look at some numbers. Since Gallente seems to be the hot race here let's use them as our examples
Incursus Mass = 1,028,000 kg Volume = 29,500 m3 Signature radius = 42
Garde T2 Mass = 12,000 kg Volume = 25 m3 Signature radius = 100
The Garde have roughly 1.2% of the mass The Garde occupy roughly .09% of the volume Yet there signature radius is 140% larger
Not sure how or why CCP set them this way, my only guess would be that because of their small size they do not have the shielding and damping on their electronic systems so they are more detectable.
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Viribus
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
337
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 03:48:36 -
[55] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: You have more than enough grid for a med neut and at 5k the deimos is dictating nothing. Brutix makes use of its firepower advantage and neut to bring down the cap hungry deimos.
i'm kind of impressed you can fit so many misconceptions into such a short post
Quote:You have more than enough grid for a med neut
if you downgrade half your guns to electrons, giving you the same DPS as a Deimos with even more pathetic range
Quote:at 5k the deimos is dictating nothing
??? Except range? This is baffling. The deimos has like 50% greater base speed than a brutix so if they're both web/scrammed the deimos is absolutely dictating range over an extended fight.
Quote:firepower advantage
Not if you fit a neut and even if you don't, it's like 10% better than a deimos with drones factored in. Oh and the deimos can tank all of a brutix's guns with a single MAR II, without links or drugs. I guess you forgot about that whole "t2 resists" thing
The brutix is even more cap-hungry, since it needs to run its reps harder to tank the same damage, and has to run a 6th gun. The brutix would just shoot itself in the foot with a neut
You really could not be more wrong. Can you please post some examples of how you would fit a Brutix and Deimos because I'm genuinely curious where you get these bizarre ideas from.
watch me be a scurb and get owned
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14071
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 04:26:51 -
[56] - Quote
Fit an afterburner to the brutix. No more fitting issues, no downgraded weapons, no cap issues and in web and scram range it will be moving faster than the now mwd-less deimos.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Viribus
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
337
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 04:42:24 -
[57] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Fit an afterburner to the brutix. No more fitting issues, no downgraded weapons, no cap issues and in web and scram range it will be moving faster than the now mwd-less deimos.
why can't the deimos also fit an AB? I mean as long as we're in fantasy-land where you don't have to worry about little things like "being able to go faster than 500m/s"
jesus christ I can see why you're having trouble understanding things like "t2 resists" if you think an AB brutix is a good idea
watch me be a scurb and get owned
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
6661
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 04:43:56 -
[58] - Quote
*fits up a Brutix and Deimos with similar setups* *looks at the numbers*
Iono... it's a toss up between the two.
The Brutix has more than double the ehp and can rep slightly more than the Diemos (due to the third rig slot)... the Deimos has a slight DPS and range advantage (thanks to its bonuses).
But then there is that medium neutralizer on the Brutix... even with a cap booster fit the Deimos is going to have trouble while running a repper, guns, and tackle at the same time (the Brutix has less of an issue because it has more than double the raw capacitor power of the Deimos).
The Deimos can pull range, sure... but at that point the Deimos is in half-falloff and doing less overall dps... and the Brutix can counter by loading Null ammo to hit out exactly at 5000m.
The Deimos can also load Null ammo and pull even more range... but only at the cost of losing even more dps and running the risk of losing tackle past 7 to 8,000m
And then we come back to that nasty energy neutralizer on the Brutix which has a range of 12,000m.
tldr: the Deimos is going to have fly VERY smart in order to kill a competent Brutix pilot... because in a straight brawl the Brutix wins through sheer staying power and utility.
Now a RAILGUN-fit Deimos... that is a different story entirely. That will beat a Brutix (albeit, slowly).
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Viribus
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
337
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 04:45:10 -
[59] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:*fits up a Brutix and Deimos with similar setups*
*misses the 90% kinetic resists on a deimos*
watch me be a scurb and get owned
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
6661
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 04:48:43 -
[60] - Quote
Deimos has less raw armor. 90% resistance is meaningless if there isn't enough HP to absorb the incoming damage... especially when the capacitor starts running dry.
The Brutix does the exact opposite of this by having lower resistances, but more raw HP and an extra rig slot for extra repping power (2x auxillary nano pump rigs + 1 nanobot accelerator)
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Viribus
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
337
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Posted - 2014.12.02 04:54:46 -
[61] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Deimos has less raw armor. 90% resistance is meaningless
oh my god
no way there's someone this dumb
i feel like i'm taking crazy pills
you realize we're talking about active tanks, right? and a deimos can tank a brutix with just one rep
meanwhile the brutix has to run both is reps hard just to keep up with the deimos. It's going to cap itself out before neuting out the deimos. Deimos can run a single rep and its guns just fine while being neuted
PS similarly-fit deimoses and brutixes have nearly equal EHP versus blasters
watch me be a scurb and get owned
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
6661
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 05:04:42 -
[62] - Quote
Apologies... I didn't check the antimatter damage profile in EFT.
The Brutix and Deimos fit I have loaded in EFT are both running a single rep. And even with the Antimatter damage profile loaded the numbers are still close (within 50 to 90 dps)
I still stand by what I said earlier though; the Brutix's neut is going to, at best, make life VERY difficult for the Deimos and, at worst, **** it up. The Deimos NEEDS to pull range quickly or it will just be ground down.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14071
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 05:07:21 -
[63] - Quote
Viribus wrote:
why can't the deimos also fit an AB?
Because people will want to use that bonus to MWD the deimos gets and most people wont even think about an AB being an option. You didn't.
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Lugia3
The Southern Gentleman's Social Club Easily Excited
1404
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 05:08:37 -
[64] - Quote
Viribus wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:Deimos has less raw armor. 90% resistance is meaningless oh my god no way there's someone this dumb i feel like i'm taking crazy pills you realize we're talking about active tanks, right? and a deimos can tank a brutix with just one rep meanwhile the brutix has to run both is reps hard just to keep up with the deimos. It's going to cap itself out before neuting out the deimos. Deimos can run a single rep and its guns just fine while being neuted PS similarly-fit deimoses and brutixes have nearly equal EHP versus blasters
Now put said Deimos up against a Hurricane Fleet Issue. Or the Brutix against an Apocalypse.
Easy to make the Deimos look strong and Brutix look weak when you're putting the Brutix right into the Deimos' resist strengths.
"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Remove Sov!
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Viribus
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
337
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 05:33:18 -
[65] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:I still stand by what I said earlier though; the Brutix's neut is going to, at best, make life VERY difficult for the Deimos and, at worst, **** it up. The Deimos NEEDS to pull range quickly or it will just be ground down.
the only thing the brutix's neut is going to make life difficult for is the brutix. It needs that cap way more than the deimos does
baltec1 wrote:Because people will want to use that bonus to MWD the deimos gets and most people wont even think about an AB being an option. You didn't.
I didn't because both the brutix and deimos desperately need the mobility an MWD offers, unless you think people are just gonna hit approach on a blaster ship (they will not)
Also, it's idiotic goalpost-shifting to suppose the brutix has an AB and the deimos doesn't. Especially since an AB would be way better on a deimos anyway, since it actually has the ability to speedtank things
Lugia3 wrote:Now put said Deimos up against a Hurricane Fleet Issue. Or the Brutix against an Apocalypse.
Easy to make the Deimos look strong and Brutix look weak when you're putting the Brutix right into the Deimos' resist strengths.
guess what
it wasn't my stupid idea to come up with a theoretical brutix-vs-deimos 1v1
especially since anyone with half a brain could predict the outcome of that fight
watch me be a scurb and get owned
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14072
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 05:45:28 -
[66] - Quote
Viribus wrote:
I didn't because both the brutix and deimos desperately need the mobility an MWD offers, unless you think people are just gonna hit approach on a blaster ship (they will not)
Also, it's idiotic goalpost-shifting to suppose the brutix has an AB and the deimos doesn't. Especially since an AB would be way better on a deimos anyway, since it actually has the ability to speedtank things
No, it doesn't desperately need a mwd. Hell, most brutix's don't even bother using an armour rep, they just slap on a shield buffer and go with a gang of tackle frigs as heavy and very mobile DPS.
The deimos gets a bonus to MWD not AB so no, its not better off with the AB. Its also not a case of shifting the goalposts as I was always on about using an AB brutix which has the fitting room for the neut.
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Viribus
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
337
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 05:52:07 -
[67] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:[No, it doesn't desperately need a mwd. Hell, most brutix's don't even bother using an armour rep, they just slap on a shield buffer and go with a gang of tackle frigs as heavy and very mobile DPS.
i think we have wildly different definitions of "very mobile"
Quote:The deimos gets a bonus to MWD not AB so no, its not better off with the AB.
what?
a ship with half the signature and nearly double the speed is worse off with an AB? you know the brutix doesn't get an AB bonus, right?
(hint: they both suck with an AB, but the deimos sucks less)
Quote:Its also not a case of shifting the goalposts as I was always on about using an AB brutix which has the fitting room for the neut.
doesn't matter really anyway, MWD or AB the brutix would lose to a deimos 120% of the time
also AB battlecruisers are laughably bad
as in I'm literally laughing right now
watch me be a scurb and get owned
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14072
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 06:05:59 -
[68] - Quote
Viribus wrote:
i think we have wildly different definitions of "very mobile"
1500m/s from a med gun, 830 dps BC is now apparently slow.
Viribus wrote: what?
a ship with half the signature and nearly double the speed is worse off with an AB? you know the brutix doesn't get an AB bonus, right?
(hint: they both suck with an AB, but the deimos sucks less)
Deimos has the bonus to the mwd is what I was getting at. People don't like sacrificing that bonus and as you just demonstrated, they automatically think faster = better. That speed means nothing when you have to enter scram/web range to do your damage and your target ship has the exact same range but more firepower and a neut.
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Viribus
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
337
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 06:17:55 -
[69] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:1500m/s from a med gun, 830 dps BC is now apparently slow.
A nano brutix does like 1350, unless you're shifting goalposts again and assuming links
Quote:Deimos has the bonus to the mwd is what I was getting at. People don't like sacrificing that bonus and as you just demonstrated, they automatically think faster = better.
if you want to actually catch anything instead of sitting on a gate and spamming "fight me pls" in local then yeah, an MWD is better
Quote:That speed means nothing when you have to enter scram/web range to do your damage
however it does matter a lot for actually entering scram/web range
or running gatecamps
or burning out of bubbles
or any of the other uses for MWDs that apparently don't exist in whatever bizzaro EVE you're playing
Quote:and your target ship has the exact same range but more firepower and a neut.
less range
slightly more firepower
and a neut that hurts the brutix more than the deimos, because (and you've completely glossed over this) T2 resists allow the deimos to tank the brutix on just one rep, while the brutix needs both to tank the deimos
how are you still not understanding this. Neuts hurt on both ends, you seem to think it's some sort of magical anathema to any active tank when it really isn't, especially when it's fit to a ship that already has cap problems
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
6662
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 06:32:03 -
[70] - Quote
Post your fits. I have a feeling you are running some terribad Brutix fit against a really gimmiky Deimos fit just to make your point.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14073
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 06:35:38 -
[71] - Quote
Viribus wrote:
A nano brutix does like 1350, unless you're shifting goalposts again and assuming links
Nanofibers, how do they work?
Viribus wrote:
if you want to actually catch anything instead of sitting on a gate and spamming "fight me pls" in local then yeah, an MWD is better
Remind us again on the engagement range of a blaster deimos.
Viribus wrote: however it does matter a lot for actually entering scram/web range or running gatecamps
or burning out of bubbles
or any of the other uses for MWDs that apparently don't exist in whatever bizzaro EVE you're playing
Oh no, a mod has some drawbacks and requires a different style of piloting. Thank god MWD have zero issues unless they get shut down by anything with a scram.
Quote:and your target ship has the exact same range but more firepower and a neut.
less range
slightly more firepower
and a neut that hurts the brutix more than the deimos, because (and you've completely glossed over this) T2 resists allow the deimos to tank the brutix on just one rep, while the brutix needs both to tank the deimos
how are you still not understanding this. Neuts hurt on both ends, you seem to think it's some sort of magical anathema to any active tank when it really isn't, especially when it's fit to a ship that already has cap problems[/quote]
Cap is stable at 67% on the brutix with the neut running so long as you have cap boosters. The deimos will run out of hull before you run out of cap in the brutix. Your extra range amounts to a mighty 2km more falloff with antimatter, a distance covered in less time than the refire rate of the guns.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14073
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 06:45:42 -
[72] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Post your fits. I have a feeling you are running some terribad Brutix fit against a really gimmiky Deimos fit just to make your point.
Bog standard fits actually.
The problem here is we have people who never fit ships for themselves and thus, have no idea how things work. This whole thread is an example of why CCP ignores most posts around here, these people simply don't know how to use the tools they have been given to make ships work.
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Viribus
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
337
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 06:51:59 -
[73] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:The problem here is we have people who never fit ships for themselves and thus, have no idea how things work. This whole thread is an example of why CCP ignores most posts around here, these people simply don't know how to use the tools they have been given to make ships work.
boy you have no idea how right you are, for once
i can't believe i spent a portion of my finite lifespan arguing with someone who thinks AB brutixes are good
watch me be a scurb and get owned
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14073
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 06:56:42 -
[74] - Quote
Viribus wrote:baltec1 wrote:The problem here is we have people who never fit ships for themselves and thus, have no idea how things work. This whole thread is an example of why CCP ignores most posts around here, these people simply don't know how to use the tools they have been given to make ships work. boy you have no idea how right you are, for once i can't believe i spent a portion of my finite lifespan arguing with someone who thinks AB brutixes are good
Case in point.
I even had to tell you to use nanos on a ship you called a nano brutix.
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Viribus
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
337
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 07:01:54 -
[75] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: Case in point.
I even had to tell you to use nanos on a ship you called a nano brutix.
1350 is with a nano, genius
pvp master of GSF right here
watch me be a scurb and get owned
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14073
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 07:07:42 -
[76] - Quote
Viribus wrote:baltec1 wrote: Case in point.
I even had to tell you to use nanos on a ship you called a nano brutix.
1350 is with a nano, genius pvp master of GSF right here
Yet here I am looking at 1500.
You are messing it up somehow, are you fitting plates?
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Viribus
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
337
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 07:22:37 -
[77] - Quote
you need 3 nanos to break 1500
and using half your lows for nanos is just... a level of badness i didn't think possible
watch me be a scurb and get owned
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Ceawlin Cobon-Han
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
39
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 07:32:24 -
[78] - Quote
OP is suffering from survivor guilt. He has seen all his comrades fall while his Gallente ship survived and thrived. This has led him to believe his ship is unworthy and that all Gallente craft need to be gimped to enable the enemy to destroy him.
Nerfing Gallente is not the answer; therapy is. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14073
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 07:43:11 -
[79] - Quote
Viribus wrote:you need 3 nanos to break 1500
and using half your lows for nanos is just... a level of badness i didn't think possible Two nanos. Also using nanos in the lows is very common.
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King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
290
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 09:12:34 -
[80] - Quote
Let's also nerf all the ships that:
- are faster than other ships - are tankier than other ships - have more range than other ships - have some bonuses that other ships don't have - look different - have different names
also, Brutix is ****
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Jacid
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
60
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 10:16:34 -
[81] - Quote
Not to add to this whine fest but i just want to point out that a brutix costs 60 million or so for the hull and the demios 140 or more. I consider that fair exchange for the brutix being at a slight disadvantage (possibly debatable)
Vexors and NVI are terribly weakly tanked when shield tanked.
Although I do think drones need to be looked at. The issue boils down to the fact that they must fit in all hull types. Unlike the rest of the weapon systems in the game where hull bonuses are tied to weapons sizes. I always felt drones need to be more fragile to counter their power and bonuses to drone hitpoints need to be removed from hulls.
You might also remove drone bandwidth and control range. Then make drones like the rest of the weapon systems with a cycle time, and overheating. The difference would be that drones have flight time like missiles and also a recall time when the weapon system stops cycle.
But that's really for a different thread... |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1006
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 13:56:58 -
[82] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:Quote:hardly a supernerf, just toning down some of the very strong dps cruisers too more reasonable dps levels .. try fitting a VNI with ogres and 2 blasters 3 DDA's and you'll see just how much dps you can get.. Deimos , i was thinking more a Nos too help its cap, with a small damage buff too compensate some dps loss.
Notice how there are no amarr or minmatar ships in my list.. Yeah a Vexor would get a pretty sick DPS. But your not going to have a tank at that point. And I really don't care that you didn't mention Amarr or Minmatar ships, What was the point of mentioning it in the first place? I never said anything about them. And again, Why do you insist on Nerfing Cruiser just because CBC's are flimsy? A HAC SHOULD beat a CBC. Even if CBC's where decent. A well fit brutix vs a well fit diemost will see the brutix win. Both will slug it out at the same range and both get a rep bonus but the brutix gets more firepower and meat to its tank. Then there is the myrm, a damn fine solo BC. CBC are far from helpless like the OP tries to make out.
i didnt try too make out they were helpless in any way, merely that i felt there are plenty of cruiser options that can do a better job than CBC's out there , with just as strong dps or higher, which is a little at odds with the supposed trade offs the different hulls are meant too make, disregarding cost as CCP has said its not a balancing factor.
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1006
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 13:59:09 -
[83] - Quote
Lugia3 wrote:Harvey James wrote:Zavand Crendraven wrote:Harvey James wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote:Cruisers are actually pretty fine where they are. The VNI might do it's job to well, but it's certainly not on the levels how you are putting it.
For the most part, HAC's fill the role just fine. The Deimos probably one of the better ones, and the Eagle being probably the worst. I think the Deimos does just fine as is though, again maybe slightly overpowered. But not enough to lose a turret slot in exchange for a neut. It's an active tanking ship it doesn't need more cap pressure to put on itself.
Rather then calling for a Super-nerf on cruisers. What about a buff to CBC's?
Will agree the the Gila/Worm are OP, though. Gila can sling 1000dps with a bling fit. D= hardly a supernerf, just toning down some of the very strong dps cruisers too more reasonable dps levels .. try fitting a VNI with ogres and 2 blasters 3 DDA's and you'll see just how much dps you can get.. Deimos , i was thinking more a Nos too help its cap, with a small damage buff too compensate some dps loss. Notice how there are no amarr or minmatar ships in my list.. what about the cerberus then? can get same dps as deimos and apply it to way better ranges also needs nerf hammer no? i love the constant massive exaggerations too try and justify a point.. knocking something down a peg to where it belongs is hardly anywhere near a nerf hammer.. but yes cerb is also a little strong with projection and dps.. but even with 700dps it hardly applies it aswell as a deimos and is stuck with kinetic only, although HAM's having the same range as torps isn't right and will be fixed at some point surely.. Cerb has 0 projection issues. It can hit out to long range doing good dps on smallish targets. If you want to wax frigs, fit rapid lights and you become a mobile no-fly zone for small ships. Meanwhile the Deimos has to be within 5km to do any damage whatsoever. Pro tip: The Deimos is also restricted to kinetic/thermal damage. Do you even Eve?
mm... rapid lights are a different story of brokeness that should have been deleted.. and i think you are disregarding the range possibilities the deimos has as either blaster or rail fitted..
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14074
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 14:54:21 -
[84] - Quote
Harvey James wrote: i didnt try too make out they were helpless in any way, merely that i felt there are plenty of cruiser options that can do a better job than CBC's out there , with just as strong dps or higher, which is a little at odds with the supposed trade offs the different hulls are meant too make, disregarding cost as CCP has said its not a balancing factor.
But as has been shown the brutix will out damage the deimos while sporting a good deal more buffer and it is far from sluggish. The deimos is a fine cruiser but it does not invalidate the brutix.We then have the likes of the myrm and the cane which are both nice ships. CBCs are not out classed here.
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
1006
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 15:14:22 -
[85] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Harvey James wrote: i didnt try too make out they were helpless in any way, merely that i felt there are plenty of cruiser options that can do a better job than CBC's out there , with just as strong dps or higher, which is a little at odds with the supposed trade offs the different hulls are meant too make, disregarding cost as CCP has said its not a balancing factor.
But as has been shown the brutix will out damage the deimos while sporting a good deal more buffer and it is far from sluggish. The deimos is a fine cruiser but it does not invalidate the brutix.We then have the likes of the myrm and the cane which are both nice ships. CBCs are not out classed here.
alright so in some cases the deimos might not win a fight against CBC's... it is maybe more a case edge like i said , but things like the gila, VNI etc would win
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
118
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 17:19:04 -
[86] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:baltec1 wrote:Harvey James wrote: i didnt try too make out they were helpless in any way, merely that i felt there are plenty of cruiser options that can do a better job than CBC's out there , with just as strong dps or higher, which is a little at odds with the supposed trade offs the different hulls are meant too make, disregarding cost as CCP has said its not a balancing factor.
But as has been shown the brutix will out damage the deimos while sporting a good deal more buffer and it is far from sluggish. The deimos is a fine cruiser but it does not invalidate the brutix.We then have the likes of the myrm and the cane which are both nice ships. CBCs are not out classed here. alright so in some cases the deimos might not win a fight against CBC's... it is maybe more a case edge like i said , but things like the gila, VNI etc would win
ya you have take the next step to faction or pirate to get it done |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14074
|
Posted - 2014.12.02 17:41:25 -
[87] - Quote
Pirate ships are meant to be powerful but they are not invincible. A ship with a smartbomb is going to cause issues for example.
As a side note, the CBCs can fit 100mn MWD to hit speeds of over 4k and are able to fit a full rack of guns, tackle, a probe launcher and a bit more than a token tank. Gimicky yes but having a BC chasing down frigates is a rather funny thing to see.
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