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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2637
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:31:08 -
[691] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: What we have now is a bore-off. How can this new system be any worse? We're already at 100% at the boredometer for stagnant null and structure shoots.
our discussion is not about if this or dominion is better, it's if this system is better with or without bore-offs. we are discussing how to improve this system and given that you agree that bore-offs are bad it seems we should both agree that "well you can counter this by doing something equally or more boring so nobody has fun" is not really a great design philosophy Sure, but I don't agree that interceptors lead to a bore off.
Honestly, I think it's a triumph of game design that so many people still froth at the mouth from the mere mention of the ceptor. Fozzie done good. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6576
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:31:55 -
[692] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: What we have now is a bore-off. How can this new system be any worse? We're already at 100% at the boredometer for stagnant null and structure shoots.
our discussion is not about if this or dominion is better, it's if this system is better with or without bore-offs. we are discussing how to improve this system and given that you agree that bore-offs are bad it seems we should both agree that "well you can counter this by doing something equally or more boring so nobody has fun" is not really a great design philosophy Bore-offs are amazing. If more of sov was like that then perhaps there would be less sov
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH Mordus Angels
67
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:31:59 -
[693] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:MASSADEATH wrote: No I think it opens up options to smaller groups... perhaps on the level of... you roll thru our SOV with your blob fleet.... we RF 20 of your systems ..basically an eye, for 2 legs a hand and 2 ears
you don't have sov, and still won't that said it is hilarious how much you're whining over your pos getting sieged
we dont care about structures..my point was the size of force being used ..blow em up....whoo hoo... its all you can do..
the real fear you have is how the new mechanics render your blob fleets useless...in the defence area
there still is no solution for the blob fleet when attacking
any small entity that "tries" (in futility) to hold sov...will just have it removed by one of these large blob fleets..we have no delusions about that. Other than the fun and fights taking and losing it.
what it does change however is we can at least at the minimum now disrupt and deny yours as well, where as the current system does not allow for that.. perhaps it will create negotiations for some groups
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
858
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:32:40 -
[694] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:All these proponents of the system keep thinking in terms of a 1v1. "I counter your off-grid boosted trollceptor with my Cerberus and my cyno alt in a Maulus."
Yes, Dominion sovereignty might not be perfect, but it is a damn site better than the above. The offensive power of Fozzie Sovereignty is completely out of balance. The defender has to be able to defend everywhere, but has no opportunity to fortify or entrench his position.
Some might say, "but the same thing will happen now!" This is simply untrue. For one, in Dominion, the offense has to commit significant assets to stage an attack. Yes, if someone brings fifty supers to the fight, A may have a problem. But if fifty supers come to the fight, A can request help from friendly alliance C and we get a big fight, or a massive blue-ball fest (that at least has the advantage of only being once, not every day). In Fozzieland, if C tries to help A against B, D will entosis C's stuff. And don't forget that anyone who comes to help probably gets Space Aids. Thank you, Fozzie. Your example is flawed for several reasons: 1.) Small alliance A doesn't hold space in the current sov system. Perhaps big brother coalition C gives them a system (for a fee), but they will never truly own space unless they themselves can bring a huge force to attack. 2.) Alliance A is the underdog, and will lose space against bigger B. So what. They can then attempt to take it back, especially if alliance B doesn't bother to utilize it. Currently, if Big Bad Alliance B takes your sov, you can't do **** about it. 3.) With the 48 hour reinforcement window, Alliance A can call in all the backup they want. It's only a minor change in tactics for them to have an alliance A member in each backup fleet.
(1) Alliance A can hold space in the current system, with big brother coalition C's support. The fee is paid in military service.
(2) Then how are small alliances going to gain a foothold? They cannot. They will get roflstomped by anyone large enough to want to destroy their stuff.
(3) Alliance A calls for backup from Alliance C. Alliance C moves pilots over. Now honorable third parties D, E, and F, join the fun and hit C's space while they are away. D, E, and F risk nothing, because they come from NPC space or low sec. Or from a coalition so large that it can send off a bunch of pilots during prime time.
In short, you will have a lot of stuff burn after this patch. Nothing will be rebuilt. Coalitions will hold the money moons and one or two critical areas where they continue to build supercapitals. Everyone else will get burned out of space in short order. Low sec and NPC nullsec are the real beneficiaries of the new system. The existing coalitions will become larger and more powerful, but 0.0 space on the whole will be more empty.
Unless of course, 800k new subscribers suddenly decide to start playing tomorrow and the PCU goes up to 100k. Which all trends indicate won't happen.
The Greatest Ship Ever. Credit to Shahfluffers.
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SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
70
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:33:22 -
[695] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:SilentAsTheGrave wrote:Here is what I don't understand:
Why are people taking sov of a system they don't want to be active in during their prime time?
Someone please tell me the logic behind that. There's a few reasons I can see - resource availability, like moons, or buffer zones, for example. Border Marches have a long history, after all, along with the 'good fences make good neighbors' idea. Or constellation/region choke points. Just because you want to hold an area to exploit its strategic value and resources doesn't mean you want to live there - or that it's capable of supporting efforts to live there. At the same time, there should be ways to make use of that space that actually count as making use of that space, if it's something you're holding for military/industrial value, not residential, if you will. Paying the pilots from the war chest to be active in these systems is out of the question? |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
647
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:33:28 -
[696] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote: Sure, but I don't agree that interceptors lead to a bore off.]
yes but your stubborn refusal to admit reality is not an argument, it's just you sticking your fingers in your ears and posting loudly
every solution to interceptors proposed by the "how dare you make me risk a ship" crew leads inexorably to a bore-off because there is no other means of stopping interceptor raids because the ships are not at risk unless the pilot passes out |
Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
343
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:33:30 -
[697] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Sure, but I don't agree that interceptors lead to a bore off. Interceptors when used to try and troll people leads to a bore off which is considerably (upto a factor of 4 times) worse for the people attempting said troll, if used against a suitably prepared defender.
Was, I believe, the final result against the perl script. |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
647
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:34:16 -
[698] - Quote
SilentAsTheGrave wrote: Paying the pilots from the war chest to be active in these systems is out of the question?
why would we want the game to reward unfun bore-offs where you have to pay people to play the game |
Liam Inkuras
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
1480
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:35:21 -
[699] - Quote
This thread went downhill following page 1, and is now just repeated sperging.
Pls stop
I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
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Acuma
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:36:29 -
[700] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Sure, but I don't agree that interceptors lead to a bore off. Interceptors when used to try and troll people lead to a bore off which is considerably (upto a factor of 4 times) worse for the people attempting said troll, if used against a suitably prepared defender. Was, I believe, the final result against the perl script.
+1
It takes one ship 2 minutes to counter a trollceptor......not to mention as you stated you can waste around 35 minutes of their time before doing so. Then it's off to the next system where another frigate does the same things......mmmmm fun stuff! |
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2638
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:37:03 -
[701] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: Sure, but I don't agree that interceptors lead to a bore off.]
yes but your stubborn refusal to admit reality is not an argument, it's just you sticking your fingers in your ears and posting loudly every solution to interceptors proposed by the "how dare you make me risk a ship" crew leads inexorably to a bore-off because there is no other means of stopping interceptor raids because the ships are not at risk unless the pilot passes out And your stubborn claim that everyone shares your particular views of "Grrrrrrr In-terrr-sep-torrrrrrrr, Grrrrrrrr," or that those views are correct, make for humorous reading material.
Obligatory: Grrrrrrr In-terrr-sep-torrrrrrrr, Grrrrrrrr. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
608
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:37:09 -
[702] - Quote
Liam Inkuras wrote:This thread went downhill following page 1, and is now just repeated sperging.
Pls stop ccp taking a stand on the entosis module's exact fitting and restrictions (if any) would stop the thread dead |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3210
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:37:13 -
[703] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: The funny thing is, from reading some of the posts against this system, one gets the impression that it's you guys that don't want to commit a single cruiser to defend a constellation.
we're not afraid to use the cruiser because shooting your ship would entail placing ours at risk what we do not want is a bore-off What we have now is a bore-off. How can this new system be any worse? We're already at 100% at the boredometer for stagnant null and structure shoots. ... I remember that just before the last sov change, people were saying "The current system is terrible! Change it, anything is better than the current system!" After the change those same people posted: "I was wrong. This is worse." The boreometer is not anywhere close to 100%. It can always get worse. What we need to do here, now, is see that it does not.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6577
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:37:27 -
[704] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:SilentAsTheGrave wrote: Paying the pilots from the war chest to be active in these systems is out of the question?
why would we want the game to reward unfun bore-offs where you have to pay people to play the game All it means is that to kill the coalitions you need to nerf their income so that the bore-offs will lead to their bankrupcy and then collapse
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
608
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:37:56 -
[705] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:EvilweaselFinance wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: Sure, but I don't agree that interceptors lead to a bore off.]
yes but your stubborn refusal to admit reality is not an argument, it's just you sticking your fingers in your ears and posting loudly every solution to interceptors proposed by the "how dare you make me risk a ship" crew leads inexorably to a bore-off because there is no other means of stopping interceptor raids because the ships are not at risk unless the pilot passes out And your stubborn claim that everyone shares your particular views of "Grrrrrrr In-terrr-sep-torrrrrrrr, Grrrrrrrr," or that those views are correct, make for humorous reading material. Obligatory: Grrrrrrr In-terrr-sep-torrrrrrrr, Grrrrrrrr. unfortunately for you they are objectively correct |
Sougiro Seta
We are not bad. Just unlucky Goonswarm Federation
19
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:38:42 -
[706] - Quote
What MASSADEATH pretends is somehow like Cuba invading USA. You blame a group of people for being more organized, more rich and, basically, more people than your group. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2638
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:39:00 -
[707] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote: unfortunately for you they are objectively correct
Prove it.
Obligatory: Grrrrrrr In-terrr-sep-torrrrrrrr, Grrrrrrrr. |
Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
344
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:39:22 -
[708] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:unfortunately for you they are objectively correct Please remind me how your 42 minutes orbitting a structure in your trollceptor isn't undone by 12 minutes of me in a maulus?
Oh right, we wrecked you a few pages back, why come back for more?
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6577
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:39:37 -
[709] - Quote
No one really cares... the bar will have to be set pretty low to allow the moa 0.0 fantasy to occur
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
608
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:39:57 -
[710] - Quote
interceptor disengages and goes to new objective
it cannot be killed |
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
649
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:40:06 -
[711] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote: And your stubborn claim that everyone shares your particular views of "Grrrrrrr In-terrr-sep-torrrrrrrr, Grrrrrrrr," or that those views are correct, make for humorous reading material.
my claim is backed up by unrefuted argument: yours is backed up by "well i don't believe it". nobody cares what color you believe the sky is, and your insistent belief it is red does not do much besides make bad posts |
Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
344
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:40:26 -
[712] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:interceptor disengages and goes to new objective
it cannot be killed Didn't want those 42 minutes anyways? |
progodlegend
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
181
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:41:17 -
[713] - Quote
Gorski Car wrote:There are so many things you can do to counter trollceptors I cant help but think that this is a vocal minority overreacting and creating doomsday scenarios.
You're considering this from the perspective of an individual grid or even an individual engagement. But from the perspective of someone who most run an alliance, and choose how much daily stress to put their alliance under, it's an entirely different thought process.
There are counters to everything. There are counters to Ishtars, there are counters to tengu fleet, there were even counters to carrier assigned fighters which you seemed to hate so much. Just because something has a counter doesn't mean that the risk vs. reward aspect is balanced for both the attacker and the defender.
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
649
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:41:49 -
[714] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: unfortunately for you they are objectively correct
Prove it. Obligatory: Grrrrrrr In-terrr-sep-torrrrrrrr, Grrrrrrrr. we have
you can look at our posts, or you can look at yours: either proves beyond a shadow of a doubt we are correct
like you don't have to even see anything we've posted to know the guy posting your post is wrong |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2638
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:42:28 -
[715] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: And your stubborn claim that everyone shares your particular views of "Grrrrrrr In-terrr-sep-torrrrrrrr, Grrrrrrrr," or that those views are correct, make for humorous reading material.
my claim is backed up by unrefuted argument: yours is backed up by "well i don't believe it". nobody cares what color you believe the sky is, and your insistent belief it is red does not do much besides make bad posts Ceptor orbits structure for 30 minutes. Maulus comes by, damps it to hell, leaves. Ceptor's got another 40 minutes to go.
Done. |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
608
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:42:51 -
[716] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:interceptor disengages and goes to new objective
it cannot be killed Didn't want those 42 minutes anyways? at least you are admitting that the interceptor cannot be killed |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
649
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:43:02 -
[717] - Quote
Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:unfortunately for you they are objectively correct Please remind me how your 42 minutes orbitting a structure in your trollceptor isn't undone by 12 minutes of me in a maulus? Oh right, we wrecked you a few pages back, why come back for more? your argument is now "well sure its a bore-off but the defender has a little bit of an advantage in the bore-off"
that is conceding the point, thank you for playing |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
649
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:43:59 -
[718] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote: Ceptor orbits structure for 30 minutes. Maulus comes by, damps it to hell, leaves. Ceptor's got another 40 minutes to go.
Done.
yes, a bore-off
thank you for conceding you were wrong |
Eli Apol
Pro Synergy
344
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:44:00 -
[719] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:interceptor disengages and goes to new objective
it cannot be killed Didn't want those 42 minutes anyways? at least you are admitting that the interceptor cannot be killed Nope, I didn't say that at all.
Personally I'd use a stealth bomber with rockets though rather than these long range fits.
Different folks, different strokes and all that. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6577
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Posted - 2015.03.09 20:44:09 -
[720] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Eli Apol wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:unfortunately for you they are objectively correct Please remind me how your 42 minutes orbitting a structure in your trollceptor isn't undone by 12 minutes of me in a maulus? Oh right, we wrecked you a few pages back, why come back for more? your argument is now "well sure its a bore-off but the defender has a little bit of an advantage in the bore-off" that is conceding the point, thank you for playing sounds like the attacker has the advantage, they move first, and when they leave, the defending side (if they were using a link) has to wait out their cycle. so the attacker again moves first...
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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