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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
3751
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Posted - 2015.03.23 11:35:17 -
[1] - Quote
Hello people,
We would like your feedback on the various new structure lines presented during Fanfest and on our latest structure blog.
This particular thread is going to focus on Observatory Arrays and Gates.
- Observatory Arrays focus on intelligence gathering and disruption tools, like tampering with Star Map filters, D-scan disruption, ship intelligence disruption, player tracking capabilities or being able to pinpoint cloak users
- Gates focus on movement, like warp speeds, agility and mass in the system they're deployed, affect jump capabilities, alter ship movement inside a solar system, allow vessels to travel to other solar system and modify wormhole behaviors.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
596
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Posted - 2015.03.23 11:42:04 -
[2] - Quote
Can some of them be placed in wormhole space?
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
3751
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Posted - 2015.03.23 11:44:47 -
[3] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Can some of them be placed in wormhole space?
We are planning on some of the structure to be placed in W-space yes, the exact type and numbers are up to discussion based on the gameplay consequences they are going to have there. It all depends if we feel they're going to negatively impact this area of space or spice up gameplay.
Edit: and I'm referring to all the structures here, not only Observatory Arrays and Gates. |
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xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
534
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Posted - 2015.03.23 11:45:36 -
[4] - Quote
Observatory arrays become incredibly relevant if CCP bite the bullet and finally change how local works in null-sec. The possibilities for new features based around this are endless. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
596
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Posted - 2015.03.23 11:47:39 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:elitatwo wrote:Can some of them be placed in wormhole space? We are planning on some of the structure to be placed in W-space yes, the exact type and numbers are up to discussion based on the gameplay consequences they are going to have there. It all depends if we feel they're going to negatively impact this area of space or spice up gameplay. Edit: and I'm referring to all the structures here, not only Observatory Arrays and Gates.
Thank you that sounds very intriguing!
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Somatic Neuron
Masterwork Productions Inc
61
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Posted - 2015.03.23 11:51:49 -
[6] - Quote
I am assuming that gate structures are going to replace Jump Bridges?
What kind of range limitations are you planning on them? Intra-Constellation for T1, Intra-Region for T2, Inter-Region for Faction?
Are we going to get fatigue for using them, or are they going to work as stargates do now?
I seem to recall that the original stargates were designed with the capability to be able to select your destination w/in range when you jumped....is that something that could be added/considered?
Are gates going to be able to be player owned, or is it something that only alliances can afford?
If hugely expensive alliance assets, maybe to allow players (and corps) to own them, you could enable mass restrictions based on size of the base structure?
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Somatic Neuron
Masterwork Productions Inc
61
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Posted - 2015.03.23 11:55:57 -
[7] - Quote
Observation Arrays
Clearly if they have the capability for modifying intel, they would modify it in a positive way for the owning entity? So, if I was to be able to modify local to delayed mode, it would only be delayed mode for those not having a positive standing to me?
How would one interface with the OA to gather new intel? Would you have to be at the OA to pinpoint a cloaked user, or would they be available on my scanner automatically? |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1489
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Posted - 2015.03.23 12:27:34 -
[8] - Quote
I really like the "mesh network" idea that got floated during the Fanfest presentations. Removing local by default and clawing it back with structures is a very satisfying mechanic and I hope some serious work goes into making it happen.
Anti-AFK Cloaking is a pretty hot-button issue. How dedicated is the team to making this happen?
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Lu Ziffer
Jelly Baby Corporation Fidelas Constans
7
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Posted - 2015.03.23 12:31:48 -
[9] - Quote
Local as part of the observatory array? This would increase the need to build it. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
596
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Posted - 2015.03.23 12:41:17 -
[10] - Quote
Lu Ziffer wrote:Local as part of the observatory array? This would increase the need to build it.
And if you would place them in a good way, you would have an early warning system for cloaky ganks.
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Ulrik Elristan
EVE University Ivy League
0
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Posted - 2015.03.23 12:54:14 -
[11] - Quote
The OAs look to me like a huge home defense advantage. Do you plan on having smaller OAs be very easy to deploy (read fast and non bulky) to counter this ? I'm especially concerned with the cloaky pinpointing. If local is disrupted AND d-scan is disrupted, how are you supposed to get intel without being able to relay on stealth ? |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
946
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:00:28 -
[12] - Quote
You cannot allow any combination which becomes a carebears paradise - i.e. it needs to be LESS safe than today. Not more. |
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
228
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:01:34 -
[13] - Quote
I feel like it is going to be very hard to properly balance observatory arrays.
It could be interesting if these became some sort of conflict driver, i.e. they should be fairly expensive and easy to kill. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1684
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:06:02 -
[14] - Quote
Alright so, my two cents about these structures :
- The idea of having a net of structures throughout your space sounds cool!
- As for obscuring map intel, I'd dislike to see a way to create false stats. It would render map filters useless. Instead, I'd prefer either showing the information or not showing it. It would create a more emergent way of hiding intelligence, for instance by obscuring the information of quiet system to make things not-so-obvious as to where true activity is.
- Just bouncing an idea around: What about a drawback if the map-filter-structure is hacked, that makes the system somehow glow on the map? Like, you wanted to be discreet, and suddenly it turns into a beacon for everyone to see on the galaxy map!
- About cloak pinpointing: One idea would be to uncloak people who stay for too long without player input. So maybe a system-wide pulse that with a spool-up time? The more anti-cloak structures, the less spool-up you have. And it warns people in local when the spool-up is initiated. This way, an active cloaker can just recloak instantly when it happens, while a true afk cloaker will.. well, be killed.
- For gates, I find it quite odd to have gates affect the warp speed of players in the whole system. How does multiple-gate systems work? Will a gate affect its companion on the other side? By having gates able to slow down the ennemi, you encourage the concept of "buffer space", something that is highly detrimental in sov null.
- Still on the idea of gates, I'd suggest modules that change the spawn distance from the gate after a jump, and modules that change the cloak duration after a jump.
- Again bouncing an idea: What about a temporary effect to warp speed that only affects ships who have recently used the stargate?
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1492
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:06:21 -
[15] - Quote
afkalt wrote:You cannot allow any combination which becomes a carebears paradise - i.e. it needs to be LESS safe than today. Not more. These structures are fully destructible. Why shouldn't we be able to claw out superior sensor suites when a band of murderous and marauding maniacs can easily destroy them?
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
946
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:08:22 -
[16] - Quote
Querns wrote:afkalt wrote:You cannot allow any combination which becomes a carebears paradise - i.e. it needs to be LESS safe than today. Not more. These structures are fully destructible. Why shouldn't we be able to claw out superior sensor suites when a band of murderous and marauding maniacs can easily destroy them?
Because of course, a roaming gang hunting 'bears TOTALLY bring enough power to the field to start blapping structures |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1492
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:09:44 -
[17] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Querns wrote:afkalt wrote:You cannot allow any combination which becomes a carebears paradise - i.e. it needs to be LESS safe than today. Not more. These structures are fully destructible. Why shouldn't we be able to claw out superior sensor suites when a band of murderous and marauding maniacs can easily destroy them? Because of course, a roaming gang hunting 'bears TOTALLY bring enough power to the field to start blapping structures I guess you missed where the entosis link was the mechanic responsible for large structure destruction.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
946
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:13:10 -
[18] - Quote
If it gets safer, you might as well add a new structure called "The BatphoneGäó" which will cause concord to come blow up "illegal" aggressors in your space.
I do not think, sir, you've ever hunted ratters. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1492
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:21:55 -
[19] - Quote
afkalt wrote:If it gets safer, you might as well add a new structure called "The BatphoneGäó" which will cause concord to come blow up "illegal" aggressors in your space.
I do not think, sir, you've ever hunted ratters.
A ratter will escape in 30 seconds, not the 20 odd MINUTES a link takes. Plus the RF timer measured in DAYS. You are thinking at too small a scale. Destroying the structures isn't a quick-fix to allow you to get one kill GÇö it's applying pressure to reduce the safety of the space in question so that subsequent kills become easier. Defenders should have the ability to spend isk and time to secure their space.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
946
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:29:56 -
[20] - Quote
No-one gets to "afk defend" by virtue of spending isk. It is the antithesis of how the game should work, you don't get to buy protection - you make it yourself with ACTIVE players.
Imagine if someone posted "I should get to spend isk to make me all but impossible to gank in my freighter, even though it's already stupid hard to gank. To balance it, a bunch of people can RF and maybe destroy the protection over a period of days. This will totally make my ship vulnerable and completely balanced". That's pretty much what you'd be asking for here.
At BEST the level of safety at maximum level should be equivalent to today. |
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1493
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:34:26 -
[21] - Quote
afkalt wrote:No-one gets to "afk defend" by virtue of spending isk. It is the antithesis of how the game should work, you don't get to buy protection - you make it yourself with ACTIVE players.
Imagine if someone posted "I should get to spend isk to make me all but impossible to gank in my freighter, even though it's already stupid hard to gank. To balance it, a bunch of people can RF and maybe destroy the protection over a period of days. This will totally make my ship vulnerable and completely balanced". That's pretty much what you'd be asking for here.
At BEST the level of safety at maximum level should be equivalent to today. Your freighter vignette is not even remotely congruent to the observation tower proposals. The difference is so large that your vignette borders on hysteria. Sensor towers don't provide invulnerability; they provide intelligence that people living in sov can use to better police and evade those who wish to kill them.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
946
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:38:32 -
[22] - Quote
You know you could just pony up and say you want to rat in complete safety (provided you have a pulse). All the reward, none of the risk.
It would be more honest. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1493
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
afkalt wrote:You know you could just pony up and say you want to rat in complete safety (provided you have a pulse). All the reward, none of the risk.
It would be more honest. Personally, I don't rat; ratting is for the lower classes. I'm far too rich to have to denigrate myself with such base activity.
My interests are more focused on being able to secure the space that belongs to me. Traffic control and detection will be vital for maintaining and defending sov under Sov 5.0.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Yroc Jannseen
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
86
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:49:13 -
[24] - Quote
afkalt wrote:You know you could just pony up and say you want to rat in complete safety (provided you have a pulse). All the reward, none of the risk.
It would be more honest.
Thanks for this, accusing Querns of ratting gave me a good laugh this morning.
Seriously though, we're talking about an intel tool that can be destroyed and in all likelihood will be connected to changes to Local. That's pretty amazing.
This is exactly what the farms and fields concept is about. If you don't like part of our sandcastle, come knock it down. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
948
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Posted - 2015.03.23 13:57:05 -
[25] - Quote
Yroc Jannseen wrote:afkalt wrote:You know you could just pony up and say you want to rat in complete safety (provided you have a pulse). All the reward, none of the risk.
It would be more honest. Thanks for this, accusing Querns of ratting gave me a good laugh this morning. Seriously though, we're talking about an intel tool that can be destroyed and in all likelihood will be connected to changes to Local. That's pretty amazing. This is exactly what the farms and fields concept is about. If you don't like part of our sandcastle, come knock it down.
I'm sorry - I wasn't aware he spoke for the entirety of sov null. My bad.
You see, what with the quite literally ENDLESS TEARS about "afk cloaking" and the utter hate that cynoceptors make hiding behing walls of bubbles tougher (you actually need to not fall asleep in your afktar) I'd rather believed ratting was ... something done quite a lot. As was hunting them.
I also do not believe that it is a stretch to think that if any combination of events is made possible to make ratting safer, the nullbears will be on that like flies on shite. Can't have any risk cluttering up the reward now, can we?
But by all means, try and convince me that null ratting needs to be SAFER than it already is. This should be hilarious.
Oh and in case it wasn't clear - needing to commit to tearing down sov structures over a period of days to endanger any ratter who has managed to stay conscious is not desirable nor is it reasonable. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1496
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Posted - 2015.03.23 14:00:28 -
[26] - Quote
afkalt wrote: Oh and in case it wasn't clear - needing to commit to tearing down sov structures over a period of days to endanger any ratter who has managed to stay conscious is not desirable nor is it reasonable.
Far be it for you to have to commit to even a fraction of the effort that the defenders have to employ.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
948
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Posted - 2015.03.23 14:01:09 -
[27] - Quote
Querns wrote:afkalt wrote: Oh and in case it wasn't clear - needing to commit to tearing down sov structures over a period of days to endanger any ratter who has managed to stay conscious is not desirable nor is it reasonable.
Far be it for you to have to commit to even a fraction of the effort that the defenders have to employ.
It is tough to get a scout/alt to watch the pipe, it's true. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1496
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Posted - 2015.03.23 14:04:25 -
[28] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Querns wrote:afkalt wrote: Oh and in case it wasn't clear - needing to commit to tearing down sov structures over a period of days to endanger any ratter who has managed to stay conscious is not desirable nor is it reasonable.
Far be it for you to have to commit to even a fraction of the effort that the defenders have to employ. It is tough to get a scout/alt to watch the pipe, it's true. They must not have wormholes or logoffskis where you live, I guess.
Your tactical repertoire is pretty lacking if the only weapon you can conceive of for hurting hostiles is counterable by a scout on the pipe. Where's the afk cloaking? Where's the bridging? Where's the awoxing?
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Yroc Jannseen
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
86
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Posted - 2015.03.23 14:07:25 -
[29] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Yroc Jannseen wrote:afkalt wrote:You know you could just pony up and say you want to rat in complete safety (provided you have a pulse). All the reward, none of the risk.
It would be more honest. Thanks for this, accusing Querns of ratting gave me a good laugh this morning. Seriously though, we're talking about an intel tool that can be destroyed and in all likelihood will be connected to changes to Local. That's pretty amazing. This is exactly what the farms and fields concept is about. If you don't like part of our sandcastle, come knock it down. I'm sorry - I wasn't aware he spoke for the entirety of sov null. My bad. You see, what with the quite literally ENDLESS TEARS about "afk cloaking" and the utter hate that cynoceptors make hiding behing walls of bubbles tougher (you actually need to not fall asleep in your afktar) I'd rather believed ratting was ... something done quite a lot. As was hunting them. I also do not believe that it is a stretch to think that if any combination of events is made possible to make ratting safer, the nullbears will be on that like flies on shite. Can't have any risk cluttering up the reward now, can we? But by all means, try and convince me that null ratting needs to be SAFER than it already is. This should be hilarious. Oh and in case it wasn't clear - needing to commit to tearing down sov structures over a period of days to endanger any ratter who has managed to stay conscious is not desirable nor is it reasonable.
We don't know anything about how the actual capture mechanic would work. You are assuming it's going to take a couple of days. It's entirely possible that portions of an observatory tower could be treated like station services, simply turned on and off by an entosis link.
So instead of trying to tear down a high level concept with rhetoric about ratters. How about some constructive feedback about how this feature could work.
The whole idea of this is for players to build out civilizations in space. That is awesome. If somebody wants to stroll in and burn the fields, pillage the village and kill all survivors, it should be slightly difficult. That said with what they are looking at with players potentially being able to manipulate sec status and other things, I would think those structures would present an amazing target for asymmetric warfare. Something that can actually effect an organization as a whole as opposed to killing a single ratter.
The reaction when an individual loses a ratting ship is usually that it was their own fault and they were an idiot. The reaction when something belonging to a group as a whole is attacked, is that we need to all go and defend it. If what you are actually looking for is a real fight, instead of basically mugging someone in the street, you should like these changes. |
xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
535
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Posted - 2015.03.23 14:22:06 -
[30] - Quote
afkalt wrote:You see, what with the quite literally ENDLESS TEARS about "afk cloaking" and the utter hate that cynoceptors make hiding behing walls of bubbles tougher (you actually need to not fall asleep in your afktar) I'd rather believed ratting was ... something done quite a lot. As was hunting them.
I also do not believe that it is a stretch to think that if any combination of events is made possible to make ratting safer, the nullbears will be on that like flies on shite. Can't have any risk cluttering up the reward now, can we?
But by all means, try and convince me that null ratting needs to be SAFER than it already is. This should be hilarious.
The cognitive dissonance here is absolutely staggering. We're talking about removing local intel by default and introducing game mechanics that require effort and investment to restore that information. Your argument against it is that it's a ploy to remove all risk from ratting. Incredible.
Still, this utter shambles of a post does a great job of highlighting your personal bias and an agenda to shoot down ideas based on who they come from rather addressing actual issues. By all means please keep anonymously making points built entirely around hyperbole and stereotypes. That will really stick it to those darn nullbears. |
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