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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Numidio Chthonus
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
0
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Posted - 2015.04.02 10:56:13 -
[31] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Suicide cyno. Learn how to use it.
For those that do not understand what a suicide cyno is or its benefit, a quick explanation.
Have your cyno pilot in a cheap rookie frigate or t1 frigate. Warp to the safe spot where you plan to light the cyno. Initiate self destruct, and wait until the time is almost up. with a few seconds left, light the cyno and have the super jump. Because the cyno dies with your ship, it will only be visible for a relatively short time on the overview, so you are more likely to safely move your ship. Warp the pod away and cloak the super/carrier/rorqual. viola.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1005
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Posted - 2015.04.02 11:20:52 -
[32] - Quote
Numidio Chthonus wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Suicide cyno. Learn how to use it. For those that do not understand what a suicide cyno is or its benefit, a quick explanation. Have your cyno pilot in a cheap rookie frigate or t1 frigate. Warp to the safe spot where you plan to light the cyno. Initiate self destruct, and wait until the time is almost up. with a few seconds left, light the cyno and have the super jump. Because the cyno dies with your ship, it will only be visible for a relatively short time on the overview, so you are more likely to safely move your ship. Warp the pod away and cloak the super/carrier/rorqual. viola.
For +1 paranoia, use decoy cynos both in the area and in the system. |
chelly Dian
Shadow State Fatal Ascension
9
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Posted - 2015.04.02 11:24:18 -
[33] - Quote
Good change - very happy about it |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1036
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Posted - 2015.04.02 12:05:55 -
[34] - Quote
did you guys fix sun-bounce cynos yet? |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1039
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Posted - 2015.04.02 12:51:52 -
[35] - Quote
ShadowandLight wrote:Fozzie
I recognize that this was an unintended mechanic and perhaps broken, allowing complete safety for people moving supers.
However, keeping in mind the "small guy" (players who arent in big blocs trying to move or acquire a super or a titan) this really, really hurts them.
I understand the reason to remove it
But it would be remiss of CCP to not add some other mechanic to allow supers or titans get safe when traveling that isnt as powerful as flipping a tower online, but gives them another option.
I dont have the "answer" but spit balling, allowing only webs to interact with the super / titan.
Currently only the larger groups will be safe moving supers, further cementing their abilities and preventing smaller groups from being able to build up forces.
Its already horrible tipped to the larger groups advantage. These larger groups have the sov, the isk making potential, high end moons, capability to produce supers and probably never need to buy them in low sec (which this targets most movement in).
Before culling this mechanic, at least come up with another mechanic for players that meets the situation half way.
"only cyno when local is clear" boom i did it for you |
Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
45
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Posted - 2015.04.02 12:53:01 -
[36] - Quote
I wanna have your children Fozzie. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1039
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Posted - 2015.04.02 12:53:32 -
[37] - Quote
wait i need to start posting on my non-goonswarm alts about how i need mechanics so i can move MY TITAN in perfect safety because i'm a little guy and hope you don't realize that of course i would use it on my goonswarm guy |
Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx
1493
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Posted - 2015.04.02 13:21:04 -
[38] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:ShadowandLight wrote:Fozzie
I recognize that this was an unintended mechanic and perhaps broken, allowing complete safety for people moving supers.
However, keeping in mind the "small guy" (players who arent in big blocs trying to move or acquire a super or a titan) this really, really hurts them.
I understand the reason to remove it
But it would be remiss of CCP to not add some other mechanic to allow supers or titans get safe when traveling that isnt as powerful as flipping a tower online, but gives them another option.
I dont have the "answer" but spit balling, allowing only webs to interact with the super / titan.
Currently only the larger groups will be safe moving supers, further cementing their abilities and preventing smaller groups from being able to build up forces.
Its already horrible tipped to the larger groups advantage. These larger groups have the sov, the isk making potential, high end moons, capability to produce supers and probably never need to buy them in low sec (which this targets most movement in).
Before culling this mechanic, at least come up with another mechanic for players that meets the situation half way.
"only cyno when local is clear" boom i did it for you
Right, because there aren't a variety of lowsec cyno chokepoints that ALWAYS have neutrals in them, right? Oh wait, there are. That's why you suicide cyno.
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1656
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Posted - 2015.04.02 13:28:30 -
[39] - Quote
Arronicus wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:ShadowandLight wrote:Fozzie
I recognize that this was an unintended mechanic and perhaps broken, allowing complete safety for people moving supers.
However, keeping in mind the "small guy" (players who arent in big blocs trying to move or acquire a super or a titan) this really, really hurts them.
I understand the reason to remove it
But it would be remiss of CCP to not add some other mechanic to allow supers or titans get safe when traveling that isnt as powerful as flipping a tower online, but gives them another option.
I dont have the "answer" but spit balling, allowing only webs to interact with the super / titan.
Currently only the larger groups will be safe moving supers, further cementing their abilities and preventing smaller groups from being able to build up forces.
Its already horrible tipped to the larger groups advantage. These larger groups have the sov, the isk making potential, high end moons, capability to produce supers and probably never need to buy them in low sec (which this targets most movement in).
Before culling this mechanic, at least come up with another mechanic for players that meets the situation half way.
"only cyno when local is clear" boom i did it for you Right, because there aren't a variety of lowsec cyno chokepoints that ALWAYS have neutrals in them, right? Oh wait, there are. That's why you suicide cyno.
I'm no expert but can't you light a shitload of cynos with your friends so the enemy can't check all of them? |
Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
384
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Posted - 2015.04.02 13:58:26 -
[40] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Numidio Chthonus wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Suicide cyno. Learn how to use it. For those that do not understand what a suicide cyno is or its benefit, a quick explanation. Have your cyno pilot in a cheap rookie frigate or t1 frigate. Warp to the safe spot where you plan to light the cyno. Initiate self destruct, and wait until the time is almost up. with a few seconds left, light the cyno and have the super jump. Because the cyno dies with your ship, it will only be visible for a relatively short time on the overview, so you are more likely to safely move your ship. Warp the pod away and cloak the super/carrier/rorqual. viola. For +1 paranoia, use decoy cynos both in the area and in the system.
Train people not to warp to your cynos by lighting them at random on death stars and then hotdropping them with subcaps.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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Dora Adant
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.04.02 14:19:16 -
[41] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Dora Adant wrote:so how are we as small entities supposed to move their supers now?
the warp speed changes really really ****** warping them to safe spots, phoebe made moving them anywhere at all already a massive pain in the gonads
so now we have to set up two POS for every jump? one to light the cyno on (with guns/jams) and one to huddle in waiting for the timer to expire? with caution. Just like everyone else. You don't need absolute safety to move a super. That would be a self-imposed requirement.
caution is pretty much a moot point if you ever need to move past systems like mai, pynakastoh, oijanen etc (aka unavoidable chokepoints that are camped) |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1564
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Posted - 2015.04.02 15:03:42 -
[42] - Quote
I just take gates in my supercap. Ain't no thing.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1658
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Posted - 2015.04.02 15:07:19 -
[43] - Quote
Dora Adant wrote:Rowells wrote:Dora Adant wrote:so how are we as small entities supposed to move their supers now?
the warp speed changes really really ****** warping them to safe spots, phoebe made moving them anywhere at all already a massive pain in the gonads
so now we have to set up two POS for every jump? one to light the cyno on (with guns/jams) and one to huddle in waiting for the timer to expire? with caution. Just like everyone else. You don't need absolute safety to move a super. That would be a self-imposed requirement. caution is pretty much a moot point if you ever need to move past systems like mai, pynakastoh, oijanen etc (aka unavoidable chokepoints that are camped)
Can't you use an extra jump on your trip to jump over those systems or are the systems they connect too far appart to even allow that? |
Sadr Dillinger
Nulli-Secundus
0
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Posted - 2015.04.02 15:50:49 -
[44] - Quote
Quid pro quo:
Make Warp Scrambling batteries infini-point Beef up the powergrid on Large Control Towers to allow enough large turret batteries to be on-lined in order to be a serious threat the dreads, and if gunned properly, Supers.
The OP doesn't address the root cause which drove 'garage door' behaviour in the first place, i.e. all the risk is on the pilot making the jump in his/her super. With the above changes the extreme time and effort of setting up and onlining a 'Deathstar POS' to cyno close to would be worth it, as it then pushes some of the risk onto those waiting to drop on 'lone scrub' in his/her super with a bored 'fishing fleet'.... i.e. there is real potential they could all end up being tackled on an actual 'Deathstar', with subsequent escalation/counter escalation.
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
760
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Posted - 2015.04.02 19:12:32 -
[45] - Quote
the root cause of garage door cynoing was that it was a mechanic that let you cyno in perfect safety in your expensive ship
there were not complex and deep underlying factors here |
Sadr Dillinger
Nulli-Secundus
0
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Posted - 2015.04.02 19:42:22 -
[46] - Quote
Don't agree at all.
Why would people have 'innovated' with Garage door-type mechanisms if it wasn't to overcome the inherent risk with owning and simply moving a super (particularly outside of a power block)? - simple, they wouldn't have. |
Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
116
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Posted - 2015.04.02 20:29:54 -
[47] - Quote
Sadr Dillinger wrote:Don't agree at all.
Why would people have 'innovated' with Garage door-type mechanisms if it wasn't to overcome the inherent risk with owning and simply moving a super (particularly outside of a power block)? - simple, they wouldn't have.
So, make 'Deathstars' into real 'Deathstars' and share the risk around.
Here's a thought: How about you scale down? Risk included.
A ten thousand Titan sale coming to a Sell Order forum near you. This Summer!
( -í° -£-û -í°)
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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
235
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Posted - 2015.04.02 20:33:00 -
[48] - Quote
what about garage door cynos on stations?
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1658
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Posted - 2015.04.02 20:38:30 -
[49] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:what about garage door cynos on stations?
Something along the line of "can't light a cyno within X distance of the docking ring? |
Sadr Dillinger
Nulli-Secundus
0
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Posted - 2015.04.02 20:38:46 -
[50] - Quote
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:Sadr Dillinger wrote:Don't agree at all.
Why would people have 'innovated' with Garage door-type mechanisms if it wasn't to overcome the inherent risk with owning and simply moving a super (particularly outside of a power block)? - simple, they wouldn't have.
So, make 'Deathstars' into real 'Deathstars' and share the risk around. Here's a thought: How about you scale down? Risk included. A ten thousand Titan sale coming to a Sell Order forum near you. This Summer! Afraid of having an actual fight (with attrition) over a straight up gank?
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1658
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Posted - 2015.04.02 20:45:34 -
[51] - Quote
Sadr Dillinger wrote:Quid pro quo: Make Warp Scrambling batteries infini-point Beef up the powergrid on Large Control Towers to allow enough Large Turret batteries to be on-lined in order to be a serious threat to dreads, and if gunned properly, Supers. Or; Make Warp Scrambling batteries infini-point Increase the damage modifier on Large Turret batteries substantially, for similar effect e.g. 3x batteries > DPS than one sieged dread (this would require, at minimum, a 6 fold increase in base damage modifier, comparing like for like) The OP doesn't address the root cause which drove 'garage door' behaviour in the first place, i.e. all the risk is on the pilot making the jump in his/her super. With the above changes the extreme time and effort of setting up and onlining a 'Deathstar POS' to cyno close to would be worth it, as it then pushes some of the risk onto those waiting to drop on 'lone scrub' in his/her super with a bored 'fishing fleet'.... i.e. there is real potential they could all end up being tackled on an actual 'Deathstar', with subsequent escalation/counter escalation.
Where the hell are your friends while you are moving strategic assets? |
theelusiveyoda
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
45
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Posted - 2015.04.02 20:53:14 -
[52] - Quote
Best Patch Fix Ever. |
Sadr Dillinger
Nulli-Secundus
0
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Posted - 2015.04.02 20:56:58 -
[53] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Sadr Dillinger wrote:Quid pro quo: Make Warp Scrambling batteries infini-point Beef up the powergrid on Large Control Towers to allow enough Large Turret batteries to be on-lined in order to be a serious threat to dreads, and if gunned properly, Supers. Or; Make Warp Scrambling batteries infini-point Increase the damage modifier on Large Turret batteries substantially, for similar effect e.g. 3x batteries > DPS than one sieged dread (this would require, at minimum, a 6 fold increase in base damage modifier, comparing like for like) The OP doesn't address the root cause which drove 'garage door' behaviour in the first place, i.e. all the risk is on the pilot making the jump in his/her super. With the above changes the extreme time and effort of setting up and onlining a 'Deathstar POS' to cyno close to would be worth it, as it then pushes some of the risk onto those waiting to drop on 'lone scrub' in his/her super with a bored 'fishing fleet'.... i.e. there is real potential they could all end up being tackled on an actual 'Deathstar', with subsequent escalation/counter escalation. Where the hell are your friends while you are moving strategic assets? With the above proposed changes?... Oh I'd have them all sat in HIC's waiting to trap the first 'fishing fleet' that thinks it has an 'easy' super gank...
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
119
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Posted - 2015.04.02 21:04:07 -
[54] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Sadr Dillinger wrote:Quid pro quo: Make Warp Scrambling batteries infini-point Beef up the powergrid on Large Control Towers to allow enough Large Turret batteries to be on-lined in order to be a serious threat to dreads, and if gunned properly, Supers. Or; Make Warp Scrambling batteries infini-point Increase the damage modifier on Large Turret batteries substantially, for similar effect e.g. 3x batteries > DPS than one sieged dread (this would require, at minimum, a 6 fold increase in base damage modifier, comparing like for like) The OP doesn't address the root cause which drove 'garage door' behaviour in the first place, i.e. all the risk is on the pilot making the jump in his/her super. With the above changes the extreme time and effort of setting up and onlining a 'Deathstar POS' to cyno close to would be worth it, as it then pushes some of the risk onto those waiting to drop on 'lone scrub' in his/her super with a bored 'fishing fleet'.... i.e. there is real potential they could all end up being tackled on an actual 'Deathstar', with subsequent escalation/counter escalation. Where the hell are your friends while you are moving strategic assets?
Dis one tiem I was moving my Erebus solo thru Aridia without a Garage Cyno mid-point and gots tackled by two Devoters from Lowsechnaya Sholupen, which have been watching my cyno alt for the past 7 hours... Was a bad tiem for me. vOv
( -í° -£-û -í°)
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Kyalla Ahashion
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
19
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Posted - 2015.04.02 21:30:20 -
[55] - Quote
I seem to recall this having been declared an exploit a long long time ago....
I found this on https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Exploit_notifications
Quote:
Cynosural Field activation inside forcefields
Cynosural field inside starbase forcefield is an exploit! - Reported: 2008.04.02 16:10:21
Announcement on exploit: Invulnerability when activating Cynosural Fields inside Starbase Forcefield
There have been some cases where players have been able to place a cynosural field inside their Starbase forcefield and thus gaining certain advantages for themselves and their cyno-jumping allies. It should not be possible to deploy a cyno-field inside a Starbase forcefield, this is therefore classed as an exploit and we will take action against anyone found using it.
Lighting a cyno in space next to a POS tower, before activating a force field surrounding the cynosural beacon, is also an exploit and falls under this.
Although that's an ancient page, I can't find anything that supersedes it either ...
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Iroquoiss Pliskin
Hedion University Amarr Empire
119
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Posted - 2015.04.02 21:37:32 -
[56] - Quote
That is a very interesting find, Kyalla Ahashion.
I think a lot of important things such as these had become neglected circa around post-BoB war, and the start of a New and Glorious Era, when/where everything seemed Perfect, and player activity had been posting new highs every three weeks probably? Glorious capital warfare could not be disturbed, not when EvE was making headlines across the globe.
Anyway, everything worked, until it didn't.
Who wants a donut?
( -í° -£-û -í°)
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
760
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Posted - 2015.04.02 21:39:07 -
[57] - Quote
Sadr Dillinger wrote:Don't agree at all.
Why would people have 'innovated' with Garage door-type mechanisms if it wasn't to overcome the inherent risk with owning and simply moving a super (particularly outside of a power block)? - simple, they wouldn't have.
So, make 'Deathstars' into real 'Deathstars' and share the risk around. i figured out garage door cynos on my own for my jump freighter, and i'm in a power bloc, and i used them routinely
people innovated because it turned jumps into risk-free operations, something people strive for in a risky game |
Sadr Dillinger
Nulli-Secundus
0
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Posted - 2015.04.02 21:59:27 -
[58] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Sadr Dillinger wrote:Don't agree at all.
Why would people have 'innovated' with Garage door-type mechanisms if it wasn't to overcome the inherent risk with owning and simply moving a super (particularly outside of a power block)? - simple, they wouldn't have.
So, make 'Deathstars' into real 'Deathstars' and share the risk around. i figured out garage door cynos on my own for my jump freighter, and i'm in a power bloc, and i used them routinely people innovated because it turned jumps into risk-free operations, something people strive for in a risky game A jump freighter is a completely different proposition (hello staton interior).
I'm all for removing the 'garage door', but at the same at time, believe a large 'Deathstar' should be made a much more valid threat, to provide a real degree of risk to anyone trying to jump onto a target that is cyno'ing just outside of one, and conversely, a decent degree of protection ('degree', not 'guaranteed'.....) to the person jumping to it.
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
760
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Posted - 2015.04.02 22:04:04 -
[59] - Quote
honestly if you think that players need a motivation to innovate new strategies and that motivation must be a flaw in the game you're playing the wrong game |
EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
760
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Posted - 2015.04.02 22:05:14 -
[60] - Quote
this is not to say that pos weaponry shouldn't be updated, just that your argument that the garage door mechanic only exists because supers are ~too risky~ (death2supers) is so hilariously bad it is hard to know where to start on what is wrong with that idea |
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