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Aquilan Aideron
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2015.09.23 17:19:30 -
[151] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Aquilan Aideron wrote:Highsec ganking/highsec wardecs need to go. Some bored + 10 year old players heaping on new players/new corps and stopping them dead in their tracks is an hillarious awful idea.
CCP, stop being terrible at common sense. You're including the +10 year players that just started playing the game this week because of the latest antics on a particularly famous Eve blog? New players aren't all carebears, you know?
No, Mr. Spacetroll. Obviously I was arguing on behalf of what constitutes the vast majority and backbone of any mmo out there - the carebears. |
Odie McCracken
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
46
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 17:25:01 -
[152] - Quote
Aquilan Aideron wrote: Obviously I was arguing on behalf of what constitutes the vast majority and backbone of any mmo out there - the carebears.
Why is this obvious? Is there any data to support that the "Vast Majority" of any MMO out there is carebears?
Perhaps Eve is different because at its core it is a different sort of game?
I just wish people making these claims would present some sort of data along with their claims, I always feel like I'm missing out on something. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
960
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Posted - 2015.09.23 17:34:22 -
[153] - Quote
Aquilan Aideron wrote:Highsec ganking/highsec wardecs need to go. Some bored + 10 year old players heaping on new players/new corps and stopping them dead in their tracks is an hillarious awful idea.
CCP, stop being terrible at common sense.
I would prefer if you do not try to bash the mechanic that has given myself and many other eve players joy for at least the last 5 years. No, not ganking but wardecs. Do you know how much material we have removed from eve? How much market we've helped create? Who else tried to hold a 100k ship FFA? We burned through more than half in 2 weeks. Who do think mined the minerals for all those ships, mods, and ammo? Who do you think bought up almost all the t1 stasis webs in jita this weekend for another FFA?
Why... Because we are at war with the cursed blues who seek to stop us from making potless pot noodles in the sacred tea pot. Curse those blues... And why is this possible... The wardec mechanic. So stop try to kill that which brings us joy and many others a market for their mods.
And if you are new and encounter a wardec... Drop corp and reform, do something else for a week, try to fight and get stronger or...Do what most of us did oh so long ago... Drop corp, join RvB and discover the fun of eve PvP. Worst case, you find a new market for your mods and minerals. Best case... You like it and grow into eve pvp till you become the next great nul FC. |
Bellatrix Invicta
New Order Logistics CODE.
581
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Posted - 2015.09.23 17:34:44 -
[154] - Quote
Aquilan Aideron wrote:admiral root wrote:Aquilan Aideron wrote:Highsec ganking/highsec wardecs need to go. Some bored + 10 year old players heaping on new players/new corps and stopping them dead in their tracks is an hillarious awful idea.
CCP, stop being terrible at common sense. You're including the +10 year players that just started playing the game this week because of the latest antics on a particularly famous Eve blog? New players aren't all carebears, you know? No, Mr. Spacetroll. Obviously I was arguing on behalf of what constitutes the vast majority and backbone of any mmo out there - the carebears.
Good thing this isn't your average MMO then. Carebears are not the majority here.
If you think you've won, think again.
The CODE always wins.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
11972
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 17:44:05 -
[155] - Quote
Aquilan Aideron wrote:admiral root wrote:Aquilan Aideron wrote:Highsec ganking/highsec wardecs need to go. Some bored + 10 year old players heaping on new players/new corps and stopping them dead in their tracks is an hillarious awful idea.
CCP, stop being terrible at common sense. You're including the +10 year players that just started playing the game this week because of the latest antics on a particularly famous Eve blog? New players aren't all carebears, you know? No, Mr. Spacetroll. Obviously I was arguing on behalf of what constitutes the vast majority and backbone of any mmo out there - the carebears. Oh looky here lads, we have the voice of the silent majority right here in our midst.
You speak for yourself material and no one else.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Aquilan Aideron
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2015.09.23 17:47:46 -
[156] - Quote
Odie McCracken wrote:Aquilan Aideron wrote: Obviously I was arguing on behalf of what constitutes the vast majority and backbone of any mmo out there - the carebears. Why is this obvious? Is there any data to support that the "Vast Majority" of any MMO out there is carebears? Perhaps Eve is different because at its core it is a different sort of game? I just wish people making these claims would present some sort of data along with their claims, I always feel like I'm missing out on something. Perhaps it is. But im more partial to the notion that CCPs attempts at introducing peril and excitement resulted in some broken and harmful game features. Such as the common practice of wardecing fresh corps of new players. I feel its hard to miss that its detrimental for a game thats struggling with online activity. |
Aquilan Aideron
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 17:49:40 -
[157] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Aquilan Aideron wrote:admiral root wrote:Aquilan Aideron wrote:Highsec ganking/highsec wardecs need to go. Some bored + 10 year old players heaping on new players/new corps and stopping them dead in their tracks is an hillarious awful idea.
CCP, stop being terrible at common sense. You're including the +10 year players that just started playing the game this week because of the latest antics on a particularly famous Eve blog? New players aren't all carebears, you know? No, Mr. Spacetroll. Obviously I was arguing on behalf of what constitutes the vast majority and backbone of any mmo out there - the carebears. Oh looky here lads, we have the voice of the silent majority right here in our midst. You speak for yourself material and no one else.
I would say Im one of many voices on this matter. How did you ever manage to miss that? |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
468
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 17:49:58 -
[158] - Quote
Roney Strongarm wrote: 3) Mission rats got much much harder
Wait a min. They have been even easier than they are right now? |
Giaus Felix
Hedion University Amarr Empire
64
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 17:51:17 -
[159] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:But they don't, because they aren't in themselves balanced. A wardeccer corp has absolutely no reason to challenge themselves. Why go after a moderately competent group of players when you can go after the rookies in whales that don't know how to tell they are being attacked until the fleet lands on them? Most mechanics have at least a rudimentary risk/reward system, but wardecs are more rewarding the less risks you take. Many would disagree with your analysis of what balance consists of, it being a matter of opinion and opinions differing.
As for your rookies in whales, they get 24 hours notice, the same as anybody else that receives a wardec, thus that part of your post is moot.
Quote:Something like a system where war groups can take systems and get a tax off of the inhabitants, but have to actively fight to keep control (so no entosis structures). This would mean that fighting over control of space used by PVE players would be rewarding and you'd end up fighting other interested parties rather than mass attacking soft targets. Whatever way you swing it, the current system has been broken since it became possible to have hundreds of wardecs. CODE. have already done this, they've laid claim to space and attempt to tax people for its use, people like you have been decrying them since they started.
Quote:Whether you want to blame rookies for being terrible or the wardec groups for only targetting rookies is irrelevant, the long and short of it is that it's more rewarding to go after softer targets, which is dumb. Your blinkers are making you blind, it is not only rookies that are targeted by wardecs, it is a risk that any player corporation in highsec faces; some of them adapt, some cry.
Quote:So allowing people to be more rewarded for going after soft targets is bad. People who choose to actively seek out more challenging content should be more rewarded. But they aren't, because the mechanics are stupid. There's always going to be easy stuff to do, but it should be the least rewarding. Like how highsec ore mining is shockingly low income. Choosing to hide behind concord and mass wardec rookies should be nowhere near as rewarding or even as feasible as it currently is. That's not what I said, and you know it. I suggested that people inform themselves of the relevant mechanics and act upon them.
Wardecs are trivial to avoid if you don't want to be a victim of them, ignorance of how to do so is the problem, as you're obviously a concerned citizen maybe you should try being an enemy of ignorance and start informing people of their options instead of supporting the removal of wardecs.
Your constant use of the term rookie risks turning into a trope.
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Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
614
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 17:52:56 -
[160] - Quote
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:
Good thing this isn't your average MMO then. Carebears are not the majority here.
Wow...
Yes, yes they are. In fact carebearing in eve is the most extreme of any game. Pvp to Pve ratio in eve is massive for the level of time spent PvE. This is industry, alts running, etc.
I have played many games since the online gaming first started showing up. there is no game that has the sheer level of PvE required to play than eve. This is loosely defined. PvE meaning anything not directly combat related. This also covers stuff like "market pvp" etc. How many PvPers have their carebear alts? How much time is spent running moon mining, industry, PI, rat farming, exploration sites for sov, etc?
Yeah, rich people can go back to new player ships and casual pvp it, but for casual pvp, I will play a more competitive MOBA... Is why I have no real killboard. I have no interest in eve casual PVP. I have MANY!!!!! games that offer casual PvP but more exciting and challenging than docking games or an hour of hunting to press F1.
Goes back to the topic. Eve is a Carebear game cause the combat pvp has little value. What does put value does it fairly poorly. FW and sov. People actively avoid what could be called a good fight. That is not combat pvp, that is PvE since you make it a standoff and surrender most of the time. Hence the jump changes.
Hence eve needs value to combat pvp. Pirate vs Empire Warfare and requiring lasting and extended effects so it is actually a part of the game instead of a novelty or casual play. Warfare needs to have the same to it.
To quote Lfod Shi
The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25124
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 17:53:25 -
[161] - Quote
@ Giaus Felix
It's Lucas, you're wasting your time. He's so stuck in his ways that you'd require several tractors, a team of cart-horses and several gallons of lubricant to remove him from them.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
11973
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 17:55:48 -
[162] - Quote
Aquilan Aideron wrote:Odie McCracken wrote:Aquilan Aideron wrote: Obviously I was arguing on behalf of what constitutes the vast majority and backbone of any mmo out there - the carebears. Why is this obvious? Is there any data to support that the "Vast Majority" of any MMO out there is carebears? Perhaps Eve is different because at its core it is a different sort of game? I just wish people making these claims would present some sort of data along with their claims, I always feel like I'm missing out on something. Perhaps it is. But im more partial to the notion that CCPs attempts at introducing peril and excitement resulted in some broken and harmful game features. Such as the common practice of wardecing fresh corps of new players. I feel its hard to miss that its detrimental for a game thats struggling with online activity. Truth is though that people who have an interaction with veteran players early (even if it is getting shot in the face) are statistically more likely to engage with the game and stick around.
Ccp tried to prove what you're guessing at and found through their own data that the opposite was the case, ccp rise gave a presentation regarding the new player experience to this effect last fanfest which you can find on YouTube should you care to go look.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6818
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 18:06:09 -
[163] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Aquilan Aideron wrote:Highsec ganking/highsec wardecs need to go. Some bored + 10 year old players heaping on new players/new corps and stopping them dead in their tracks is an hillarious awful idea.
CCP, stop being terrible at common sense. I would prefer if you do not try to bash the mechanic that has given myself and many other eve players joy for at least the last 5 years. No, not ganking but wardecs. Do you know how much material we have removed from eve? How much market we've helped create? Who else tried to hold a 100k ship FFA? We burned through more than half in 2 weeks. Who do think mined the minerals for all those ships, mods, and ammo? Who do you think bought up almost all the t1 stasis webs in jita this weekend for another FFA? Why... Because we are at war with the cursed blues who seek to stop us from making potless pot noodles in the sacred tea pot. Curse those blues... And why is this possible... The wardec mechanic. So stop try to kill that which brings us joy and many others a market for their mods. And if you are new and encounter a wardec... Drop corp and reform, do something else for a week, try to fight and get stronger or...Do what most of us did oh so long ago... Drop corp, join RvB and discover the fun of eve PvP. Worst case, you find a new market for your mods and minerals. Best case... You like it and grow into eve pvp till you become the next great nul FC. On allow wardecs if they are mutual. Fixed!
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Aquilan Aideron
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 18:10:18 -
[164] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Aquilan Aideron wrote:Odie McCracken wrote:Aquilan Aideron wrote: Obviously I was arguing on behalf of what constitutes the vast majority and backbone of any mmo out there - the carebears. Why is this obvious? Is there any data to support that the "Vast Majority" of any MMO out there is carebears? Perhaps Eve is different because at its core it is a different sort of game? I just wish people making these claims would present some sort of data along with their claims, I always feel like I'm missing out on something. Perhaps it is. But im more partial to the notion that CCPs attempts at introducing peril and excitement resulted in some broken and harmful game features. Such as the common practice of wardecing fresh corps of new players. I feel its hard to miss that its detrimental for a game thats struggling with online activity. Truth is though that people who have an interaction with veteran players early (even if it is getting shot in the face) are statistically more likely to engage with the game and stick around. Ccp tried to prove what you're guessing at and found through their own data that the opposite was the case, ccp rise gave a presentation regarding the new player experience to this effect last fanfest which you can find on YouTube should you care to go look. I find myself completely convinced by this argument. Especially after checking the online numbers. |
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
6384
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 18:22:38 -
[165] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Hello, it is humbly requested that people do not inline-quote shiptoasters, so that my "Hide Posts" setting on their profiles works correctly. I thank you for your consideration in this matter. With your help we can make the EvE-O forums a better place. F
Is reddit much better?
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6818
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 18:31:17 -
[166] - Quote
Giaus Felix wrote:Many would disagree with your analysis of what balance consists of, it being a matter of opinion and opinions differing.
As for your rookies in whales, they get 24 hours notice, the same as anybody else that receives a wardec, thus that part of your post is moot. No it's not, it's the entire point. What you're saying is that it's fine for people to have ridiculously high reward at nearly no risk because the group of players they target are terrible. and you don;t see how that is gamebreakingly bad. Imagine a matchmade shooter if it just allowed the hardcore nolifers to pick the easiest target they wanted. Sure, they'd have fun with there 300-0 k:d, but the game integrity would suffer.
Giaus Felix wrote:CODE. have already done this, they've laid claim to space and attempt to tax people for its use, people like you have been decrying them since they started. CODE are a bunch of bored nullsec players who extort ISK while following a dude who still hasn't stopped crying that mining barges were balanced.
Giaus Felix wrote:Your blinkers are making you blind, it is not only rookies that are targeted by wardecs, it is a risk that any player corporation in highsec faces; some of them adapt, some cry. It's the softest possible targets, most of which are rookies. They may not necessarily be new as in have new characters, but they generally lack experience and are not very good. You may think it's hilarious to go around bashing terribles and acting like it means a damn thing, personally I like games to be challenging.
Giaus Felix wrote:That's not what I said, and you know it. I suggested that people inform themselves of the relevant mechanics and act upon them. It's exactly what you said because it's exactly what you support. You support a mechanic that rewards players most for picking the softest targets. That you cast the blame for that purely onto players who don;t know any better is even worse.
Giaus Felix wrote:Wardecs are trivial to avoid if you don't want to be a victim of them, ignorance of how to do so is the problem, as you're obviously a concerned citizen maybe you should try being an enemy of ignorance and start informing people of their options instead of supporting the removal of wardecs. Sure they are, you can just not be in corp or you can roll it and watch people scream about how evil you are for rolling. That doesn't mean the system isn't broken.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
11973
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 18:33:30 -
[167] - Quote
Aquilan Aideron wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Aquilan Aideron wrote:Odie McCracken wrote:Aquilan Aideron wrote: Obviously I was arguing on behalf of what constitutes the vast majority and backbone of any mmo out there - the carebears. Why is this obvious? Is there any data to support that the "Vast Majority" of any MMO out there is carebears? Perhaps Eve is different because at its core it is a different sort of game? I just wish people making these claims would present some sort of data along with their claims, I always feel like I'm missing out on something. Perhaps it is. But im more partial to the notion that CCPs attempts at introducing peril and excitement resulted in some broken and harmful game features. Such as the common practice of wardecing fresh corps of new players. I feel its hard to miss that its detrimental for a game thats struggling with online activity. Truth is though that people who have an interaction with veteran players early (even if it is getting shot in the face) are statistically more likely to engage with the game and stick around. Ccp tried to prove what you're guessing at and found through their own data that the opposite was the case, ccp rise gave a presentation regarding the new player experience to this effect last fanfest which you can find on YouTube should you care to go look. I find myself completely convinced by this argument. Especially after checking the online numbers. Good thing then that 1)I wasn't attempting to convince you of anything, you are wrong and I was informing you of this. 2)I don't care, you're an npc forum alt and matter slightly less than my left arse cheek
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
614
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 18:55:43 -
[168] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Truth is though that people who have an interaction with veteran players early (even if it is getting shot in the face) are statistically more likely to engage with the game and stick around.
Ccp tried to prove what you're guessing at and found through their own data that the opposite was the case, ccp rise gave a presentation regarding the new player experience to this effect last fanfest which you can find on YouTube should you care to go look.
Grain of salt here. Interaction with veterans in general improves the experience. But a co-operative experience yields positive results. Grief ends majority in leaving. Good thing that even a tiny percentage stays.
To quote Lfod Shi
The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26265
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Posted - 2015.09.23 19:33:29 -
[169] - Quote
Aquilan Aideron wrote:Highsec ganking/highsec wardecs need to go. So how do you propose to make highsec players lose ships in large quantities?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Giaus Felix
Hedion University Amarr Empire
64
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 19:33:59 -
[170] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:No it's not, it's the entire point. What you're saying is that it's fine for people to have ridiculously high reward at nearly no risk because the group of players they target are terrible. and you don;t see how that is gamebreakingly bad. Imagine a matchmade shooter if it just allowed the hardcore nolifers to pick the easiest target they wanted. Sure, they'd have fun with there 300-0 k:d, but the game integrity would suffer. I'm saying that terrible players make themselves targets by being terrible players, if they were better players who understood the mechanics at hand they wouldn't be easy targets.
I'm coming at this from the angle of suggesting people make use of the mechanics already available to them, you're coming at it from the angle of terrible players should remain terrible and be protected from better players that they might learn from.
Quote:CODE are a bunch of bored nullsec players who extort ISK while following a dude who still hasn't stopped crying that mining barges were balanced. That may well be true, that doesn't alter the fact that they have done exactly what you suggest and have laid claim to an area of space and are trying to levy taxation on the people that use that space. Their method is irrelevant, they are doing what you suggested.
Quote:It's the softest possible targets, most of which are rookies. They may not necessarily be new as in have new characters, but they generally lack experience and are not very good. And? I'm not very good at BF or CoD, in fact I downright suck at them. I'm learning from the people that I play with and getting better. the same applies in Eve.
Allowing terrible players to remain terrible is far crueler than trying to show them how to be better players.
Quote:You may think it's hilarious to go around bashing terribles and acting like it means a damn thing, personally I like games to be challenging. Make all the assumptions you want, I said nothing of the kind.
Quote:It's exactly what you said because it's exactly what you support. You support a mechanic that rewards players most for picking the softest targets. That you cast the blame for that purely onto players who don;t know any better is even worse. No. I neither actively support nor oppose the wardec mechanics, I accept them for what they are and choose to remain in an NPC corp.
I also didn't blame players who don't know better, if anybody is at fault it's the do-gooders who make no attempts to combat their ignorance of game mechanics by way of informing or showing them of what options are available to them, all the while making lots of noise about it and decrying those who do know about them. |
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Aquilan Aideron
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2015.09.23 19:39:57 -
[171] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Aquilan Aideron wrote:Highsec ganking/highsec wardecs need to go. So how do you propose to make highsec players lose ships in large quantities? How about some hardmode pve? Surely, you dont feel this stale frighter ganking is the best EvE should come up with? |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6818
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Posted - 2015.09.23 19:40:55 -
[172] - Quote
Giaus Felix wrote:I'm saying that terrible players make themselves targets by being terrible players, if they were better players who understood the mechanics at hand they wouldn't be easy targets.
I'm coming at this from the angle of suggesting people make use of the mechanics already available to them, you're coming at it from the angle of terrible players should remain terrible and be protected from better players. No, they don't. Terrible players exist everywhere, but they are specific targets of wardeccers because they are more rewarding for lower risk.
Giaus Felix wrote:That may well be true, that doesn't alter the fact that they have done exactly what you suggest and have laid claim to an area of space and are trying to levy taxation on the people that use that space. Their method is irrelevant, they are doing what you suggested. But they haven't. They've trolled local and demanded random payments for promises they may or may not deliver. What I'm talking about is making a system where the system itself steers reward towards people who take higher risks, you know, how risk/rewards is supposed to actually work.
Giaus Felix wrote:And? I'm not very good at BF or CoD, in fact I downright suck at them. I'm learning from the people that I play with and getting better. the same applies in Eve.
Allowing terrible players to remain terrible is far crueler than trying to show them how to be better players. And you get seeded against people you stand a chance against. Likewise the best players get put against other good players, because the game relies on being challenging for all players. If they took that away so you were pitted against the absolutel best you'd rapidly realise it's a terrible idea.
Giaus Felix wrote:No. I neither actively support nor oppose the wardec mechanics, I accept them for what they are. Which is supporting them... Keeping them as is is supporting them as they are.
Giaus Felix wrote:I also didn't blame players who don't know better, if anybody is at fault it's the do-gooders who make no attempts to combat their ignorance of game mechanics by way of informing or showing them of what options are available to them, all the while making lots of noise about it and decrying those who do know about them. Yeah, it's the do-gooders fault that the "hardcore" PvPers won;t engage unless they have a 99% chance of victory.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Aquilan Aideron
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 19:42:56 -
[173] - Quote
Aquilan Aideron wrote:Tippia wrote:Aquilan Aideron wrote:Highsec ganking/highsec wardecs need to go. So how do you propose to make highsec players lose ships in large quantities? How about some hardmode pve? Surely, you dont feel this stale frighter ganking is all EvE should come up with?
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Aquilan Aideron
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2015.09.23 19:43:44 -
[174] - Quote
delete please |
Giaus Felix
Hedion University Amarr Empire
64
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 20:03:20 -
[175] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:No, they don't. Terrible players exist everywhere, but they are specific targets of wardeccers because they are more rewarding for lower risk. Why are they lower risk? If they weren't so terrible they wouldn't be a low risk target, for the most part they're terrible because they're ignorant of their options.
Quote:But they haven't. They've trolled local and demanded random payments for promises they may or may not deliver. What I'm talking about is making a system where the system itself steers reward towards people who take higher risks, you know, how risk/rewards is supposed to actually work. For all intents and purposes they have, they try and impose a fee for operating in what they perceive to be their space. What you think about their methods is irrelevant.
Quote:And you get seeded against people you stand a chance against. Likewise the best players get put against other good players, because the game relies on being challenging for all players. If they took that away so you were pitted against the absolutel best you'd rapidly realise it's a terrible idea. On the public servers yes, on private servers not so much, I play mostly on private servers with my brother and his friends.
Quote: Yeah, it's the do-gooders fault that the "hardcore" PvPers won;t engage unless they have a 99% chance of victory. Nope, it's the do-gooders fault that they moan like hell about it while refusing to even attempt to actually do something about it by means of education and information. Want PvPers to stop going up against the uninformed and ignorant? By teaching the uninformed and ignorant how to protect themselves you reduce the pool of uninformed easy targets.
Education is key, unfortunately the do-gooders are too damn apathetic to educate and inform. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
14463
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 23:50:08 -
[176] - Quote
Aquilan Aideron wrote:Highsec ganking/highsec wardecs need to go. Some bored + 10 year old players heaping on new players/new corps and stopping them dead in their tracks is an hillarious awful idea.
CCP, stop being terrible at common sense.
Counter argument.
NPC corp posting privileges outside of New Citizens needs to go.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
616
|
Posted - 2015.09.23 23:56:27 -
[177] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Aquilan Aideron wrote:Highsec ganking/highsec wardecs need to go. Some bored + 10 year old players heaping on new players/new corps and stopping them dead in their tracks is an hillarious awful idea.
CCP, stop being terrible at common sense. Counter argument. NPC corp posting privileges outside of New Citizens needs to go.
What privileges do you mean? Only newbs allowed to dock and trade at 4-4?
To quote Lfod Shi
The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
14465
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Posted - 2015.09.24 00:00:38 -
[178] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote: What privileges do you mean?
The ability to post on any board on this site besides New Citizens Q&A.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Nihlus Valke
University of Caille Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2015.09.24 04:16:06 -
[179] - Quote
You're wasting your breathe.
As long as things are in the favor of the shoot first crowd they will continue with the "EVE is harsh, deal with it" lines. That is, of course, until CCP introduces something that upsets their preferred gameplay type. Then it'll be a shitstorm of crybaby antics. Posers.
Wardeccing is the dumbest idea I think has ever been introduced into the MMO (Well, maybe the bounty system is the dumbest). I understand Nullsec corps officially notifying CONCORD of war so that hisec can't act has a safe zone in war, but to arbitrarily just go about circumventing the very purpose of hisec because, apparently, this supposed "PVP game" doesn't have enough PvPers to satisfy the low/null crowd is absurd. Especially considering you have two completely separate dynamics for PvE and PvP. Unless ALL content requires the same type of fits currently designated as PvP, to force PvP on PvE players is complete unbalanced garbage game design. So until NPC pirates start ALL behaving like players (smaller numbers, higher DPS, warping away when they get low on health, possibly requiring more small gangs, etc.) the two communities are incompatible. Because one side get everything they want and the other gets hosed. Why even have NPC pirates? Let the players be the pirates with NPC agents sending you out to kill pirate players. Either everything is PvP or the two need to have that buffer hisec SHOULD offer. Let's not forget that these so-called PvPers just want easy targets to murder. Essentially these wardecs are nothing more than griefing. Tear harvesting at its best.
If a hisec corp member attacks another corp's member(s) and the victim(s) earn killrights, only then should any talk of war come up. The offending corp can either pay a certain amount of isk depending on the number of infractions and damage done as recompense or suffer the consequences (i.e. war). Or if two corps are competing over hisec resources and mutually decide to settle the dispute on the battlefield, so be it. Otherwise, it's just plain stupid. It's like the AT&T paying the state for the right of its employees to kill T-Mobile employees in broad daylight while the police just stand by and watch. Utterly asinine from both a gameplay and role-play side. All those mining crews working for NON-AGGRESSIVE capsuleers being murdered without provocation. And the universe is not up in arms against CONCORD for sanctioning the executions (because that's what it is) of innocent civilians???
The only alternative to a corp I can think of off the top of my head is a group with a private player chat channel. You'd give your own members a certain status to single them out in local. The game is not designed in your favor even if people like you make up the overwhelming vast majority of players. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6820
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Posted - 2015.09.24 06:02:45 -
[180] - Quote
Giaus Felix wrote:Why are they lower risk? If they weren't so terrible they wouldn't be a low risk target, for the most part they're terrible because they're ignorant of their options. Because they are terrible. And if they weren't, wardeccers would just pick people that are. All the time there are bad and new players (which is always) they will be targeted because the mechanics favour those targets. If those players learn, different ones will e picked. I really don't know how you still don't get this. The mechanics should favour picking a challenging target. You can keep saying "but people should learn" until the cows come home, but it doesn't change the reason the lowest bar players are picked.
Giaus Felix wrote:For all intents and purposes they have, they try and impose a fee for operating in what they perceive to be their space. What you think about their methods is irrelevant. No they don't. Look, I'm not going to discuss code here, it's off topic. I get that you seem to appreciate what they do, but they are not a solution for broken mechanics.
Giaus Felix wrote:On the public servers yes, on private servers not so much, I play mostly on private servers with my brother and his friends. TQ is a public server.
Giaus Felix wrote:Nope, it's the do-gooders fault that they moan like hell about it while refusing to even attempt to actually do something about it by means of education and information. Want PvPers to stop going up against the uninformed and ignorant? By teaching the uninformed and ignorant how to protect themselves you reduce the pool of uninformed easy targets.
Education is key, unfortunately the do-gooders are too damn apathetic to educate and inform. Clearly we're not going to get anywhere here. I get it, you want to keep the mechanics so that easy people are always the best targets and want to sit there trying to blame everyone except the actual problem (the mechanics themselves) to justify selecting low risk, no effort targets for the best reward. You're no different from some guy that's found a way to make at bank off of rinsing a level 1 mission and won't give it up because it's easy and rewarding.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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