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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
coolie oberon
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Posted - 2008.04.08 10:55:00 -
[1]
GM took 664 million isk from me, dropping me to below -430 mil There was no note of explanation, and petitions asking to discuss it were greeted with Vader-like -- "pray we do not investigate further" warnings. After playing Eve for over a year I really am shocked at the way the GM treated me.
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Zaerlorth Maelkor
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Posted - 2008.04.08 10:57:00 -
[2]
Buying isk is bad, mkay?
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I should really get a sig. |
Roxanna Kell
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Posted - 2008.04.08 10:57:00 -
[3]
I just looked at your avatar, i can see his reason. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Quote: There is no Dishonor in winning fools, so do it any way you can.
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Donna Divine
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Posted - 2008.04.08 10:58:00 -
[4]
You bought 640m isk or received 640m isk from someone that bought it/macroed it together.
What he probably means it that you should be ahppy they do not investigate further into wether or not you could have known about it being bought or macroed, because during such an investigation your account would be frozen. Those things can take fairly longish. Especially when youve been an ass in your emails I'd say.
enjoy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gilded Goose Brokerages Trading to order. |
Phoenicia
Black Sea Industries Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.08 11:07:00 -
[5]
The *only* way to make money is by ratting/missioning. You can't buy or sell anything anymore (selling due to sales tax). It happened to me once, and I had a very generous corpmate bail me out of that one. I learned my lesson though ^^
Good luck. And kids; buying isk is bad. M'kay?
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Yon89
Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.08 11:08:00 -
[6]
if you have done nothing wrong i would ask to get the matter investigated further.
If you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide
Yon89
============= SIG SIG SIG |
Sleepkevert
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.08 11:09:00 -
[7]
These threads never get old _
Sign my sig! |
Izo Azlion
Ataraxia.
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Posted - 2008.04.08 11:09:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Izo Azlion on 08/04/2008 11:09:41 You bought or received unknowingly around a 750mil ISK.
And your surprised? Better get NPCing mate.
Izo Azlion.
---
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.08 11:40:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sleepkevert These threads never get old
I was just thinking the same thing. :)
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Durzel
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.08 11:43:00 -
[10]
lol @ "pray we do not investigate further" response.
Maybe it would help if you actually explained where you got the ~664m from?
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ry ry
StateCorp Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.08 11:46:00 -
[11]
Quote: "pray we do not investigate further"
the GMs should definitely do more Darth Vader stylee roleplay.
i find your lack of isk disturbing.
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Hivsen Ng
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.08 11:48:00 -
[12]
Selling GTC's for ISK is not forbidden, however.
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.04.08 11:55:00 -
[13]
buying isk is bad.. ok ? ---------------------------------- Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.04.08 11:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: coolie oberon Vader-like -- "pray we do not investigate further" warnings.
Priceless
Well, if you are 100% sure you have done absolutely nothing wrong, then sure, ask them to "investigate further". However, on the odd chance you might have ACTUALLY done something wrong (even if you were unaware at the moment it was wrong), then just shut up about it.
Now, tell me... HAVE you received an insane whoopload of ISK recently that you didn't expect to receive ? Or worse, have you BOUGHT those ISK, but not in the allowed "secure GTC trade" way ?
1|2|3|4|5. |
N'irrti
Reach Fuileach
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Posted - 2008.04.08 11:56:00 -
[15]
Originally by: ry ry i find your lack of isk disturbing.
I lol'ed
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Thorradin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.08 12:01:00 -
[16]
Originally by: ry ry
Quote: "pray we do not investigate further"
the GMs should definitely do more Darth Vader stylee roleplay.
i find your lack of isk disturbing.
The strength of this blob is insignificant next to the power of the banhammer.
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Tzar'rim
Nazcan Technologies
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Posted - 2008.04.08 12:02:00 -
[17]
Originally by: ry ry
Quote: "pray we do not investigate further"
the GMs should definitely do more Darth Vader stylee roleplay.
i find your lack of isk disturbing.
/thread
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Cpt Branko
Surge. Night's Dawn
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Posted - 2008.04.08 12:04:00 -
[18]
Originally by: ry ry
Quote: "pray we do not investigate further"
the GMs should definitely do more Darth Vader stylee roleplay.
i find your lack of isk disturbing.
That.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Durzel
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.08 12:04:00 -
[19]
Didn't CCP outlaw selling GTCs outside the secure method? Presumably if people are selling these on Jita local (for example) then there is a risk of their millions disappearing?
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Zetjur Jilnou
Rapid Deployment Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.08 12:17:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Durzel Didn't CCP outlaw selling GTCs outside the secure method? Presumably if people are selling these on Jita local (for example) then there is a risk of their millions disappearing?
Yes, I fail to see why people refuse to use the secure system, though.
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Riho
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.04.08 12:33:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Durzel Didn't CCP outlaw selling GTCs outside the secure method? Presumably if people are selling these on Jita local (for example) then there is a risk of their millions disappearing?
its not illegal to advertise the sale... if they use a secure transaction to do the deal then its not illegal.... ---------------------------------- Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Steve Celeste
Pwnage Distribution Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.08 12:34:00 -
[22]
Originally by: ry ry
Quote: "pray we do not investigate further"
the GMs should definitely do more Darth Vader stylee roleplay.
i find your lack of isk disturbing.
This.
..see how lame this is?
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.08 12:37:00 -
[23]
Yeah... you lost around 750mil, better make sure you know where it came from before you ask to have that investigated further
lol @ roleplaying GMs ------------
Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
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Woddawick
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.04.08 12:38:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Woddawick on 08/04/2008 12:37:53
Originally by: coolie oberon GM took 664 million isk from me, dropping me to below -430 mil There was no note of explanation, and petitions asking to discuss it were greeted with Vader-like -- "pray we do not investigate further" warnings. After playing Eve for over a year I really am shocked at the way the GM treated me.
I agree. You are still apparently being allowed to log on.
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Barzam
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.04.08 12:44:00 -
[25]
no more posts by OP = admission of guilt (or not reading up on the rules)
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2008.04.08 12:54:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Barzam
no more posts by OP = admission of guilt (or not reading up on the rules)
Or maybe he got investigated further by CCP?
Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.08 13:03:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Originally by: Barzam
no more posts by OP = admission of guilt (or not reading up on the rules)
Or maybe he got investigated further by CCP?
Clearly wasn't praying hard enough. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.8 (Updated 4/7) |
Armoured C
Globaltech Industries The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.04.08 13:14:00 -
[28]
or playing hard enough
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Rakivic
Galactic Express Frontier Trade League
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Posted - 2008.04.08 13:24:00 -
[29]
the GM took all you isk and gave it to me because I know things.....let's call it a pay of ----------------------------------------------- [Image Removed] CCP did not like my signature so I had to replace it with this one |
northwesten
Trinity Corporate Services
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Posted - 2008.04.08 13:31:00 -
[30]
I didn't know you pay for isk still I thought that died out as time card thingy doing it all
Trinity Corporate Services
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.04.08 13:41:00 -
[31]
This is yet another time a topic like this has come up. Every time it has, there's been one of the following outcomes.
A) Op has been daft and not realised buying ISK is against the EULA. B) Op has recieved bought ISK from a friend and not realised it's against the EULA. C) Op has recieved bought ISK from a friend not realising it was bought, and the friend lied. Later it was found the friend's account had been banned for isk buying/selling. D) Op recieved bought isk somehow, denied it, insisted his friend was innocent and escalated it. Further investigation revealed that CCP hadn't looked into it as much as they should've... as a result they were able to implicate MORE people involved in the situation. Net effect, more people got isk pulled, and more people got banned.
I can't be bothered searching for the topics where these situations happened, but trust me. Search the forums for "GM isk removing" and you'll see all the proof you need. You got ISK removed, but you won't get my sympathy because precendents are on CCPs side.
Improve Market Competition! |
Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.08 13:50:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Kerdrak on 08/04/2008 13:51:00
Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
B) Op has recieved bought ISK from a friend and not realised it's against the EULA. C) Op has recieved bought ISK from a friend not realising it was bought, and the friend lied. Later it
Why a GM should punish me for receiving isk other one bought? a GM have to punish the guy who bought the isk directly. ________________________________________
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Tchell Dahhn
Deny Reality
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Posted - 2008.04.08 13:52:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kerdrak Why a GM should punish me for receiving isk other one bought? a GM would ban to the guy who bought the isk.
If you received forged monies in RL, the FBI would arrest the perpetrators, and then relieve you of the ill-gotten loot.
Now offering Scanning Services for that 'hard to find' Mission Runner! Convo in-game for details!
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Darwin Duck
Ark Royals
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Posted - 2008.04.08 13:54:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Darwin Duck on 08/04/2008 13:55:02 They didn't ban him, only shows how much they love our 15 USD/Euro a month. Or maybe they have banned him now since he doesn't post a reply here trying to lie his way out of this mess. Well at least they do something.
If you take the risk GM thakes yur isk
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Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.08 13:55:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
Originally by: Kerdrak Why a GM should punish me for receiving isk other one bought? a GM would ban to the guy who bought the isk.
If you received forged monies in RL, the FBI would arrest the perpetrators, and then relieve you of the ill-gotten loot.
Well, comparating EVE and RL: if you kill a guy in RL you end in jail. ________________________________________
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.08 13:55:00 -
[36]
Perhaps the OP should read the latest dev blog. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.8 (Updated 4/7) |
Kerdrak
3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.08 14:02:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Tarminic Perhaps the OP should read the latest dev blog.
Thanks, I didn't realize of it.
Quote: If the illegally bought ISK has been spent, then the wallets will simply be put in the negative
:) ________________________________________
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Tchell Dahhn
Deny Reality
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Posted - 2008.04.08 14:04:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kerdrak Well, comparating EVE and RL: if you kill a guy in RL you end in jail.
Not if he stole your jetcan full of ore.
Now offering Scanning Services for that 'hard to find' Mission Runner! Convo in-game for details!
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ry ry
StateCorp Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.08 14:05:00 -
[39]
so if you can transfer billions of isk to somebody, slowly and without them noticing, you can eventually petition them and leave them several billion in the hole, and effectively ****** without a rich friend to bail them out?
ATTENTION ISK BUYERS. PLEASE ALL SEND JENNY SPITFIRE 1 MILLION ISK A MONTH FOR THE NEXT YEAR.
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AltBier
Blue. Blue Federation
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Posted - 2008.04.08 14:34:00 -
[40]
LOL, why does everyone hate JENNY SPITFIRE.
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ry ry
StateCorp Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.04.08 14:39:00 -
[41]
she's an easy target :(
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2008.04.08 14:41:00 -
[42]
Quote:
Why a GM should punish me for receiving isk other one bought? a GM have to punish the guy who bought the isk directly.
One of my mates plays EVE. I could buy a GTC, grab a new character, buy a whole bunch of isk and throw it to him. Or heck, myself on my credit-card account. CCP still wouldn't know who owned the account.
Most likely scenario is that the character whom received the ISK is *somehow* affiliated back to the purchasing source. Throwaway alts (and accounts w/GTCs bought with ISK) mean that in any situation involving the transfer of dirty isk, all parties are guilty, unless you can really prove you had nothing to do with it.
How do you prove you had nothing to do with it? (before the screams of "So isk sellers can just dump isk on someone and get it removed?") Having the ISK removed is only an issue if you spend it. If you recieve a large amount of "out of the ordinary" isk from a character named "alkfhsis124asd" I'd be reporting it ASAP to a GM.
Improve Market Competition! |
Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
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Posted - 2008.04.08 14:51:00 -
[43]
Originally by: coolie oberon There was no note of explanation
Really hard to believe. There is always a possibility of a mistake. Taking money without giving a reason is simply a theft.
Originally by: coolie oberon "pray we do not investigate further"
In other words: The GM wasn't even sure whether his action was justified.
You could bring CCP to court because they restricted you to play the game for the money you pay (unless the EULA allows something like this, then the EULA has at least one very bad paragraph obviously).
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.04.08 14:57:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Kolmogorow
Originally by: coolie oberon "pray we do not investigate further"
In other words: The GM wasn't even sure whether his action was justified.
You could bring CCP to court because they restricted you to play the game for the money you pay (unless the EULA allows something like this, then the EULA has at least one very bad paragraph obviously).
More like, the GM was fairly convinced that if they were to investigate further, enough reasons for a BAN would surface.
As for the second part... the EULA pretty much states that CCP can simply terminate any account at any given time, even without having to give a reason at all. Didn't you EVER read the EULA ? Were this a bar or club, it would have said "we reserve the right to pick our customers", as simple as that. And since ALL "virtual belongings" inside EVE don't actually belong to you, but to CCP... you only LEASING the right to use them... there's no "attackable" point, legally.
1|2|3|4|5. |
Save You
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:03:00 -
[45]
I had the same thing happen to me today, last night I logged in for the first time after coming back from deployment, everything is good to go, my measly 110mil still safe and sound. I log in this morning and I'm at -1.8 billion. Now, I know I haven't bought any isk. Thats kind of hard when I haven't had an internet connection in months. I bought the character on the forums before I left, so maybe the previous guy did? This raises the question: "Can I be held accountable for the previous owners actions?" After I paid $20 to have the character sent to me? I was hoping to have this game still after my next deployment in about a month, but now I'm thinking my beta-till-now payments of 14.95 a month are going to end if they think telling me I'm lucky they don't investigate more is a reasonable answer.
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4 Hire
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:08:00 -
[46]
Edited by: 4 Hire on 08/04/2008 15:09:52 why does every freeking thread have to involve... OMG take ccp to court omg!!!!
Look nothing that goes on in game can be reason to sue CCP as the EULA and common sense comes up in the fact they own the game and everything in it and you have no say in its management.
Unless they fraudulently charge your credit card or bill you illegally no player has any action they can take legally against CCP for any circumstance! Why? because no matter what the EULA; and any other "implied" agreements that you may not even know you agreed to; will apply which makes them exempt from legal action.
So for the love of MINMATAR!!!! YOU CANT SUE CCP!!!
*PS* On another note I did just get my credit card dispute back from SOE in the amount of $15.89 for their illegal billing of my card. So if your that upset your best bet is to just dispute your credit card bill from CCP and that is taken care of on a legal basis and if your denied you have no legal claim. If its credited back well good for you hope you don't plan on playing anymore anyway =)
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Ki Anna
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:10:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Ki Anna on 08/04/2008 15:10:14
Originally by: Kerdrak Why a GM should punish me for receiving isk other one bought? a GM have to punish the guy who bought the isk directly.
Anti-laundering clause:
If you recieve a huge cash gift from a friend who happens to be a drug dealer, you should not be too suprised if the legal system gives you a hard time.
If you recieve a large ISK gift from someone, you better make sure that it is from a clean source. In the very least, make sure that you recieved it from someone's main, and not a random alt. Otherwise, you will have a hard time establishing that you were not in fact the purchaser of the ISK, the the person who sent it to you acting only as a middle man.
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:12:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Save You I had the same thing happen to me today, last night I logged in for the first time after coming back from deployment, everything is good to go, my measly 110mil still safe and sound. I log in this morning and I'm at -1.8 billion. Now, I know I haven't bought any isk. Thats kind of hard when I haven't had an internet connection in months. I bought the character on the forums before I left, so maybe the previous guy did? This raises the question: "Can I be held accountable for the previous owners actions?" After I paid $20 to have the character sent to me? I was hoping to have this game still after my next deployment in about a month, but now I'm thinking my beta-till-now payments of 14.95 a month are going to end if they think telling me I'm lucky they don't investigate more is a reasonable answer.
It's most likely that whoever sold you the character purchased ISK with it and then laundered it, knowing that the character would eventually be caught and the ISK removed.
Petition this - explain that you purchased the character and that you have not used it until recently. Link the forum post regarding it's sale and purchase, if possible produce information regarding the character transfer (never done it so I don't know if there's a transaction ID or anything) and generally let them know that the character in question has only been in your possession for a short amount of time.
Be nice about it though - otherwise they'll be less inclined to help you ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.8 (Updated 4/7) |
Durzel
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:15:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Darwin Duck Edited by: Darwin Duck on 08/04/2008 13:55:02 They didn't ban him, only shows how much they love our 15 USD/Euro a month. Or maybe they have banned him now since he doesn't post a reply here trying to lie his way out of this mess. Well at least they do something.
If you take the risk GM thakes yur isk
Being -400 million odd in the hole is as good as being banned to be honest. Pretty much no way out of that short of re-rolling of having a very understanding corp to bail you out.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:15:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Akita T on 08/04/2008 15:16:24
Originally by: Save You After I paid $20 to have the character sent to me?
See, another "illegality". The original owner of the account should have paid the 20$, not you.
Originally by: Durzel Being -400 million odd in the hole is as good as being banned to be honest. Pretty much no way out of that short of re-rolling of having a very understanding corp to bail you out.
30$, a GTC retail site, and a couple of minutes in the forum, and no more problems.
1|2|3|4|5. |
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Durzel
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:16:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Kolmogorow You could bring CCP to court because they restricted you to play the game for the money you pay (unless the EULA allows something like this, then the EULA has at least one very bad paragraph obviously).
Ahahahahaha... armchair lawyers FTL.
Maybe he could bring a class action lawsuit?!?
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Durzel
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:17:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 08/04/2008 15:16:24
Originally by: Save You After I paid $20 to have the character sent to me?
See, another "illegality". The original owner of the account should have paid the 20$, not you.
Originally by: Durzel Being -400 million odd in the hole is as good as being banned to be honest. Pretty much no way out of that short of re-rolling of having a very understanding corp to bail you out.
30$, a GTC retail site, and a couple of minutes in the forum, and no more problems.
True, didn't think of that
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:17:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Kolmogorow You could bring CCP to court because they restricted you to play the game for the money you pay (unless the EULA allows something like this, then the EULA has at least one very bad paragraph obviously).
You should really just stop posting about this. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.8 (Updated 4/7) |
Hannobaal
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:23:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Kolmogorow
Originally by: coolie oberon There was no note of explanation
Really hard to believe. There is always a possibility of a mistake. Taking money without giving a reason is simply a theft.
Except it isn't real money, and it all belongs to CCP in the end anyway.
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CCP Prism X
C C P
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:23:00 -
[55]
I like these threads, they provide me with interesting logs to read when I'm bored.
Seriously, if you know you're totally innocent and did everything by the book; You should escalate a petition to a senior GM. He'll go over the entirity of your logs and take actions accordingly. ~ Prism X EvE Database Developer Relocating your character to a cozy, secure container since 2006 |
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4 Hire
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:26:00 -
[56]
LOL prism you have time to be board?
WTF!!!! With all these whines don't you have like 3x10^200 changes to make every day just to have them repealed with a counter change the next day by more whiners
A dev with bored down time... HAHAHAHAHA
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Tim Dust
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:26:00 -
[57]
CCP killed my hamster.
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:27:00 -
[58]
Originally by: 4 Hire LOL prism you have time to be board?
WTF!!!! With all these whines don't you have like 3x10^200 changes to make every day just to have them repealed with a counter change the next day by more whiners
A dev with bored down time... HAHAHAHAHA
You should also stop posting, methinks. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.8 (Updated 4/7) |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:41:00 -
[59]
Originally by: 4 Hire Twas a bit of sarcasm *sigh*
I would feel embarrassed, but I've seen real posts worse than that. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.8 (Updated 4/7) |
4 Hire
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:42:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: 4 Hire Twas a bit of sarcasm *sigh*
I would feel embarrassed, but I've seen real posts worse than that.
you lose 4m SP in forum warfare!
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Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
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Posted - 2008.04.08 15:59:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Akita T ...the EULA pretty much states that CCP can simply terminate any account at any given time, even without having to give a reason at all. Didn't you EVER read the EULA ?
No. But I did now read the part "Suspension of Account": it says that the account can be suspended WITHOUT NOTICE ... IN THE EVENT OF ... breach of EULA or unauthorized access. This is like being arrested in case of a serious suspicion to be a murderer where noone tells you before, "hey, we will come in two hours and arrest you". Giving a reason is another thing, a Must in RL and at least good style in a game, whatever the EULA says.
Originally by: Akita T Were this a bar or club, it would have said "we reserve the right to pick our customers", as simple as that.
It's more like a bar which lets their customers in, lets them order their beer and then while they are drinking tells them: "Go, and we drink the rest!" I don't like those bars.
Originally by: Akita T ...there's no "attackable" point, legally.
I believe that at once. And I wasn't really serious with the court-thing. As I said taking ISK without giving a reason is hard to believe to me especially because my contact with GMs was always in a good style, there was never something like arbitrariness in their decisions. If they decided against my interest there was always at least a explanatory statement for their decision.
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Bo Bojangles
Spartan Industrial Manufacturing SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.08 16:02:00 -
[62]
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.08 16:06:00 -
[63]
Originally by: 4 Hire
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: 4 Hire Twas a bit of sarcasm *sigh*
I would feel embarrassed, but I've seen real posts worse than that.
you lose 4m SP in forum warfare!
LIES! I always update my forum clone! ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.8 (Updated 4/7) |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.04.08 16:09:00 -
[64]
Originally by: CCP Prism X I like these threads, they provide me with interesting logs to read when I'm bored.
Read mine, read mine
I am curious, how did you manage to post in this thread without generating the dreaded "blue bars" (formerly known as "gold bars") around it ? CCP Prism X forum hax !
1|2|3|4|5. |
Ki Anna
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.08 16:27:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Save You "Can I be held accountable for the previous owners actions?" After I paid $20 to have the character sent to me?
Yes you can if you paid to have the character sent to you, because you are not allowed to pay for the character transfer, the previous own must pay for the transfer.
However, if you really think that you did nothing wrong, file a petition, but remember what GM Guard said: Originally by: GM Guard Please note that intentionally unverifiable explanations will not result in us returning ISK, whereas true stories are usually easy to verify in our experience. In other words, please file a petition if you truly received the ISK legitimately but don't bother if you bought it. There are penalties for filing intentionally false petitions and if your ISK came from an ISK seller there is no chance of misleading us into returning it.
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Soporo
ironwood ink Friend or Enemy
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Posted - 2008.04.08 17:01:00 -
[66]
Originally by: ry ry
Quote: "pray we do not investigate further"
the GMs should definitely do more Darth Vader stylee roleplay.
i find your lack of isk disturbing.
BAahahahaha!
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Tim Dust
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.04.08 17:04:00 -
[67]
A GM killed my honey kitty and left me to die in this Turkish prison.
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Abrazzar
Equilibrium Inc. FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.04.08 17:14:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: CCP Prism X I like these threads, they provide me with interesting logs to read when I'm bored.
Read mine, read mine
I am curious, how did you manage to post in this thread without generating the dreaded "blue bars" (formerly known as "gold bars") around it ? CCP Prism X forum hax !
I think he edits his posts directly into the database instead of posting like any other mere mortal.
PrismX = Database God
-------- Ideas for: Mining Clouds
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.08 17:21:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: CCP Prism X I like these threads, they provide me with interesting logs to read when I'm bored.
Read mine, read mine
I am curious, how did you manage to post in this thread without generating the dreaded "blue bars" (formerly known as "gold bars") around it ? CCP Prism X forum hax !
I think he edits his posts directly into the database instead of posting like any other mere mortal.
PrismX = Database God
All real database admins enter data directly. Inefficient web-based interfaces? **** 'EM! I PEE IN SQL *****! ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.8 (Updated 4/7) |
Tyr Vaantau
Synthetic Frontiers Blue Federation
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Posted - 2008.04.08 17:22:00 -
[70]
Radio silence from the OP pretty much says it all: Guilty. ------
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Ki Anna
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.08 17:47:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Tarminic **** 'EM! I PEE IN SQL *****!
BEGIN TRANSACTION; INSERT INTO Urinal (Fluids) SELECT Fluids FROM Blader WHERE Fluids IS Urine; DELETE FROM Blader WHERE Fluids IS Urine; COMMIT TRANSACTION;
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.08 17:51:00 -
[72]
INSERT INTO Urinal (Fluids) SELECT Fluids FROM Blader WHERE Fluids IS Urine; * 11:49:16 ORA-00942: table or view does not exist
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.08 17:51:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Ki Anna
Originally by: Tarminic **** 'EM! I PEE IN SQL *****!
BEGIN TRANSACTION; INSERT INTO Urinal (Fluids) SELECT Fluids FROM Blader WHERE Fluids IS Urine; DELETE FROM Blader WHERE Fluids IS Urine; COMMIT TRANSACTION;
Why in the HELL would you need to use transactions when you're removing fluids from your bladder?!
---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.8 (Updated 4/7) |
Ephemeron
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.08 18:03:00 -
[74]
I'm curious: what would happen if he bought 1000 mil on his alt, then purched 1000 mil worth of trit, transfered it to his main character, sold it.
GMs take away 1000 mil from his alt, he simply deletes the alt. What then?
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2008.04.08 18:05:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Ephemeron I'm curious: what would happen if he bought 1000 mil on his alt, then purched 1000 mil worth of trit, transfered it to his main character, sold it.
GMs take away 1000 mil from his alt, he simply deletes the alt. What then?
If someone did this, GMs would delete 1000 mil from his main, not his alt, because it's painfully obvious that the isk purchased was transferred to his main.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
northwesten
Trinity Corporate Services
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Posted - 2008.04.08 18:13:00 -
[76]
well as the GM watching this thread can i make love to the CEO of CCP kitten?
Trinity Corporate Services
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Burnharder
Tiny Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.08 18:16:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Winterblink
INSERT INTO Urinal (Fluids) SELECT Fluids FROM Blader WHERE Fluids IS Urine; * 11:49:16 ORA-00942: table or view does not exist
So it's true Sir. You are the world's most intelligent potato.
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SoftRevolution
Complicity.
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Posted - 2008.04.08 18:25:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Ephemeron I'm curious: what would happen if he bought 1000 mil on his alt, then purched 1000 mil worth of trit, transfered it to his main character, sold it.
GMs take away 1000 mil from his alt, he simply deletes the alt. What then?
They can track ISK transfers and character deletions one assumes. EVE RELATED CONTENT |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.08 18:30:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Winterblink
INSERT INTO Urinal (Fluids) SELECT Fluids FROM Blader WHERE Fluids IS Urine; * 11:49:16 ORA-00942: table or view does not exist
I'm concerned about the other fluids you store in your bladder. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.8 (Updated 4/7) |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.08 18:33:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Tarminic I'm concerned about the other fluids you store in your bladder.
Don't ask me, ask the other guy. :)
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Zanpt
Lone Star Mining and Manufacturing Ultionis Quietus
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Posted - 2008.04.08 18:34:00 -
[81]
Originally by: coolie oberon GM took 664 million isk from me, dropping me to below -430 mil There was no note of explanation, and petitions asking to discuss it were greeted with Vader-like -- "pray we do not investigate further" warnings. After playing Eve for over a year I really am shocked at the way the GM treated me.
This just happened to one of our people to the extent of about 500 mil, and the lack of explanation is totally unacceptable. As far as "pray we do not investigate further," bite me. Rather, CCP should pray we do not cut off their revenue. You can bet this will be escalated and petitions filed until we DO have a rational explanation. 60+ account holders in our alliance are alarmed by this and watching it closely. Several of us operate public websites and will be happy to post the story there if CCP doesn't shape up and start behaving professionally.
No, our guy didn't buy ISK. He sold a fully fitted BS on The Market months ago, for a reasonable price.
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Burnharder
Tiny Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.08 18:57:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Zanpt
Originally by: coolie oberon GM took 664 million isk from me, dropping me to below -430 mil There was no note of explanation, and petitions asking to discuss it were greeted with Vader-like -- "pray we do not investigate further" warnings. After playing Eve for over a year I really am shocked at the way the GM treated me.
This just happened to one of our people to the extent of about 500 mil, and the lack of explanation is totally unacceptable. As far as "pray we do not investigate further," bite me. Rather, CCP should pray we do not cut off their revenue. You can bet this will be escalated and petitions filed until we DO have a rational explanation. 60+ account holders in our alliance are alarmed by this and watching it closely. Several of us operate public websites and will be happy to post the story there if CCP doesn't shape up and start behaving professionally.
No, our guy didn't buy ISK. He sold a fully fitted BS on The Market months ago, for a reasonable price.
It's amazing to me that there is so much ISK selling going on but not a single person ever seems to buy any.
I'm guessing your man sold a battleship to a character that had bought ISK to pay for it. The questions are: where did the BS come, where did it end up, how much was it worth and how much was it bought for?
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Bordric
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.04.08 19:08:00 -
[83]
Unless you sold a Navy Raven or something for 640 million or some other cool item you aren't getting anything and you best take the advice of not pushing the investigation.
If someone just happened to give you 640 million Isk out of the kindness of their heart well your good friend should have no problem explaining it.
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Twin blade
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.04.08 19:27:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Twin blade on 08/04/2008 19:28:17 All your ISK are belong to us now. Death is great rember where all dying to get there. |
Pwett
QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.04.08 19:38:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Tarminic
Why in the HELL would you need to use transactions when you're removing fluids from your bladder?!
Because if I wanted to insert my fluids into the urinal, it would be very awkward if I was inserting fluids into the urinal at the same time Blader was.
There's laws against that! _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.08 19:49:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Pwett
Originally by: Tarminic
Why in the HELL would you need to use transactions when you're removing fluids from your bladder?!
Because if I wanted to insert my fluids into the urinal, it would be very awkward if I was inserting fluids into the urinal at the same time Blader was.
There's laws against that!
Ah, you make a good point. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.8 (Updated 4/7) |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.08 19:51:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Winterblink on 08/04/2008 19:52:14
Originally by: Tarminic Ah, you make a good point.
Does he? Last I heard there was no database with urinal locking. And even if there was, imagine being the poor bugger getting his transaction rolled back.
Ow?
Edit: on second thought if someone's trying to do that in someone else's urinal maybe he deserves it. :)
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Zanpt
Lone Star Mining and Manufacturing Ultionis Quietus
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Posted - 2008.04.08 19:55:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Burnharder
Originally by: Zanpt
This just happened to one of our people to the extent of about 500 mil, and the lack of explanation is totally unacceptable. As far as "pray we do not investigate further," bite me. Rather, CCP should pray we do not cut off their revenue. You can bet this will be escalated and petitions filed until we DO have a rational explanation. 60+ account holders in our alliance are alarmed by this and watching it closely. Several of us operate public websites and will be happy to post the story there if CCP doesn't shape up and start behaving professionally.
No, our guy didn't buy ISK. He sold a fully fitted BS on The Market months ago, for a reasonable price.
It's amazing to me that there is so much ISK selling going on but not a single person ever seems to buy any.
Bite me.
Originally by: Burnharder I'm guessing your man sold a battleship to a character that had bought ISK to pay for it.
The problem is, how would one know? Public market sales and contract sales are taken up by anyone who pays the money. One doesn't even find out who bought it until after the fact.
Originally by: Burnharder The questions are: where did the BS come, where did it end up, how much was it worth and how much was it bought for?
The BS was manuf'd or bought. It ended up with the buyer. On the market or contracts, the seller has no control over that. It was worth the 500 mil it was sold for. Until recently ordinary BS models were in the 100 mil range, and fittings could push that up to anywhere as high as a few billion, although one wouldn't usually see the really expensive faction fittings on an ordinary BS, only on a Navy BS. Last I checked, faction launchers were about 70 mil each and faction tanking modules anywhere from 50 mil to 500 mil and even higher. 500 mil for a fully fitted BS is entirely possible without any hanky panky. I have at least one ordinary BS worth that much with its faction fittings. Furthermore, a BS with expensive rigs would be sold on contract with the rigs, not without, as they can't be removed without being lost in the process.
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.08 19:57:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Winterblink Edited by: Winterblink on 08/04/2008 19:52:14
Originally by: Tarminic Ah, you make a good point.
Does he? Last I heard there was no database with urinal locking. And even if there was, imagine being the poor bugger getting his transaction rolled back.
You make a better point. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.8 (Updated 4/7) |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.04.08 19:58:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Zanpt angry stuff
If what you say is true, all the player in question has to do is to keep escalating petitions until the ISK is returned to him.
1|2|3|4|5. |
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GM Krymus
Game Masters
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Posted - 2008.04.08 20:26:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Zanpt This just happened to one of our people to the extent of about 500 mil, and the lack of explanation is totally unacceptable. As far as "pray we do not investigate further," bite me. Rather, CCP should pray we do not cut off their revenue. You can bet this will be escalated and petitions filed until we DO have a rational explanation. 60+ account holders in our alliance are alarmed by this and watching it closely. Several of us operate public websites and will be happy to post the story there if CCP doesn't shape up and start behaving professionally.
No, our guy didn't buy ISK. He sold a fully fitted BS on The Market months ago, for a reasonable price.
This is something that I feel is important to address, as you are correct that if this had happened, it would be very serious indeed. We have never reversed legitimate market orders. If someone purchases ISK and makes a legitimate trade with someone, then the ISK buyer has the ISK removed.
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An Anarchyyt
Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.08 20:31:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Zanpt
Originally by: coolie oberon GM took 664 million isk from me, dropping me to below -430 mil There was no note of explanation, and petitions asking to discuss it were greeted with Vader-like -- "pray we do not investigate further" warnings. After playing Eve for over a year I really am shocked at the way the GM treated me.
This just happened to one of our people to the extent of about 500 mil, and the lack of explanation is totally unacceptable. As far as "pray we do not investigate further," bite me. Rather, CCP should pray we do not cut off their revenue. You can bet this will be escalated and petitions filed until we DO have a rational explanation. 60+ account holders in our alliance are alarmed by this and watching it closely. Several of us operate public websites and will be happy to post the story there if CCP doesn't shape up and start behaving professionally.
No, our guy didn't buy ISK. He sold a fully fitted BS on The Market months ago, for a reasonable price.
Oh no! Not Ultionis Quietus! What would Eve ever do without the most important alliance in New Eden!!!!??????
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Hannobaal
Shadow Forces Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.08 21:02:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Ephemeron I'm curious: what would happen if he bought 1000 mil on his alt, then purched 1000 mil worth of trit, transfered it to his main character, sold it.
GMs take away 1000 mil from his alt, he simply deletes the alt. What then?
The Tritanium transfer would show in the logs I would think.
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Kyra Felann
Noir.
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Posted - 2008.04.08 21:05:00 -
[94]
GM stole my bike...I mean ISK.
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Rhaegor Stormborn
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2008.04.08 21:07:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Rhaegor Stormborn on 08/04/2008 21:07:33
Originally by: GM Krymus
Originally by: Zanpt This just happened to one of our people to the extent of about 500 mil, and the lack of explanation is totally unacceptable. As far as "pray we do not investigate further," bite me. Rather, CCP should pray we do not cut off their revenue. You can bet this will be escalated and petitions filed until we DO have a rational explanation. 60+ account holders in our alliance are alarmed by this and watching it closely. Several of us operate public websites and will be happy to post the story there if CCP doesn't shape up and start behaving professionally.
No, our guy didn't buy ISK. He sold a fully fitted BS on The Market months ago, for a reasonable price.
This is something that I feel is important to address, as you are correct that if this had happened, it would be very serious indeed. We have never reversed legitimate market orders. If someone purchases ISK and makes a legitimate trade with someone, then the ISK buyer has the ISK removed.
Don't destroy the drug users lives. Put the drug dealers in jail. That is my only advice to you.
Volition Cult Recruitment Post |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.04.08 21:09:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Akita T on 08/04/2008 21:09:28
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Don't destroy the drug users lives. Put the drug dealers in jail. That is my only advice to you.
I could argue that legalizing all drugs, but regulating them like any other "luxury good" (tobacco, alcohool) would be even better.
1|2|3|4|5. |
Gilmour
Ark Royals
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Posted - 2008.04.08 21:11:00 -
[97]
Originally by: GM Krymus
Originally by: Zanpt This just happened to one of our people to the extent of about 500 mil, and the lack of explanation is totally unacceptable. As far as "pray we do not investigate further," bite me. Rather, CCP should pray we do not cut off their revenue. You can bet this will be escalated and petitions filed until we DO have a rational explanation. 60+ account holders in our alliance are alarmed by this and watching it closely. Several of us operate public websites and will be happy to post the story there if CCP doesn't shape up and start behaving professionally.
No, our guy didn't buy ISK. He sold a fully fitted BS on The Market months ago, for a reasonable price.
This is something that I feel is important to address, as you are correct that if this had happened, it would be very serious indeed. We have never reversed legitimate market orders. If someone purchases ISK and makes a legitimate trade with someone, then the ISK buyer has the ISK removed.
So what happens if the GM was abit trigger happy and did make a mistake putting the player with several hundred million in the red? I guess the investigation takes ages like most petitions? Will he be compensated or will he only get the isk back a month later with a "sorry, we messed up" message?
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Lord WarATron
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.08 21:14:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 08/04/2008 21:14:51
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Don't destroy the drug users lives. Put the drug dealers in jail. That is my only advice to you.
Guy buys isk. Gm removes this isk. Guy should then buy a GTC and sell that to get isk legally and get back in the positive.
After all, Isk buyers have money to spend right? Well, then they can go ahead and spend it on GTC's. Their lives are not ruined at all. And I guess they can do a chargeback on the isk farmers so they dont get money either. --
Billion Isk Mission |
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GM Krymus
Game Masters
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Posted - 2008.04.08 21:18:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Gilmour So what happens if the GM was abit trigger happy and did make a mistake putting the player with several hundred million in the red? I guess the investigation takes ages like most petitions? Will he be compensated or will he only get the isk back a month later with a "sorry, we messed up" message?
Thank you for making this excellent point - I can assure you that ISK is not removed without an investigation taking place beforehand. If any form of mistake is made with this, it will be resolved as soon as possible.
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Ki Anna
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.08 21:23:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Gilmour So what happens if the GM was abit trigger happy and did make a mistake putting the player with several hundred million in the red? I guess the investigation takes ages like most petitions? Will he be compensated or will he only get the isk back a month later with a "sorry, we messed up" message?
First, problems of this nature should be filed under the correct category: Exploit or GM Action. That way you will jump ahead of all the regular Reimbursment petitions.
As for fixing mistakes, I have dealt with CCP on an issue where they screwed up royally, and they did go beyond simply fixing the original error and make a reasonable effort to compensate for secondary damages. Just be realistic in what you ask for and you will likely get it. I know in my case they did everything I asked for, which only left me wondering if I should have asked for more.
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Gilmour
Ark Royals
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Posted - 2008.04.08 21:28:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Ki Anna
Originally by: Gilmour So what happens if the GM was abit trigger happy and did make a mistake putting the player with several hundred million in the red? I guess the investigation takes ages like most petitions? Will he be compensated or will he only get the isk back a month later with a "sorry, we messed up" message?
First, problems of this nature should be filed under the correct category: Exploit or GM Action. That way you will jump ahead of all the regular Reimbursment petitions.
As for fixing mistakes, I have dealt with CCP on an issue where they screwed up royally, and they did go beyond simply fixing the original error and make a reasonable effort to compensate for secondary damages. Just be realistic in what you ask for and you will likely get it. I know in my case they did everything I asked for, which only left me wondering if I should have asked for more.
Yeah, I only have good experiences with them too, I was just wondering as a compesation would be in order in a case like that. Mistakes happen, nobodys perfect.
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Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
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Posted - 2008.04.08 22:08:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Gilmour Mistakes happen, nobodys perfect.
Yes. It would help a lot to reveal a possible mistake if in cases like the OP described - ISK buyer or not - a mail would be sent by the GM like "We have removed X ISK from your wallet because...". To explain nothing and answering when he asks for a reason "Shut up!" (the answer he got wasn't much better) is simply impossible.
Tbh I think something went wrong with this GM and I can't believe that this is the usual behaviour even against a proven ISK buyer.
Especially for new players it is easy to buy ISK without having the feeling to do something forbidden since even "serious" EVE-related websites advertise for buying ISK (or link adverts or have Google ads with links). You only need to not read the EULA (and who reads the complete EULA when he starts playing the game?) and not browse through the forum to feel happy about the "great" offer to buy ingame money for hard cash. That's not a justification for ISK buying but a motivation why there must always be a explanation for actions against a player, also for such capital crimes like buying ISK.
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Priest Amarr
Temple's Gate
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Posted - 2008.04.08 23:09:00 -
[103]
ISK sellers use these kind of things as an opportunity to start a negative PR campaign against CCP. There is no need to make it sound like CCP acts with bad intentions. Even if there is a mistake it can be corrected.
On the other hand it is very true that GMs should make a proper explanation to the person in question. Even if somebody is really guilty, he still is entitled to know why he is punished.
It really is not easy managing a customer service over a certain size and Eve doesn't have a small customer base. Training every employee and creating a system that can handle every situation with professionalism is a difficult task. If a GM or Dev is coming here and says "we are listening , we are trying to make it better" , its a step at the right direction.
I think what is important here is, residents of Eve always want to see CCP acting its best , no matter if the other side deserves it or not. CCP should be happy their community care and want to see it as a company of high standards.
What is good for Eve is good for the Temple Priest Amarr
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Cassandra Beckinsale
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2008.04.08 23:11:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Cassandra Beckinsale on 08/04/2008 23:11:56 Yeah, mistakes can be corrected, but how much? How?
HELP
I want to make my brother play! Help me!
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Arvald
The Trade Federation Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.08 23:28:00 -
[105]
this thread makes me wonder, if you were to scam 1 bill of someone for, oh i dont know lets say a raven "bpo" (bpc) and the person got the 1 bill by purchasing it would the seamer have the isk removed from his wallet? because that would be one hell of a case of karma
Quote: IceGuerilla > You're never gonna believe my bad luck. JagdWurst5150 > well i have ur body := IceGuerilla > Yeah, now find the other one.
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Matalino
Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.08 23:43:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Arvald this thread makes me wonder, if you were to scam 1 bill of someone for, oh i dont know lets say a raven "bpo" (bpc) and the person got the 1 bill by purchasing it would the seamer have the isk removed from his wallet? because that would be one hell of a case of karma
You only need to worry if you scam an annoymous alt.
If you scam a legitmate player either:
1) You will keep your "earnings" and he will end up in the hole because he bought ISK.
or
2) You will end up in the hole and he will get a perma-ban for laundering ISK.
Either way, your victim is still the worse off.
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F'nog
Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2008.04.09 00:14:00 -
[107]
Originally by: CCP Prism X I like these threads, they provide me with interesting logs to read when I'm bored.
Seriously, if you know you're totally innocent and did everything by the book; You should escalate a petition to a senior GM. He'll go over the entirity of your logs and take actions accordingly.
I call H4X on this post. The "dev" posted without a blue bar showing on the main page. Obviously something malfeasant is occurring. I'll be sending a mail to Internal Affairs shortly.
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said
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Zanpt
Lone Star Mining and Manufacturing Ultionis Quietus
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Posted - 2008.04.09 00:18:00 -
[108]
Originally by: GM Krymus
Originally by: Zanpt This just happened to one of our people to the extent of about 500 mil, and the lack of explanation is totally unacceptable. As far as "pray we do not investigate further," bite me. Rather, CCP should pray we do not cut off their revenue. You can bet this will be escalated and petitions filed until we DO have a rational explanation. 60+ account holders in our alliance are alarmed by this and watching it closely. Several of us operate public websites and will be happy to post the story there if CCP doesn't shape up and start behaving professionally.
No, our guy didn't buy ISK. He sold a fully fitted BS on The Market months ago, for a reasonable price.
This is something that I feel is important to address, as you are correct that if this had happened, it would be very serious indeed. We have never reversed legitimate market orders. If someone purchases ISK and makes a legitimate trade with someone, then the ISK buyer has the ISK removed.
Well, AFAIK the injured player has opened a petition with particulars of the stolen ISK and we've advised him to add a request for escalation to a senior GM. Separately I've opened a petition to call attention to it. Hopefully CCP will look at it more closely. Since we don't believe the player did anything wrong, "Pray we don't investigate further" would be a silly and empty threat, but it wasn't made in this case -- no communication was received at all.
We are cautiously optimistic.
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Cassy Dark
Lunar Dawn
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Posted - 2008.04.09 00:28:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Zanpt
Well, AFAIK the injured player has opened a petition with particulars of the stolen ISK and we've advised him to add a request for escalation to a senior GM. Separately I've opened a petition to call attention to it. Hopefully CCP will look at it more closely. Since we don't believe the player did anything wrong, "Pray we don't investigate further" would be a silly and empty threat, but it wasn't made in this case -- no communication was received at all.
We are cautiously optimistic.
Close that petition now... Just do it... It's bloody stupid to file a petition just to "call attention" to someone elses petition... The only thing you'll achive is cloging up the system for legit petitions and annoing the GMs... I fail to see how an annoied GM can help you in this case, especially since it isnt your case...
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Zanpt
Lone Star Mining and Manufacturing Ultionis Quietus
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Posted - 2008.04.09 01:17:00 -
[110]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt Oh no! Not Ultionis Quietus! What would Eve ever do without the most important alliance in New Eden!!!!??????
Very funny. The real question is what CCP would do without the nominal $960 per month or $11,520 per year. I for one keep CCP on a short leash, using only 30-day time codes. When they annoy me I allow more accounts to go idle; when they behave well I keep more accounts active. If they deny a reimbursement I believe should have been made, I fine them in U.S. Dollars by allowing accounts to spend some time inactive. An inactive account is equivalent to about 8.3 million ISK per day. If we were to idle all 64 accounts for just one day at their next expiration, that would amount to the equivalent of 540 million ISK subtracted from CCP's revenue stream in cold, hard RL cash. Not much, but it would settle our gripe, wouldn't it? And if more people did that, CCP could watch their revenue tick up or down according to how well they treat the user base. Works for me.
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GM Krymus
Game Masters
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Posted - 2008.04.09 01:27:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Zanpt Well, AFAIK the injured player has opened a petition with particulars of the stolen ISK and we've advised him to add a request for escalation to a senior GM. Separately I've opened a petition to call attention to it. Hopefully CCP will look at it more closely. Since we don't believe the player did anything wrong, "Pray we don't investigate further" would be a silly and empty threat, but it wasn't made in this case -- no communication was received at all.
We are cautiously optimistic.
Whilst I of course understand your concern for your friend, I would advise against filing petitions of your own regarding the matter. These will not speed up the speed of the investigation, which will of course be done at first opportunity. Furthermore we are unable to discuss cases regarding anyone other than the person involved.
With regards to the request to escalate to a senior GM, whilst this is of course an option should anyone feel unfairly treated by the GM that answered their petition, or that their case has not been handled correctly, asking for it without the case being looked into by a normal GM is not productive, however. All cases have to be investigated fully prior to being escalated.
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Zanpt
Lone Star Mining and Manufacturing Ultionis Quietus
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Posted - 2008.04.09 01:27:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Cassy Dark Close that petition now... Just do it... It's bloody stupid to file a petition just to "call attention" to someone elses petition... The only thing you'll achive is cloging up the system for legit petitions and annoing the GMs... I fail to see how an annoied GM can help you in this case, especially since it isnt your case...
Dear CCP fanboi:
It's about time that CCP and its GMs began to think about annoyed players. You know, the players who pay all their bills. Maybe if someone in your family loses $500 to a mysterious bank debit without explanation, you'll refrain from "annoying" the bank's customer disservice because "it isn't your case." What's bloody stupid is regarding CCP and GMs as if they were gods. They are human and have a lot they can improve on. I hope they do.
Get lost.
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Zanpt
Lone Star Mining and Manufacturing Ultionis Quietus
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Posted - 2008.04.09 01:56:00 -
[113]
Originally by: GM Krymus ...With regards to the request to escalate to a senior GM, whilst this is of course an option should anyone feel unfairly treated by the GM that answered their petition, or that their case has not been handled correctly, asking for it without the case being looked into by a normal GM is not productive, however. All cases have to be investigated fully prior to being escalated.
Pro: GMs responding in threads like this one. This is a Good Thing(TM).
Con: Failure to grasp the seriousness of what seems to have happened. He has already been injured. Total unprofessionalism by a GM has already occurred. If there had been an explanation, an evemail or regular email, there would be something to go on and to communicate about, with who/what/where/alleged-why. As it was, some utter moron transferred 500 mil ISK from his account to a nonexistent account and didn't say a word about why. CCP is already way behind the 8-ball in this. Meanwhile the guy's account is effectively disabled. What don't you understand about the seriousness of this in the context of the game? Maybe he should wait a week or two, or a month, not being able to play, when CCP has a horrible track record of handling petitions? Mabe he should get disgusted and leave the game? What kind of outcome are you expecting here? It's not going to go away.
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Zarin
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Posted - 2008.04.09 06:03:00 -
[114]
Despite people's insistance that they haven't bought isk etc, I personally would see them prove it with their API before I believed them over the decision of several GMs (sure one then can escalate it, but if they get a negative result after that then they are probably lying through their teeth to their corp mates, I've seen it happen from the most unlikely people.)
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IamAcontractALT
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Posted - 2008.04.09 06:07:00 -
[115]
Perhaps the question to ask is where the guy got the isk from?
How could he put a rigged ship for sale on market?
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Zanpt
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Posted - 2008.04.09 06:33:00 -
[116]
Well, our guy got his GM response to his petition. He got a brush-off. Totally, completely, egregiously unacceptable. This will get just as ugly as CCP allows it to.
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Phoenicia
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Posted - 2008.04.09 06:38:00 -
[117]
"Dude, where's your isk?"
- "Where's my isk, dude?"
Sorry ^^
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Phoenicia
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Posted - 2008.04.09 06:39:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Zanpt Well, our guy got his GM response to his petition. He got a brush-off. Totally, completely, egregiously unacceptable. This will get just as ugly as CCP allows it to.
By "brush-off" you mean "We have confirmed that the isk has been transferred through illegitimate means"?
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
fatboy21008
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Posted - 2008.04.09 06:52:00 -
[119]
i am that ''dude'' and as for some of you that claim i have money heres one for you...i dont have money one of my corp mates is the reason my eve account is still ehre and hell im lucky to pay for it this month and 2...i didnt have any isk when they took ahvent had any in a while...and now im stuck in a pos in 0.0 ratting to make it back..i never bought isk ive always busted my ass doin missions and ratting and mining and my sec stat proves it and logs and yes their is sum lazy asses out their who refuse tow ork for their isk and they deserve hell for it... same goes for macro miners cuz their the same as isk buyers.....simply put theirs a mistake somewhere or somthing...gut i got online 2 days ago with a -493m and they had taken out -500m and i had noe vemail or email purtaining to a reason to jutstify the actions..i mean really im afraid to accept isk from anyone now or sell or freakin trade and i realiaze sounds like im *****..i am and i will continues this for as long as it shall take before it is properly handled and resolved...
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Thargat
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Posted - 2008.04.09 06:55:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Thargat on 09/04/2008 06:57:37
Originally by: Zanpt
Dear CCP fanboi:
It's about time that CCP and its GMs began to think about annoyed players. You know, the players who pay all their bills. Maybe if someone in your family loses $500 to a mysterious bank debit without explanation, you'll refrain from "annoying" the bank's customer disservice because "it isn't your case." What's bloody stupid is regarding CCP and GMs as if they were gods. They are human and have a lot they can improve on. I hope they do.
Get lost.
I think what buggers people the most is that a (possible) suspect is bringing crap like this to the forums (we've seen petition issues been posted here how many times before?). And the random emo-rage (we'r going public with this) kinda blackmail threat is also a bit lame.
There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius. |
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Phoenicia
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Posted - 2008.04.09 07:06:00 -
[121]
Originally by: fatboy21008 i am that ''dude'' and as for some of you that claim i have money heres one for you...i dont have money one of my corp mates is the reason my eve account is still ehre and hell im lucky to pay for it this month and 2...i didnt have any isk when they took ahvent had any in a while...and now im stuck in a pos in 0.0 ratting to make it back..i never bought isk ive always busted my ass doin missions and ratting and mining and my sec stat proves it and logs and yes their is sum lazy asses out their who refuse tow ork for their isk and they deserve hell for it... same goes for macro miners cuz their the same as isk buyers.....simply put theirs a mistake somewhere or somthing...gut i got online 2 days ago with a -493m and they had taken out -500m and i had noe vemail or email purtaining to a reason to jutstify the actions..i mean really im afraid to accept isk from anyone now or sell or freakin trade and i realiaze sounds like im *****..i am and i will continues this for as long as it shall take before it is properly handled and resolved...
Either: - Your statement is contradictory with actual events or - CCP took isk from someone who hasn't done anything- which could be shown by a simple search in your wallet (which is stored on the server database for ages).
I'd bet isk on the more likely of the two, but I'm scared CCP may take it for no apparent reason.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2008.04.09 07:18:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Alrich so if i buy a char, is there any whay of insuring that he wont get -100 mill a week or two after the pursase?
CCP's GM's have brains. Just Pettition and i would assuse they would transfer the debt to whoever sold you the char -- Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Billion Isk Mission |
Riho
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Posted - 2008.04.09 07:25:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Zanpt Well, our guy got his GM response to his petition. He got a brush-off. Totally, completely, egregiously unacceptable. This will get just as ugly as CCP allows it to.
probably because he DID buy the isk. he can deny all he wants to.. GMs allways check before removing isk... or there would be a lot of isk removed from random people.
---------------------------------- Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Astorothe
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Posted - 2008.04.09 07:34:00 -
[124]
Originally by: coolie oberon "pray we do not investigate further" warnings.
This is gold.
Deus Ex Machina ~ Eve Corporation, Web Design, Gaming News, Music & Gadgets Blog |
Yosarian
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Posted - 2008.04.09 08:01:00 -
[125]
First: thank you for escalating the attention to this. Going after the buyers is a good idea (think Sweden and hookers...). My guess would be the fear of being caught would be enough to deter a very large number of ISK buyers. Deterrence is the best form of prevention.
Originally by: GM Krymus ...We have never reversed legitimate market orders. If someone purchases ISK and makes a legitimate trade with someone, then the ISK buyer has the ISK removed.
From this it seems:
- If someone buys something off you 'legitimately' using bad ISK then, once this ISK is discovered, it is deducted from the account of the buyer, not you. Hence, if you sell some overpriced Gisti booster in Jita on contract for 1/2 bil, then you run no risk of having that money removed later.
- If someone buys something off you 'illegitimately' then you have a problem... it will be seen as a 'cover purchase' to hide the ISK transfer. Eg, you contract me a Rifter with cheese for 1/2 billion. Clearly not a 'legitimate' purchase... the 'buyer' of the rifter is guilty.
One assumes that CCP is also tracking the transfers back to known ISK RMT accounts.
It's not hard to imagine some tricky borderline cases around what constitutes a legitimate / illegitimate trade.
With this going on, perhaps a new game feature would be a good idea: all isk sent to you should be held separately, along with a list of who sent it to you. Then you can click 'ok' to add it to your wallet. This would prevent having dirty ISK sent to you without your consent.
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Mithrantir Ob'lontra
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Posted - 2008.04.09 08:32:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Zanpt
Originally by: An Anarchyyt Oh no! Not Ultionis Quietus! What would Eve ever do without the most important alliance in New Eden!!!!??????
Very funny. The real question is what CCP would do without the nominal $960 per month or $11,520 per year. I for one keep CCP on a short leash, using only 30-day time codes. When they annoy me I allow more accounts to go idle; when they behave well I keep more accounts active. If they deny a reimbursement I believe should have been made, I fine them in U.S. Dollars by allowing accounts to spend some time inactive. An inactive account is equivalent to about 8.3 million ISK per day. If we were to idle all 64 accounts for just one day at their next expiration, that would amount to the equivalent of 540 million ISK subtracted from CCP's revenue stream in cold, hard RL cash. Not much, but it would settle our gripe, wouldn't it? And if more people did that, CCP could watch their revenue tick up or down according to how well they treat the user base. Works for me.
Ok you got me here. How you keep CCP on a short leash by using time codes to play the game, thus not paying the subscription?
Also i can't really understand your comparison of ISK to real life money and where CCP loses from that (considering that virtual ISK are just virtual).
Feel free to enlighten me.
------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Cissnei
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Posted - 2008.04.09 08:36:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 08/04/2008 21:14:51
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Don't destroy the drug users lives. Put the drug dealers in jail. That is my only advice to you.
Guy buys isk. Gm removes this isk. Guy should then buy a GTC and sell that to get isk legally and get back in the positive.
After all, Isk buyers have money to spend right? Well, then they can go ahead and spend it on GTC's. Their lives are not ruined at all. And I guess they can do a chargeback on the isk farmers so they dont get money either.
the problem in this post is that credit card companies dont consider non-delivery of virtual goods as an acceptable reason for a chargeback
chargebacks cost the credit card money. not just in future losses of interest, but in the man hours involved in the investigation
so no, mr. i hate all gtc buyers and sellers (you cant hate just one, they are mutually exclusive), your plan does not work.
it is useless to resist, my son.
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Narrisse
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Posted - 2008.04.09 08:41:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Originally by: Zanpt
Originally by: An Anarchyyt Oh no! Not Ultionis Quietus! What would Eve ever do without the most important alliance in New Eden!!!!??????
Very funny. The real question is what CCP would do without the nominal $960 per month or $11,520 per year. I for one keep CCP on a short leash, using only 30-day time codes. When they annoy me I allow more accounts to go idle; when they behave well I keep more accounts active. If they deny a reimbursement I believe should have been made, I fine them in U.S. Dollars by allowing accounts to spend some time inactive. An inactive account is equivalent to about 8.3 million ISK per day. If we were to idle all 64 accounts for just one day at their next expiration, that would amount to the equivalent of 540 million ISK subtracted from CCP's revenue stream in cold, hard RL cash. Not much, but it would settle our gripe, wouldn't it? And if more people did that, CCP could watch their revenue tick up or down according to how well they treat the user base. Works for me.
Ok you got me here. How you keep CCP on a short leash by using time codes to play the game, thus not paying the subscription?
Also i can't really understand your comparison of ISK to real life money and where CCP loses from that (considering that virtual ISK are just virtual).
Feel free to enlighten me.
the only real problem is that one person is basically paying for both accounts - owned by two different people
while i have no problem with 4 year old accounts using their unused wealth to keep the game alive and fresh, it is starting to look a lot like the korean f2p model
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Shanur
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.04.09 09:38:00 -
[129]
Am i the only one who noticed the OP never replied to this thread? Troll? |
Barzam
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.04.09 10:00:00 -
[130]
My experience is that players who buy ISK illegally, whether it be out of ignorance of the rules or because they're lazy, won't ever fess up to their corpmates.
They'd rather take it all the way and get their support on the hate-ccp-train, and when CCP finally handles their petitions they'll find he really did buy isk and to compound it he has lied to all his corpmates and made them look like fools.
TBH, that may not be the case here, but be careful about trusting your corpmates just because they're saying they didn't buy isk and making a big issue with CCP out of it. Let him handle his own petitions.
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Zanpt
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.04.09 11:02:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Phoenicia
Originally by: Zanpt Well, our guy got his GM response to his petition. He got a brush-off. Totally, completely, egregiously unacceptable. This will get just as ugly as CCP allows it to.
By "brush-off" you mean "We have confirmed that the isk has been transferred through illegitimate means"?
No. |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.04.09 11:16:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Zanpt
Originally by: Phoenicia
Originally by: Zanpt Well, our guy got his GM response to his petition. He got a brush-off. Totally, completely, egregiously unacceptable. This will get just as ugly as CCP allows it to.
By "brush-off" you mean "We have confirmed that the isk has been transferred through illegitimate means"?
No.
Very informative post. Maybe you should continue to threaten CCP with the denial of 3/10000th of their income? I'm sure they'll fold like paper with threats of such monumental dimensions. I mean, 0.03% of their income will surely render them bankrupt.... -------- Ideas for: Mining Clouds
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TheNecromancer
Caldari The Royal Order
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Posted - 2008.04.09 11:20:00 -
[133]
hard to know why the isk was taken..
I can also only think some of your isk must have come from someone who get them in a no legal way.
but...
if a GM takes your isk or any item a note about why should be in place..
but again... maybe he did tell you.. and you are just not telling us
or you are just "keeping" some information back
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Zanpt
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.04.09 11:29:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Zanpt on 09/04/2008 11:35:04
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Originally by: Zanpt
Originally by: An Anarchyyt Oh no! Not Ultionis Quietus! What would Eve ever do without the most important alliance in New Eden!!!!??????
Very funny. The real question is what CCP would do without the nominal $960 per month or $11,520 per year. I for one keep CCP on a short leash, using only 30-day time codes. When they annoy me I allow more accounts to go idle; when they behave well I keep more accounts active. If they deny a reimbursement I believe should have been made, I fine them in U.S. Dollars by allowing accounts to spend some time inactive. An inactive account is equivalent to about 8.3 million ISK per day. If we were to idle all 64 accounts for just one day at their next expiration, that would amount to the equivalent of 540 million ISK subtracted from CCP's revenue stream in cold, hard RL cash. Not much, but it would settle our gripe, wouldn't it? And if more people did that, CCP could watch their revenue tick up or down according to how well they treat the user base. Works for me.
Ok you got me here. How you keep CCP on a short leash by using time codes to play the game, thus not paying the subscription?
Also i can't really understand your comparison of ISK to real life money and where CCP loses from that (considering that virtual ISK are just virtual).
Feel free to enlighten me.
I didn't say I don't pay the subscription fees. I do. I buy time codes from authorized outlets. I only buy 30-day codes for my chars so that expiration is never more than 30 days away. When CCP doesn't annoy me enough to leave some of them expired, they get as much as $1,620 per year from me.
The way I extract fines from CCP in the form of U.S. Dollars is to allow chars to expire and stay that way for a while. I'm withholding funds in U.S. Dollars, sometimes as a result of things like denied reimbursement petitions. If I think CCP is wrong, it will cost them. Not that their P&L will notice, but I balance things in my world. It works for me.
If I wanted to reimburse my guy myself, using CCP's revenue, it would work like this: I would allow five accounts to expire and stay that way for about 12 days. That would save me about $30. Then I would buy two 30-day GTCs from an authorized source and sell them in game through the authorized time code transfer mechanism. That wouldn't generate all that he lost, but this should give you the idea of how converting CCP's revenue to Dollars or ISK works.
Since I'm already paying them quite a bit of money on a regular basis, it's entirely my choice whether to withhold some of it and for how long. Money normally spent but then not spent is money saved, which is like money received.
BTW, I have not reimbursed any other player in this manner, but I could. I definitely have fined CCP for losses I thought were improper and due to broken game design and/or mechanics but for which reimbursements were denied. If I get really annoyed and idle all my chars for a time, I get the equivalent of about 74 million ISK per day, which is close to the value of a lost battleship. Each day.
See?
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Zantrei Kordisin
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.09 11:32:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Zanpt I didn't say I don't pay the subscription fees. I do. I buy time codes from authorized outlets. I only buy 30-day codes for my chars so that expiration is never more than 30 days away. When CCP doesn't annoy me enough to leave some of them expired, they get as much as $1,620 per year from me.
The way I extract fines from CCP in the form of U.S. Dollars is to allow chars to expire and stay that way for a while. I'm withholding funds in U.S. Dollars, sometimes as a result of things like denied reimbursement petitions. If I think CCP is wrong, it will cost them. Not that their P&L will notice, but I balance things in my world. It works for me.
If I wanted to reimburse my guy myself, using CCP's revenue, it would work like this: I would allow five accounts to expire and stay that way for about 12 days. That would save me about $30. Then I would buy two 30-day GTCs from an authorized source and sell them in game through the authorized time code transfer mechanism. That wouldn't generate all that he lost, but this should give you the idea of how converting CCP's revenue to Dollars or ISK works.
Since I'm already paying them quite a bit of money on a regular basis, it's entirely my choice whether to withhold some of it and for how long. Money normally spent but then not spent is money saves, which is like money received.
BTW, I have not reimbursed any other player in this manner, but I could. I definitely have fined CCP for losses I thought were improper and due to broken game design and/or mechanics but for which reimbursements were denied. If I get really annoyed and idle all my chars for a time, I get the equivalent of about 74 million ISK per day, which is close to the value of a lost battleship. Each day.
See?
LOL! Oh man, some people. You are one funny guy _________________________________________________________
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Willford Bremly
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
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Posted - 2008.04.09 11:39:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Zantrei Kordisin
Originally by: Zanpt I didn't say I don't pay the subscription fees. I do. I buy time codes from authorized outlets. I only buy 30-day codes for my chars so that expiration is never more than 30 days away. When CCP doesn't annoy me enough to leave some of them expired, they get as much as $1,620 per year from me.
The way I extract fines from CCP in the form of U.S. Dollars is to allow chars to expire and stay that way for a while. I'm withholding funds in U.S. Dollars, sometimes as a result of things like denied reimbursement petitions. If I think CCP is wrong, it will cost them. Not that their P&L will notice, but I balance things in my world. It works for me.
If I wanted to reimburse my guy myself, using CCP's revenue, it would work like this: I would allow five accounts to expire and stay that way for about 12 days. That would save me about $30. Then I would buy two 30-day GTCs from an authorized source and sell them in game through the authorized time code transfer mechanism. That wouldn't generate all that he lost, but this should give you the idea of how converting CCP's revenue to Dollars or ISK works.
Since I'm already paying them quite a bit of money on a regular basis, it's entirely my choice whether to withhold some of it and for how long. Money normally spent but then not spent is money saves, which is like money received.
BTW, I have not reimbursed any other player in this manner, but I could. I definitely have fined CCP for losses I thought were improper and due to broken game design and/or mechanics but for which reimbursements were denied. If I get really annoyed and idle all my chars for a time, I get the equivalent of about 74 million ISK per day, which is close to the value of a lost battleship. Each day.
See?
LOL! Oh man, some people. You are one funny guy
Oh wow.
»\(¦_o)/»
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GM Guard
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Posted - 2008.04.09 11:42:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Zanpt Well, our guy got his GM response to his petition. He got a brush-off. Totally, completely, egregiously unacceptable. This will get just as ugly as CCP allows it to.
Please take into account that we have first hand information about such matters and access to logs whilst you only have the information given to you by your friend. That being said, we do not discuss individual cases on the forums. We appreciate your concern for your friend's well being but this will not be solved here. If your friend feels we missed something and wants a second opinion from a Senior Game Master he is more than welcome to it.
Best Regards, Lead GM Guard EVE Online Customer Support
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Zanpt
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.04.09 11:47:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Zantrei Kordisin LOL! Oh man, some people. You are one funny guy
You may find me funny, but for me it is the way I deal with vendors who displease me. I withhold business from them. Before I began doing this I experienced a lot of frustration of the "can't do anything about it" variety. No more. Sometimes I tell the vendor, sometimes I don't. But in any case I levy a fine against the errant vendor by withholding business, which is money. These days you can even ditch the phone company and in some places, the electric company. In my area only water and gas are still monopolies. Everything else has multiple sources... supermarkets, dry cleaning services, lawn care services, bars and clubs, etc., etc. There is presently no viable alternative to Eve, so instead of shifting that business around to the least objectionable vendor I can only pay them or withhold my business across a number of accounts and to the degree I deem appropriate. The point isn't to impress CCP with the Dollar amounts involved, but to balance things in my world, which it does very nicely. It's incidental that the balancing is reflected in the vendor's revenues. Of course if more people did this...
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Schani Kratnorr
x13
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Posted - 2008.04.09 11:53:00 -
[139]
a worrying trend of GM indifference and organisational arrogance at CCP... this is the third time within recent weeks I have heard of "mystery actions" by GMs. In at least one case I know for a fact that the "target" did nothing wrong.
Perhaps some GMs are abusing their powers to take down in-game opponents?
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Willford Bremly
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
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Posted - 2008.04.09 11:53:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Zanpt
Originally by: Zantrei Kordisin LOL! Oh man, some people. You are one funny guy
You may find me funny, but for me it is the way I deal with vendors who displease me. I withhold business from them. Before I began doing this I experienced a lot of frustration of the "can't do anything about it" variety. No more. Sometimes I tell the vendor, sometimes I don't. But in any case I levy a fine against the errant vendor by withholding business, which is money. These days you can even ditch the phone company and in some places, the electric company. In my area only water and gas are still monopolies. Everything else has multiple sources... supermarkets, dry cleaning services, lawn care services, bars and clubs, etc., etc. There is presently no viable alternative to Eve, so instead of shifting that business around to the least objectionable vendor I can only pay them or withhold my business across a number of accounts and to the degree I deem appropriate. The point isn't to impress CCP with the Dollar amounts involved, but to balance things in my world, which it does very nicely. It's incidental that the balancing is reflected in the vendor's revenues. Of course if more people did this...
AFK, Deactivating 8 of my 12 accounts. This will displease EvE greatly!
»\(¦_o)/»
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Rhaegor Stormborn
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2008.04.09 11:59:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Willford Bremly
Originally by: Zanpt
Originally by: Zantrei Kordisin LOL! Oh man, some people. You are one funny guy
You may find me funny, but for me it is the way I deal with vendors who displease me. I withhold business from them. Before I began doing this I experienced a lot of frustration of the "can't do anything about it" variety. No more. Sometimes I tell the vendor, sometimes I don't. But in any case I levy a fine against the errant vendor by withholding business, which is money. These days you can even ditch the phone company and in some places, the electric company. In my area only water and gas are still monopolies. Everything else has multiple sources... supermarkets, dry cleaning services, lawn care services, bars and clubs, etc., etc. There is presently no viable alternative to Eve, so instead of shifting that business around to the least objectionable vendor I can only pay them or withhold my business across a number of accounts and to the degree I deem appropriate. The point isn't to impress CCP with the Dollar amounts involved, but to balance things in my world, which it does very nicely. It's incidental that the balancing is reflected in the vendor's revenues. Of course if more people did this...
AFK, Deactivating 8 of my 12 accounts. This will displease EvE greatly!
The only thing you can do is speak with your money. I have cancelled both my accounts not necessarily due to CCP's behavior towards ISK buying and putting people -4 billion isk, but also the server lag, the annoying bugs, the terrible customer service, etc etc etc.
You do know that when you put someone negative 4 billion isk that they can not possibly hope to play the game any longer right? You can't update clone, can't send eve mails, can't convo people, can't accept contracts even when they are for 0 isk, can't use the market, can't repair your ships, etc etc etc.
Not to mention the fact you are stealing real life money directly from someone by doing so. Anyway, CCP will never change. They have only gotten much worse over the past two years, especially since the T20 incident. I am done with them and thier crap service and lack of professionalism.
Volition Cult Recruitment Post |
Franco Caruso
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Posted - 2008.04.09 11:59:00 -
[142]
Edited by: Franco Caruso on 09/04/2008 12:01:21
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr a worrying trend of GM indifference and organisational arrogance at CCP... this is the third time within recent weeks I have heard of "mystery actions" by GMs. In at least one case I know for a fact that the "target" did nothing wrong.
Perhaps some GMs are abusing their powers to take down in-game opponents?
You have heard of mystery action. Three times ...
All the others were clever enough to cut their losses ( cash ) and try to recover.
You Sir, win todays Darwin and tinfoil hattery award. Please revert yourself to nothing.
Fun thing about this whole thread is that the OP seems to have lost interest of posting in it and that self-proclaimed Don Quixote explains his nickel & dime RL business theorema to the general public.
What it boils down to is this.
The OP, if he wants to have it further investigate, needs to file a petition.
Everybody else, STFU. How many times does a GM have to post "If it's not your problem, I am not going to discuss it with you !" (maybe not like that ... catchmedrift ) ?
We do not have ALL the facts or the "not altered" version of them since nobody will ever openly admit to having tried to hide his Real Money Trade and then getting caught by CCP pants down.
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Franco Caruso
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Posted - 2008.04.09 12:06:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
You do know that when you put someone negative 4 billion isk that they can not possibly hope to play the game any longer right? You can't update clone, can't send eve mails, can't convo people, can't accept contracts even when they are for 0 isk, can't use the market, can't repair your ships, etc etc etc.
... not possible hope to play the game any longer ... *******s. Alliance, get the funds
... can't update clone ... *******s. Have to be careful then.
... can't send eve mails ... *******s. The people that count to them should have you on the buddylist.
... can't accept contracts ... *******s. Unless you just a money laundering account you should have everything you need in terms of modules and ships. And their is direct trading.
... can't use market ... Given.
... can't repair your ships ... *******s. Never knew that fitting a Armor rep costs ISK or that they consume ISK when you need to activate them.
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Franco Caruso
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Posted - 2008.04.09 12:11:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
Not to mention the fact you are stealing real life money directly from someone by doing so.
Whoa !
CCP warns you not to spend RL money on ISK purchases ( read before posting that you can do so using GTC ) directly.
You open the door by ignoring that ( the EULA, TOS etc ) and wonder what happend and THEN complain that they stole your RL money ?
Go complain to the ISK trading site that promised "safe and legal" delivery of ingame currency. Complain to the for false advertising, take them to court and not CCP for enforcing the TOS, EULA you obviously tried to ignore.
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Schani Kratnorr
x13
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Posted - 2008.04.09 12:14:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Schani Kratnorr on 09/04/2008 12:14:54
Originally by: Franco Caruso Edited by: Franco Caruso on 09/04/2008 12:01:21
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr a worrying trend of GM indifference and organisational arrogance at CCP... this is the third time within recent weeks I have heard of "mystery actions" by GMs. In at least one case I know for a fact that the "target" did nothing wrong.
Perhaps some GMs are abusing their powers to take down in-game opponents?
You have heard of mystery action. Three times ...
All the others were clever enough to cut their losses ( cash ) and try to recover.
You Sir, win todays Darwin and tinfoil hattery award. Please revert yourself to nothing.
Fun thing about this whole thread is that the OP seems to have lost interest of posting in it and that self-proclaimed Don Quixote explains his nickel & dime RL business theorema to the general public.
What it boils down to is this.
The OP, if he wants to have it further investigate, needs to file a petition.
Everybody else, STFU. How many times does a GM have to post "If it's not your problem, I am not going to discuss it with you !" (maybe not like that ... catchmedrift ) ?
We do not have ALL the facts or the "not altered" version of them since nobody will ever openly admit to having tried to hide his Real Money Trade and then getting caught by CCP pants down.
Three times in the last two weeks (read post before wating 1s and 0s ******).
The OP has probably been permabanned for dragging this into the public eye. Now that it IS here, I am as entitled to voice my opinion as anyone else. Now please for the love of god, **** off with your ******** logic, judgemental attitude, and geneal FAILURE!
I KNOW for a fact that CCP the quality of CCP GM-ship has gone downhill the last 18 months or so. YOU sir, know nothing. You're a clueless noob that should stop posting simply because you know SO little.
Baby G-sus weeps when you step outside your door. Good weather is wasted on your face, and you whole bloodline is contaminated by impure blood. You sir, are nothing but genetic waste.
Dont bother replying, you're already in my killfilter (now F.U.!!!!)
Anyone else feel like being clever?
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coolie oberon
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Posted - 2008.04.09 12:16:00 -
[146]
If I were still going to play this game I might be interested to know what alliances have funded their conquest of space with real world isk.
I sincerely doubt ccp will take assets from these alliances that were gained by this tactic. ccp seems comfortable chastizing individual players who may or may not know all the nuances of their approved method(s) of acquiring isk.
After over a year of being a good customer I am treated poorly. That is the bottom line. I dont care if I am 1 of 30,0000% of their income. I'll find something else to waste time and money on.
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Franco Caruso
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Posted - 2008.04.09 12:17:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr
Dont bother replying, you're already in my killfilter (now F.U.!!!!)
Spoken like a true forum warrior. Can't win the argument ... ignore it.
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Franco Caruso
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Posted - 2008.04.09 12:19:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr
The OP has probably been permabanned for dragging this into the public eye. Now that it IS here, I am as entitled to voice my opinion as anyone else. Now please for the love of god, **** off with your ******** logic, judgemental attitude, and geneal FAILURE!
Just so you know, in case you have the OP on the killfilter also, he just posted
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Franco Caruso
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Posted - 2008.04.09 12:25:00 -
[149]
Originally by: coolie oberon If I were still going to play this game I might be interested to know what alliances have funded their conquest of space with real world isk.
I sincerely doubt ccp will take assets from these alliances that were gained by this tactic. ccp seems comfortable chastizing individual players who may or may not know all the nuances of their approved method(s) of acquiring isk.
After over a year of being a good customer I am treated poorly. That is the bottom line. I dont care if I am 1 of 30,0000% of their income. I'll find something else to waste time and money on.
Hey there.
You should, if you are 100% certain that the ISK deducted from your wallet where legit, escalate the problem to a senior GM. That is the only way to have it solved. Furthermore, if there was foulplay involved by a GM ( which I personall doubt ) it's the only way to have it found out and rectified.
Some alliances use RL funds to collect cash, then buy GTC and sell them for ISK. That is 100% legit. Those ISK can't be removed.
You weren't treated poorly, you are most likely at the end of a chain of events that started with CCP finding a rl ISK selling operation and reversing their transactions.
That it affects you, granted but it's not against you in person. That is proven by the fact that you still can post here. You have the chance of recovering ... banned you wouldn't have.
So, escalate it.
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Poreuomai
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.04.09 12:27:00 -
[150]
Originally by: GM Krymus
Originally by: Zanpt This just happened to one of our people to the extent of about 500 mil, and the lack of explanation is totally unacceptable. As far as "pray we do not investigate further," bite me. Rather, CCP should pray we do not cut off their revenue. You can bet this will be escalated and petitions filed until we DO have a rational explanation. 60+ account holders in our alliance are alarmed by this and watching it closely. Several of us operate public websites and will be happy to post the story there if CCP doesn't shape up and start behaving professionally.
No, our guy didn't buy ISK. He sold a fully fitted BS on The Market months ago, for a reasonable price.
This is something that I feel is important to address, as you are correct that if this had happened, it would be very serious indeed. We have never reversed legitimate market orders. If someone purchases ISK and makes a legitimate trade with someone, then the ISK buyer has the ISK removed.
That is very reassuring, thank you for clarifying/stating that.
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Jelena Jinx
Gallente Northen Breeze
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Posted - 2008.04.09 12:33:00 -
[151]
Originally by: coolie oberon If I were still going to play this game I might be interested to know what alliances have funded their conquest of space with real world isk.
I sincerely doubt ccp will take assets from these alliances that were gained by this tactic. ccp seems comfortable chastizing individual players who may or may not know all the nuances of their approved method(s) of acquiring isk.
After over a year of being a good customer I am treated poorly. That is the bottom line. I dont care if I am 1 of 30,0000% of their income. I'll find something else to waste time and money on.
do you have proof that alliances use real money to buy isk and then concure space?? of not stfu.
to the rest of the ppl here defending the guy... stop buying isk or takeing "free" isk from someone... you might find yourself in negative wallet very soon if the isk has been bought.
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GM Krymus
Game Masters
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Posted - 2008.04.09 12:35:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Franco Caruso
Hey there.
You should, if you are 100% certain that the ISK deducted from your wallet where legit, escalate the problem to a senior GM. That is the only way to have it solved. Furthermore, if there was foulplay involved by a GM ( which I personall doubt ) it's the only way to have it found out and rectified.
Some alliances use RL funds to collect cash, then buy GTC and sell them for ISK. That is 100% legit. Those ISK can't be removed.
You weren't treated poorly, you are most likely at the end of a chain of events that started with CCP finding a rl ISK selling operation and reversing their transactions.
That it affects you, granted but it's not against you in person. That is proven by the fact that you still can post here. You have the chance of recovering ... banned you wouldn't have.
So, escalate it.
Whilst of course there are situations where petitions should be escalated, if you have ISK removed and feel that it was done unfairly, your first point of contact is a GM1. Cases will only be able to be escalated after a full investigation has been performed regarding the case. You can read this knowledge base article for more information.
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Jwstohr
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.04.09 12:38:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr Edited by: Schani Kratnorr on 09/04/2008 12:14:54
Originally by: Franco Caruso Edited by: Franco Caruso on 09/04/2008 12:01:21
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr a worrying trend of GM indifference and organisational arrogance at CCP... this is the third time within recent weeks I have heard of "mystery actions" by GMs. In at least one case I know for a fact that the "target" did nothing wrong.
Perhaps some GMs are abusing their powers to take down in-game opponents?
You have heard of mystery action. Three times ...
All the others were clever enough to cut their losses ( cash ) and try to recover.
You Sir, win todays Darwin and tinfoil hattery award. Please revert yourself to nothing.
Fun thing about this whole thread is that the OP seems to have lost interest of posting in it and that self-proclaimed Don Quixote explains his nickel & dime RL business theorema to the general public.
What it boils down to is this.
The OP, if he wants to have it further investigate, needs to file a petition.
Everybody else, STFU. How many times does a GM have to post "If it's not your problem, I am not going to discuss it with you !" (maybe not like that ... catchmedrift ) ?
We do not have ALL the facts or the "not altered" version of them since nobody will ever openly admit to having tried to hide his Real Money Trade and then getting caught by CCP pants down.
Baby G-sus weeps when you step outside your door. Good weather is wasted on your face, and you whole bloodline is contaminated by impure blood. You sir, are nothing but genetic waste.
Dont bother replying, you're already in my killfilter (now F.U.!!!!)
Anyone else feel like being clever?
E-thug alert!
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Zanpt
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.04.09 12:39:00 -
[154]
Originally by: GM Guard Please take into account that we have first hand information about such matters and access to logs whilst you only have the information given to you by your friend.
True, but CCP set the stage for extreme suspicion by failing to provide my guy with an explanation. He was given no information he could evaluate to have even a good clue why 500 mil ISK was removed from his account or to attempt a determination of how and where an error may have been made. It took him some time and help from friends to even figure out that it might, possibly, maybe have had something to do with a transaction months earlier. And the transfer of his 500 mil to a nonexistent char, while perhaps a convenient way for the GM to do it, only added mystery and suspicion. When he petitioned this he should certainly have received an explanation and not a brush-off.
In fact, by hiding behind "player privacy" you leave only one resolution that can settle the matter to the satisfaction of our guy's friends and associates: return of the missing ISK. Any other resolution will be incomplete and leave everyone else wondering. If he tells us he got the ISK back we'll know, in our circle, that a mistake was made and rectified. If he doesn't tell us that, we will always wonder what really went on.
Originally by: GM Guard That being said, we do not discuss individual cases on the forums.
No, of course not. That wasn't the point. I think the discussion has been useful, though, to anyone interested in these kinds of things.
Originally by: GM Guard We appreciate your concern for your friend's well being but this will not be solved here.
No, of course not, but people have a right to know that these things happen.
Originally by: GM Guard If your friend feels we missed something and wants a second opinion from a Senior Game Master he is more than welcome to it.
Yes, of course. That is what he plans to do next.
Originally by: GM Guard Best Regards, Lead GM Guard EVE Online Customer Support
Thank you for weighing in.
When the cluster is up again I'll check my old petitions. Your name is too familiar.
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.09 12:40:00 -
[155]
This thread just keeps getting better. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8) |
Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.09 12:53:00 -
[156]
More like the thread is getting dumber and dumber...When was the last time GM's took isk away from someone who acquired it completely legitimately, and in worst case, didn't return it afterwards? Oh that's right, they never did.
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Zanpt
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.04.09 13:05:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Zanpt
Originally by: GM Guard Best Regards, Lead GM Guard EVE Online Customer Support
Thank you for weighing in.
When the cluster is up again I'll check my old petitions. Your name is too familiar.
Found it. GM Guard, now Lead GM Guard, is a most gracious and diplomatic gentleman.
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.09 13:08:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Cadela Fria More like the thread is getting dumber and dumber...When was the last time GM's took isk away from someone who acquired it completely legitimately, and in worst case, didn't return it afterwards? Oh that's right, they never did.
Stop treading on everyone's righteous nerdrage! ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8) |
AltBier
Minmatar Blue. Blue Federation
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Posted - 2008.04.09 13:08:00 -
[159]
Edited by: AltBier on 09/04/2008 13:12:03
Originally by: Cadela Fria More like the thread is getting dumber and dumber...When was the last time GM's took isk away from someone who acquired it completely legitimately, and in worst case, didn't return it afterwards? Oh that's right, they never did.
To be fair, how would we know if it did happen?
Though I do find it extremely unlikely.
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Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2008.04.09 13:12:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr Edited by: Schani Kratnorr on 09/04/2008 12:14:54 Three times in the last two weeks (read post before wating 1s and 0s ******).
The OP has probably been permabanned for dragging this into the public eye. Now that it IS here, I am as entitled to voice my opinion as anyone else. Now please for the love of god, **** off with your ******** logic, judgemental attitude, and geneal FAILURE!
I KNOW for a fact that CCP the quality of CCP GM-ship has gone downhill the last 18 months or so. YOU sir, know nothing. You're a clueless noob that should stop posting simply because you know SO little.
Baby G-sus weeps when you step outside your door. Good weather is wasted on your face, and you whole bloodline is contaminated by impure blood. You sir, are nothing but genetic waste.
Dont bother replying, you're already in my killfilter (now F.U.!!!!)
Anyone else feel like being clever?
Schani looks like you are still as tactful and subtle as ever.
Your facts though contradict mine and many others as well.
Especially in this case you are as clueless as everyone who is not directly affected. And that goes too for the case you claim you know personally.
Please try not to claim you know it all, when you only know what people are telling you.
------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
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Yon89
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Posted - 2008.04.09 13:53:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Yon89 on 09/04/2008 13:55:57 I think that you most likely have no chance of getting your isk back. Mainly because if your did they would be admintting fault. Also what about all the other threds like this there was bound to be others that were inocent.
Thanks Yon89
============= SIG SIG SIG |
Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.09 13:59:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Yon89 Edited by: Yon89 on 09/04/2008 13:55:57 I think that you most likely have no chance of getting your isk back. Mainly because if your did they would be admintting fault. Also what about all the other threds like this there was bound to be others that were inocent.
Thanks Yon89
How do you know? All I've ever seen are people that come to the forums and cry wolf, and then mysteriously stop posting in the thread once people start asking for hard facts, much like the OP has done. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8) |
Nuyan Zahedi
Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Posted - 2008.04.09 14:24:00 -
[163]
This is great. It's hard to see how big the problem with ISK buying/selling actually is, but it's good to see doing something about it and coming up with "pray we do not investigate further" responds to petitions. I also think setting people's ISK back to -500M ISK really scares away other potential buyers. And if you're really treated unfairly because of some mistake, I assume it'd be corrected after a while..
And to be honest, I'd tolerate some collateral damage from CCP in these cases. -- My blog
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coolie oberon
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Posted - 2008.04.09 17:44:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Jelena Jinx
Originally by: coolie oberon If I were still going to play this game I might be interested to know what alliances have funded their conquest of space with real world isk.
I sincerely doubt ccp will take assets from these alliances that were gained by this tactic. ccp seems comfortable chastizing individual players who may or may not know all the nuances of their approved method(s) of acquiring isk.
After over a year of being a good customer I am treated poorly. That is the bottom line. I dont care if I am 1 of 30,0000% of their income. I'll find something else to waste time and money on.
do you have proof that alliances use real money to buy isk and then concure space?? of not stfu.
to the rest of the ppl here defending the guy... stop buying isk or takeing "free" isk from someone... you might find yourself in negative wallet very soon if the isk has been bought.
The fact that CCP knows alliances used real money to buy illigit isk and use it to finance wars is stated in their own posts regarding illegal isk trade. See this:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=744347
and more especially this:
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=550
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coolie oberon
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Posted - 2008.04.09 17:47:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Jelena Jinx
Originally by: coolie oberon If I were still going to play this game I might be interested to know what alliances have funded their conquest of space with real world isk.
I sincerely doubt ccp will take assets from these alliances that were gained by this tactic. ccp seems comfortable chastizing individual players who may or may not know all the nuances of their approved method(s) of acquiring isk.
After over a year of being a good customer I am treated poorly. That is the bottom line. I dont care if I am 1 of 30,0000% of their income. I'll find something else to waste time and money on.
do you have proof that alliances use real money to buy isk and then concure space?? of not stfu.
to the rest of the ppl here defending the guy... stop buying isk or takeing "free" isk from someone... you might find yourself in negative wallet very soon if the isk has been bought.
The fact that CCP knows alliances used real money to buy illigit isk and use it to finance wars is stated in their own posts regarding illegal isk trade. See this:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=744347
and more especially this:
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=550
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.09 17:47:00 -
[166]
So coolie, did or did you not buy isk? Or are you just complaining that you were treated poorly when you broke the rules? ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8) |
Rhaegor Stormborn
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2008.04.09 18:03:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Tarminic So coolie, did or did you not buy isk? Or are you just complaining that you were treated poorly when you broke the rules?
Post with your main.
Volition Cult Recruitment Post |
Ceres Starshine
Gallente Starshine Enterprises Scalar Federation
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Posted - 2008.04.09 18:37:00 -
[168]
Well i have the same situation. Loged in game and saw a minus wallet. I didnt do any illegal action to get isk. I can discuss any transaction in my wallet with a game master. The thing is I havent been warned or noone told me why that action took place. So who deciedes that an account has bought isk. What are the signs of an illegal transaction and Which of my transactions match that criteria. No explainations just grabing isk from my account is not good looking for a game company. Send away the isk buyers but dont hurt the legal players.
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.09 18:46:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Ceres Starshine Well i have the same situation. Loged in game and saw a minus wallet. I didnt do any illegal action to get isk. I can discuss any transaction in my wallet with a game master. The thing is I havent been warned or noone told me why that action took place. So who deciedes that an account has bought isk. What are the signs of an illegal transaction and Which of my transactions match that criteria. No explainations just grabing isk from my account is not good looking for a game company. Send away the isk buyers but dont hurt the legal players.
Best thing you can do in this situation is file a petition - GMs don't remove ISK reason or before investigating. Things you should ask yourself:
-Have you purchased anything on the market for the amount that was removed? If so, what was it and was it at a reasonable price? -Have you received any donations recently? ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8) |
Rhaegor Stormborn
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Posted - 2008.04.09 18:48:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Ceres Starshine Well i have the same situation. Loged in game and saw a minus wallet. I didnt do any illegal action to get isk. I can discuss any transaction in my wallet with a game master. The thing is I havent been warned or noone told me why that action took place. So who deciedes that an account has bought isk. What are the signs of an illegal transaction and Which of my transactions match that criteria. No explainations just grabing isk from my account is not good looking for a game company. Send away the isk buyers but dont hurt the legal players.
Aye, they don't say a word to you, they just take it. No email, no proof, no reasoning, just gone. Time to find a new game to play if it happens to you. Speak with your dollars and cancel your account if you do not like this sort of treatment.
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.09 18:50:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
Originally by: Ceres Starshine Well i have the same situation. Loged in game and saw a minus wallet. I didnt do any illegal action to get isk. I can discuss any transaction in my wallet with a game master. The thing is I havent been warned or noone told me why that action took place. So who deciedes that an account has bought isk. What are the signs of an illegal transaction and Which of my transactions match that criteria. No explainations just grabing isk from my account is not good looking for a game company. Send away the isk buyers but dont hurt the legal players.
Aye, they don't say a word to you, they just take it. No email, no proof, no reasoning, just gone. Time to find a new game to play if it happens to you. Speak with your dollars and cancel your account if you do not like this sort of treatment.
Wouldn't they already have done that if they wanted to leave the game? ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8) |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.04.09 18:50:00 -
[172]
Originally by: GM Krymus
Whilst of course there are situations where petitions should be escalated, if you have ISK removed and feel that it was done unfairly, your first point of contact is a GM1. Cases will only be able to be escalated after a full investigation has been performed regarding the case. You can read this knowledge base article for more information.
Hang on...
Originally by: YOU I can assure you that ISK is not removed without an investigation taking place beforehand
Originally by: CCP Prism X Seriously, if you know you're totally innocent and did everything by the book; You should escalate a petition to a senior GM. He'll go over the entirity of your logs and take actions accordingly.
Originally by: GM Guard If your friend feels we missed something and wants a second opinion from a Senior Game Master he is more than welcome to it.
So, no ISK is removed before a case investigated, but you can't esculate it until it had been investigates, which it was before it was removed, but ... hang on, that's a circular arguement.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Ceres Starshine
Gallente Starshine Enterprises Scalar Federation
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Posted - 2008.04.09 18:51:00 -
[173]
What i see is the donations i make to other players (All in my corp) are reversed. So I am selling isk to my corpmates i guess :)
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.09 18:54:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Ceres Starshine What i see is the donations i make to other players (All in my corp) are reversed. So I am selling isk to my corpmates i guess :)
They probably looked at a pattern of transactions in your wallet that happened to match that of an ISK seller - petition it and I'd bet that you'll get it back. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8) |
Ceres Starshine
Gallente Starshine Enterprises Scalar Federation
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Posted - 2008.04.09 18:56:00 -
[175]
I already petitioned it but it usualy takes 4 or 5 days to get an answer. will wait for it.
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Ceres Starshine
Gallente Starshine Enterprises Scalar Federation
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Posted - 2008.04.09 18:57:00 -
[176]
I already petitioned it but it usualy takes 4 or 5 days to get an answer. will wait for it with a minus account till that day.
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Decarus
Amarr Mind and Matter
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Posted - 2008.04.09 19:00:00 -
[177]
I must have gone stupid from reading this all. I could have sworn you just said you were left in a minus after transactions where you gave ISK away were reversed.
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helpmeconcord
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Posted - 2008.04.09 19:01:00 -
[178]
i have had a simular thing happen were i loaned 500 mil isk to a friend who then payed me back....after a few months that guys account was found to have bought isk and i was deducted 500 mil isk.... so loan 500 mil isk that was gained by ratting and mining and then get it returned by the player the means how he got it are not my consirn as i dont have any way at all to check on it, i was only happy to get my isk back and then GM's took it. After some discutions on petitions with GMs and so a lead gm.... they provided me with a whole lot of useless links and explanations about isk buying and eula and all that crap..but again my isk...fair gained loaned out recieved back and then taken away by a gm only leaves me to observe and witness the lack of there logic in those cases.. go and deal with the source GMs and dont make victims out of people that gain there isk fair.
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Ceres Starshine
Gallente Starshine Enterprises Scalar Federation
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Posted - 2008.04.09 19:08:00 -
[179]
Well if the logic for CCP is remove the isk from whom we got suspicious, if they did illegal activity they wont do anythingş if they are innocent they will petition it is not a good idea. I am playing the game for fun. This thing ruined all my game experience and i am losing time to send petitions writing on forums other than playing.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.04.09 19:30:00 -
[180]
Somehow I start to belief that all those caught ISK buyers now crawl out of the woodwork and make up remotely unfair stories about getting ISK removed to let out their contemt at CCP for whipping them with their own skin after for illegal ISK transfers.... -------- Ideas for: Mining Clouds
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Calvin Firenze
Department of Defence Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.09 19:31:00 -
[181]
I've seen cases myself where player A has 1bil or more removed from his wallet and claims a friend or his gf bought him a "birthday present."
All of it is total bull****, of course.
I don't know about everyone else, but if I log in to 1bil in my wallet more than I had when I logged off for the night, red lights would start flashing and I'd start scouring my transaction logs to see wtf I sold to make that kinda isk. Granted, this has never happened to me, but if anyone's gf is like mine, she has no clue what eve is about, all she sees it as is that waste of time with the pretty flashing lights that keeps me up all night. Also, if you have an ingame friend who would pay for 1bil or more isk for you, you should start worrying about a stalker.
I'm such a terrible forum *****, my login timed out while I was writing this.
____
Originally by: Morrow Disca You sir/madam, need a big cup of STFU.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.04.09 19:31:00 -
[182]
CCP, it's obvious that you need to make a quick and easy change to the way your GM's operate.
Do not deduct funds from a characters account without sending them an EVEmail notification
A simple and quick: "Our logs show that on Tuesday March 17th you received 680million isk from character fwgsdty in an RMT. These funds have been removed"
That would do it, don't you think? That would tell people what on earth was going on. If they were innocent of the charges, they'd at least know what the charges were and have something in hand to take to the GM. If they were guilty as charged, they'd be in awe of CCP's incredible sleuthing powers and go and sin no more.
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.09 19:33:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Ulstan CCP, it's obvious that you need to make a quick and easy change to the way your GM's operate.
Do not deduct funds from a characters account without sending them an EVEmail notification
A simple and quick: "Our logs show that on Tuesday March 17th you received 680million isk from character fwgsdty in an RMT. These funds have been removed"
That would do it, don't you think? That would tell people what on earth was going on. If they were innocent of the charges, they'd at least know what the charges were and have something in hand to take to the GM. If they were guilty as charged, they'd be in awe of CCP's incredible sleuthing powers and go and sin no more.
This would be pretty good actually - of course I'm sure plenty of buyers would still file petitions and claim innocence, but it's better than mysteriously having ISK deducted from your wallet. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8) |
Rhaegor Stormborn
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Posted - 2008.04.09 19:38:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Ulstan CCP, it's obvious that you need to make a quick and easy change to the way your GM's operate.
Do not deduct funds from a characters account without sending them an EVEmail notification
A simple and quick: "Our logs show that on Tuesday March 17th you received 680million isk from character fwgsdty in an RMT. These funds have been removed"
That would do it, don't you think? That would tell people what on earth was going on. If they were innocent of the charges, they'd at least know what the charges were and have something in hand to take to the GM. If they were guilty as charged, they'd be in awe of CCP's incredible sleuthing powers and go and sin no more.
This would be pretty good actually - of course I'm sure plenty of buyers would still file petitions and claim innocence, but it's better than mysteriously having ISK deducted from your wallet.
And where is CCP's proof for anything in the first place? Vague connections and log files which never show anything anyway?
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.09 19:40:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn And where is CCP's proof for anything in the first place? Vague connections and log files which never show anything anyway?
What would you propose? ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8) |
Rhaegor Stormborn
|
Posted - 2008.04.09 19:45:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn And where is CCP's proof for anything in the first place? Vague connections and log files which never show anything anyway?
What would you propose?
Proof given to the person they accuse. Who does CCP think they are? The Gestapo? KGB?
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.09 19:49:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Proof given to the person they accuse. Who does CCP think they are? The Gestapo? KGB?
But how exactly can they provide "proof?" If they wanted to lie they could just falsify their logs or make them up. At which point you would demand a further level of proof until the only thing you'd be satisfied with is if they flew you to London and printed out the server logs directly from the facility.
Also, invocation of Godwin's Law. ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8) |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.04.09 19:54:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Tarminic But how exactly can they provide "proof?"
Giev to kouncel to do it? --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Recruitment -KB- |
Karentaki
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.04.09 20:12:00 -
[189]
To all the people saying they will cancel their <insert large number> accounts because of <insert general hate about CCP>:
Can I have your stuff?
ALSO: Posting in a Jenny thread :D
On the other hand...
Would you trust something with teeth but no eyes!?!?!
Drainpipe of Doom pilot! |
astowv
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.09 20:40:00 -
[190]
no need to play anymore. This thread won EvE......
----
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Cassandra Beckinsale
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Posted - 2008.04.09 22:50:00 -
[191]
Originally by: F'nog
Originally by: CCP Prism X I like these threads, they provide me with interesting logs to read when I'm bored.
Seriously, if you know you're totally innocent and did everything by the book; You should escalate a petition to a senior GM. He'll go over the entirity of your logs and take actions accordingly.
I call H4X on this post. The "dev" posted without a blue bar showing on the main page. Obviously something malfeasant is occurring. I'll be sending a mail to Internal Affairs shortly.
Hope you understand that Internal Affair is TOTAL under control of CCP. So Internal Affair cannot absolutely acy against any CCP.
Internal Affair has been created only to make you feel better.
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Save You
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Posted - 2008.04.10 01:02:00 -
[192]
I'm not sure how to escalate this to a "senior GM", but the reply I got instantly was a cookie cutter "I'm sure you would rather us take isk than ban you for something you din't do." I'm going to try and push this forward, hell I'm leaving for the middle east for a year in less than a month. Maybe they ban me, maybe not?
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Scavok
UA Industry Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.10 01:14:00 -
[193]
Edited by: Scavok on 10/04/2008 01:14:56
Originally by: Abrazzar Somehow I start to belief that all those caught ISK buyers now crawl out of the woodwork and make up remotely unfair stories about getting ISK removed to let out their contemt at CCP for whipping them with their own skin after for illegal ISK transfers....
These stories are extremely common, especially on private forums like goonswarm's where there is a huge amount of time card trade and discussions with GMs can be posted. Despite what they claim in this thread, CCP's policy is something along the lines of act first, don't explain anything, and ask questions later only if petitioned a few dozen times.
Typically it's from people unknowingly selling GTCs to people who are purchasing isk, where the purchaser gets banned and the GTC seller who did everything perfectly legitimate gets punished with a transaction reversal. Sometimes it's more typical things like someone selling a character to an isk purchaser. A typical result is someone's character becomes completely unplayable with a negative wallet, the petition process takes weeks to months if you don't know anybody in iceland, and you certainly don't get your subscription time reimbursed.
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Tim Bit
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Posted - 2008.04.10 01:18:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Save You I'm not sure how to escalate this to a "senior GM", but the reply I got instantly was a cookie cutter "I'm sure you would rather us take isk than ban you for something you din't do." I'm going to try and push this forward, hell I'm leaving for the middle east for a year in less than a month. Maybe they ban me, maybe not?
Say "I want to escalate this petition now"
And then be prepared to wait 3 months for a senior GM to answer you.
If it really bothers you and you're really innocent, and they really don't care to help you, cancel your account. Seriously. I probably would.
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Col Romal
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Posted - 2008.04.10 01:20:00 -
[195]
Edited by: Col Romal on 10/04/2008 01:20:24 I probably will sell the character at a discount to someone, I'm not going to be playing it anyways. I just know the last time I got out of eve I regretted it and wanted to get back in. I replied without asking for escalation yet, that will come next.
Bah, wrong character. Oh well.
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Thorradin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.10 01:29:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
Originally by: Kerdrak Well, comparating EVE and RL: if you kill a guy in RL you end in jail.
Not if he stole your jetcan full of ore.
Pod the next guy who steals from your can and see if CONCORD let it slide.
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Avaricia
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.04.10 01:51:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr *nerdrage explosion*
Anyone else feel like being clever?
ooooo! ooooo! do me next! me me me!
just try and collect your tears into this here cup for me to drink.
reign of terror griefmatic |
Zanpt
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.04.10 03:59:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Save You I'm not sure how to escalate this to a "senior GM", but the reply I got instantly was a cookie cutter "I'm sure you would rather us take isk than ban you for something you din't do." I'm going to try and push this forward, hell I'm leaving for the middle east for a year in less than a month. Maybe they ban me, maybe not?
If a GM actually wrote that or something close to it, that is a GM who should be fired on the spot. |
SoftRevolution
|
Posted - 2008.04.10 04:48:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Scavok Edited by: Scavok on 10/04/2008 01:19:42
Originally by: Abrazzar Somehow I start to belief that all those caught ISK buyers now crawl out of the woodwork and make up remotely unfair stories about getting ISK removed to let out their contemt at CCP for whipping them with their own skin after for illegal ISK transfers....
These stories are extremely common, especially on private forums like goonswarm's where there is a huge amount of time card trade and discussions with GMs can be posted. Despite what they claim in this thread, CCP's policy is something along the lines of act first, don't explain anything, and ask questions later only if petitioned a few dozen times.
For goonswarm it's historically been most common for people to legitimately purchase a timecard and then unknowingly sell it to someone who purchased isk. The purchaser gets banned and the GTC seller gets the isk reversed, meaning he lost however much real life money he spent on the GTC. Sometimes it's more typical things like someone unknowingly selling a character to an isk purchaser. A typical result is someone's character becomes completely unplayable with a negative wallet, and after a few weeks or months of petitions, emails, and phone calls, the isk is then put back with an apology, but you certainly don't get your subscription time reimbursed.
Oh come on.
It's not hard to spot is it?
fgdhdghsgs wants to buy GTCs by the 20 load?
Nothing suspicious about that. Nosirree.
People getting ISK deducted remind me of FPS players getting banned for h4Xing.
It wasn't them. Their cousin did it. They have no idea. It's a false positive. OMG OMG the GMs are jerks and they were so reasonable in dealing with them.
What do they say about prisons being full of "innocent" men? EVE RELATED CONTENT |
The Socialworker
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.04.10 05:35:00 -
[200]
Edited by: The Socialworker on 10/04/2008 05:40:40
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Ulstan CCP, it's obvious that you need to make a quick and easy change to the way your GM's operate.
Do not deduct funds from a characters account without sending them an EVEmail notification
A simple and quick: "Our logs show that on Tuesday March 17th you received 680million isk from character fwgsdty in an RMT. These funds have been removed"
That would do it, don't you think? That would tell people what on earth was going on. If they were innocent of the charges, they'd at least know what the charges were and have something in hand to take to the GM. If they were guilty as charged, they'd be in awe of CCP's incredible sleuthing powers and go and sin no more.
This would be pretty good actually - of course I'm sure plenty of buyers would still file petitions and claim innocence, but it's better than mysteriously having ISK deducted from your wallet.
There is an obvious problem with this though. ISK buyers and sellers would very quickly work out which players and isk transfer methods were currently getting away with it, and which were currently 'hot'. Even if you did give details of times, players etc. a combination of jonny isk buyers wounded e-peen in front of his corpies, and a belief that there is no actual 100% proof, will mean that jonny will still escalate it and argue the toss that he is innocent and just very unlucky. Edit- I'm wispering, and it looks like I still am.
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Batwigg
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Posted - 2008.04.10 05:48:00 -
[201]
This thread is full of delicious ISK buyer tears.
No guys, you did not receive that money from a friend who wanted to help you out in the game, and you did not sell some stuff to another dude who turned out to be a ISK seller. Stop lying to yourself. You went to a ISK selling website, put in your credit card details and your character name, and then told them how much you wanted. Stop trying to get some sympathy here, you are all lying, and you know it.
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Durzel
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.04.10 06:40:00 -
[202]
Making people negative does seem kinda crappy though imo, at least if you reset them to 0 and they still had ammo or whatever they could work their way back up (slowly). If you're minus-whatever what choices do you have - cancel subscription or sell GTCs, that's basically it.
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SeismicForce
The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.10 06:47:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Durzel Making people negative does seem kinda crappy though imo, at least if you reset them to 0 and they still had ammo or whatever they could work their way back up (slowly). If you're minus-whatever what choices do you have - cancel subscription or sell GTCs, that's basically it.
What good would that do? I buy a billion isk, buy a carrier and have 10,000 left over. By setting my wallet to 0 all I lose is 10k. No, the GM's remove the isk you received from the illegal transaction, and since you have probably already spent it, you land deep in red.
Originally by: Allisie In a recent interview, a dev mentioned that ships and skills cause lag and will be removed in EVE 2.
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Durzel
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.04.10 07:02:00 -
[204]
Edited by: Durzel on 10/04/2008 07:02:56
Originally by: SeismicForce
Originally by: Durzel Making people negative does seem kinda crappy though imo, at least if you reset them to 0 and they still had ammo or whatever they could work their way back up (slowly). If you're minus-whatever what choices do you have - cancel subscription or sell GTCs, that's basically it.
What good would that do? I buy a billion isk, buy a carrier and have 10,000 left over. By setting my wallet to 0 all I lose is 10k. No, the GM's remove the isk you received from the illegal transaction, and since you have probably already spent it, you land deep in red.
Good point. I don't think it's necessarily safe to assume however that every situation is as clinical as this, and in situations where someone no longer has (either destroyed or otherwise lost) whatever it was they originally bought the net result is the same - they're screwed.
I'm just playing Devils Advocate really - forcing someone to buy GTCs to get out of the hole seems almost like a racket, it would be more humane just to ban the recipient outright.
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Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2008.04.10 07:02:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Durzel Making people negative does seem kinda crappy though imo, at least if you reset them to 0 and they still had ammo or whatever they could work their way back up (slowly). If you're minus-whatever what choices do you have - cancel subscription or sell GTCs, that's basically it.
Don't do the crime if you can't pay the price.
It's only fair that they should lose the isk they illegally bought. The harsh decision would be to remove the ISK and the assets that were bought after the illegal purchase of ISK ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2008.04.10 09:05:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Durzel Edited by: Durzel on 10/04/2008 07:02:56
Originally by: SeismicForce
Originally by: Durzel Making people negative does seem kinda crappy though imo, at least if you reset them to 0 and they still had ammo or whatever they could work their way back up (slowly). If you're minus-whatever what choices do you have - cancel subscription or sell GTCs, that's basically it.
What good would that do? I buy a billion isk, buy a carrier and have 10,000 left over. By setting my wallet to 0 all I lose is 10k. No, the GM's remove the isk you received from the illegal transaction, and since you have probably already spent it, you land deep in red.
Good point. I don't think it's necessarily safe to assume however that every situation is as clinical as this, and in situations where someone no longer has (either destroyed or otherwise lost) whatever it was they originally bought the net result is the same - they're screwed.
I'm just playing Devils Advocate really - forcing someone to buy GTCs to get out of the hole seems almost like a racket, it would be more humane just to ban the recipient outright.
They're not forced to. They have the option to. They can also:
Sell assets Receive donations from friends, either ISK or assets Scam Pirate Mine Quit
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Cruthensis
Gallente Farmer Killers United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2008.04.10 10:18:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Giev to kouncel to do it?
Jenny: what's WRONG with you?! You just seem to get weirder and more incoherent.
It's "give". It's "council". And, if you mean the CSM, then I doubt they're going to be given unfettered access to the server logs to trace RMT-ISK sales.
Oh why do I bother?
1. Buy Vexor 2. Fit for Gank 3. Suicide ISK farmer 4. Grind sec 5. see 1. |
Barzam
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.04.10 10:24:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Cruthensis
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Giev to kouncel to do it?
Jenny: what's WRONG with you?! You just seem to get weirder and more incoherent.
Sold his account again, obviously. Why this account keeps passing from forum troll to forum troll all the time, I cannot imagine.
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Poreuomai
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.04.10 10:59:00 -
[209]
Edited by: Poreuomai on 10/04/2008 11:12:36 Edited by: Poreuomai on 10/04/2008 10:59:47
Originally by: Scavok ... For goonswarm it's historically been most common for people to legitimately purchase a timecard and then unknowingly sell it to someone who purchased isk. The purchaser gets banned and the GTC seller gets the isk reversed, meaning he lost however much real life money he spent on the GTC. ...
Well that would completely contradict the assurance given by GM Krymus which I quoted here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=744301&page=6#152
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Zurrar
|
Posted - 2008.04.10 11:05:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Karentaki To all the people saying they will cancel their <insert large number> accounts because of <insert general hate about CCP>:
Can I have your stuff?
ALSO: Posting in a Jenny thread :D
you win this one...
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Omega Man
The Geddy Foundation
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Posted - 2008.04.10 11:42:00 -
[211]
I am shocked and appalled about all this.
8 pages of drivel and maybe half a dozen posts from people that may or may not know what is going on.
Can the rest of you make good on the threats and cancel your accounts. -
- Happy user of CAOD troll cleaner http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=584345 |
Sale gueule
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Posted - 2008.04.10 11:53:00 -
[212]
All of that seems ridiculous in both way.
I can't imagine CCP takes back hundreds of million without being sure of the legality of the transactions.
I can't imagine either they take back money from a character who made money with illegal money who comes from a friend.
I mean, a friend bought 1b with real money. I know this guy since now 2 years and i need 600m for manufacture things, but obviously i don't know it's illegal money. And i give back the 600m to my mate
I deeply don't believe they will take me 600m more ... At least, if i don t give the money back to my mate because he makes a generous donation, sure those isk have to be removed.
It's also logic that if you buy a character with illegal money, this money has to be removed. Just buy a character with 0 isk and 0 assets
Most of us worked really hard, mining crappy ore in a frigate, or killing NPC frigates in high sec belts or doing crappy lvl 1 missions. Then do the same !!!
You should be happy to be directly able to ride good ships, and do not wait years of training to fit a neutron blaster cannon T2
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Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2008.04.10 11:56:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Kerdrak
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn
Originally by: Kerdrak Why a GM should punish me for receiving isk other one bought? a GM would ban to the guy who bought the isk.
If you received forged monies in RL, the FBI would arrest the perpetrators, and then relieve you of the ill-gotten loot.
Well, comparating EVE and RL: if you kill a guy in RL you end in jail.
GM real? CHECK Player who bought ISK real? CHECK OP real? CHECK
Sorry to break it to you but this incident took place in Real Life.
You guys play too much Eve!
Bandures > Tommy, you like a cowboy harry ) |
Gravecall
|
Posted - 2008.04.10 12:16:00 -
[214]
Originally by: SoftRevolution
Originally by: Scavok Edited by: Scavok on 10/04/2008 01:19:42 These stories are extremely common, especially on private forums like goonswarm's where there is a huge amount of time card trade and discussions with GMs can be posted. Despite what they claim in this thread, CCP's policy is something along the lines of act first, don't explain anything, and ask questions later only if petitioned a few dozen times.
For goonswarm it's historically been most common for people to legitimately purchase a timecard and then unknowingly sell it to someone who purchased isk. The purchaser gets banned and the GTC seller gets the isk reversed, meaning he lost however much real life money he spent on the GTC. Sometimes it's more typical things like someone unknowingly selling a character to an isk purchaser. A typical result is someone's character becomes completely unplayable with a negative wallet, and after a few weeks or months of petitions, emails, and phone calls, the isk is then put back with an apology, but you certainly don't get your subscription time reimbursed.
Oh come on.
It's not hard to spot is it?
fgdhdghsgs wants to buy GTCs by the 20 load?
Nothing suspicious about that. Nosirree.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=726545
My first time trading GTCs for isk so I assumed generating fake accounts to mask what account you were buying the code for was something paranoid folks just did... Surely since I used the secure trade thing CCP set up I'll be ok? Otherwise the secure trade system is not worth the memory it's coded on.
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Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2008.04.10 12:39:00 -
[215]
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn And where is CCP's proof for anything in the first place? Vague connections and log files which never show anything anyway?
What would you propose?
Proof given to the person they accuse. Who does CCP think they are? The Gestapo? KGB?
Try Creators of the EVE Universe.. When was the last time the GM's took away isk that wasn't illegitimate, and failed to return them? That's right, they never did..Name me one instance..just one.
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Poreuomai
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.04.10 12:53:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Cadela Fria Name me one instance..just one.
Erm .. maybe: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=744301
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Save You
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Posted - 2008.04.10 13:00:00 -
[217]
Update time, the GM's returned the isk when they checked and verified that the isk buying took place before the valid character transfer, and apologized for the inconvenience. If you think this may have happened to you, maybe you should look into it and give them the dates off of your account payment page.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.10 13:33:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Gravecall
Originally by: SoftRevolution
Originally by: Scavok Edited by: Scavok on 10/04/2008 01:19:42 These stories are extremely common, especially on private forums like goonswarm's where there is a huge amount of time card trade and discussions with GMs can be posted. Despite what they claim in this thread, CCP's policy is something along the lines of act first, don't explain anything, and ask questions later only if petitioned a few dozen times.
For goonswarm it's historically been most common for people to legitimately purchase a timecard and then unknowingly sell it to someone who purchased isk. The purchaser gets banned and the GTC seller gets the isk reversed, meaning he lost however much real life money he spent on the GTC. Sometimes it's more typical things like someone unknowingly selling a character to an isk purchaser. A typical result is someone's character becomes completely unplayable with a negative wallet, and after a few weeks or months of petitions, emails, and phone calls, the isk is then put back with an apology, but you certainly don't get your subscription time reimbursed.
Oh come on.
It's not hard to spot is it?
fgdhdghsgs wants to buy GTCs by the 20 load?
Nothing suspicious about that. Nosirree.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=726545
My first time trading GTCs for isk so I assumed generating fake accounts to mask what account you were buying the code for was something paranoid folks just did... Surely since I used the secure trade thing CCP set up I'll be ok? Otherwise the secure trade system is not worth the memory it's coded on.
to an alt on your account is one thing, to another account is different
as credited time goes to the account the character is on.
If i wanted to buy gtcs in secret i would just make another character on my account and name him Nota chainsawalt
okay so the name would be slightly better
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance The Last Stand
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Posted - 2008.04.10 13:36:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Poreuomai
Originally by: Cadela Fria Name me one instance..just one.
Erm .. maybe: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=744301
Note that the OP has never said in this thread that he didn't buy ISK...I'd say that if he were innocent he'd probably want to clear that up, eh? ---------------- Tarminic - 34 Million SP in Forum Warfare Play EVE: Downtime Madness v0.81 (Updated 4/8) |
Rhaegor Stormborn
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Posted - 2008.04.10 13:45:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Omega Man I am shocked and appalled about all this.
8 pages of drivel and maybe half a dozen posts from people that may or may not know what is going on.
Can the rest of you make good on the threats and cancel your accounts.
Done x 2.
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PhantomMajor
Minmatar De-Medusa Industries.
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Posted - 2008.04.10 14:23:00 -
[221]
ok we know that GM's remove purchased isk... but they have not mention assets? if they only confiscate isk but not assets then does this mean you can simply dodge round the isk ban by buying the items you want and then selling them to get the isk?
i have seen several sites that not only offer isk but every ship, implant and faction item you could want. for further information visit my website:
www.im_gonna_rob_you_blind_ccp.com
or email me at: [email protected]
ROFL
Ladies and gentlemen, we will shortly be experiencing some exploding followed by some crashing...so i'd hold on if i were you! |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.04.10 15:19:00 -
[222]
CCP, it's obvious that you need to make a quick and easy change to the way your GM's operate.
Do not deduct funds from a characters account without sending them an EVEmail notification
A simple and quick: "Our logs show that on Tuesday March 17th you received 680million isk from character fwgsdty in an RMT. These funds have been removed"
That would do it, don't you think? That would tell people what on earth was going on. If they were innocent of the charges, they'd at least know what the charges were and have something in hand to take to the GM. If they were guilty as charged, they'd be in awe of CCP's incredible sleuthing powers and go and sin no more.
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Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.10 16:01:00 -
[223]
Originally by: Ulstan CCP, it's obvious that you need to make a quick and easy change to the way your GM's operate.
Do not deduct funds from a characters account without sending them an EVEmail notification
A simple and quick: "Our logs show that on Tuesday March 17th you received 680million isk from character fwgsdty in an RMT. These funds have been removed"
That would do it, don't you think? That would tell people what on earth was going on. If they were innocent of the charges, they'd at least know what the charges were and have something in hand to take to the GM. If they were guilty as charged, they'd be in awe of CCP's incredible sleuthing powers and go and sin no more.
Ulstan, it's obvious that GM's need to continue to operate the way they do right now, as it has worked without fail so far.
Deducting without notification seems perfectly natural to me. 9/10 I'll bet you the person with the lost money, knows EXACTLY why they lost the money, they're just not willing to accept it.
What you suggest won't do it. People already know what "on earth is going". If they are innocent of the charges they'll escalate and it'll be resolved and has worked so far without fail. Again, name me one instance where this hasn't worked just fine. If they are guilty, they'll either accept the punishment or come to the forum to whine in hopes that massive outroar from people like you, will get them their isk back, or at the very least, give CCP a hard time.
In other words, nothing of what you say is obvious, quite on the contrary.
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Ascuris Wurm
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Posted - 2008.04.10 18:21:00 -
[224]
IF a player really did not buy ISK, has no idea what happened, and IF a GM says the ISK was ill-gotten because of the information they have, then another plausible explanation is that the character was the victim of a keylogger, or something similar and someone evil used their account to do their dastardly deeds... BUT then the ISK transfer to the character of the real culprit should show up in the journal...
So... I dunno... I'll shut up now...
"It's never too late to be what you could have been" -George Eliot
Especially in Eve-Online
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Poreuomai
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.04.10 22:59:00 -
[225]
Edited by: Poreuomai on 10/04/2008 22:59:13
Originally by: Tarminic
Note that the OP has never said in this thread that he didn't buy ISK...I'd say that if he were innocent he'd probably want to clear that up, eh?
I didn't just mean the OP.
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Illwill Bill
Boennerup Banden Boner Bandits
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Posted - 2008.04.11 00:07:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Ulstan CCP, it's obvious that you need to make a quick and easy change to the way your GM's operate.
Do not deduct funds from a characters account without sending them an EVEmail notification
A simple and quick: "Our logs show that on Tuesday March 17th you received 680million isk from character fwgsdty in an RMT. These funds have been removed"
That would do it, don't you think? That would tell people what on earth was going on. If they were innocent of the charges, they'd at least know what the charges were and have something in hand to take to the GM. If they were guilty as charged, they'd be in awe of CCP's incredible sleuthing powers and go and sin no more.
What he said. ____________________ Honk if you think that I'm a n00b |
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GM Tacgnol
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Posted - 2008.04.11 00:28:00 -
[227]
Edited by: GM Tacgnol on 11/04/2008 00:30:12
Originally by: Scavok Edited by: Scavok on 10/04/2008 01:19:42
Originally by: Abrazzar Somehow I start to belief that all those caught ISK buyers now crawl out of the woodwork and make up remotely unfair stories about getting ISK removed to let out their contemt at CCP for whipping them with their own skin after for illegal ISK transfers....
These stories are extremely common, especially on private forums like goonswarm's where there is a huge amount of time card trade and discussions with GMs can be posted. Despite what they claim in this thread, CCP's policy is something along the lines of act first, don't explain anything, and ask questions later only if petitioned a few dozen times.
For goonswarm it's historically been most common for people to legitimately purchase a timecard and then unknowingly sell it to someone who purchased isk. The purchaser gets banned and the GTC seller gets the isk reversed, meaning he lost however much real life money he spent on the GTC. Sometimes it's more typical things like someone unknowingly selling a character to an isk purchaser. A typical result is someone's character becomes completely unplayable with a negative wallet, and after a few weeks or months of petitions, emails, and phone calls, the isk is then put back with an apology, but you certainly don't get your subscription time reimbursed.
I'd just like to chime in on this point - We do not, nor will we ever, remove ISK received for selling timecards, IF the seller uses the secure method to do so. If a player sells timecards outside of the secure method, then you are at risk of having your ISK removed if the seller turns out to be a ISK seller.
If you sell GTCs, please do so through the secure method, and your sale will be 100% safe and secure. Doing so in any other way puts you at risk.
Originally by: Save You Update time, the GM's returned the isk when they checked and verified that the isk buying took place before the valid character transfer, and apologized for the inconvenience. If you think this may have happened to you, maybe you should look into it and give them the dates off of your account payment page.
If we remove ISK from a character that you legally purchased (again, through the secure system), petition it immediately. It takes us maybe two minutes to verify your story, and the ISK will then be returned. I'm glad to hear that we could help you with this.
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CoRrUpTiGe
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Posted - 2008.04.11 00:40:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Scavok Edited by: Scavok on 10/04/2008 01:19:42
Originally by: Abrazzar Somehow I start to belief that all those caught ISK buyers now crawl out of the woodwork and make up remotely unfair stories about getting ISK removed to let out their contemt at CCP for whipping them with their own skin after for illegal ISK transfers....
These stories are extremely common, especially on private forums like goonswarm's where there is a huge amount of time card trade and discussions with GMs can be posted. Despite what they claim in this thread, CCP's policy is something along the lines of act first, don't explain anything, and ask questions later only if petitioned a few dozen times.
For goonswarm it's historically been most common for people to legitimately purchase a timecard and then unknowingly sell it to someone who purchased isk. The purchaser gets banned and the GTC seller gets the isk reversed, meaning he lost however much real life money he spent on the GTC. Sometimes it's more typical things like someone unknowingly selling a character to an isk purchaser. A typical result is someone's character becomes completely unplayable with a negative wallet, and after a few weeks or months of petitions, emails, and phone calls, the isk is then put back with an apology, but you certainly don't get your subscription time reimbursed.
There is alot of truth and experience in this perspective.
CCP actions are reprehensible and their standard of what constitutes "proof" and "guilt" is horrifically mangled from anything that resembles a sensible and fair standard.
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Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.11 00:45:00 -
[229]
Originally by: CoRrUpTiGe
CCP actions are reprehensible and their standard of what constitutes "proof" and "guilt" is horrifically mangled from anything that resembles a sensible and fair standard.
And you know this...how?
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CoRrUpTiGe
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Posted - 2008.04.11 00:48:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Cadela Fria
Originally by: Ulstan CCP, it's obvious that you need to make a quick and easy change to the way your GM's operate.
Do not deduct funds from a characters account without sending them an EVEmail notification
A simple and quick: "Our logs show that on Tuesday March 17th you received 680million isk from character fwgsdty in an RMT. These funds have been removed"
That would do it, don't you think? That would tell people what on earth was going on. If they were innocent of the charges, they'd at least know what the charges were and have something in hand to take to the GM. If they were guilty as charged, they'd be in awe of CCP's incredible sleuthing powers and go and sin no more.
Ulstan, it's obvious that GM's need to continue to operate the way they do right now, as it has worked without fail so far.
Deducting without notification seems perfectly natural to me. 9/10 I'll bet you the person with the lost money, knows EXACTLY why they lost the money, they're just not willing to accept it.
What you suggest won't do it. People already know what "on earth is going". If they are innocent of the charges they'll escalate and it'll be resolved and has worked so far without fail. Again, name me one instance where this hasn't worked just fine. If they are guilty, they'll either accept the punishment or come to the forum to whine in hopes that massive outroar from people like you, will get them their isk back, or at the very least, give CCP a hard time.
In other words, nothing of what you say is obvious, quite on the contrary.
And I think that you are one of those people that think that the cops only arrest guilty people?????
The assembled skeptical crowds says: ..."whose the guilty one around here" Cadela says: "Why it's the one in the handcuffs that the police brought in over there!" *the crowd gasps in awe of Cadela's apparent wisdom* The assembled crowd replies: "But how do we know for sure they are guilty?!!" Cadela retorts: "Why, it's because they are the ones with the handcuffs on you dolt!"
Do I need go futher?
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Thorradin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.11 00:49:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Zanpt
Originally by: Cassy Dark Close that petition now... Just do it... It's bloody stupid to file a petition just to "call attention" to someone elses petition... The only thing you'll achive is cloging up the system for legit petitions and annoing the GMs... I fail to see how an annoied GM can help you in this case, especially since it isnt your case...
Dear CCP fanboi:
It's about time that CCP and its GMs began to think about annoyed players. You know, the players who pay all their bills. Maybe if someone in your family loses $500 to a mysterious bank debit without explanation, you'll refrain from "annoying" the bank's customer disservice because "it isn't your case." What's bloody stupid is regarding CCP and GMs as if they were gods. They are human and have a lot they can improve on. I hope they do.
Get lost.
If your family member doesn't have you on their account the bank is going to tell you have them call and then proceed to ignore you even if you don't hang up. I'd hope CCP doesn't discuss matters with a 'friend' that petitions about you considering that would be a violation of priacy of the 'friend'.
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Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.11 01:00:00 -
[232]
Originally by: CoRrUpTiGe
Originally by: Cadela Fria
Originally by: Ulstan CCP, it's obvious that you need to make a quick and easy change to the way your GM's operate.
Do not deduct funds from a characters account without sending them an EVEmail notification
A simple and quick: "Our logs show that on Tuesday March 17th you received 680million isk from character fwgsdty in an RMT. These funds have been removed"
That would do it, don't you think? That would tell people what on earth was going on. If they were innocent of the charges, they'd at least know what the charges were and have something in hand to take to the GM. If they were guilty as charged, they'd be in awe of CCP's incredible sleuthing powers and go and sin no more.
Ulstan, it's obvious that GM's need to continue to operate the way they do right now, as it has worked without fail so far.
Deducting without notification seems perfectly natural to me. 9/10 I'll bet you the person with the lost money, knows EXACTLY why they lost the money, they're just not willing to accept it.
What you suggest won't do it. People already know what "on earth is going". If they are innocent of the charges they'll escalate and it'll be resolved and has worked so far without fail. Again, name me one instance where this hasn't worked just fine. If they are guilty, they'll either accept the punishment or come to the forum to whine in hopes that massive outroar from people like you, will get them their isk back, or at the very least, give CCP a hard time.
In other words, nothing of what you say is obvious, quite on the contrary.
And I think that you are one of those people that think that the cops only arrest guilty people?????
The assembled skeptical crowds says: ..."whose the guilty one around here" Cadela says: "Why it's the one in the handcuffs that the police brought in over there!" *the crowd gasps in awe of Cadela's apparent wisdom* The assembled crowd replies: "But how do we know for sure they are guilty?!!" Cadela retorts: "Why, it's because they are the ones with the handcuffs on you dolt!"
Do I need go futher?
No see the problem is people like you, who for some reason thinks that 1. This is a democracy, and 2. Thinks he's important enough to he needs to be let in on every single judgement call that occurs.
I assure you buddy boy, that the second you stick your nose into the police's and court of law's business, you will get a bloody nose and told to shove off. It's not your job, business nor right to get proof for someone else's crimes before they can be declared guilty. Rules are rules, and if you want to make your own and mess around with your own data to absolve or condemn people, create your own MMO.
Your smartnose remarks won't provide any content or actual foundation for any of your claims, rather they make you look like an idiot. Provide just 1 example that'll prove me wrong..1 example where someone had their isk taken away, who was innocent, and who didn't get their isk back. Just 1..I dare you. |
Thorradin
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.11 01:42:00 -
[233]
Edited by: Thorradin on 11/04/2008 01:49:07
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Dahak2150
Chaos Monkeys
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Posted - 2008.04.11 02:00:00 -
[234]
Originally by: coolie oberon If I were still going to play this game I might be interested to know what alliances have funded their conquest of space with real world isk.
I sincerely doubt ccp will take assets from these alliances that were gained by this tactic. ccp seems comfortable chastizing individual players who may or may not know all the nuances of their approved method(s) of acquiring isk.
After over a year of being a good customer I am treated poorly. That is the bottom line. I dont care if I am 1 of 30,0000% of their income. I'll find something else to waste time and money on.
You were isk-buying scum anyway. Goodbye, we won't miss you. |
CoRrUpTiGe
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Posted - 2008.04.11 02:31:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Cadela Fria
No see the problem is people like you, who for some reason thinks that 1. This is a democracy,
Okay, well this is progress. At least you admit that "it" might be something else besides an equitable arrangement based on oh say, generally accepted principles of fairness.
Originally by: Cadela Fria
and 2. Thinks he's important enough to he needs to be let in on every single judgement call that occurs.
Ahem, the age old lament of the self appointed self absorbed "elite" in Eve. Not that you're really all that "elite" in any manner of speaking. But in this case you are at least being consistent: ie, I cannot possible know what's fair or right or proper or be disposed to make any determination like that because everyone should already know and accept as "cadela's truth" that the GUILTY in this case are whoever the cops have the handcuffs on, no questions asked. Trust ALL authority right?
Originally by: Cadela Fria
I assure you buddy boy, that the second you stick your nose into the police's and court of law's business, you will get a bloody nose and told to shove off.
Maybe in a police state or a tin horn dictatorship somewhere or with a business that gives not a single iota of a damn about their customers.
Hey, you know what, perhaps you should, with your views as stated above, suggest to CCP that they do away with this "eve election" for CSM reps or whatever they are calling it anyways. With you at the helm, they certainly have zero need for any feedback whatsoever...right?
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Sweet Laylah
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Posted - 2008.04.11 05:53:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Zanpt
Dear CCP fanboi:
It's about time that CCP and its GMs began to think about annoyed players. You know, the players who pay all their bills. Maybe if someone in your family loses $500 to a mysterious bank debit without explanation, you'll refrain from "annoying" the bank's customer disservice because "it isn't your case." What's bloody stupid is regarding CCP and GMs as if they were gods. They are human and have a lot they can improve on. I hope they do.
Get lost.
ROFL u are sooo tough. Wish I was like you, all threatening and full of hate ...
Hang on no I don't, then I'd look like sappy tard on forums.
Here have a tissue. |
Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.11 12:11:00 -
[237]
Originally by: CoRrUpTiGe
Okay, well this is progress. At least you admit that "it" might be something else besides an equitable arrangement based on oh say, generally accepted principles of fairness.
I have admitted no such thing, but the fact is, it's not your job, not my job, or any other player's job to make a judgement call on whos guilty and who isn't. You're just another hyped up whiner who sees conspiracy no matter where he goes. CCP are perfectly capable of knowing what fairness is..you think they somehow differ from you as human beings? If you do, please get a grip on reality.
Originally by: CoRrUpTiGe
Ahem, the age old lament of the self appointed self absorbed "elite" in Eve. Not that you're really all that "elite" in any manner of speaking. But in this case you are at least being consistent: ie, I cannot possible know what's fair or right or proper or be disposed to make any determination like that because everyone should already know and accept as "cadela's truth" that the GUILTY in this case are whoever the cops have the handcuffs on, no questions asked. Trust ALL authority right?
I have never claimed I was any sort of elite..I don't have the right, reason or anything of the sort to butt in on their judgement calls either..why? Becauses it's THEIR job, not mine.. Now unless you live in a completely messed up country, I'm betting you the police doesn't let you interfere with their work everytime they arrest someone. A carpenter doesn't constantly let you make uneducated revisions to his work either..a sculptur doesn't either...nor does a painter..or a musician..or construction worker. If it's not your job, stay out of it.
"Trust ALL authority" - Now you're just going into extreme..CCP is a gaming company, not a unit of authority. If you wan't to be that anal about it, then you're a waste of time.
Originally by: CoRrUpTiGe
Maybe in a police state or a tin horn dictatorship somewhere or with a business that gives not a single iota of a damn about their customers.
Hey, you know what, perhaps you should, with your views as stated above, suggest to CCP that they do away with this "eve election" for CSM reps or whatever they are calling it anyways. With you at the helm, they certainly have zero need for any feedback whatsoever...right?
You know I've been debating this very topic for over a year now, and frankly I do think the CSM is an utter waste of time..Just because a vocal minority keep crying and thinking they need proof for everything CCP does and that what CCP does is right in their opinion, which is plain stupid. How about you just let CCP do their job instead of butting in on it all the time..
I'm not saying transparency is a bad thing, but to go this far just to satisfy the crying idiots who have nothing better to do, then label CCP as an evil entity who does everything in it's own interest and never for the sake of fairness, and God forbid they do anything for good of the players, no way, they do it all to make your life miserable, earn more money, frustrate you, laugh at you, cheat you, lie to you, steal from you and backstab you - Because as you know, this is how the people of CCP are, evil and corrupt and without a soul.....This is how that vocal minority thinks and behaves towards CCP, just to get their marbles on..and you guessed it, that's people like you..you disgust me.
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Aclyn Seriy
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.11 12:24:00 -
[238]
Wow.......This thread has gone from plain old annoyed player to full scale forum fail war in only 8, long winded, self centred, egotistical pages. It's over, it's done with. The guy got his money back, the GM has aplogised.
If you people really need to carry on whining, how about you become pen-pals and do it that way instead of keeping dead threads alive with ego inflating and e-peen waving huh? Would a Moderator please lock this thread now? I dont think anything useful is going to come of it now..........
Originally by: Tobias Xiaosen Optimus Prime in a kayak
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Sirion Fujiwara
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Posted - 2008.04.11 12:36:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Save You I had the same thing happen to me today, last night I logged in for the first time after coming back from deployment, everything is good to go, my measly 110mil still safe and sound. I log in this morning and I'm at -1.8 billion. Now, I know I haven't bought any isk. Thats kind of hard when I haven't had an internet connection in months. I bought the character on the forums before I left, so maybe the previous guy did? This raises the question: "Can I be held accountable for the previous owners actions?" After I paid $20 to have the character sent to me? I was hoping to have this game still after my next deployment in about a month, but now I'm thinking my beta-till-now payments of 14.95 a month are going to end if they think telling me I'm lucky they don't investigate more is a reasonable answer.
Buying chatacters is bad, Mkay?
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Sirion Fujiwara
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Posted - 2008.04.11 13:08:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Franco Caruso
Originally by: coolie oberon If I were still going to play this game I might be interested to know what alliances have funded their conquest of space with real world isk.
I sincerely doubt ccp will take assets from these alliances that were gained by this tactic. ccp seems comfortable chastizing individual players who may or may not know all the nuances of their approved method(s) of acquiring isk.
After over a year of being a good customer I am treated poorly. That is the bottom line. I dont care if I am 1 of 30,0000% of their income. I'll find something else to waste time and money on.
Hey there.
You should, if you are 100% certain that the ISK deducted from your wallet where legit, escalate the problem to a senior GM. That is the only way to have it solved. Furthermore, if there was foulplay involved by a GM ( which I personall doubt ) it's the only way to have it found out and rectified.
Some alliances use RL funds to collect cash, then buy GTC and sell them for ISK. That is 100% legit. Those ISK can't be removed.
You weren't treated poorly, you are most likely at the end of a chain of events that started with CCP finding a rl ISK selling operation and reversing their transactions.
That it affects you, granted but it's not against you in person. That is proven by the fact that you still can post here. You have the chance of recovering ... banned you wouldn't have.
So, escalate it.
Erh - I hate to bring this up again, but has T20 been completely forgotten now? He's still there isn't he? That to my mind speaks volumes...
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Farkin Ugly
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Posted - 2008.04.11 13:43:00 -
[241]
Originally by: GM Tacgnol If we remove ISK from a character that you legally purchased (again, through the secure system), petition it immediately. It takes us maybe two minutes to verify your story, and the ISK will then be returned. I'm glad to hear that we could help you with this.[/quote
Its amazing how it takes you 2 minutes to confirm something after the fact. This doesnt say much for your investigation methods prior to removing ISK. I am pretty sure some one with access to the data base would have a check sheet that includes confirmation of "Legal" character transfers as one of the things to check for.
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2008.04.11 13:49:00 -
[242]
I hope the GM tools improvements in patch 1.2 include showing when a character changed owner because it was the issue in several cases exposed here.
People buy isk, buy a more expansive character with the isk from the RMT and then sell their character in the official forum, giving to someone else their isk buyer sticker in the character logs...
I hope GMs found the right guy to take 664M from! -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Assault Frigates MK II |
Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.11 13:49:00 -
[243]
Edited by: Cadela Fria on 11/04/2008 13:49:44
Originally by: Farkin Ugly
Originally by: GM Tacgnol
If we remove ISK from a character that you legally purchased (again, through the secure system), petition it immediately. It takes us maybe two minutes to verify your story, and the ISK will then be returned. I'm glad to hear that we could help you with this.
Its amazing how it takes you 2 minutes to confirm something after the fact. This doesnt say much for your investigation methods prior to removing ISK. I am pretty sure some one with access to the data base would have a check sheet that includes confirmation of "Legal" character transfers as one of the things to check for.
It's amazing how you make an assumption about how THEIR system works, without actually KNOWING it. For all you know, maybe 2 minutes is all it takes to verify your story..maybe 3 (oh dear 1 minute more! EGADS!)..maybe 4 (UNHEARD OF!)..I mean, whos counting.
"check sheet" ? What is this "cheek sheet" You speak of? Do you even know if this exists? I wish people would stop making blind assumptions about how CCP's systems work.
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Poreuomai
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2008.04.11 16:19:00 -
[244]
Edited by: Poreuomai on 11/04/2008 16:20:33
Originally by: Farkin Ugly
Originally by: GM Tacgnol
If we remove ISK from a character that you legally purchased (again, through the secure system), petition it immediately. It takes us maybe two minutes to verify your story, and the ISK will then be returned. I'm glad to hear that we could help you with this.
Its amazing how it takes you 2 minutes to confirm something after the fact. This doesnt say much for your investigation methods prior to removing ISK. I am pretty sure some one with access to the data base would have a check sheet that includes confirmation of "Legal" character transfers as one of the things to check for.
That's a fair observation.
Though I would hope that he simply meant: If someone did make a mistake, just tell us and we'll sort it out.
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sethfon
Caldari Apex Ultima
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Posted - 2008.04.11 16:36:00 -
[245]
The problem here there seem to be two ways of looking at things. 1 Cadela Fria = CCP is all knowing all seeing always right! I assure you buddy boy, that the second you stick your nose into the police's and court of law's business, you will get a bloody nose and told to shove off. It's not your job, business nor right to get proof for someone else's crimes before they can be declared guilty. Rules are rules, and if you want to make your own and mess around with your own data to absolve or condemn people, create your own MMO. Now this is pretty hard stuff. 2 CoRruptige =Maybe in a police state or a tin horn dictatorship somewhere or with a business that gives not a single iota of a damn about their customers. Might be case in point, that thing can happen that might need review by outside council. At one time the customer was always right! Of course we all know that is not true! But they still pay the bills. The game plays out like this.
Cadela Fria is hanging by rope gasping for last breath. CoRruptige says did someone check to see if Cadela Fria is guilty? CCP well let me check it only takes two min. Cadela Fria Taking last breath. Oh here it is in the last patch we seem to have omitted the file string that would have proved her not guilty! I guess we need to put new patch in for this problem! CoRruptige saying about time! CCP yes this only patch 1.23452356678544390ù67643388999090=====87654 It should solve this problem now! CCP yes too bad about old Cadela Fria maybe next time we will ask question first! Opps old Cadela Fria would not want that, she was a big supporter of or system we know all see all and mistakes can always be fixed later. CCP see we are great and everyone knows that if they have half a brain! CoRruptige I do not believe you, are you the ones that put the patch in to upgrade with an auto exe file that kill most computer? CCP But we fixed it within a few hours! Oh thatÆs right. Farmer looking on with great joy! They cannot touch me I will just throw away my char and get new one! Who cares we pay with GTC! CCP yes we will just go after all the isk buyers they will care! They pay us to play our game. So they will take hart and not buy isk any more! Farmer hello new customer how long you been playing, oh about a week hmm! Come with me little one I have a deal for you! Big ship shinnies and new! Nothing will happen we will protect you! HeHeHe! Ok Just fiction this is a game by the way. Flame suit on and ready for the wrath of Cadela Fria!
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CoRrUpTiGe
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Posted - 2008.04.11 16:51:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Aclyn Seriy Wow.......This thread has gone from plain old annoyed player to full scale forum fail war in only 8, long winded, self centred, egotistical pages. It's over, it's done with. The guy got his money back, the GM has aplogised.
If you people really need to carry on whining, how about you become pen-pals and do it that way instead of keeping dead threads alive with ego inflating and e-peen waving huh? Would a Moderator please lock this thread now? I dont think anything useful is going to come of it now..........
Here Cadela....here is your example of "GM's run amok"
Less time policing the ebay boogeyman and more time pulling their collective intellects together to solve horrible problems that exist with Eve game mechanics...oh you know, like those 7 to 9 titans headed to PB and towards your alliance Cadela. Yeah, that :) Have a wonderful weekend!
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.04.11 17:01:00 -
[247]
Originally by: CoRrUpTiGe Less time policing the ebay boogeyman and more time pulling their collective intellects together to solve horrible problems that exist with Eve game mechanics...oh you know, like those 7 to 9 titans headed to PB and towards your alliance Cadela. Yeah, that :) Have a wonderful weekend!
Since when do GMs work in the game development / system administration / programming areas?
Oh right they don't. Your point is based on idiocy. -------- Ideas for: Mining Clouds
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CoRrUpTiGe
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Posted - 2008.04.11 17:39:00 -
[248]
Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: CoRrUpTiGe Less time policing the ebay boogeyman and more time pulling their collective intellects together to solve horrible problems that exist with Eve game mechanics...oh you know, like those 7 to 9 titans headed to PB and towards your alliance Cadela. Yeah, that :) Have a wonderful weekend!
Since when do GMs work in the game development / system administration / programming areas?
Oh right they don't. Your point is based on idiocy.
Given the size of the problem with certain game mechanics in Eve I think anyone's efforts would be welcomed. From players, to actual devs, to GMs, to really anyone who wants to logon SISI and help. That's where THE focus should be, not some imaginery trumphed up crusade against the ebay boogeyman that is basically "shuck and jive" distraction intended to draw player and community attention away from what is really important to the community.
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Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.11 17:40:00 -
[249]
Originally by: sethfon Lots of stuff
I'm sorry, but I won't give you my wrath..Rather I find your post a refreshing relief of comedy Nothing what you said is based on what I said..you quoted me, and then extrapolated your own version of what was going on, which is far shot from reality. If, however, you percieve reality this way..by all means be my guest.
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Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2008.04.11 17:40:00 -
[250]
Originally by: CoRrUpTiGe
Originally by: Aclyn Seriy Wow.......This thread has gone from plain old annoyed player to full scale forum fail war in only 8, long winded, self centred, egotistical pages. It's over, it's done with. The guy got his money back, the GM has aplogised.
If you people really need to carry on whining, how about you become pen-pals and do it that way instead of keeping dead threads alive with ego inflating and e-peen waving huh? Would a Moderator please lock this thread now? I dont think anything useful is going to come of it now..........
Here Cadela....here is your example of "GM's run amok"
Less time policing the ebay boogeyman and more time pulling their collective intellects together to solve horrible problems that exist with Eve game mechanics...oh you know, like those 7 to 9 titans headed to PB and towards your alliance Cadela. Yeah, that :) Have a wonderful weekend!
Yeah your proposition is so genius, that i guess you should hang by the phone for the people of CCP to call you and offer you employment.
Only problem is that GM are not Bug hunters or Game Developers or Q&A. Thus they have nothing to do with the bugs of the game. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
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Cadela Fria
Amarr Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.04.11 17:43:00 -
[251]
Edited by: Cadela Fria on 11/04/2008 17:45:30
Originally by: CoRrUpTiGe
Originally by: Aclyn Seriy Wow.......This thread has gone from plain old annoyed player to full scale forum fail war in only 8, long winded, self centred, egotistical pages. It's over, it's done with. The guy got his money back, the GM has aplogised.
If you people really need to carry on whining, how about you become pen-pals and do it that way instead of keeping dead threads alive with ego inflating and e-peen waving huh? Would a Moderator please lock this thread now? I dont think anything useful is going to come of it now..........
Here Cadela....here is your example of "GM's run amok"
Less time policing the ebay boogeyman and more time pulling their collective intellects together to solve horrible problems that exist with Eve game mechanics...oh you know, like those 7 to 9 titans headed to PB and towards your alliance Cadela. Yeah, that :) Have a wonderful weekend!
Not sure what you're trying to say..Titans coming my way? Not that I've seen or heard, but if they are..whats the problem? "You don't think 9 titans is a problem?" Game mechanic way? Not really no..it's a big fleet to be sure, but beyond that, you're just trying to change focus from your original statement once it's been challenged.
If you think theres such a problem and you know better than who knows how many QA employees, then how come you haven't been employed yet? Again, no one has given me 1 solid example of where a GM has taken away money that wasn't illegitimate, and failed to return it. Provide me data for your concern and we'll talk..other then that, it's just hot air.
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Riho
Gallente Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.04.11 17:53:00 -
[252]
Originally by: CoRrUpTiGe
Originally by: Aclyn Seriy Wow.......This thread has gone from plain old annoyed player to full scale forum fail war in only 8, long winded, self centred, egotistical pages. It's over, it's done with. The guy got his money back, the GM has aplogised.
If you people really need to carry on whining, how about you become pen-pals and do it that way instead of keeping dead threads alive with ego inflating and e-peen waving huh? Would a Moderator please lock this thread now? I dont think anything useful is going to come of it now..........
Here Cadela....here is your example of "GM's run amok"
Less time policing the ebay boogeyman and more time pulling their collective intellects together to solve horrible problems that exist with Eve game mechanics...oh you know, like those 7 to 9 titans headed to PB and towards your alliance Cadela. Yeah, that :) Have a wonderful weekend!
you have very little clue how IT companies work i guess :P
i work in IT... in developement and sometimes in administration of some projects.
so now by your logic, all the guys who work sales departmnet should all come down and "help" me whit developing or administrating systems... when they have no prior experiance and education to work in the field. id probably tell them to feck off :P
same thing goes on in CCP.. GMs dont code, admin, develope new ideas or whatever on eve. they are GMs who deal whit player base. solve problems (or cause them sometimes :P j/k), assist, reimpurse or decline it... thats their job.
saying that they should go and fix bug makes you a rather clueless guy ---------------------------------- Yes... this is my main. Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Farkin Ugly
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Posted - 2008.04.11 18:28:00 -
[253]
Originally by: Cadela Fria It's amazing how you make an assumption about how THEIR system works, without actually KNOWING it. For all you know, maybe 2 minutes is all it takes to verify your story..maybe 3 (oh dear 1 minute more! EGADS!)..maybe 4 (UNHEARD OF!)..I mean, whos counting.
"check sheet" ? What is this "cheek sheet" You speak of? Do you even know if this exists? I wish people would stop making blind assumptions about how CCP's systems work.[/quote
Your comprehension of the English language leaves a lot to be desired. Did you actualy read what I wrote or just jump right in with the post you made. Let me try again and I will type SLOWLY this time so you understand!!!!!!
They were able to verify in about 2 minutes that in fact the account had been purchased after the ISK buying event took place. Being that it took very little time to verify this wouldnt one think in a case as serious as removing in-game currency from some ones account that they would make every effort to ensure the right person was punished.
I would also hope that there was a laid down procedure that involved some kind of checks need prior to some one having in-game currency removed. To think that this is done with out such checks and balances is assine and to be honest completely laughable.
I am going to chaulk up your responce to nothing more than an attempt at trolling, one that failed by the way.
crawl....>rock
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Zaerlorth Maelkor
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Posted - 2008.04.11 18:33:00 -
[254]
Originally by: sethfon The problem here there seem to be two ways of looking at things. 1 Cadela Fria = CCP is all knowing all seeing always right! I assure you buddy boy, that the second you stick your nose into the police's and court of law's business, you will get a bloody nose and told to shove off. It's not your job, business nor right to get proof for someone else's crimes before they can be declared guilty. Rules are rules, and if you want to make your own and mess around with your own data to absolve or condemn people, create your own MMO. Now this is pretty hard stuff. 2 CoRruptige =Maybe in a police state or a tin horn dictatorship somewhere or with a business that gives not a single iota of a damn about their customers. Might be case in point, that thing can happen that might need review by outside council. At one time the customer was always right! Of course we all know that is not true! But they still pay the bills. The game plays out like this.
Cadela Fria is hanging by rope gasping for last breath. CoRruptige says did someone check to see if Cadela Fria is guilty? CCP well let me check it only takes two min. Cadela Fria Taking last breath. Oh here it is in the last patch we seem to have omitted the file string that would have proved her not guilty! I guess we need to put new patch in for this problem! CoRruptige saying about time! CCP yes this only patch 1.23452356678544390ù67643388999090=====87654 It should solve this problem now! CCP yes too bad about old Cadela Fria maybe next time we will ask question first! Opps old Cadela Fria would not want that, she was a big supporter of or system we know all see all and mistakes can always be fixed later. CCP see we are great and everyone knows that if they have half a brain! CoRruptige I do not believe you, are you the ones that put the patch in to upgrade with an auto exe file that kill most computer? CCP But we fixed it within a few hours! Oh thatÆs right. Farmer looking on with great joy! They cannot touch me I will just throw away my char and get new one! Who cares we pay with GTC! CCP yes we will just go after all the isk buyers they will care! They pay us to play our game. So they will take hart and not buy isk any more! Farmer hello new customer how long you been playing, oh about a week hmm! Come with me little one I have a deal for you! Big ship shinnies and new! Nothing will happen we will protect you! HeHeHe! Ok Just fiction this is a game by the way. Flame suit on and ready for the wrath of Cadela Fria!
Holy unreadability!!
==================================================
I should really get a sig. |
CoRrUpTiGe
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Posted - 2008.04.11 18:43:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Cadela Fria Edited by: Cadela Fria on 11/04/2008 17:49:31
Originally by: CoRrUpTiGe
Originally by: Aclyn Seriy Wow.......This thread has gone from plain old annoyed player to full scale forum fail war in only 8, long winded, self centred, egotistical pages. It's over, it's done with. The guy got his money back, the GM has aplogised.
If you people really need to carry on whining, how about you become pen-pals and do it that way instead of keeping dead threads alive with ego inflating and e-peen waving huh? Would a Moderator please lock this thread now? I dont think anything useful is going to come of it now..........
Here Cadela....here is your example of "GM's run amok"
Less time policing the ebay boogeyman and more time pulling their collective intellects together to solve horrible problems that exist with Eve game mechanics...oh you know, like those 7 to 9 titans headed to PB and towards your alliance Cadela. Yeah, that :) Have a wonderful weekend!
Not sure what you're trying to say..Titans coming my way? Not that I've seen or heard, but if they are..whats the problem? "You don't think 9 titans is a problem?" Game mechanic wise? Not really no..it's a big fleet to be sure, but beyond that, you're just trying to change focus from your original statement once it's been challenged.
If you think theres such a problem and you know better than who knows how many QA employees, then how come you haven't been employed yet? Again, no one has given me 1 solid example of where a GM has taken away money that wasn't illegitimate, and failed to return it. Provide me data for your concern and we'll talk..other then that, it's just hot air.
No sweetie, it's just that those titans together in one system will make MC a sad panda and the stackability of titans in Eve is a serious issue that requires a large amount of attention. Everyone, on all sides, knows this is true.
But instead of taking my figurative statement pointing out the need for CCP, in general, to focus on what's really important, like game dev issues like that, you still continue your protestations regarding the apparent importance you continue to place on CCP moving forward with the "ebay crusade" to root out the ebil ebay boogeyman wherever he lies in Eve.
That is clearly and as concisely as I can state it :)
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Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:10:00 -
[256]
Originally by: CoRrUpTiGe
Originally by: Cadela Fria Edited by: Cadela Fria on 11/04/2008 17:49:31
Not sure what you're trying to say..Titans coming my way? Not that I've seen or heard, but if they are..whats the problem? "You don't think 9 titans is a problem?" Game mechanic wise? Not really no..it's a big fleet to be sure, but beyond that, you're just trying to change focus from your original statement once it's been challenged.
If you think theres such a problem and you know better than who knows how many QA employees, then how come you haven't been employed yet? Again, no one has given me 1 solid example of where a GM has taken away money that wasn't illegitimate, and failed to return it. Provide me data for your concern and we'll talk..other then that, it's just hot air.
No sweetie, it's just that those titans together in one system will make MC a sad panda and the stackability of titans in Eve is a serious issue that requires a large amount of attention. Everyone, on all sides, knows this is true.
But instead of taking my figurative statement pointing out the need for CCP, in general, to focus on what's really important, like game dev issues like that, you still continue your protestations regarding the apparent importance you continue to place on CCP moving forward with the "ebay crusade" to root out the ebil ebay boogeyman wherever he lies in Eve.
That is clearly and as concisely as I can state it :)
You are under the impression that GM deal with the game planning and implementation?
I guess you still are.
In my country there is a saying. People that have fragmented knowledge of an issue, are worse than people that know nothing about the issue.
I guess you are an example to that. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
CoRrUpTiGe
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Posted - 2008.04.11 19:55:00 -
[257]
Edited by: CoRrUpTiGe on 11/04/2008 19:55:27
Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Originally by: CoRrUpTiGe
Originally by: Cadela Fria Edited by: Cadela Fria on 11/04/2008 17:49:31
Not sure what you're trying to say..Titans coming my way? Not that I've seen or heard, but if they are..whats the problem? "You don't think 9 titans is a problem?" Game mechanic wise? Not really no..it's a big fleet to be sure, but beyond that, you're just trying to change focus from your original statement once it's been challenged.
If you think theres such a problem and you know better than who knows how many QA employees, then how come you haven't been employed yet? Again, no one has given me 1 solid example of where a GM has taken away money that wasn't illegitimate, and failed to return it. Provide me data for your concern and we'll talk..other then that, it's just hot air.
No sweetie, it's just that those titans together in one system will make MC a sad panda and the stackability of titans in Eve is a serious issue that requires a large amount of attention. Everyone, on all sides, knows this is true.
But instead of taking my figurative statement pointing out the need for CCP, in general, to focus on what's really important, like game dev issues like that, you still continue your protestations regarding the apparent importance you continue to place on CCP moving forward with the "ebay crusade" to root out the ebil ebay boogeyman wherever he lies in Eve.
That is clearly and as concisely as I can state it :)
You are under the impression that GM deal with the game planning and implementation?
I guess you still are.
In my country there is a saying. People that have fragmented knowledge of an issue, are worse than people that know nothing about the issue.
I guess you are an example to that.
Uh no. Not specifically stating that GM's address or could address those really important "Dev issues" issues but really dealing with petitions that stem from bugs and server malfunctions would be enough imo to keep them busy regardless. Indeed, if the ebay boogeyman was just left alone there would be "more gm time" for that really important Customer service stuff. The entire line of reasoning was in regard to GENERAL PRIORITIES at CCP, not specific who does what in the division of labor at CCP. Comprendo? |
Gangus
Minmatar Matari BackBone
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Posted - 2008.04.12 12:56:00 -
[258]
I'm really freakin' stoned right now, and this channel just made my night. These threads never get old, they just keep getting better and better!
Never mess with a guy in an ugly ship. He's bitter and has nothing to lose. |
northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services
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Posted - 2008.04.12 13:13:00 -
[259]
dear god! still going on?
Trinity Corporate Services
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Scavok
UA Industry Red Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.12 16:43:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Poreuomai Edited by: Poreuomai on 10/04/2008 11:16:52
Originally by: Scavok ... For goonswarm it's historically been most common for people to legitimately purchase a timecard and then unknowingly sell it to someone who purchased isk. The purchaser gets banned and the GTC seller gets the isk reversed, meaning he lost however much real life money he spent on the GTC. ...
Well that would completely contradict the assurance given by GM Krymus: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=744301&page=4#92
Yes it does, but I'll add that if all they did was remove isk from the initial account it was purchased on, then illegitimate isk would never be removed. It's a pretty safe assumption that anyone who's buying isk from ebay or whatever takes the game pretty seriously and would do his best to launder the isk. CCP has to follow the isk or they're completely ineffective, but it's obviously not an exact science, and that's why people who aren't involved at all often get screwed into petition hell or commonly just quit.
Originally by: GM Tacgnol
I'd just like to chime in on this point - We do not, nor will we ever, remove ISK received for selling timecards, IF the seller uses the secure method to do so. If a player sells timecards outside of the secure method, then you are at risk of having your ISK removed if the seller turns out to be a ISK seller.
If you sell GTCs, please do so through the secure method, and your sale will be 100% safe and secure. Doing so in any other way puts you at risk.
I'll freely add that the number of people getting stuck with a negative wallet is much less common since the secure GTC was added, and I've never heard of anyone having their isk removed through using it. The policies on isk removal have obviously not changed though, and quite simply they're terrible.
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Aclyn Seriy
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.15 09:52:00 -
[261]
Edited by: Aclyn Seriy on 15/04/2008 09:52:58
Originally by: CoRrUpTiGe
Originally by: Aclyn Seriy Wow.......This thread has gone from plain old annoyed player to full scale forum fail war in only 8, long winded, self centred, egotistical pages. It's over, it's done with. The guy got his money back, the GM has aplogised.
If you people really need to carry on whining, how about you become pen-pals and do it that way instead of keeping dead threads alive with ego inflating and e-peen waving huh? Would a Moderator please lock this thread now? I dont think anything useful is going to come of it now..........
Here Cadela....here is your example of "GM's run amok"
Less time policing the ebay boogeyman and more time pulling their collective intellects together to solve horrible problems that exist with Eve game mechanics...oh you know, like those 7 to 9 titans headed to PB and towards your alliance Cadela. Yeah, that :) Have a wonderful weekend!
Excuse me, but why are you quoting me? I've read your posts and can't understand the need for it.
Originally by: Tobias Xiaosen Optimus Prime in a kayak
Thank Veld for Chribba
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Alski
Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.15 10:03:00 -
[262]
Edited by: Alski on 15/04/2008 10:03:22
Originally by: sethfon The problem here there seem to be two ways of looking at things. 1 Cadela Fria = CCP is all knowing all seeing always right! I assure you buddy boy, that the second you stick your nose into the police's and court of law's business, you will get a bloody nose and told to shove off. It's not your job, business nor right to get proof for someone else's crimes before they can be declared guilty. Rules are rules, and if you want to make your own and mess around with your own data to absolve or condemn people, create your own MMO. Now this is pretty hard stuff. 2 CoRruptige =Maybe in a police state or a tin horn dictatorship somewhere or with a business that gives not a single iota of a damn about their customers. Might be case in point, that thing can happen that might need review by outside council. At one time the customer was always right! Of course we all know that is not true! But they still pay the bills. The game plays out like this.
Cadela Fria is hanging by rope gasping for last breath. CoRruptige says did someone check to see if Cadela Fria is guilty? CCP well let me check it only takes two min. Cadela Fria Taking last breath. Oh here it is in the last patch we seem to have omitted the file string that would have proved her not guilty! I guess we need to put new patch in for this problem! CoRruptige saying about time! CCP yes this only patch 1.23452356678544390—67643388999090=====87654 It should solve this problem now! CCP yes too bad about old Cadela Fria maybe next time we will ask question first! Opps old Cadela Fria would not want that, she was a big supporter of or system we know all see all and mistakes can always be fixed later. CCP see we are great and everyone knows that if they have half a brain! CoRruptige I do not believe you, are you the ones that put the patch in to upgrade with an auto exe file that kill most computer? CCP But we fixed it within a few hours! Oh that’s right. Farmer looking on with great joy! They cannot touch me I will just throw away my char and get new one! Who cares we pay with GTC! CCP yes we will just go after all the isk buyers they will care! They pay us to play our game. So they will take hart and not buy isk any more! Farmer hello new customer how long you been playing, oh about a week hmm! Come with me little one I have a deal for you! Big ship shinnies and new! Nothing will happen we will protect you! HeHeHe! Ok Just fiction this is a game by the way. Flame suit on and ready for the wrath of Cadela Fria!
I just printscreened your post in my browser and pasted it into mspaint so i could play join the dots...
I tryed to make it look like a dog but i think it actuley looks more like a bastard stepchild of an unholy pairing between an omen and a vagabond.
-
(combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom.
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Fifth Horseman
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Posted - 2008.04.15 10:03:00 -
[263]
Originally by: GM Tacgnol If we remove ISK from a character that you legally purchased (again, through the secure system), petition it immediately. It takes us maybe two minutes to verify your story, and the ISK will then be returned. I'm glad to hear that we could help you with this.
Any chance you could spend those 2 minutes before you steal from people? Instead of escalating to a Senior GM, what if we just telephone the police?
--- Boring & Banal. Just how CCP like it. |
Thargat
Caldari North Star Networks Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.15 10:04:00 -
[264]
reality check please!!! If it's not baby jeebus and the end of the world, then it's global warming and the end of the world, or cheating GMs (that somehow are DEVs and twisting your mind) AND THE END OF THE WORLD!!
Useless trolls.... stop being e-turds (some of these people don't understand that you'r trolling, wich makes it no fun anyhow). Go crawl back into a hole somewhere and let this stupid trollthread go away and die already. If you don't like the game (or trust the guys who made it in the first place) then go somewhere else and play a better game. Stop pestering the forums with CRAP.
There are forums that have WAY better quality if trolling and arguing is the goal (in contrast to actually adding something to the thread, I'm not I know). Forums like SA or mmorpg.com.
bleh..
There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius. |
Fifth Horseman
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Posted - 2008.04.15 10:09:00 -
[265]
That's a reality check? just wow... |
The macdaddy
Amarr Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.04.15 10:25:00 -
[266]
Edited by: The macdaddy on 15/04/2008 10:25:35
Originally by: Fifth Horseman
Any chance you could spend those 2 minutes before you steal from people? Instead of escalating to a Senior GM, what if we just telephone the police?
Yes. call the police and tell them all about the nasty GM's taking your imaginary internet space game money........... later after your beating for wasting their time you can read the eula, it ALL belongs to ccp. all your precious pixels
*Edit : why havent you quit yet? |
Fifth Horseman
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Posted - 2008.04.15 10:31:00 -
[267]
Edited by: Fifth Horseman on 15/04/2008 10:32:03
Originally by: The macdaddy Yes. call the police and tell them all about the nasty GM's taking your imaginary internet space game money........... later after your beating for wasting their time you can read the eula, it ALL belongs to ccp. all your precious pixels
*Edit : why havent you quit yet?
I'd call the police and tell them a company sold me something for real money, and then took it off me without my permission. That is theft in any police force's book. I would also do a chargeback on the credit card transaction. Once Paypal, and resellers start getting money snatched straight back off them for CCPs actions, and the police want to know why people keep reporting this, CCP might do something.
*Edit: Because it exists only in Tarminics imagination, which probably makes it Gospel to the greater majority of forum fanboiz. You might want to do some homework before you pick a hero. |
The macdaddy
Amarr Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.04.15 10:40:00 -
[268]
Originally by: Fifth Horseman Edited by: Fifth Horseman on 15/04/2008 10:32:03
I'd call the police and tell them a company sold me something for real money, and then took it off me without my permission. That is theft in any police force's book. I would also do a chargeback on the credit card transaction. Once Paypal, and resellers start getting money snatched straight back off them for CCPs actions, and the police want to know why people keep reporting this, CCP might do something.
Trust me the police will laugh at you At most this is a completely civil matter, which you would lose as the eula covers CCP. Im not sure on where you would stand with the cahrge back though, I think CCP would argue that all you are paying for is the use of the server and that they have provided that, but who knows you may have a point.
Originally by: Fifth Horseman *Edit: Because it exists only in Tarminics imagination, which probably makes it Gospel to the greater majority of forum fanboiz. You might want to do some homework before you pick a hero.
That hurts. Tarmininc is no hero to me |
LordAdmiralAsriel
Amarr Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.04.15 10:50:00 -
[269]
Can we please one and for all close this matter.
It is obvious beyond any shadow of a doubt that CCP is coming down on the ISK buyers/sellers for one reason and one reason only:
Money. Period.
And they are right in this, it is their product, so they set the rules. Anyone who does not like them, leave.
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Fifth Horseman
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Posted - 2008.04.15 10:51:00 -
[270]
Originally by: The macdaddy stuff
Ordinarily, yes, all we pay for is to access the server, but ETC is slightly different, you buy a code, and you are encouraged by CCP to trade it for ISK, which exists on a server you can pay for access to.
I'm sure there are plenty of legal begals making a fortune sorting out all the legal ramifications, but in the mean time, every person living in a lawful society has the right to report any matter to the police where they feel a law has been broken, even if it turns out it has not.
The chargeback would relate to the ETC purchased, revoking TQ access would inevitably follow if only for reprisal purposes, however. They know we can't do much about it except take back as much as possible and never return.
All companies rely on the powerlessness of people. We simply have too much to lose. It's not so much about right and wrong. If CCP fail twice on the trot, once to steal the isk (money), and secondly fail to recognise it on petition, it's about your self respect and either allowing them to do it unchallenged, or doing something about it. |
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MilowFV
Echo Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.15 11:20:00 -
[271]
Well this is a funny thread. Let us know what the police say when you call them and report it, should be good for a laugh.
I think CCP should keep right on taking ISK from folks that buy from 3rd party sellers of ISk. The fact that they (CCP) sell game time cards to player and allow them to trade them for ISK is just a way for CCP to make money and try to cut down on 3rd party sellers of ISk by giving player an alternative.
I really do want to hear how the call to the police went also, so please post that.
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Fifth Horseman
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Posted - 2008.04.15 11:25:00 -
[272]
Originally by: MilowFV Well this is a funny thread. Let us know what the police say when you call them and report it, should be good for a laugh.
I think CCP should keep right on taking ISK from folks that buy from 3rd party sellers of ISk. The fact that they (CCP) sell game time cards to player and allow them to trade them for ISK is just a way for CCP to make money and try to cut down on 3rd party sellers of ISk by giving player an alternative.
I really do want to hear how the call to the police went also, so please post that.
"tsssssssst."
"What's that?"
"Fifteen Year Old repellant. New and improved from Monsanto, it works on physical age, mental age, and now reading age."
--- Boring & Banal. Just how CCP like it. |
Kairusen Laidan
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.04.15 11:38:00 -
[273]
Edited by: Kairusen Laidan on 15/04/2008 11:41:10
Originally by: Fifth Horseman Edited by: Fifth Horseman on 15/04/2008 10:32:03
Originally by: The macdaddy Yes. call the police and tell them all about the nasty GM's taking your imaginary internet space game money........... later after your beating for wasting their time you can read the eula, it ALL belongs to ccp. all your precious pixels
*Edit : why havent you quit yet?
I'd call the police and tell them a company sold me something for real money, and then took it off me without my permission. That is theft in any police force's book. I would also do a chargeback on the credit card transaction. Once Paypal, and resellers start getting money snatched straight back off them for CCPs actions, and the police want to know why people keep reporting this, CCP might do something.
*Edit: Because it exists only in Tarminics imagination, which probably makes it Gospel to the greater majority of forum fanboiz. You might want to do some homework before you pick a hero.
OK - let's get this straight. CCP owns the intellectual property to everything in EVE, including your character, all your assets, your ships and all corps and alliances. It is all owned by CCP. You have absolutely no legal grounding to go sue CCP based on that fact. They can't steal something which they already own, like all the ISK ever generated.
You are paying to access the EVE server and use the tools they have given you to create your character, career, ships, etc. You are not paying to keep ownership of those items, which you never owned in the first place.
So go and ring the police, I have a funny feeling that CCP, as a registered company, will have been sure to cover their backs in the EULA on this front. |
Riho
Gallente Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.04.15 11:42:00 -
[274]
Edited by: Riho on 15/04/2008 11:47:53
Originally by: Fifth Horseman
Originally by: MilowFV Well this is a funny thread. Let us know what the police say when you call them and report it, should be good for a laugh.
I think CCP should keep right on taking ISK from folks that buy from 3rd party sellers of ISk. The fact that they (CCP) sell game time cards to player and allow them to trade them for ISK is just a way for CCP to make money and try to cut down on 3rd party sellers of ISk by giving player an alternative.
I really do want to hear how the call to the police went also, so please post that.
"tsssssssst."
"What's that?"
"Fifteen Year Old repellant. New and improved from Monsanto, it works on physical age, mental age, and now reading age."
you are an ass... why do you inuslt ppl because they disagree whit you ??
maybe its time you get out of your mommys basement ??? hows that for an insult ?
Police would laugh their ass off if you reported this... maybe even make you pay money for wasting their time :P
edit: btw.. CCP didnt SELL you anything... so you can't say they STOLE something from you :P
everything is OWNED by CCP anyways... you just buy the right to use it. and thats that. how can CCP STEAL something that they OWN allready :P |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2008.04.15 11:49:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Fifth Horseman
Originally by: MilowFV Well this is a funny thread. Let us know what the police say when you call them and report it, should be good for a laugh.
I think CCP should keep right on taking ISK from folks that buy from 3rd party sellers of ISk. The fact that they (CCP) sell game time cards to player and allow them to trade them for ISK is just a way for CCP to make money and try to cut down on 3rd party sellers of ISk by giving player an alternative.
I really do want to hear how the call to the police went also, so please post that.
"tsssssssst."
"What's that?"
"Fifteen Year Old repellant. New and improved from Monsanto, it works on physical age, mental age, and now reading age."
Well accusing anyone who disagrees with you or points out flaws in your reasoning of "being a fifteen year old" is a credible and effective argument, but please do keep us updated on the police response to your report of this crime as well. It could well have serious implications for my ongoing lawsuit against the kid who once stole my lunch money, and also the case I'm now bringing against the grumpy old guy next door who wouldn't give me my football back after it went over the garden fence. |
Fifth Horseman
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Posted - 2008.04.15 11:57:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Kairusen Laidan OK - let's get this straight. CCP owns the intellectual property to everything in EVE, including your character, all your assets, your ships and all corps and alliances. It is all owned by CCP. You have absolutely no legal grounding to go sue CCP based on that fact. They can't steal something which they already own, like all the ISK ever generated.
You are paying to access the EVE server and use the tools they have given you to create your character, career, ships, etc. You are not paying to keep ownership of those items, which you never owned in the first place.
So go and ring the police, I have a funny feeling the CCP, as a registered company, will have been sure to cover their backs in the EULA on this front.
They own everything but my money. If they promise me one thing, take my money, then take back that which they promised, it is theft or fraud. It doesn't matter whether they take back ISK, cookies, sausage patties, fancy cars, prime rib, sand, trees, ivory or even baking soda.
CCP tell me, encourage me, and all but force me, to buy GTCs and sell them for ISK, not game time, not server access, just ISK. This they insist is the one and only true way to purchase ISK, now, if they tell me to do something which involves me handing over money and they fail to give me what was promised, or they take back what was promised without a damm good reason, and without due diligence, that's theft, it's illegal.
For fraud it would have to be a premeditated plan to do so, which is far less likely.
It is however quite likely that they have hired the very best legal begals to arrive at this unfortunate system. Money->Code->Isk, rather than Money->Isk. You can see why this system is very appealing to them, and I'm not interested specifically in the rights and wrongs of buying your way to success, I'm specifically interested in being invited to do it, then being treated like a criminal through no action of my own. Also that section in the middle "Code" separates Me & CCP. They may be entitled legally to claim they have no reason to honour the ISK I received, because it was not granted by CCP directly. My Money, The Code and The Isk getting separated like that is handy to allow non-cash GTC acquisition, I think it's merely coincidental and happily so, that it possibly protects CCP from such charges of theft.
I guess it just depends on the kind of person you are. If you are happy to get short changed, ripped off, treated like a criminal, lied to, stolen from, cheated on, falsely accused or do jail time for other people, fine sure, CCP jacking you won't count for much. But I'm not really into allowing people to treat me in that manner, and I do not understand the people that are.
Regarding the EULA, the first time an EULA protects somebody who breaks the law, you can expect every single person on the planet to write their own EULA that specifically allows them to break the law. |
LordAdmiralAsriel
Amarr Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.04.15 12:03:00 -
[277]
A little terminology:
illegal = against the law EULA = End User License "Agreement"
these two dont mix, the EULA is (if it is anything, and I very much doubt this) part of the contract between each player and CCP.
And please do not go into the legal mumbojumbo, nothing good will come from it.
However I predict that at one point in time someone will lose so much ISK or whatever, that a law suit will happen. |
MilowFV
Echo Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.04.15 12:09:00 -
[278]
Quote: I guess it just depends on the kind of person you are. If you are happy to get short changed, ripped off, treated like a criminal, lied to, stolen from, cheated on, falsely accused or do jail time for other people, fine sure, CCP jacking you won't count for much. But I'm not really into allowing people to treat me in that manner, and I do not understand the people that are.
I can only guess your still posting while you wait for you subscription to run out sense you dont like the way CCP is treating you. |
Riho
Gallente Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.04.15 12:14:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Fifth Horseman alot of bla bla bla bla bla and more bla bla
ok.. why do you play this game again ?
if you feel that CCP is not just whit you.. then you have 2 options.
1. Quit. why should you pay money for a service you feel you are getting ripped off from.
2. be more stupid and sue them... then get burnt :P
and btw... CCP is NOT selling isk :)
player buy the GTC for real money, then they sell it to a player for ISK.
CCP does not inject more ISK into the game. the players who buy GTC for isk just give their isk to the sellers and get to play the game more. |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2008.04.15 13:01:00 -
[280]
"CCP tell me, encourage me, and all but force me, to buy GTCs and sell them for ISK, not game time, not server access, just ISK."
LOL! "Force" is not a synonym for "permit".
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
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William Alex
Viscosity
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Posted - 2008.04.15 14:00:00 -
[281]
They force me to mine veldspar!
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