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Endeavour Starfleet
813
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Posted - 2012.04.26 22:58:00 -
[91] - Quote
Styth spiting wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:corestwo wrote:AFK cloaking has less than nothing to do with why whatever no-name alliance you're in right now can't hold tech. Your no-name alliance can't hold tech because it doesn't have the raw numbers at the subcap, cap, and supercap levels to be able to even pretend to be able to make the attempt. How AFK cloaking enters into the equation at all, I have no idea.
And they're never going to make moon goo drop from rats, sorry. Ring mining is their solution to making it more of an individual, rather than alliance, income. I agree that ring mining is the BEST solution. However, with DUST-EVE connection about to take a ton of dev time to finish up after Inferno I HIGHLY doubt it will happen this year. The fanfest bit was a bit of CGI that is about as developed as their modified screenshots of visual damage. We need to face facts. It most likely WONT happen this year. If I even remotely believed it would I would not bother suggesting it move to loot tables. The reason I am suggesting it openly as a band aid is because it is. It is a temporary solution until they can find the time to implement the trawlers. That's not really how development works. CCP has hired on whole new teams for Dust development, while existing CCP Eve devs continue to work on Eve related development. sure once they start doing more integration (stuff in dust affecting Eve, like sovereignty) some Eve development hours will be lost, but chances are they will hire on a new team for that. Over the next 6 - 12 months it is far more likely that MORE development time will be spent on the Eve side of things than less.
Yes MORE time on things that are related to dust. UI stuff, Bombardment stuff, backend stuff. Development won't stop but there is virtually no chance of any major fixes like ring mining when Dust launch is hovering over everything. |
Callduron
131
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Posted - 2012.04.26 23:17:00 -
[92] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote: Yes MORE time on things that are related to dust. UI stuff, Bombardment stuff, backend stuff. Development won't stop but there is virtually no chance of any major fixes like ring mining when Dust launch is hovering over everything.
Ring mining isn't a major project. I imagine that currently each asteroid has a drop table even though it's only from one thing. (Maybe it's programmed some other way, doesn't really matter).
So if current Arkonor asteroid drop table is this:
100% arknonor.
They could change it to this:
99.9% arkonor 0.1% use moon minerals table instead.
Moon minerals table 0.5% dyspor 0.5% prom 10% hafnium etc
They have metrics for how many cubic meters of ore get mined in nullsec so it's just a matter of deciding how many cubic meters of moon minerals they'd like instead.
Possibly they may wish to add a location qualifier so nullsec would have to =true for a rock to drop moon minerals. Alternatively they may wish to preserve regionality so tech only appears in the north west etc. So the function would have to check the region the miner was in.
Not utterly simply but compared to wormholes or incursions it's pretty light. |
Hexxx
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
30
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Posted - 2012.04.27 13:04:00 -
[93] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Hexxx wrote:It's price manipulation, not inflation. Credibility begins and ends with your own personal ability to understand the meaning of the words you use. Well I guess we could argue a list few RL causes of Inflation to see i they pertain to the game of Eve... say The one I think is pertenant with OTEC I've stolen a few lines from what an economist in Forbes wrote so here: -Cause of Inflation: Market Power First, the economic agent could have market power. This means they have the ability to avoid (at least to some extent) competitive pressures. It is the latter that forces firms to please consumers. Adam Smith wrote in 1776 that we cannot trust the undertakers of business to look out for anyone but themselves, and so we must handcuff them. But not with markets, per se, with competition, and the two do not always go hand in hand. The OPEC oil cartel in the 1970s and 1980s is a classic example of marker power. Had there been other viable sources of what they sold, they could not have restricted supply and driven up prices as they did because the competition would not have allowed them to do so. We would have just bought oil (or a close substitute) from someone else. Up to late 1973, they lacked the political will to set strict quotas among the various exporters. But, once the motivation was provided by US involvement in the Yom Kippur War, they made a conscious decision to raise prices by cutting supply. And because they were able to avoid competition, it worked! Even though households do not buy barrels of oil, it caused terrible inflation. It drove up the prices of anything that used petroleum or petroleum-based products, it raised the price of gas and, therefore, anything that needed to be transported, and it caused inflation in other energy sources as users shifted to those products. Market powerGÇônot money growthGÇôcaused this inflation. The money supply only rose as a result of the fact that firms and consumers took out larger loans and sold assets for cash. The Federal Reserve acted as it should have done in these circumstances, accommodating this increased demand. (Of course having market power does not give carte blanche to raising prices. Even monopolists can only charge so much before consumers stop buying their products. -Another Cause of Inflation: Demand Pull ( I guess a big war like Jita burns or Hulkageddon many be at work here soon? ) -Another Cause of Inflation: Asset Market Boom ( dunno if this is occuring in Eve ?) and finally what we're seeing with the Drone Nerf: Cause of Inflation: Supply Shock (DN: please add other inflations causes I admit t not being an economist & would like to see them )
On a side note Dunno i we'll truely get anywhere close to Hyperinflation but here's a a definition I found today: The International Accounting Standards Board ('IASB') describes hyperinflation as inflation that results in "a cumulative inflation rate over three years approaching 100%, being a compound inflation rate of 26% over a consecutive three year period - and hence any inflation rate that exceeds 26% compounded over a three year period.
Inflation is a function of the active money supply (non-banned accounts) and money velocity. Also, inflation is measured across all items not just a certain sub-class of items. Short term trends are inflationary but the long term trend is deflationary. Anyone who thinks they can affect the long term inflationary trading by targeting a single material or a single system is daft. Even short term trends will be muted - the market is just too big.
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Wingnuut
Two Brothers Mining Corp. GIANTSBANE.
0
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Posted - 2012.04.28 17:54:00 -
[94] - Quote
Hexxx wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Hexxx wrote:It's price manipulation, not inflation. Credibility begins and ends with your own personal ability to understand the meaning of the words you use. Well I guess we could argue a list few RL causes of Inflation to see i they pertain to the game of Eve... say The one I think is pertenant with OTEC I've stolen a few lines from what an economist in Forbes wrote so here: -Cause of Inflation: Market Power First, the economic agent could have market power. This means they have the ability to avoid (at least to some extent) competitive pressures. It is the latter that forces firms to please consumers. Adam Smith wrote in 1776 that we cannot trust the undertakers of business to look out for anyone but themselves, and so we must handcuff them. But not with markets, per se, with competition, and the two do not always go hand in hand. The OPEC oil cartel in the 1970s and 1980s is a classic example of marker power. Had there been other viable sources of what they sold, they could not have restricted supply and driven up prices as they did because the competition would not have allowed them to do so. We would have just bought oil (or a close substitute) from someone else. Up to late 1973, they lacked the political will to set strict quotas among the various exporters. But, once the motivation was provided by US involvement in the Yom Kippur War, they made a conscious decision to raise prices by cutting supply. And because they were able to avoid competition, it worked! Even though households do not buy barrels of oil, it caused terrible inflation. It drove up the prices of anything that used petroleum or petroleum-based products, it raised the price of gas and, therefore, anything that needed to be transported, and it caused inflation in other energy sources as users shifted to those products. Market powerGÇônot money growthGÇôcaused this inflation. The money supply only rose as a result of the fact that firms and consumers took out larger loans and sold assets for cash. The Federal Reserve acted as it should have done in these circumstances, accommodating this increased demand. (Of course having market power does not give carte blanche to raising prices. Even monopolists can only charge so much before consumers stop buying their products. -Another Cause of Inflation: Demand Pull ( I guess a big war like Jita burns or Hulkageddon many be at work here soon? ) -Another Cause of Inflation: Asset Market Boom ( dunno if this is occuring in Eve ?) and finally what we're seeing with the Drone Nerf: Cause of Inflation: Supply Shock (DN: please add other inflations causes I admit t not being an economist & would like to see them )
On a side note Dunno i we'll truely get anywhere close to Hyperinflation but here's a a definition I found today: The International Accounting Standards Board ('IASB') describes hyperinflation as inflation that results in "a cumulative inflation rate over three years approaching 100%, being a compound inflation rate of 26% over a consecutive three year period - and hence any inflation rate that exceeds 26% compounded over a three year period. Inflation is a function of the active money supply (non-banned accounts) and money velocity. Also, inflation is measured across all items not just a certain sub-class of items. Short term trends are inflationary but the long term trend is deflationary. Anyone who thinks they can affect the long term inflationary trading by targeting a single material or a single system is daft. Even short term trends will be muted - the market is just too big.
In a real world market your correct, in eve you are not, in the real world for instance, oil is controlled by basically every nation on the planet, just some with more some with less, this makes it impossible for massive market manipulation on a world wide scale that is stable, that and because if the middle east raises oil up massively we would either bomb them or invent new technology that uses other materials for energy. In EVE it doesn't work like that most TECH is concentrated in a single area, meaning if that whole area on the map forms a cartel it will create legitimate inflation on all T2 items, that's because all T2 items are dependent on TECH so when TECH goes up all t2 goes up. In the real world this would lead to innovation of new technologies that don't require TECH, in EVE that isn't an option, so we are forced to either A. bomb the north of the map. or B. put up with the prices increases. Not that I care since I'm making a killing on this market. |
Korah Arnelle
University of Caille Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.04.28 18:42:00 -
[95] - Quote
Alexandra Alt wrote:What part hasn't ppl understood that all this inflation and most of goonswarm action have the sole purpose to inflate everything in eve so that ppl swimming in loads of isk are forced to spend it and remove billions from the game?
I don't doubt this is somewhat conluded with CCP itself (or certain CCP members), in a few months when plenty of ISK leaves the game things will get back to normal...
And here's the fatal flaw in the theory there: what about newbies fresh at day one? No PLEX, no friends, just their newbie ship and a handful of missions. Basically, what it'll lead to is there being haves versus havenots. And that means fewer reasons for newbies to stick around even if they have pals in game. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
899
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Posted - 2012.04.29 21:20:00 -
[96] - Quote
Korah Arnelle wrote: And here's the fatal flaw in the theory there: what about newbies fresh at day one? No PLEX, no friends, just their newbie ship and a handful of missions. Basically, what it'll lead to is there being haves versus havenots. And that means fewer reasons for newbies to stick around even if they have pals in game.
(shrugs) That's been true for 5+ years now. Why would it suddenly become different?
If anything, it continues to get easier and easier for a new player to make their first billion ISK. Back when I started:
- Hi-sec ores were worth about 60-80 ISK/m3, now they're worth 150-220 ISK/m3 - The SoE epic arc didn't exist (pays out about 15M or so) - Incursions didn't exist (although that's about a 2-3 month training plan) - Planetary Interaction didn't exist (5-8 days gets you up and running making 2-3M/day with 5 planets in hi-sec) - More ISK sloshing around makes station trading easier as buyers aren't as price-sensitive - The career mission arcs didn't exist in the new player systems - T2 modules and ships were about 3x-5x more expensive then they are today (due to invention driving costs down)
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Henry Haphorn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
325
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Posted - 2012.04.29 22:14:00 -
[97] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Hayaishi wrote:What difference does Technetium make to Tech 3s? None, that's his whole point: that the tech cartel will drive prices up to the point where T3 ships will become the less expensive choice so everyone will fly those instead of T2.
Another thing to consider is that tech 3 production is governed by those operating and controlling wormholes where sleeper technology is derived from for such ships. Welcome to Eve Online. Don't expect people to be nice to you. |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
272
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Posted - 2012.04.30 00:49:00 -
[98] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:We shall price our T2 ships in accordance.
okaaaaaaay? Most nullsec alliances fly T1 ships. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
214
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Posted - 2012.04.30 00:50:00 -
[99] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:We shall price our T2 ships in accordance. okaaaaaaay? Most nullsec alliances fly T1 ships. Not really? Granted maelstroms, abaddons and drakes are pretty dominant shiptypes but all of those fleets have various T2 ships in support roles. |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
272
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Posted - 2012.04.30 01:11:00 -
[100] - Quote
corestwo wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:We shall price our T2 ships in accordance. okaaaaaaay? Most nullsec alliances fly T1 ships. Not really? Granted maelstroms, abaddons and drakes are pretty dominant shiptypes but all of those fleets have various T2 ships in support roles.
But not enough to cause a huge impact from these morons threatening to raise T2 prices. Don't worry about posting with your main! -áPost with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." |
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2980
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Posted - 2012.04.30 02:49:00 -
[101] - Quote
Lapine Davion wrote:corestwo wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:We shall price our T2 ships in accordance. okaaaaaaay? Most nullsec alliances fly T1 ships. Not really? Granted maelstroms, abaddons and drakes are pretty dominant shiptypes but all of those fleets have various T2 ships in support roles. But not enough to cause a huge impact from these morons threatening to raise T2 prices. Also "well you robbed us of trillions of isk I shall cost you Millions" ain't a bad trade even if they pull it off |
clixor
Celluloid Gurus
9
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Posted - 2012.04.30 10:56:00 -
[102] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:corestwo wrote:Lapine Davion wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:We shall price our T2 ships in accordance. okaaaaaaay? Most nullsec alliances fly T1 ships. Not really? Granted maelstroms, abaddons and drakes are pretty dominant shiptypes but all of those fleets have various T2 ships in support roles. But not enough to cause a huge impact from these morons threatening to raise T2 prices. Also "well you robbed us of trillions of isk I shall cost you Millions" ain't a bad trade even if they pull it off
Unlike T1 manufacturers, players involved in T2 are very well aware of their cost structure. If costs rise, this will be directly visible in street price. No tin-foil hats required. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
171
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Posted - 2012.05.02 08:33:00 -
[103] - Quote
Henry Haphorn wrote:Tippia wrote:Hayaishi wrote:What difference does Technetium make to Tech 3s? None, that's his whole point: that the tech cartel will drive prices up to the point where T3 ships will become the less expensive choice so everyone will fly those instead of T2. Another thing to consider is that tech 3 production is governed by those operating and controlling wormholes where sleeper technology is derived from for such ships.
It's my understanding that unlike with moon goo nano ribbons are spread out C1-C6 sleeper site. I thought I spread cually C6 sites may have a slightly greater % of blue loot then ribbons dropping? Please correct me if I'm wrong here? If so the C6 dug in corps don't have a real strangle hold which null does with Technetium. Unintentional bug Working as IntendedGäó |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
171
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Posted - 2012.05.02 08:35:00 -
[104] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:I must confess, each and every one of our tech moons was taken by dishonorably afk cloaking. lol That made me spit up some beer into my nose after I read it Unintentional bug Working as IntendedGäó |
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