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Reminder: The Demand for Additional Banks

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Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.20 09:34:00 - [1] Guys, I'm pointing out that EBANK is set to shut-off creating new interest-bearing accounts once it hits 2 Trillion in account value (it's 86 Billion away from that target as of now). This will shift new money towards DBANK. DBANK may choose to follow a similar path once demand exceeds their comfort-zone for Bank liabilities. I'm pointing this out (again) to remind people there is room for additional Banks in EVE, and that they need not offer insane amounts of interest. As always, I'm available for advice on any new projects. Just ask around the "EBANK" channel in-game and someone will get a hold of me. EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Taikun Gallente 20th Legion Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.02.20 09:59:00 - [2] Originally by: Hexxx I'm available for advice on any new projects. Just ask around the "EBANK" channel in-game and someone will get a hold of me. Because you don't post in here anymore. giggle Taikun A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.20 10:06:00 - [3] Originally by: Taikun Originally by: Hexxx I'm available for advice on any new projects. Just ask around the "EBANK" channel in-game and someone will get a hold of me. Because you don't post in here anymore. giggle Taikun You missed my coming out of retirement thread, probably because you don't post in here anymore. chuckle Hexxx EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Damien Jax Industrial Research College Ltd	Posted - 2009.02.20 11:53:00 - [4] I was interested in doing it, but I don't have the time commitment and I'm working on another project currently. If I had the time and resources, I'd give it a shot.
Dan Ryan	Posted - 2009.02.20 12:31:00 - [5] Originally by: Hexxx Guys, I'm pointing out that EBANK is set to shut-off creating new interest-bearing accounts once it hits 2 Trillion in account value (it's 86 Billion away from that target as of now). This will shift new money towards DBANK. DBANK may choose to follow a similar path once demand exceeds their comfort-zone for Bank liabilities. I'm pointing this out (again) to remind people there is room for additional Banks in EVE, and that they need not offer insane amounts of interest. As always, I'm available for advice on any new projects. Just ask around the "EBANK" channel in-game and someone will get a hold of me. I am working on something (just the software), i think some people might remeber my thread a while back. Just RL keeps getting in the way of my project, but i havent got stuck yet! (Just out of interest, is EBANK working on inter-banking system?)
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.20 12:35:00 - [6] Originally by: Dan Ryan Originally by: Hexxx Guys, I'm pointing out that EBANK is set to shut-off creating new interest-bearing accounts once it hits 2 Trillion in account value (it's 86 Billion away from that target as of now). This will shift new money towards DBANK. DBANK may choose to follow a similar path once demand exceeds their comfort-zone for Bank liabilities. I'm pointing this out (again) to remind people there is room for additional Banks in EVE, and that they need not offer insane amounts of interest. As always, I'm available for advice on any new projects. Just ask around the "EBANK" channel in-game and someone will get a hold of me. I am working on something (just the software), i think some people might remeber my thread a while back. Just RL keeps getting in the way of my project, but i havent got stuck yet! (Just out of interest, is EBANK working on inter-banking system?) Mr. H has been wanting to do something called "merchant services", basically a paypal for EVE. I could see it somehow being used as a framework for money moving between Banks.... I'd personally love to see a unified Banking infrastructure....but I don't know for sure what it would look like or how it would work. Do you have anything specifically you were thinking of? EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.20 12:37:00 - [7] I must admit I have been considering starting a bank of some sort in the future.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.20 12:39:00 - [8] Originally by: Ricdic I must admit I have been considering starting a bank of some sort in the future. Kind of like a mini-EIB done right? EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Joss Sparq Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.02.20 12:52:00 - [9] Do you mean not absconding with our internet spaceship money or absconding with said money but without looking like the kid from the "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!" video? Just so we're clear, Hexxx
Dan Ryan	Posted - 2009.02.20 12:54:00 - [10] Edited by: Dan Ryan on 20/02/2009 12:54:42 Originally by: Hexxx Mr. H has been wanting to do something called "merchant services", basically a paypal for EVE. I could see it somehow being used as a framework for money moving between Banks.... I'd personally love to see a unified Banking infrastructure....but I don't know for sure what it would look like or how it would work. Do you have anything specifically you were thinking of? Basicly we would just need a central bank, that acts as a clearing house for 'inter-bank' transcations and payment. Kinda like what the reseve bank does in Australia, banks move the 'net' amount of $ movement thru the RBA. Been thinking about how to do so technically, wouldnt be too hard. Just always needs a matching transcation pairs, (and a trusted central bank, maybe with a board formed from all the perticipating banks) Vendor / Sales transcation 1) Merchant Request Payment from Merchant Bank 2) Merchant Bank Request Confirmation from Client Bank (thru the central bank) 3) Client comfirms payment request by logging into his client bank interface. 4) transcation complete (isk does not change hand between Merchant bank and Client bank, untill end of the day where the NET amount is worked out between banks) Fund transfer 1) Client submit transfer 2) Money transferred
Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2009.02.20 19:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Hexxx DBANK may choose to follow a similar path once demand exceeds their comfort-zone for Bank liabilities. I can't promise that our Directors won't make that decision at some point in time. I can only point out that we have never made any promise of eternally fixed interest rates, which makes it much more likely that as we grow to the size that our money guys think is a proper and comfortable size for us to have, we'll just lower interest rates in the accounts and on new CDs, and slow down the influx of funds that way. Also, I like to think - although I may be incorrect in this since I'm not one of the money guys - that the fact that we offer many opportunities, for our account holders to tie down their ISK, via limited accounts and CDs, makes it a bit easier for us to manage the whole thing, compared to if all the ISK were in "open" accounts and available for short-term withdrawal. Finally, we have our deposit cap, that we can adjust to help manage ISK inflow. Last year, personal accounts had a monthly deposit cap of 500 million ISK, and corporate accounts a cap of 1000 million; this year, both kinds of accounts have a deposit cap of 1000 million ISK per month, meaning that if people want to shift ISK into their accounts, they're going to have to do so in a slow and orderly fashion - or else talk to Manalapan and see if a "special arrangement" of some kind can be made; one can, after all, never know. Anyway, we welcome competition. Competition is healthy for everyone. -- Salpad
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.02.20 20:03:00 - [12] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 20/02/2009 20:05:46 Originally by: Hexxx Originally by: Ricdic I must admit I have been considering starting a bank of some sort in the future. Kind of like a mini-EIB done right? It's bad enough that Ricdic's Winter Palace (DBANK) has been amassing capital for some time now without the smallest consideration for transparency, auditing or redundant security policies. But we'll take a better look at DBANK during the incoming October revolution. The primary role of a bank in this game should be to act as a buffer and intermediate otherwise untimely money transfers between investors and project managers. Of course, such a service does not come cheap either. With that in mind, I would like to propose the creation of an open end fund - in essence a shared isk pool between two or more IPOs, maintained by the project managers themselves and aiming at gradually lowering capital acquisition costs. Such an approach must implement additional security (in the form of providing some sort of a possibility to recover the funds in the case of sudden disappearances) and has the benefit of increased flexibility, reliability, scalability, better time responses and at least in theory could create building blocks for developing participatory organization. It would be entirely possible to adapt the above for one man shows (exactly where my IPO is heading to right now) but it would forfeit some of the benefits. Black Sun Empire
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.02.20 20:13:00 - [13] Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 20/02/2009 20:05:46 Originally by: Hexxx Originally by: Ricdic I must admit I have been considering starting a bank of some sort in the future. Kind of like a mini-EIB done right? It's bad enough that Ricdic's Winter Palace (DBANK) has been amassing capital for some time now without the smallest consideration for transparency, auditing or redundant security policies. But we'll take a better look at DBANK during the incoming October revolution. The primary role of a bank in this game should be to act as a buffer and intermediate otherwise untimely money transfers between investors and project managers. Of course, such a service does not come cheap either. With that in mind, I would like to propose the creation of an open end fund - in essence a shared isk pool between two or more IPOs, maintained by the project managers themselves and aiming at gradually lowering capital acquisition costs. Such an approach must implement additional security (in the form of providing some sort of a possibility to recover the funds in the case of sudden disappearances) and has the benefit of increased flexibility, reliability, scalability, better time responses and at least in theory could create building blocks for developing participatory organization. It would be entirely possible to adapt the above for one man shows (exactly where my IPO is heading to right now) but it would forfeit some of the benefits. What you essentially described is a trust company for the banks and public offerings within game. Ebank is already fulfilling this role to some degree, and many others fufill it on a much smaller. For example Kazou operates as a trust partner to Atima, ensuring that should one vanish the investors are set to retain at least a portion of the investment. There is also the possibility of setting up a financial insurance group, where by people taking loans accept small up front fees. The bank then pays these fees into a central pool from which they can then make claims in the case of defaults. This is just one operative of a financial insurance group in EVE. A larger role that I would like to see is a true Escrow Service appear. Which is amusing since such an entity could likely perform all of the above since the demand scale for such services isn't astronomical or anything.
Stardust CEO Stardust Manufacturing	Posted - 2009.02.20 20:47:00 - [14] I've had an idea rolling around in my head since these 'we need a third bank' threads started popping up, and I was left wondering what they could do differently from EBANK and DBANK. What if there were a bank that paid interest based on the amount of total deposits, on some kind of sliding scale? For example: .01 - 3b isk: 1.75% weekly 3.01b - 5b: 1.5% weekly 5.01b - 10b: 1.25% weekly 10.01b - 20b: 1% weekly 20.1b - 50b: .8% weekly 50b-75b: .6% weekly 75.01b - 100b: .4% weekly 100b+: .3% weekly This scale could be adjusted to the bank's preference, and would serve to keep the bank's total deposits manageable, allowing members to receive a more generous payout while the bank is small.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.20 20:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Stardust CEO I've had an idea rolling around in my head since these 'we need a third bank' threads started popping up, and I was left wondering what they could do differently from EBANK and DBANK. What if there were a bank that paid interest based on the amount of total deposits, on some kind of sliding scale? For example: .01 - 3b isk: 1.75% weekly 3.01b - 5b: 1.5% weekly 5.01b - 10b: 1.25% weekly 10.01b - 20b: 1% weekly 20.1b - 50b: .8% weekly 50b-75b: .6% weekly 75.01b - 100b: .4% weekly 100b+: .3% weekly This scale could be adjusted to the bank's preference, and would serve to keep the bank's total deposits manageable, allowing members to receive a more generous payout while the bank is small. There are alot of options in terms of how you could do interest, the big thing is: 1) It doesn't need to be that high and SHOULDN'T be that high. Banks (generally) should not be competing with IPO's. 2) It doesn't need to be radically different from what's out there right now. EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Stardust CEO Stardust Manufacturing	Posted - 2009.02.20 21:14:00 - [16] How many people is considered optimal? I would think >1, <6, but really I have no idea.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.02.20 21:15:00 - [17] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Ebank is already fulfilling this role to some degree, and many others fulfill it on a much smaller. What I proposed bypasses banks entirely. Collective reputation... Black Sun Empire
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.02.20 21:21:00 - [18] Originally by: YouGotRipped Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Ebank is already fulfilling this role to some degree, and many others fulfill it on a much smaller. What I proposed bypasses banks entirely. Collective reputation... I don't disagree, was just saying that in some respect some of these roles would be competitive against other entities in the second market.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.02.20 22:09:00 - [19] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 20/02/2009 22:09:40 Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: YouGotRipped Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Ebank is already fulfilling this role to some degree, and many others fulfill it on a much smaller. What I proposed bypasses banks entirely. Collective reputation... I don't disagree, was just saying that in some respect some of these roles would be competitive against other entities in the second market. Yes, I can see that already. But I won't be leaving things in their present state (proposition) either Black Sun Empire
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.02.20 22:31:00 - [20] Just think, if scamming in Eve was illegal we wouldn't have to have trust issues. The Cosmoray Bank would appear right next to the Riethe, Xabier and Evn7289 banks. All of these entities couldn't swindle your cash. What a boring game. Scammers are there to keep us on our toes, and develop systems to ensure security. Evolution! Maybe more banks COULD get off the ground, would I invest in them? Probably not. I do think it is interesting that the 2nd largest IPO (ahem, I mean bank) in terms of total capital under management also pays the highest dividends (choke, I mean interest). How long will that be sustainable (cough, cough!)
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.20 22:51:00 - [21] Originally by: cosmoray I do think it is interesting that the 2nd largest IPO (ahem, I mean bank) in terms of total capital under management also pays the highest dividends I am fairly sure DBANK has been restructured to have far lower interest repayments. DBANK initially had higher interest rates to encourage customers as they were competing with EBANK. They are actually on a much closer level to EBANK at this point so can afford to restructure for longetivity and quality of service rather than customer acquisition. I think they have a ways to go, specifically in areas of customer service and I think their next step should be focus on this (more tellers, better risk mitigation etc) rather than bringing out more features. (exchange they have in production etc) Whilst this might sound like me trying to stop them releasing one before EBANK its not actually like that. I think the foundations should be strengthened before adding more load to the operation.
Xeoniya	Posted - 2009.02.20 23:10:00 - [22] Edited by: Xeoniya on 20/02/2009 23:11:49 Edited by: Xeoniya on 20/02/2009 23:10:01 Is there a market for "secure" low interest loans to established IPO's much like the federal reserve bank does for banks? I could see DBANK, EBank, RESX, and Eve Mutual Fund, Big Merchant Bank of EVE, Calgorac among others taking advantage of these loans for expansion projects and/or depositing money in them for smaller banks once properly vetted/audited and established. This agency could either be established brand new or better yet spun off of EBANK with several of the more senior MD board members overseeing it. Primarily it would be a streamlined loan and deposit screen only accessible by those approved by the board. Eventually smaller newer banks could even be required/allowed to deposit some share of their isk in order to get improved trust as a sort of a FDIC equivilent. For example the new bank could state 15% of Deposits are held/insured by the governing body.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.02.20 23:27:00 - [23] I don't know if there's a need for a third bank, especially when the second bank isn't very secure in terms of trust and handling of its liabilities. Blueprint Store
ksc1226	Posted - 2009.02.21 00:36:00 - [24] Originally by: Brock Nelson I don't know if there's a need for a third bank, especially when the second bank isn't very secure in terms of trust and handling of its liabilities. Maybe that's exactly the reason why there should be a third bank, or even more. Competition will breed a better product.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.21 00:41:00 - [25] Originally by: cosmoray Just think, if scamming in Eve was illegal we wouldn't have to have trust issues. The Cosmoray Bank would appear right next to the Riethe, Xabier and Evn7289 banks. All of these entities couldn't swindle your cash. What a boring game. Scammers are there to keep us on our toes, and develop systems to ensure security. Evolution! Maybe more banks COULD get off the ground, would I invest in them? Probably not. I do think it is interesting that the 2nd largest IPO (ahem, I mean bank) in terms of total capital under management also pays the highest dividends (choke, I mean interest). How long will that be sustainable (cough, cough!) DBANK and EBANK are both retail banks that happen to engage in investment bank activities. They are not IPO's. I'm not going to copy and paste the wikipedia entry myself but one of my pet peeves is people mixing up financial entities and financial instruments. There is a big difference. EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.02.21 00:42:00 - [26] Well the third, fourth, 20th bank will still have the same problem as the second (DBank) would have. Blueprint Store
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.02.21 01:00:00 - [27] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 21/02/2009 01:03:08 Originally by: Hexxx Originally by: cosmoray Just think, if scamming in Eve was illegal we wouldn't have to have trust issues. The Cosmoray Bank would appear right next to the Riethe, Xabier and Evn7289 banks. All of these entities couldn't swindle your cash. What a boring game. Scammers are there to keep us on our toes, and develop systems to ensure security. Evolution! Maybe more banks COULD get off the ground, would I invest in them? Probably not. I do think it is interesting that the 2nd largest IPO (ahem, I mean bank) in terms of total capital under management also pays the highest dividends (choke, I mean interest). How long will that be sustainable (cough, cough!) DBANK and EBANK are both retail banks that happen to engage in investment bank activities. They are not IPO's. I'm not going to copy and paste the wikipedia entry myself but one of my pet peeves is people mixing up financial entities and financial instruments. There is a big difference. You know well what he meant. Originally by: Shadarle Hate to burst all your bubbles, but E-Bank was never a "bank". They've always been an IPO. They just have had good marketing. If you didn't realize this then you didn't do the proper reading before making your investment. And if you didn't do the proper reading about them then your outrage here is a bit misplaced. You should really know what you're talking about if you're going to yell and scream about something. As has been proven by at least one person already stating they misunderstood what was going on. Also if memory servers, Ricdic did mention that Ebank was involved in more than just investment activities. I'm not going to copy and paste the entire conversation myself but... Black Sun Empire
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.21 01:02:00 - [28] Originally by: Brock Nelson Well the third, fourth, 20th bank will still have the same problem as the second (DBank) would have. Yes and no. Let's be honest...it'll be hard for a new bank to have the initial reputation that EBANK had when it launched. But the reason EBANK still works isn't because of the names that were involved, it's because we really focused hard on running the Bank well. DBANK has shifted it's focus more heavily inward, and I'm glad. It has a bit more work to do on internal management and building a very strong and effective team of people but it's making good progress and in time I think they'll get it quite well. As usual, I don't endorse DBANK but I do encourage them. I would like them to show people that EBANK is not some exception. Anyone can do this. EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Ms Delerium	Posted - 2009.02.21 02:38:00 - [29] There are 2 problems with Eve Online banks: 1) Trust factor. 99% of eve population will see banks as an almost secure scam. 2) Interest. Why would nobody invest 500m for such low monthly rates, sure they look awesome compared to real life ones, but so is Eve inflation vs RL one. Anyone could earn about the same trading stuff for 1-3 days than the bank gives you for 1month taking your money.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.21 02:49:00 - [30] Originally by: Ms Delerium There are 2 problems with Eve Online banks: 1) Trust factor. 99% of eve population will see banks as an almost secure scam. 2) Interest. Why would nobody invest 500m for such low monthly rates, sure they look awesome compared to real life ones, but so is Eve inflation vs RL one. Anyone could earn about the same trading stuff for 1-3 days than the bank gives you for 1month taking your money. And yet EBANK has 1.3 Trillion at 1.5% per month and 42 Billion at 0% per month. Fascinating! EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net

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